Author Topic: Argentina's SLV development  (Read 78272 times)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #40 on: 12/06/2013 02:24 PM »
New interviews:

Part 1


Part 2


Interesting tidbits:
VEX is the experiments and will be launched from Pipinas, Punta de Indio. They expect to launch four times.

The Tronador II will have a complex built right next to the Navy's Puerto Belgrano Base.
Note from me: The Navy is ceding the plot, but they'll use some range and safety infrastructure from the launch base. The ideal position that they wanted was 50 km south of Pinamar, but since they have planned an hipergolic propellent plant, the EIS didn't pass. Further north was too populated, and the base was the only place where they could get the EIS approved. It's a former range, if I'm not mistaken.
Everything is being developed from scratch.
All the complex design are preliminary.
Rocket and fuel will be produced on site (apparently)


Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #41 on: 12/09/2013 01:05 PM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).
« Last Edit: 12/09/2013 01:06 PM by baldusi »

Offline lbiderman

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #42 on: 12/19/2013 12:55 PM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).

What's our local expertise on handling kerolox engines? As far as I know, none. Do we know if it's pressure-fed or turbopump-fed?
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #43 on: 12/20/2013 02:02 AM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).

What's our local expertise on handling kerolox engines? As far as I know, none. Do we know if it's pressure-fed or turbopump-fed?
The rumors and system design do point to a 30tnf turbopump-fed gas generator design. All procurement documents on 30tnf engine have always talked about turbopump. And I doubt they'll do anything but gas generator cycle with kerosen. The experience is, basically, null. But many have started with kerolox, since it's the easiest combination to handle and one of the easiest to start (of the non hypergolic). It's the correct choice, in my humble opinion. Big hypergolic were not only ridiculously dangerous, but given the desire of CONAE to clearly stay out of military application technologies, they would create a lot of international problems.
If they pull this out, this is gonna be an extremely interesting project. They had stated that they expected a USD 6M price for a 500kg to a 400km polar orbit. If they achieve that, they'll have a very interesting product. I seriously doubt they can achieve that cost on the first try, though.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #44 on: 12/24/2013 08:41 PM »
CONAE officials have confirmed RP-1 as fuel. It will be produced by YPF. And they did stated that they needed the RP-1 because its used for cooling. So they are confirming regenerative cooling.
On a different note, the SAOCOM-1A was stated to launch in 2015 and the SAOCOM-1B in 2016.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #45 on: 03/03/2014 02:29 AM »
Well, as you probably might know, the launch test of VEx-1 occurred on February 26th.
Apparently the test vehicle rose two meters before fall back into the launch pad and burn.
There is very little information from CONAE. (none).
There is still no public report of the test.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #46 on: 03/06/2014 02:23 AM »
CONAE says the vehicle didn't explode. They say the engine started but the "take off didn't happen". They still don't know why this happened but apparently the rocket is in "good shape" to investigate the causes. There is a rumor that there was a problem with the pneumatic tensioners. CONAE also qualified the test as positive because they tested several subsystems which ones were nominal at the moment of the event.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #47 on: 03/06/2014 02:55 AM »
From what I understood, it did clear the launch platform. But apparently an hydraulic cylinder of the TVC failed. I'd guess that the system did a shutdown, but that's my speculation. CONAE officials did stated that they had recovered most pieces and the root cause was being investigated. But the second and third vehicles are already built and they did validated all the start sequence. The original flight was going to be just 800m downrange. So its not that bad since the failure is, apparently, a low tech mechanical problem and the really complex systemic issues were mostly validated.
Personally, I'm worried that the failure was a low tech mechanical issue. But this is all second hand information.

Online plutogno

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #48 on: 03/07/2014 03:59 PM »
the French magazine Air & Cosmos has published a couple of pictures
http://www.air-cosmos.com/espace/echec-du-demonstrateur-argentin-vex-1a.html

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #49 on: 03/07/2014 05:30 PM »
That image has been circulating through Argentinian forums. No fire is apparent and it's clear that they recovered everything (thou the system is probably not salvageable). Regrettably the picture is very low resolution. But the way it fell down just right to the ramp, and the way the nozzle is to the side with one broken pneumatic cylinder (it had two at 90 degrees of pitch and yaw control), are very consistent with ether a cylinder failure or a cylinder attachment failure.
Overall, I do share CONAE's assessment that the test had a "positive" result. They validated practically all the complex parts, including pressurization, ignition, thrust, etc.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #50 on: 03/08/2014 04:44 AM »
Wow. Unlucky that the vehicle failed, but to not have an explosion? Has that ever happened before?
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Online Kryten

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #51 on: 03/08/2014 09:51 AM »
Wow. Unlucky that the vehicle failed, but to not have an explosion? Has that ever happened before?
MR-1?

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #52 on: 03/08/2014 12:02 PM »
Wow. Unlucky that the vehicle failed, but to not have an explosion? Has that ever happened before?
It was supposed to have an apogee of 300m and fly downrange 800m. It didn't had much propellant. Since it's a pressure fed system, when it fell the tank most probably punctuated and lost pressure. So it must have shut down by itself.
If the TVC cylinder that broke was the yaw, it all closes.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #53 on: 03/09/2014 01:48 AM »
Btw, by the press release they had 200kg of hidracine and 260 km of RFNA. Given the volume, there's got to be a whole lot of space in the tanks. The fulltanks should be about 1,000kg and 1,400 for the VEX.

Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #54 on: 08/15/2014 06:16 PM »
Updated information on CONAE`s site about  Tronador 2:
http://www.conae.gov.ar/index.php/espanol/acceso-al-espacio
Yhe launcher will use  kerolox on 1st stage (retains 90 ton thrust) and MMHydrazine on pressure fed 2nd stage (4 ton thrust)
Also is preparing launch of Vex 1b

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #55 on: 08/15/2014 06:50 PM »
That image has been circulating through Argentinian forums. No fire is apparent and it's clear that they recovered everything (thou the system is probably not salvageable). Regrettably the picture is very low resolution. But the way it fell down just right to the ramp, and the way the nozzle is to the side with one broken pneumatic cylinder (it had two at 90 degrees of pitch and yaw control), are very consistent with ether a cylinder failure or a cylinder attachment failure.
Overall, I do share CONAE's assessment that the test had a "positive" result. They validated practically all the complex parts, including pressurization, ignition, thrust, etc.

Well, it has potentile, but I find it kind of disturbing that the rocket configuration is so much like an ICBM.  Could be they're being influenced by SpaceX, but still...
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Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #56 on: 08/16/2014 09:53 AM »
Last night Vex 1b was succsessfully launched

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #57 on: 08/17/2014 07:25 PM »
Here it is a caption of VEx-1B beeing succesfully launched.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #58 on: 08/17/2014 07:33 PM »
And here it's a video of T-60s countdown
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23troa_facebookjjj_webcam

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #59 on: 08/17/2014 07:43 PM »
It has been said that the vehicle reach 2200m and a velocity of 838km/h. With a thrust of 4000kg-force in its single engine and an initial weight of 2800kg. (Pablo de León)

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