Author Topic: Information about Proton rocket  (Read 760772 times)

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #180 on: 02/15/2017 07:50 PM »
KBKhA builds RD-0124 by themselves ("in-house").
Nicolas PILLET
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Offline SLC

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #181 on: 02/16/2017 08:58 PM »
KBKhA builds RD-0124 by themselves ("in-house").
Many thanks for this info.  So http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RD-0124 was wrong - and indeed following the previously cited reference (the VMZ web page http://vmzvrn.ru/eng/products-and-services/liquid-rocket-engine/) there, VMZ currently produce only the RD-0110, RD-0210, RD-0211, RD-0212 and RD-58.  So somebody editing the article didn't check their references ...
I've just corrected that Wikipedia article.  But can you point us to a good reference for the fact that KBKhA build it in-house?  I'd like to get rid of that "Citation needed" tag!  I'd usually go to http://www.russianspaceweb.com/rd0124.html for this, but though Anatoly Zak gives a lot of info on development and testing at KBKhA, he doesn't explicitly say that routine production is there now.  Do they build any other engines in-house?

Edited to add URL for VMZ web page
« Last Edit: 02/16/2017 10:16 PM by SLC »

Offline Nicolas PILLET

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #182 on: 02/16/2017 09:12 PM »
But can you point us to a good reference for the fact that KBKhA build it in-house?

Official history book of KBKhA, Люди и ракетные двигатели ("People and rocket engines"), page 262, for example.

http://www.kosmonavtika.com/bibliographie/livres/couvertures/kbkhalioudi.jpg
Nicolas PILLET
kosmonavtika.com : The French site on Russian Space

Offline SLC

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #183 on: 02/16/2017 10:11 PM »
But can you point us to a good reference for the fact that KBKhA build it in-house?

Official history book of KBKhA, Люди и ракетные двигатели ("People and rocket engines"), page 262, for example.

http://www.kosmonavtika.com/bibliographie/livres/couvertures/kbkhalioudi.jpg

Many thanks again!  I've added that ref to my change in the article.  And (hello baldusi) after I did that, I looked at View History, saw that baldusi who asked the question a few posts ago is also a major contributor to that article, and generally got the feeling that he would have fixed it if I hadn't jumped in first ... so, baldusi, please feel free to edit my edits!  :) :)

Offline anik

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #184 on: 03/02/2017 01:24 PM »
Set n°151 was used on 27 September 1985 for a ground test

Set 151 was used for a real flight with Kosmos-1686, not for a ground test.

Screenshot from Novosti kosmonavtiki magazine 11/2000 (page 62):

Offline Stan Black

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #185 on: 03/02/2017 03:06 PM »
Set n°151 was used on 27 September 1985 for a ground test

Set 151 was used for a real flight with Kosmos-1686, not for a ground test.

Screenshot from Novosti kosmonavtiki magazine 11/2000 (page 62):

Quote
In addition to the structual enhancement, the RD-253 first stage engines are uprated. For performance purposes, rated thrust on the engines of the first stage of Proton M is being increased by 7%. This enhancement is accomplished with only a minor modification to the propellant flow control valves. This modification first flew as a mission-unique enhancement on the Proton K that delivered the MIR space station core module in 1986.
Proton Mission Planner’s Guide, LKEB-9812-1990 Issue 1, Revision 4, March 1, 1999

Is it an assumption based on the dates that it was used for Kosmos-1686?
« Last Edit: 03/04/2017 02:20 PM by Stan Black »

Offline SLC

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #186 on: 03/11/2017 10:13 PM »
A little more detail on the VMZ "solder problem", from SpaceNews at:

http://spacenews.com/ils-plans-larger-proton-payload-fairing-defers-work-on-smaller-proton-variant

"This is what I would say is a quality success story," Pysher said of the engine recall. "The quality system within Russia did its job." A batch of six engines is built for the four-engine second stage of the Proton, with the other two subjected to extended testing and then analysis. It was that testing, he said, that discovered the defect caused by the use of the wrong solder.

While Russian media reports claimed that the solder used in the defective engine was a less expensive one, the opposite was the case, Kramer said. A technician working on another program at the factory, he said, violated procedures and returned excess solder, which got mixed up with the solder used for the Proton engines. "The bad solder was the solder with the precious metals," he said.
« Last Edit: 03/11/2017 10:34 PM by SLC »

Offline Arch Admiral

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #187 on: 03/15/2017 12:29 AM »
"A batch of six engines is built for the four-engine second stage of the Proton, with the other two subjected to extended testing and then analysis."

So the four actual flight engines are not tested? This is the same system that worked so well on the N-1.

Offline Ewoker

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #188 on: 03/15/2017 09:20 AM »
Now, now mr. Negative :)

It says extended testing for the two -> others will be tested...

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #189 on: 03/16/2017 03:42 AM »
"A batch of six engines is built for the four-engine second stage of the Proton, with the other two subjected to extended testing and then analysis."

So the four actual flight engines are not tested? This is the same system that worked so well on the N-1.

Many engine types can only be fired once. (including all solids) So that's the only way to test them, by picking samples.

Offline Alter Sachse

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Offline SLC

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #191 on: 03/30/2017 04:14 PM »
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/proton_2017.html#0324
... and an update to that same page today:

"On March 30, head of NPO Energomash Igor Arbuzov was quoted by the official Russian media as saying that all 71 RD-0210 and RD-0212 engines for the second and third stages of the Proton rocket had been defective and needed to be re-build. Arbuzov said that the first refurbished engines would be shipped in May and the most of the repairs would be performed during the rest of 2017, but the work would be fully completed only in 2018."

Offline Tobi

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #192 on: 03/31/2017 06:34 AM »
Did I understand correctly that no proton launches are expected during 2017?

Offline koroljow

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #193 on: 03/31/2017 06:56 AM »
Did I understand correctly that no proton launches are expected during 2017?
AIU:
-1st batch of refurbished engines ready for integration in May 2017 (launch summer 2017?)
-refurbishment continuing through 2017/18
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Offline SLC

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #194 on: 03/31/2017 01:34 PM »
... and still more detail about the "solder problem" from Anatoly Zak at:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/proton_2017.html

The main new info today is this:

"According to industry sources, the ominous issue with Proton's engines was discovered after a routine static bench test, known as KVI, which normally uses an engine from a manufacturing batch. Although the engine had fired successfully on the stand, the subsequent analysis of its parts revealed that a solder used to integrate the nozzle heads of gas generators in the RD-0210 and RD-0212 engines was not matching the production documentation.  ...   According to specifications, the structural walls and the nozzle chamber of the gas generator had to be fused together with the help of the solder designated G70NKh, which employs nickel, chromium and manganese alloy (Ni-Cr-Mn). However the investigation revealed that due to mismanagement of the raw material usage at the Voronezh Mechanical Plant, the required alloy had been replaced with the PZhK-1000 solder comprised of palladium, nickel, chromium and silicon (Pd-Ni-Cr-Si). Because the replaced solder did not meet specifications, it could lead to structural disintegration of the nozzle head during the firing of the gas generator."

So definitely what we'd call a brazing alloy.  Still not really clear what the revised Proton launch schedule will be.

Offline SLC

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #195 on: 04/27/2017 01:50 PM »
Anatoly Zak reports return to flight scheduled for May 29-31 with EchoStar-21:

http://www.russianspaceweb.com/proton_2017.html#0426

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #196 on: 05/18/2017 05:40 PM »
Planned launch date for EchoStar XXI:first half of June (6.-15.06.2017)
previous Proton launch 9.06.2016... :(
« Last Edit: 05/18/2017 05:41 PM by Alter Sachse »

Offline ZachS09

Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #197 on: 05/18/2017 05:46 PM »
Planned launch date for EchoStar XXI:first half of June (6.-15.06.2017)
previous Proton launch 9.06.2016... :(

I feel you, Alter Sachse. It's a shame that Roscosmos keeps delaying EchoStar 21 for whatever reason.
"Liftoff of Falcon 9: the world's first reflight of an orbital class rocket."

Offline Alter Sachse

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #198 on: 05/18/2017 05:50 PM »
Planned launch date for EchoStar XXI:first half of June (6.-15.06.2017)
previous Proton launch 9.06.2016... :(

I feel you, Alter Sachse. It's a shame that Roscosmos keeps delaying EchoStar 21 for whatever reason.
The problems also delay the launch of own (also military) satellites !

Offline baldusi

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Re: Information about Proton rocket
« Reply #199 on: 05/22/2017 01:49 PM »
Planned launch date for EchoStar XXI:first half of June (6.-15.06.2017)
previous Proton launch 9.06.2016... :(

I feel you, Alter Sachse. It's a shame that Roscosmos keeps delaying EchoStar 21 for whatever reason.

They had to solve the engine issues, and probably some other things. As long as it is about mission assurance and improving on the 10% failure rate of Proton, I think it's a step in the right direction. Proton should launch when ready and not before.

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