Author Topic: Argentina's SLV development  (Read 81442 times)

Offline Nahavandi

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Argentina's SLV development
« on: 09/01/2011 01:47 AM »
http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/Tronador-LSA/Description/Frame.htm :

Quote
Argentina has a plan for building a small satellite launcher.

The project is being managed by the CONAE (Comision Nacional de Actividades Espaciales), which integrates the work of many scientific institutes and universities in the country.

The plan recalls the Condor ballistic system which was being developed by the Argentine Armed Forces. Argentina was forced to scrap the project in 1993.
Fourteen years after having de-activated the Condor-II missile program, Argentina is again experimenting with rockets.
Argentina’s Space Activities National Commission is in charge of the project which has had significant support from the Kirchner administration.

Specifications :
http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.grupoartax.com.ar%2FCA_TronadorII.html

Wiki article:
http://translate.google.nl/translate?sl=es&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=nl&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fes.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FTronador_II&act=url

b14643.de photo gallery:
http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/Tronador-LSA/Description/Frame.htm






« Last Edit: 01/02/2012 11:07 PM by Nahavandi »

Offline Oberon_Command

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #1 on: 09/01/2011 01:49 AM »
Is it me, or does the launch pad in that launch diagram (last attached image) look a LOT like KSC's LC-39?

Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #2 on: 09/01/2011 10:32 AM »
From Volume 37, Issue 33 of EIR Online, Published Aug. 27, 2010

Argentina To (Finally) Develop Its Own Satellite Launcher

Aug. 19 (EIRNS)—Argentina plans to develop a rocket launcher that will be able to place its domestically built small satellites into low Earth orbit, the head of the Argentine National Commission for Space Activities (CONAE) announced Aug. 15. Conrado Varotto said Argentina could launch satellites for one quarter the cost of buying foreign launch services, and that the technology would all be developed domestically.

According to CONAE, the Tronador II ("thundering") rocket will build on Argentina's current Tronador I project, which uses a liquid-fueled engine, weighs about 60 kg, and can travel on an unguided ballistic trajectory up to 20 km. Tronador II, which will be about 10 times heavier, will use multiple engines, and add navigation, guidance, and control technology, so that the rocket can be deployed to a specific point in space.

Varotto stated that satellites weighing between 250-400 kg could be launched with the new rocket, which he said could be ready for its first flight test in 2013, if the resources are provided. The small satellites would be a "dynamic cluster," he explained, each one designed for a specific mission, to test a particular technical capability. In this way, a failure in one does not jeopardize all of them, and allows for an "immediate response." Using conventional technology, he said, it can take up to six years to design, build, and launch a satellite.

http://www.larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2010/2010_30-39/2010-33/2010-33/ibero.html
« Last Edit: 09/01/2011 10:36 AM by Salo »

Online Salo

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« Last Edit: 09/01/2011 10:50 AM by Salo »

Offline Nahavandi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #4 on: 09/02/2011 11:27 AM »
It will be quite interesting to see how the Tronador II will preform against Brazil's VLS-1 V4 .

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #5 on: 09/03/2011 02:52 AM »
Not even close. We'll be lucky if it flies a 100kg demo to LEO in five years. The Army's Orbit has higher chances.

Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #6 on: 09/03/2011 05:22 AM »
What is Army's Orbit?  ???
« Last Edit: 09/03/2011 07:10 AM by Salo »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #7 on: 09/03/2011 08:01 PM »
What is Army's Orbit?  ???
Argentina has two orbital LV projects. One is the hypergolic project form the civil space agency, CONAE, commonly known as the TRONADOR Project, or more correctly ISCUL (Inyector Satelital de Cargas Utiles y Livianas, or Satellite Injector of Useful and Light Payloads) if you can read Spanish I would recommend this thread. Since it's made by a civil agency, and after the Condor II issues, they are very paranoic not to have anything to do with military applications. They went as far as not accepting anybody who had any experience from the Condor. Which is a shame since it had an immature GNC mostly develop. They have a small budget, and the they spent quite a long time developing a 4tnf thrust pathfinding engine, they had to do with a range that's only good for polar orbits (the only available place for normal orbits didn't pass the environmental impact), but they actually flew the guidance computers on Brazilian sounding rockets. Apparently those problems are behind, but the project is too ambitious for the budget and the political instability and economic realities will make it very difficult to actually launch an orbital flight. They did launched two TRONADOR rockets, but were mostly pathfinders and less than a good sounding rocket.
The second project is from the Ministry of Defense, it has a project to develop a "big" solid rocket engine family. The original project was called GRADICOM. Once the single stage GRADICOM was successfully demonstrated, the two stages GRADICOM II was developed. You can read about it in my post. But basically it was a 1ton rocket with dual HTPB solid cores, with no thrust vectoring nor active surfaces, but it demonstrated successfully staging, and telemetry. The next version will be called Orbit, and will have active control. With any luck, it will launch next year. According to my calculations, if they use four cores as a first stage, they will reach orbital heights (400km), I don't think they will reach orbital speeds, but will probably demonstrate their GNC. They do have the experience from the Condor, and they want to use the single engine version for an artillery piece upto 400km, and with a multiple stage version (I calculate at least four) that could put small satellites on LEO. If you can read Spanish you can find more in this thread.

Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #8 on: 09/04/2011 07:21 AM »
Muchas gracias! :)
« Last Edit: 09/04/2011 07:58 AM by Salo »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #9 on: 09/14/2011 07:19 PM »
Regarding the Orbit, the current schedule is to be publicly announced on October (election month), and a possible launch in November. The Orbit 2 is in the executive project stage. All this according to Grupo Leiva (I believe their site is http://rhleiva.com.ar/), the engine manufacturers. The Gradicom and Orbit were shown in EPSAM 2011, but, regrettably, I couldn't attend.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #10 on: 09/28/2011 05:58 PM »
Orbit
This is the manufacturer of the engines. This is the best picture I could find around. So apparently they will have a single first stage (I expected a four as first stage and one of the same as second). What I can't see is any nozzle, nor active surfaces. So it seems more like a tactical missile than anything else. But the picture is very bad, I'll see what can I get. I've been told that the width at the base is 560mm. The GRADICOM II was 320mm.

Tronador II
Acording to this article. The rocket will be assembled in the Punta India Base, by the National University of La Plata, by the middle of 2012. The idea is to launch by 2013 from the Belgrano Naval Base (since they have the necessary infrastructure). They've leased a hangar from the Ministry of Defense, to do the initial system testings. they are working on the structural parts, and will receive, test, accept and integrate the engines and electronics from the other developers.
The rocket is expected to have a height of 34m and put a 200kg payload in a circular 600km polar orbit.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2011 07:08 PM by baldusi »

Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #11 on: 10/09/2011 06:33 PM »

Online Chris Bergin

Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #12 on: 11/16/2011 11:37 AM »
This thread is specific to, and only for, Tronador II.

It shouldn't require an explanation.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #13 on: 11/17/2011 05:50 PM »
First picture of the Tronador T4000 pathfinder rocket.
According the the Instituto Universitario Aeronáutico's newsletter, in the last page they explain their participation in the project. The T4000 engine is a 4000kgf rocket engine.

To recap:
Tronador 1
Launch Site: Puerto Belgrano Navy Base
Date:
Length: 3.4m
Weight: 60kg
Propellant: Anilin/Nitric Acid
Thrust: 500kgf x 10 sec
Liquid propulsion: . Successful.
Objective: testing of the telemetry and ground support team.

Tronador 1bis
Launch Site: Puerto Belgrano Navy Base
Date:
Propellant: Anilin/Nitric Acid
Thrust: 1500kgf x 10 sec
Result: 13km apogee and 21km downrange according to the GNC.

VS-30
Launch Site: Barreira do Inferno Launch Center.
Date: 2010-12-16
Objective: Flight validation of the GNC (gyroscope, accelerometer, positioning and a cold-gas attitude system that utilizes a solar sensor).
Result: 140km of apoggee. Payload made a parachute reentry and was successfully recovered from the sea.

T4000
Launch Site: Puerto Belgrano Navy Base?
Date: ?
Propellant: Hypergolic
Thrust: 4000kgf x ?? sec
Objective: Test GNC and validate engine technology?

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #14 on: 11/22/2011 09:50 PM »
Now I'm getting lost! After the Orbit project (a 560mm wide solid engine), now they are talking about the suborbital FAS 1500, now specifically from the Argentinian Air Force (FAA).

FAS 1500:
Dry weight: 2050kg
Payload: 200kg
Apogee: 350km
Engines: 4 first stage + 1 second stage
Stages: 2
Thrust First Stage: 18.000kgf
Thrust Second Stage: 4.500kgf
Firing time: 15seconds (each stage)
Maximum speed: Mach 10
Other systems:
- Redundant Telemetry system
- System for remote destruction of satellite launcher (Flight Termination System?)
- Onboard Sensor for measure and registry of flight parameters.
- Payload separation and recovering system.

At the 0:16
of this video
At 0:33
of this one
and 0:00
of this one

you can see a model. Ironically, they've named it "Fenix" or Phoenix in Spanish. May be some reference tho the Condor II program? In any case they seemed to be doing a very interesting approach. From rumors, it seems that this is a low risk approach to a 4+1 engines two stages solid LV. At the same time, they are working on the bigger Orbit. If both projects are successful, then they will combine them in a 4+1 LV, but with the 560mm engines of the Orbit.

At the same time, they are talking about
The Applied Research Center of IUA is apparently working on "plasma" and "hybrid" engines for nano and micro satellites. I guess with "plasma" they mean ion thrusters for station keeping, and "hybrid" are deorbiting engines.
BTW, could a mod change the Thread's title to "Argentina's Launch Vehicle development" or something like that?
« Last Edit: 11/29/2011 05:26 PM by baldusi »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #15 on: 11/22/2011 10:01 PM »
Let me add another picture of the FAS 1500 and a note of the Tronador II.

Edit: New picture from behind of the FAS 1500 "Fenix" model. And new information:

Both Gradicom/Orbit and FAS 1500 are HTPB solid rocket. But, apparently, the FAS 1500 uses 280mm engines taken from the Sonda I sounding rocket and the fuselage from the Castor sounding rocket.
« Last Edit: 11/23/2011 06:43 PM by baldusi »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #16 on: 12/06/2011 01:13 PM »
More news about the T4000! Pictures taken 25th of Nov 2011. They are stating that it will fly by December this year.
I love that they do have a sense of humor.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #17 on: 12/07/2011 02:03 PM »
Rumors on the forums are that yesterday they tried to launch the T4000, and they couldn't ignite it. They also told me that it lacks a turbopump, so it's probably pressure fed. At the same time, the picture appears to show an ablative nozzle.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #18 on: 12/14/2011 12:01 PM »
Ok, this was worse than I imagined. Apparently, the T4000 didn't had a purge. So after the launch failure, they had to "safe it" with a MAG. Yes, they shoot the tanks with a MAG from an helicopter! Apparently they shoot 50 shots, 15 were on target. This way they emptied the tanks.
I don't know what to say. Please someone tell me this is SOP. I always thought you could purge an hypergolic rocket. Or is there any particular problem of doing such a thing?

Online Skyrocket

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #19 on: 12/14/2011 04:20 PM »
...
So after the launch failure, they had to "safe it" with a MAG. Yes, they shoot the tanks with a MAG from an helicopter! ...

This reminds me, that one of the US Viking sounding rockets in the 1950ies failed to lift of and had also been shot to relief the tank pressure and to prevent the vehicle from bursting. The Viking was saved by being shot and was later patched and conducted an successful flight.

Offline Nahavandi

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Re: Argentina's Tronador II
« Reply #20 on: 01/02/2012 11:05 PM »
BTW, could a mod change the Thread's title to "Argentina's Launch Vehicle development" or something like that?

I'll change it right now .

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #21 on: 05/14/2012 03:50 PM »
Not exactly about the LV, but the comm sats that we are launching next year have their coverage maps online:
http://www.arsat.com.ar/satelites.html

Offline Nahavandi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #22 on: 05/14/2012 05:28 PM »
Not exactly about the LV, but the comm sats that we are launching next year have their coverage maps online:
http://www.arsat.com.ar/satelites.html

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #23 on: 07/06/2012 02:09 PM »
This is a Presentation of August 23th, 2011 by CONAE. There's some info about the SAC-D, some info about the CONAE's Falda del Carmen testing lab (shakers, vacuum chamber, anechoic chamber, etc.) for small sats. Then there's some information about the SAOCOM, with weight, measures, and a very interesting organizational chart. The B&W image is made by the SARAT, an aircraft borne SAR for development purposes of the SAOCOM subsystems.
And last, there's the latest concept of the Tronador II. It's a lot more logical from what I see:

LEO orbital launcher
Polar Orbits at altitude 600km
Maximum payload: 250kg (it's not clear if it it that to 600km or the maximum of the LV).
Built in Argentina
Launched in Argentina

Total Length: 27m
Total Weight: 60 tonnes
Dry Weight: 8 tonnes
First Stage: Diameter 2.5m, Thrust 90tonnes force.
Second Stage: Diameter 2.5m, Thrust 30tonnes force.
Third Stage: Diameter 1.5m, Thrust 4tonnes force.

Offline osiossim

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #24 on: 07/09/2012 12:12 PM »
Dear baldusi,

I always wonder about the rationale behind Argentina's launch vehicle development program.

Can you share some ideas about it?

Offline spaceStalker

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #25 on: 07/09/2012 02:03 PM »
Prestige + ICBM's, the usual..

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #26 on: 07/09/2012 02:28 PM »
We had an ICBM (Condor II), and atomic technology, we simply decided not to pursue. In fact, many US nuclear war heads have Argentinian material. I won't say, though, that the fact that Brazil is doing a SLV isn't part of the motivation, though.
The truth is the we have developed a relatively advanced satellite capabilities upto 3.5 tonnes. But the national aerospace agency, CONAE, is betting on a segmented (or fractional) satellite architecture, like the DARPA F5 architecture. Thus they need really small launchers for cheap. They had an objective of 6M per launch for a 250kg payload to a 600km SSO. I don't really think they can pull it off, I think everybody who tried it has failed (see Pegasus, SpaceX, etc.). And it's probably that if anybody achieves those prices will be with an evolution of XCOR, Masten or Armadillo, rather than the equivalent of Scud technology. They do appear to have taken a page from SpaceX. As they apparently will use the same engine for first and second stage.
And they have some experience with hypergolic propellents from the satellite thrusters and the T4000 project will end up making the third stage engine. My guess is that they are also developing an indigenous kick engine for satellites. Basically, you can't share much technology from a modern LV with your satellite industry, but you can with hypergolics.

Online kevin-rf

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #27 on: 07/09/2012 03:45 PM »
In fact, many US nuclear war heads have Argentinian material.

Source?
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Offline Downix

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #28 on: 07/09/2012 04:25 PM »
In fact, many US nuclear war heads have Argentinian material.

Source?
Argentina was a prime source of Uranium for US warheads for a long period, currently supplied through companies such as Blue Sky and Calypso.
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #29 on: 09/11/2012 07:19 PM »
According to this article:
The failed T4000 was a test of the TVS system. It failed to ignite due to a valve. The planned impulse time was just 10 seconds.
The current plan has six stages, called VEX. Only four are talked about and I'll correct some mistakes that I'm assuming they are makings.

VEX 1: One stage. Apparently it will weight 1.8tonnes and have a 4tnf engine (the articles states it the other way around, which doesn't makes any sense). Apparently is a 30 seconds mission with an optional additional 30 seconds. Budgeted for 2013/14.
VEX 2: First Stage will use 3 x 4tnf engines. Second Stage will use a 4tnf engine. Budgeted for 2014/15/16.
VEX 3: One 30tnf engine. Budgeted from 2015 onwards.
VEX 4: One 30tnf engine.
VEX 5: First Stage 3 x 30tnf and Second Stage 1 x 30tnf + RSC (new development). Apparently it will stage at 80km.

I've mixed the information on the article with the information from the Budget Office. Just download the Excel, items 57125 (VEX I), 57126 (VEX II) and 57630 (VEX III).

Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #30 on: 10/10/2013 02:42 PM »
Argentina's CONAE might  test Tronador/VEX 1 October 12-17 at 35-31.26S 057-11.3W

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #31 on: 10/11/2013 01:56 PM »
Argentina's CONAE might  test Tronador/VEX 1 October 12-17 at 35-31.26S 057-11.3W
Source? El diario de Punta de Indio? Ojo que ese no es el lugar de lanzamiento y me hace pensar que es un ensayo sin lanzamiento.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #32 on: 11/10/2013 12:32 AM »
Apparently CONAE did a press day in Las Pipinas, Punta de Indio, Buenos Aires Province with the VEX-1, the first technological demonstrator for the Tronador II project. Apparently it's, basically, the upper stage, with a flight GNC, and the mission objective is to demonstrate the avionics (GNC). They are planning a total of 6 demonstrator missions. The plan is to launch on 2015 Sept NET for the orbital capable Tronador II Tecnológico (this might imply a technology demonstrator). Budget is 2B Pesos (287M at today exchange rate) in the next three years.

VEX 1
Length: 14.5m
Weight: >3tonnes
Launch: next few weeks.

The article (Spanish)
(Spanish)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #33 on: 11/10/2013 12:35 AM »
Some of the screencaps of the video on the InfoBAE article:

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #34 on: 11/10/2013 12:36 AM »
And some more.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #35 on: 11/12/2013 04:01 AM »
It's incredible to think that with this launch we are waiting to see a "failure" to find what's wrong. According to Varotto the chances of succes are 10%. Of course it's a test, and there is not such thing as a failure. 8)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #36 on: 11/15/2013 02:45 PM »
It's incredible to think that with this launch we are waiting to see a "failure" to find what's wrong. According to Varotto the chances of succes are 10%. Of course it's a test, and there is not such thing as a failure. 8)
Varotto knows about managing expectations. Look at the failure of the T4000. It was a very shameful failure. And look at any other on-off project. Aborts and failure are the norm. That's the route CONAE has chose. Which given the budget and experience I think is a wise one. They lack the infrastructure, experience and budget to do a system egineering heavy approach like current NASA/DoD. So small and evolving is the most reasonable way to go. Which, incidentally, is how all other space powers did it originally.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #37 on: 11/15/2013 09:38 PM »
Yes, you are right! Varotto is being very carefull about this project. He is aware that any little thing could shut down the project (by internal or external forces). I'm not an expert in the subject but I notice that the rocket engine nozzle is pretty weir, isn´t it? Not the cup form that I usually saw, especially being this the second stage which should work at low pression.  This is a recent photo of VEx-1 at launch pad (not mine). Hablamos en inglés siendo los dos argentinos pero supongo que hay que hacerlo para dejar el tema abierto a los demás. Saludos. ;)

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #38 on: 11/24/2013 02:11 PM »
From http://www.hidro.gov.ar/Nautica/Radioav/radioCRP.asp:

Quote
** RIO de la PLATA 1930 23/11/13 **
----------------------------------------
PROVINCIA DE BUENOS AIRES
RIO DE LA PLATA MEDIO Y EXTERIOR
CARTA H-116

PROHIBIDA NAVEGACION PESQUERA Y DEPORTIVA POR LANZAMIENTO SATELITE TRONADOR II,
DIA 29 DE NOV POR LA MAÑANA, EN EL ÁREA DETERMINADA POR:
PSN 35-31.26S 057-11.3W Y RADIO DE 7 KM.

Short version: forbidden navegation on Nov 29 in the described zone due to the launch of the VEX.

The referenced chart (Carta H-116) is the Exterior Rio de la Plata and can be downloaded from here.
« Last Edit: 11/24/2013 02:29 PM by baldusi »

Offline lbiderman

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #39 on: 11/29/2013 11:23 PM »
From http://www.hidro.gov.ar/Nautica/Radioav/radioCRP.asp:

Quote
** RIO de la PLATA 1930 23/11/13 **
----------------------------------------
PROVINCIA DE BUENOS AIRES
RIO DE LA PLATA MEDIO Y EXTERIOR
CARTA H-116

PROHIBIDA NAVEGACION PESQUERA Y DEPORTIVA POR LANZAMIENTO SATELITE TRONADOR II,
DIA 29 DE NOV POR LA MAÑANA, EN EL ÁREA DETERMINADA POR:
PSN 35-31.26S 057-11.3W Y RADIO DE 7 KM.

Short version: forbidden navegation on Nov 29 in the described zone due to the launch of the VEX.

The referenced chart (Carta H-116) is the Exterior Rio de la Plata and can be downloaded from here.

No news yet. I have a "contact" inside CONAE, I'll ask her if they where able to pull the launch off.
"If I wanted to lead a bunch of robots that could only follow orders, I would have joined the Army!"
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #40 on: 12/06/2013 02:24 PM »
New interviews:

Part 1


Part 2


Interesting tidbits:
VEX is the experiments and will be launched from Pipinas, Punta de Indio. They expect to launch four times.

The Tronador II will have a complex built right next to the Navy's Puerto Belgrano Base.
Note from me: The Navy is ceding the plot, but they'll use some range and safety infrastructure from the launch base. The ideal position that they wanted was 50 km south of Pinamar, but since they have planned an hipergolic propellent plant, the EIS didn't pass. Further north was too populated, and the base was the only place where they could get the EIS approved. It's a former range, if I'm not mistaken.
Everything is being developed from scratch.
All the complex design are preliminary.
Rocket and fuel will be produced on site (apparently)


Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #41 on: 12/09/2013 01:05 PM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).
« Last Edit: 12/09/2013 01:06 PM by baldusi »

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #42 on: 12/19/2013 12:55 PM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).

What's our local expertise on handling kerolox engines? As far as I know, none. Do we know if it's pressure-fed or turbopump-fed?
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #43 on: 12/20/2013 02:02 AM »
And they have finally revealed that the first stage (at least, I suspect first and second) will use RP-1/LOX. The local oil company (YPF) will be producing the kerosene.
Here is the article of the local news paper.
According to  Eduardo Taraba, chief of construction at Barerias and CONAE official, the whole complex will have four main building areas that will be connected by a road. The whole complex will hold, in 30Ha, the rocket manufacturing plant, rocket and engine test stand, payload integration building, horizontal integration facility and launch pad (incl. control center) near Pehuen Co, plus other civil buildings.
According to  José Manuel Aspigueta, a CONAE chemist, the hypergolic propellant plant is being studied to be installed near Coronel Rosales (very close by) or in Ensenada (some 50km south of Buenos Aires City) and transported to the launch pad. Upto now, hipergolic fuel and associated processes was developed in Falda del Carme, Córdoba Province (and former place of the Condor II project).

What's our local expertise on handling kerolox engines? As far as I know, none. Do we know if it's pressure-fed or turbopump-fed?
The rumors and system design do point to a 30tnf turbopump-fed gas generator design. All procurement documents on 30tnf engine have always talked about turbopump. And I doubt they'll do anything but gas generator cycle with kerosen. The experience is, basically, null. But many have started with kerolox, since it's the easiest combination to handle and one of the easiest to start (of the non hypergolic). It's the correct choice, in my humble opinion. Big hypergolic were not only ridiculously dangerous, but given the desire of CONAE to clearly stay out of military application technologies, they would create a lot of international problems.
If they pull this out, this is gonna be an extremely interesting project. They had stated that they expected a USD 6M price for a 500kg to a 400km polar orbit. If they achieve that, they'll have a very interesting product. I seriously doubt they can achieve that cost on the first try, though.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #44 on: 12/24/2013 08:41 PM »
CONAE officials have confirmed RP-1 as fuel. It will be produced by YPF. And they did stated that they needed the RP-1 because its used for cooling. So they are confirming regenerative cooling.
On a different note, the SAOCOM-1A was stated to launch in 2015 and the SAOCOM-1B in 2016.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #45 on: 03/03/2014 02:29 AM »
Well, as you probably might know, the launch test of VEx-1 occurred on February 26th.
Apparently the test vehicle rose two meters before fall back into the launch pad and burn.
There is very little information from CONAE. (none).
There is still no public report of the test.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #46 on: 03/06/2014 02:23 AM »
CONAE says the vehicle didn't explode. They say the engine started but the "take off didn't happen". They still don't know why this happened but apparently the rocket is in "good shape" to investigate the causes. There is a rumor that there was a problem with the pneumatic tensioners. CONAE also qualified the test as positive because they tested several subsystems which ones were nominal at the moment of the event.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #47 on: 03/06/2014 02:55 AM »
From what I understood, it did clear the launch platform. But apparently an hydraulic cylinder of the TVC failed. I'd guess that the system did a shutdown, but that's my speculation. CONAE officials did stated that they had recovered most pieces and the root cause was being investigated. But the second and third vehicles are already built and they did validated all the start sequence. The original flight was going to be just 800m downrange. So its not that bad since the failure is, apparently, a low tech mechanical problem and the really complex systemic issues were mostly validated.
Personally, I'm worried that the failure was a low tech mechanical issue. But this is all second hand information.

Offline plutogno

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #48 on: 03/07/2014 03:59 PM »
the French magazine Air & Cosmos has published a couple of pictures
http://www.air-cosmos.com/espace/echec-du-demonstrateur-argentin-vex-1a.html

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #49 on: 03/07/2014 05:30 PM »
That image has been circulating through Argentinian forums. No fire is apparent and it's clear that they recovered everything (thou the system is probably not salvageable). Regrettably the picture is very low resolution. But the way it fell down just right to the ramp, and the way the nozzle is to the side with one broken pneumatic cylinder (it had two at 90 degrees of pitch and yaw control), are very consistent with ether a cylinder failure or a cylinder attachment failure.
Overall, I do share CONAE's assessment that the test had a "positive" result. They validated practically all the complex parts, including pressurization, ignition, thrust, etc.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #50 on: 03/08/2014 04:44 AM »
Wow. Unlucky that the vehicle failed, but to not have an explosion? Has that ever happened before?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #51 on: 03/08/2014 09:51 AM »
Wow. Unlucky that the vehicle failed, but to not have an explosion? Has that ever happened before?
MR-1?

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #52 on: 03/08/2014 12:02 PM »
Wow. Unlucky that the vehicle failed, but to not have an explosion? Has that ever happened before?
It was supposed to have an apogee of 300m and fly downrange 800m. It didn't had much propellant. Since it's a pressure fed system, when it fell the tank most probably punctuated and lost pressure. So it must have shut down by itself.
If the TVC cylinder that broke was the yaw, it all closes.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #53 on: 03/09/2014 01:48 AM »
Btw, by the press release they had 200kg of hidracine and 260 km of RFNA. Given the volume, there's got to be a whole lot of space in the tanks. The fulltanks should be about 1,000kg and 1,400 for the VEX.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #54 on: 08/15/2014 06:16 PM »
Updated information on CONAE`s site about  Tronador 2:
http://www.conae.gov.ar/index.php/espanol/acceso-al-espacio
Yhe launcher will use  kerolox on 1st stage (retains 90 ton thrust) and MMHydrazine on pressure fed 2nd stage (4 ton thrust)
Also is preparing launch of Vex 1b

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #55 on: 08/15/2014 06:50 PM »
That image has been circulating through Argentinian forums. No fire is apparent and it's clear that they recovered everything (thou the system is probably not salvageable). Regrettably the picture is very low resolution. But the way it fell down just right to the ramp, and the way the nozzle is to the side with one broken pneumatic cylinder (it had two at 90 degrees of pitch and yaw control), are very consistent with ether a cylinder failure or a cylinder attachment failure.
Overall, I do share CONAE's assessment that the test had a "positive" result. They validated practically all the complex parts, including pressurization, ignition, thrust, etc.

Well, it has potentile, but I find it kind of disturbing that the rocket configuration is so much like an ICBM.  Could be they're being influenced by SpaceX, but still...
My God!  It's full of universes!

Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #56 on: 08/16/2014 09:53 AM »
Last night Vex 1b was succsessfully launched

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #57 on: 08/17/2014 07:25 PM »
Here it is a caption of VEx-1B beeing succesfully launched.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #58 on: 08/17/2014 07:33 PM »
And here it's a video of T-60s countdown
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x23troa_facebookjjj_webcam

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #59 on: 08/17/2014 07:43 PM »
It has been said that the vehicle reach 2200m and a velocity of 838km/h. With a thrust of 4000kg-force in its single engine and an initial weight of 2800kg. (Pablo de León)

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #60 on: 08/19/2014 11:34 PM »

That image has been circulating through Argentinian forums. No fire is apparent and it's clear that they recovered everything (thou the system is probably not salvageable). Regrettably the picture is very low resolution. But the way it fell down just right to the ramp, and the way the nozzle is to the side with one broken pneumatic cylinder (it had two at 90 degrees of pitch and yaw control), are very consistent with ether a cylinder failure or a cylinder attachment failure.
Overall, I do share CONAE's assessment that the test had a "positive" result. They validated practically all the complex parts, including pressurization, ignition, thrust, etc.

Well, it has potentile, but I find it kind of disturbing that the rocket configuration is so much like an ICBM.  Could be they're being influenced by SpaceX, but still...
Why do you think it looks like an ICBM? RP-1/LOX isn't exactly optimum propellant for such a weapon. And the use of three engines means little in this sense. I rather see them having some growth margin there.
And the upper stage is a pressure fed hypergilic, hardly in like the turbopump powered upper stages used on most military vehicles. Basically, it has little resemblance, at least in my book.
The military project was much more weaponizable, IMHO..

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #61 on: 08/20/2014 08:24 PM »
Well, this a graphic of altitude vs. range of the test. With the scale in metres. This is the way we get informed in here, with fortuitous captures of vids.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #62 on: 08/24/2014 12:39 AM »
Diagram about past and future tests of Tronador II project. (In spanish)

Notice that at the end of first stage of tests, it is said "More Vex-1", according to what it has already been said that it could be up to 6 Vex-1 launches. (All depends of results of the tests)
This first stage of Vex-1 is being conducted in Pipinas (Punta Indio) And it's being testing navigation, flight control and guidance. But second stage will be conducted in Puerto Belgrano's launch pad, now under construction.
Notice that in the 2 stage of tests, the diagram says that will be tested the separation of rocket stages and coif.

Here there is the complete summary (in spanish): http://scripts.minplan.gob.ar/octopus/archivos.php?file=3046

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #63 on: 08/25/2014 02:45 AM »
Diagram about past and future tests of Tronador II project. (In spanish)

Notice that at the end of first stage of tests, it is said "More Vex-1", according to what it has already been said that it could be up to 6 Vex-1 launches. (All depends of results of the tests)
This first stage of Vex-1 is being conducted in Pipinas (Punta Indio) And it's being testing navigation, flight control and guidance. But second stage will be conducted in Puerto Belgrano's launch pad, now under construction.
Notice that in the 2 stage of tests, the diagram says that will be tested the separation of rocket stages and coif.

Here there is the complete summary (in spanish): http://scripts.minplan.gob.ar/octopus/archivos.php?file=3046
From the above mentioned presentation:
VEX-1: basically an underfilled second stage. Objective is to validate second stage propulsion and GNC.
VEX-5: A single engine of the first stage (30tnf, RP-1/LOX) custom first stage and the VEX-1 on top, plus a fairing. Objective is to validate first stage propulsion, staging and fairing separation.
Tronador II: Orbital vehicle with 250kg to SSO (500km). First launch will be a technical demonstrator.
Tronador III: Improved vesion with 750km payload. The image only shows a first stage increase in size. My guess is that first stage engines might get extra thrust.

Then they talk about how they are stating from Pipinas while they develop the integrated base in Puerto Belgrano. They are making the rocket factory, engine test stand, processing area and launch pad all in the same zone. They'll continue the testing from the new site as soon as its ready.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #64 on: 08/25/2014 03:49 PM »
Well, this a graphic of altitude vs. range of the test. With the scale in metres. This is the way we get informed in here, with fortuitous captures of vids.
BTW, the text says that they had a parachute to recover the vehicle. It's an analysis of how the graph is compatible with parachute deployment.

PD: Great info cdemczuk!

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #65 on: 08/25/2014 04:29 PM »
I was hoping you could explain better than me the graphics and figures I had posted! Greetings!
« Last Edit: 08/26/2014 12:47 AM by cdemczuk »

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #66 on: 08/26/2014 12:38 AM »
Just for the record, a short video of Vex-1B launch.

www.youtube.com/embed/VcJa_mTtAJQ?rel=0"

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #67 on: 08/27/2014 06:38 AM »
Thanks cdemczuk. The exhaust seems to be a bit metal rich from the sparks coming out of the nozzle.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #68 on: 09/09/2014 04:15 AM »
One of the mock up of the future facility for static fire test of 30tn engines.

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #69 on: 09/09/2014 08:50 PM »


Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #71 on: 12/24/2014 04:34 AM »
http://www.energypress.com.ar/index.php?r=noticias/verNoticia&q=76271
Quote
Ahora vendrá la prueba con el VEx-5. Culminada esa etapa, será el turno del modelo tecnológico y luego el operativo del Tronador II, de cara a septiembre de 2015.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #72 on: 12/25/2014 04:50 AM »
Present plans for Vex5 are: Vex5a launch April 2015. Vex5b in June. Tronador 2 demonstrator December2015. But this dates might have delays

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #73 on: 02/09/2015 12:32 PM »
The launch schedule for this tests is really demanding. I believe certains delays are expected. Remember most of this is novel for local technological development, and their budget is not precisely unlimited.
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Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #74 on: 02/16/2015 09:59 AM »
NASA´s chief Charles Bolden visits this week Argentina´s Conae and Invap
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com.ar/2015/02/conae-y-nasa-firmaran-un-nuevo-acuerdo.html#more

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #75 on: 02/16/2015 10:11 AM »
Video describing Arsat and Vex/Tronador


It was shown at COPUOS 52th session (Committee on the Peaceful Uses of Outer Space)
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com.ar/2015/02/argentina-presente-en-la-52-sesiones-de.html#more

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #76 on: 02/16/2015 07:15 PM »
New details about the Tronador II:

- The launcher will be a 2-1/2 staged-vehicle: two of the three first stage engines will separate first, while the core continues (like early Atlas).
- The vehicle size has changed: the diameter is 2,5m for the entire vehicle, but the upper stage is now shorter (the whole vehicle is 27m long).

I'm attaching several renders made for a local forum by Rober Digiorge. Copyright is in the image.
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Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #77 on: 02/17/2015 01:13 AM »
Great info! Could you attach the source or that forum you said?
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 01:14 AM by cdemczuk »

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #78 on: 02/17/2015 01:51 AM »
This table shows the next launch attempts for this year.
As you can see, there are schedule to be launched 3 experimental vehicles as much. (A bit ambicious for me)

The new experimental rockets are the VEX-5.
Unlike VEx-1 vehicles (VEx-1a and Vex-1b), VEx-5a and VEx-5b have an engine of 30tn of thrust, and VEx-5c is a two stages rocket.

The table shows that it's intended to be launched the first two vehicles from the same launch pad complex in Punta Indio, but VEx-5c is intended to be launched from the new and definitive Launch Pad complex now under construction.

As you can see the three VEX-5 vehicles are the three last experimental rockets to be launched before Tronador II.

Source: 52° Regular Session of the Subcommittee on Scientific and Technical Matters of the United Nations Committee on Peaceful Uses of Ultra-Terrestrial Space.
and http://machtres.com/
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 12:55 PM by cdemczuk »

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #79 on: 02/17/2015 06:05 AM »
Good luck ;)
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

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Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #81 on: 02/17/2015 01:28 PM »
Here is an image of a brochure delivered near the Punta Indio test's launch pad.

In the image you can see 5 rockets on the right, these are from left to right the VEx-1(a-b), VEx-5(a-b), VEx-5c, Tronador II (technological) and Tronador II (operative).

As it was said before, VEx-5a it's scheduled to be launched in April, VEx-5b in July and VEx-5c in November.

VEx-1(a-b): 1 stage, 1 engine of 3 or 4tn of thrust.
VEx-5(a-b): 1 stage, 1 engine of 30tn of thrust.
VEx-5c: 2 stages, 1 engine of 30tn and 1 engine of 3 or 4tn of thrust.
Tronador II: 2 and 1/2 stages, 3 engines of 30tn and 1 engine of 3 or 4tn of thrust.

Image: "Zona Militar" forum: http://www.zona-militar.com/foros/threads/proyecto-tronador-cohete-espacial.14493/
« Last Edit: 02/17/2015 01:35 PM by cdemczuk »

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #82 on: 02/24/2015 02:56 AM »
Charles Bolden, NASA's administrator, visited CONAE, INVAP and the UNLP, and said yesterday to a local journal the following words about Tronador's project:

"We had the opportunity to talk about the VEx, which it was passing trough a series of tests, and about Tronador, and they informed us about the progress they were accomplishing in both of them"

"It impressed me a lot. In particular that it is being done in colaboration with a university, where students have the opportunity to be part of the team which is building a launch vehicle. We don't do that very often in the U.S. It impacted me"

Source: http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1770453-charles-bolden-los-humanos-podremos-encontrar-la-forma-de-sobrevivir-en-marte

Picture: Charles Bolden at the US embassy in Buenos Aires during the interview.
« Last Edit: 03/14/2015 09:56 PM by cdemczuk »

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #83 on: 06/15/2015 03:23 AM »
Rumors are talking about a 28th July launch... Nothing confirmed yet.

Offline Soheil

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #84 on: 06/15/2015 01:09 PM »
Rumors are talking about a 28th July launch... Nothing confirmed yet.


Which rocket ?
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Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #85 on: 06/15/2015 01:14 PM »
Rumors are talking about a 28th July launch... Nothing confirmed yet.


Which rocket ?
VEX-5A

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #86 on: 09/24/2015 10:24 AM »

Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #87 on: 10/05/2015 02:24 AM »
Family solid fuel small LV from Argentina:
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com/2015/09/el-resurgir-del-fenix.html

Sirio III will be a 4-stage rocket with 10 kg LEO payload.
Águila IV will have the ability to orbit loads of 50 kg.

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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #90 on: 11/14/2015 12:28 AM »
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com/2015/10/conae-con-presupuesto-de-1800-millones.html#more

Thanks Salo. SAOCOM 1A  is now scheduled for the end of 2016, Tronador II for the first half of 2017, SABIA-Mar A in 2018, SABIA-Mar B in 2019, the first two SARE satellites in 2018 and two more SARE satellites in 2019 with each SARE satellite being launched by a Tronador II. It wasn't totally clear, but it seems the VEx 5 launchers have been delayed to 2016.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline lbiderman

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #91 on: 11/14/2015 01:14 PM »
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com/2015/10/conae-con-presupuesto-de-1800-millones.html#more

Thanks Salo. SAOCOM 1A  is now scheduled for the end of 2016, Tronador II for the first half of 2017, SABIA-Mar A in 2018, SABIA-Mar B in 2019, the first two SARE satellites in 2018 and two more SARE satellites in 2019 with each SARE satellite being launched by a Tronador II. It wasn't totally clear, but it seems the VEx 5 launchers have been delayed to 2016.

Tronador II has a window from half 2017 to 2018. I seriously believe it won't be ready until the later day. CONAE has always been over-optimistic about launch dates.
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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #92 on: 11/14/2015 04:40 PM »
Beyond the political propaganda, here's a video of an engineer working on the 30tn engine testbed:
"If I wanted to lead a bunch of robots that could only follow orders, I would have joined the Army!"
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Offline kirovoleg

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #93 on: 01/08/2016 04:22 PM »
According to this newspaper, VEX5-A is scheduled to launch by the end of February.

Source LaNacion (in spanish)
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1860408-lanzador-espacial-cuenta-regresiva-para-otro-prototipo

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #94 on: 01/08/2016 06:04 PM »
Here are some close-up images of the first and second stages of the VEX-5A. Credit goes to https://www.facebook.com/graficaadhesiva/posts/884081698312562

"If I wanted to lead a bunch of robots that could only follow orders, I would have joined the Army!"
Captain Alvarez (Uruguay Marine Corps) in Congo (MONUC Deployment), March 2007

Offline cdemczuk

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #95 on: 01/09/2016 12:47 AM »
VEx-5A on launch pad.
(Currently is in horizontal position)

As it was said, launch will take place by the end of February.

I think they will take off the "Ministerio de Planificación" label before the launch because CONAE's situation within the new national government has been clarified. Now the space agency will be sponsored by the Ministry of Science and Technology ;)
« Last Edit: 01/09/2016 01:06 AM by cdemczuk »

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #96 on: 02/17/2016 04:33 AM »
Can't wait to see it fly.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #97 on: 03/15/2016 10:51 PM »
VEx-5A sheduled in May 2016.
VEx-5B - 2017.
VEx-5С - 2019.
Tronador II - 2020.

http://www.perfil.com/ciencia/Planean-mas-pruebas-para-el-lanzador-de-satelites-argentino--20160312-0062.html
« Last Edit: 03/15/2016 11:09 PM by Salo »


Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #99 on: 06/08/2016 05:05 AM »
Article says VEX 5A launching between July and August.
« Last Edit: 06/08/2016 05:05 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #100 on: 06/11/2016 07:19 PM »

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #101 on: 06/13/2016 06:01 AM »
Looks like they are building the launch control centre at an old cement factory called Punta Indio. Punta Indio also has a test stand (this might be a launch complex as well). Launch complex is at Bahia Blanca. Some Tronador II information.

Height: 27.8 m
Diameter: 2.5 m
Launch Mass: 64 t
Payload: 250 kg

The video shows launch of either VEx 1A or VEx 1B (probably 1B, since that was successful). An out of date schedule is shown. A vehicle is shown being assembled. This is probably VEx 5A.
« Last Edit: 06/13/2016 06:05 AM by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #102 on: 06/13/2016 03:53 PM »
Some highlights from the video:
They have decided to move all manufacturing and testing to Punta Indio, with a simple HIF at Puerto Belgrano.
They will use structural tanks with friction stir welding for the Tronador II fuselage.
The engine test benches will also be housed in Punta Indio.
They will have two sites, actually. One for the test launches of the VEX, and another for the factory.
They will develop their own composite pressure vessels (400Bar) for the pressurizers. Also development of spherical tanks.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #103 on: 11/22/2016 10:05 PM »
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com/2016/11/conae-prepara-el-lanzamiento-del-vex-5a.html
Google translate:
Quote
In the absence of climatic inconveniences in the Samborombón Bay area, the launch of the VEX-5A Experimental Vehicle is scheduled to take place from 22 to 24 November.


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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #104 on: 11/22/2016 10:11 PM »

Online Salo

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #105 on: 11/22/2016 10:44 PM »
The VEX 5-A rocket test of the Tronador II space project was suspended for "technical" reasons only a few minutes before launch from the Punta Indio space base, the National Space Activities Commission reported.
http://www.clarin.com/politica/Cohete-VEX-suspendieron-minutos-lanzamiento_0_1691830961.html

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #106 on: 11/25/2016 09:58 PM »
Julio C.Torres @JCT_3

#CoheteTronador  El Vex5a seria lanzado en los próximos días después de suspenderse el lanzamiento programado para el día d ayer #PuntaIndio

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #107 on: 11/26/2016 05:51 AM »
For those of us who don't understand Spanish.

"#CoheteTronador el Vex5a would be released in the coming days after suspending the launch scheduled for yesterday #PuntaIndio"
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #108 on: 11/27/2016 07:22 PM »
Quote
would be released
Steven: I guess "would be launched" fits better to "seria lanzado"

Offline russianhalo117

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #109 on: 11/29/2016 08:11 PM »
Quote
would be released
Steven: I guess "would be launched" fits better to "seria lanzado"
yes. most likely

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #110 on: 11/29/2016 09:00 PM »
The third prototype of the Tronador, on Wednesday, returning to the Indian Point Base after the suspension of the launch. The CONAE would be to try again before Christmas.
http://www.elcolonodigital.com.ar/article/fracaso-un-tercer-lanzamiento-del-cohete/

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Offline Danderman

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #112 on: 12/23/2016 09:44 PM »
y   ................... que paso?

The launcher that would be released has not been released.

Offline albatros68

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #113 on: 12/23/2016 10:02 PM »
This Tronador project has always moved slowly. And the present government seems to have limited the funds available for the local space related activities.
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com.ar/2016/12/menor-inversion-en-el-sector-espacial.html#more

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #114 on: 04/21/2017 09:00 PM »
Vex5a failed. At least Argentina´s first kerolox engine was able to work for some seconds of flight
http://argentinaenelespacio.blogspot.com.ar/2017/04/fallido-lanzamiento-del-vex-5a.html#more

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #115 on: 04/23/2017 04:29 AM »
Bing Translation.

"April 20, 2017, being approximately 18:00 hs, was the experimental VEX5A vehicle testing, the line of development of the satellite launcher national TII-TIII.

The behavior of all subsystems of flight and ground segments were 100% in accordance with the design, from ignition to eight seconds.

Thus the takeoff and subsequent period of flight were nominal. For reasons still under analysis within six seconds of flight was interrupted the supply of propellant to the engine."
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #116 on: 04/25/2017 09:26 AM »


« Last Edit: 04/25/2017 09:27 AM by Jarnis »

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #117 on: 04/28/2017 06:19 PM »
Another video but with a closeup at the beginning.

Offline kch

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #118 on: 04/28/2017 06:35 PM »
Well, foo ... hate to see that happen.  Hope the pad isn't badly damaged, and that they find & fix the problem quickly.  Best wishes for the next one!

Offline JH

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #119 on: 05/04/2017 01:03 AM »
According to this site it didn't have much propellant in it at launch, and almost all of it was RP-1 and LOX: http://www.b14643.de/Spacerockets_1/Rest_World/Tronador-LSA/Description/Frame.htm.

That's 0.5% of what the Falcon 9 that blew up on the pad had in it, for reference.
« Last Edit: 05/04/2017 01:09 AM by JH »

Offline baldusi

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Re: Argentina's SLV development
« Reply #120 on: 05/31/2017 12:19 AM »
Apparently, there was a fuel leak during fueling operations. It generated a fire in the aft section that for some cause to determine, closed the propellant supply valves to the engine.

http://www.conae.gov.ar/index.php/espanol/2017/920-analisis-del-evento-en-la-prueba-del-vex5a

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