Author Topic: Promise to reliable and economic space access: candidates of future propulsion tech  (Read 37488 times)

Offline MTKeshe

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The prototype system producing  gravitational field force is shown in this link

http://www.keshetechnologies.com/keshe_gravity.html

The system is exactly half sphere.

Through tests with full sphere prototypes. http://www.keshetechnologies.com/dynamic_reactors.html ,

it was noted , that to achieve a more effective anti-gravitational field system  semi-spheres are more efficient, and allow use of Hydrogen , where there are no needs for additional systems for ionisation of hydrogen.

The Link for PCT  and European patent  application publication for gravitational system

http://v3.espacenet.com/textdoc?DB=EPODOC&IDX=EP1770717&QPN=EP1770717

There are two further substantial patent applications still to be released.

NASA, USA military labs in England , Marshal space lab,  other space agencies, aircraft and defence organisations and military  organisations in USA have been going through our patents and site like professionals for past years.

Testing these new findings for past two years, and have been running test from these patents.

Do not forget M2P2 project of NASA advance concept program

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/solarsystem/m2p2_propulsion_817.html

NASA has  achieved  the use of Argon gas , with use of arc, to produce magnetosphere, without gravitational field forces.

NASA hope to achieve  the use  of  helium in their prototype  in the next few years, if NASA can find the money for advance concept projects, which has been cancelled this year.

Then , may be , then NASA can found development of Hydrogen system , about 10 years after that.

So, Production of magnetospheres  for propulsions are not a dream , but reality, which   NASA has been founding and clearly chasing, but their scientists never understood the concept fully.

We have developed and successfully tested the Hydrogen system, and this has been hard to accept by NASA, and they have made every endeavour to block this technology.

May be  , this is a good point and time to put out the hand  of cooperation , and let personal animosities of the past  to be put a side for the advancement of science to prevail and let lawyers to get back on the table and finish the negotiations.

As the top NASA patent attorney told me , we will run parallels. (But the reality is that one drinks coca cola every day , but no one knows the combination except the firm).

May be  some one in NASA management  to get on the line and bring this feud for past two years to an end, then people will not ask for Santa, but we can get on with real development.

We can release all the regular visits of all above organisations , even with their computer terminals numbers, duration of reading and coping, and pages they have downloaded,  in the past years from  our site.

Finally: Cola bottle is for production of graphene.

In reality one day I might even release the importance of nano matters and graphene in production and control of  gravitational system.

We have released more information on our site than one needs to know.

Is for the wise man to make the connections.

May be Santa has already delivered his X-M gift, but as they say, how can a man in the outback’s whom has always used  candle to light his home, ever going to  appreciate the beauty of a light  generated through complex nuclear power.

Offline meiza

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"The realization of eradication of cancer through non-intrusive treatment without any radiation or medication, by just resetting the energy levels of the defected cells."

Sounds like a good thing.

Offline khallow

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8900 - 21/12/2007  3:34 AM

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khallow - 21/12/2007  6:21 PM

[8] Expendable rocket

Probably the best choice in today's economic climate. I just don't see a more reliable solution replacing expendables until launch volume goes up substantially.
please note that it's a prediction by 2100, not current situation ;)
It seems unlikely that the launch demand will be the same 100 years later

Just remember that you need to get there from here. Seems likely that we'll need to build up demand using cheaper than current expendables and eventually switch to reusables when there's enough demand to support them. It's not clear to me whether any of these other technologies will become feasible economically much less technologically.
Karl Hallowell

Offline MTKeshe

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The gravitational systems are “feasible or economically viable” or “they sound good“.

In the universe the working of an atom ,  a solar system or  galaxies are all based on the same principles.

They all in their physical scale, possess their own internal energy source, their own gravitational field system and  their own magnetosphere cocoon to protect the inner power production centre.

According to US federal government report over  120 000 individuals in USA die of COPD (Chronic obstructive pulmonary disease) a year
http://www.lungusa.org/site/pp.asp?c=dvLUK9O0E&b=35020

The illness causes reduction in lung capacity. In most cases takes an individual to go through the process of living a normal life to gradual , limited movement( 50% lung capacity), home bond (30-40% lung capacity), wheelchair bond, then bed bond and then the use of oxygen cylinders, before the death.

Which this can take up to 20 years of ones life.

To look after these people cost tens of thousands of dollars a year for the nation per person.

Understanding the working of universal gravitational system ,  replicating the same principle and developing simple drinking cups, where by just 1.5 litter of  drinking water a day  from the tap and breathing air which goes through these cups, the gravitational principle has been put to the test.

Where volunteer , with 32% lung capacity,  whom has been home bond with community nurse home help to wash her and cleaning her for 6 years. Where after walking 10 meters, she needed  5 minutes to recover before she could talk in September 30th of 2007.

In less than 6 weeks use of the system, today , she goes shopping for two hours on her own,  doing her own X-M dinner on her own, walking for hundreds of meters a day and cycles for over 4 km in one go.

All this without any medication or any other interference.

In other instances using the variation of gravitational system allows volunteer with fibromyalgia,  starts to live a normal life after 30years of suffering.

http://www.google.be/search?hl=en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=fibromyalgia&spell=1


Where through gravitational system developed to isolate the damage area in the nerve system, the cause and the area  damage of  multiple sclerosis MS can be identified  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_sclerosis .

Where further it has become clear that MS is just response to an allergy, which attacks the spinal never protection cover.

Through the use  of gravitational systems, it has become apparent that in our nuclear power systems , we have experience of the same effect by the same element, with the same phenomenon, with similar devastating effect as on  human nerves system with MS.

Read about some study cases in this link http://www.keshetechnologies.com/medical.html  

In space when man will  travel, there will be  no chemist shops round the corner and there are no pharmaceuticals firms to develop new medicine, and we can not carry all medication with space crafts of future.

Illness are created out of unbalances in the plasmatic energy of proteins in human body and change in their  internal gravitational field force.

New germs and bacterias which man will come across in space all will have to have their own plasmatic magnetic field and their own gravitational field force, otherwise they  do not and can notexist.

Thus  the future of deep space exploration depends on being able to support , the life of the crew and passengers and the working of their craft all through one universal order of existence and no more.

The understanding of gravitational systems from sub nuclear to cosmos levels , is the key to successful and sustainable programs.

Where at the same time  development of other  technologies have to be considered and perused, as through accumulated integration with gravitational systems, they will be the solid corner stones of human success in man's jury through space.

Therefore it is right to say  that gravitational systems are “feasible or economically viable” or “they sound good”, depending on their scale of applications.

Offline sticksux

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MTKeshe - 26/12/2007  11:19 PM
The prototype system producing  gravitational field force is shown in this link
http://www.keshetechnologies.com/keshe_gravity.html
The system is exactly half sphere.
Through tests with full sphere prototypes. http://www.keshetechnologies.com/dynamic_reactors.html

I read these web pages and linked pdf. None of them contain even one equation, only scientific sounding nonsense. It does not matter how often you insert words "plasma", "gravitational", "fields" - it does not become more credible in my eyes. No real content there.

Offline MTKeshe

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May be this a valid point, May be there are no equations in any of developments which we have explained.

In most original discoveries of the past, there were no equations, has the human race not benefited by them.

If one needs to have equations for the others to understand the  technologies which is working. Where the working of  the systems have been described and  physically demonstrated.

Then we have achieved in what we set out  to do.

That being the collaboration of other scientists is needed, in trying to explain the working of the system which has physical results and produces physical products, which they can not be denied.

You  are welcome to write the formulas for the working of systems.

If this was a point of criticism, then as I said in a presentation to some scientists ,  I keep the formula of the systems exactly in the same safe as the universe when it created the earth and the solar system.

Then the working of the earth and the existence of the earth is not real as we do not have the formula and equations for its creation.

In any case there are equations and pre-set loading formulas for everything we have explained.

We are engineers and we understand the working of the system, equations are for those  whom need to explain the working.

Offline Nathan

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go to www.emdrive.com

this is the most promising tech i've seen in years. It obeys all laws of physics, is funded by the US government and there is a video of a demonstrator that is shown to work.
Given finite cash, if we want to go to Mars then we should go to Mars.

Offline Frediiiie

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"go to www.emdrive.com

this is the most promising tech i've seen in years. It obeys all laws of physics, is funded by the US government and there is a video of a demonstrator that is shown to work."

The wikipedia article explains the basic problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive
physics as currently understood does not allow violation of mass conservation or energy conservation.
If someone wants to claim that (like emdrive) then there is a whopping great burden of proof on them.

back to the topic.
I think the problem of getting cheaper space access is more one of economics rather than this or that new technology.
What is needed is to move from a situation where every mission has to stand alone to a more generalised systems approach to space.
We need a Bigelow space station where Sats can be serviced.
We need a spacetug on orbit that can bring used sats to this station for refueling & refurbishment This brings down costs by extending satellite life
A Bigelow like inflatable workshop where sats can be brought inside to be worked on in a shirtsleeve environment.
A fuel depot in space.
An ion drive type tug to cart larger loads to the moon or mars
These and other bits of infrastructure when put together make a system where things can be done more easily at lower costs.
After all launch costs are only part of the problem and not even the biggest part.
It also takes pressure off mission designers where everything has to be done in a single package

Offline Nathan

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Frediiiie - 29/12/2007  10:37 AM

"go to www.emdrive.com

this is the most promising tech i've seen in years. It obeys all laws of physics, is funded by the US government and there is a video of a demonstrator that is shown to work."

The wikipedia article explains the basic problem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EmDrive
physics as currently understood does not allow violation of mass conservation or energy conservation.
If someone wants to claim that (like emdrive) then there is a whopping great burden of proof on them.
There is no violation of momentum or energy. Rather the theory behind the operation uses the theory of relativity very wisely. The wiki article is heavily biased against the proposal - however -if you went to the website you will see a demonstrator in operation! The US govt is funding thruster development. I agree that they have the burden of proof but i can see that they are collecting that proof. Also the theory is valid and well explained. This is not one of the nonsensical ideas that have been throw around in the past. This one has some promise and should not be dismissed lightly. Go see the working demonstrator.

(The nonsense peddelled by one of the other posters on this board should be dismissed as there is no physical theory to back - not one simple equation - not even a working demonstrator).
Given finite cash, if we want to go to Mars then we should go to Mars.

Offline tnphysics

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The EmDrive is nonsense. It violates momentum conservation. Hence it is impossible.

My favorite future propulsion technology is NTR, either the nuclear lightbulb type or a fusion type if that is possible. It is the only high-thrust, high-Isp propulsion candidate out there.

Also, a nuclear lightbulb for a GCNTR has been demonstrated.

Offline khallow

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I agree with tnphysics. The key problem with the EM drive is that there's no mechanism for transfering momentum out of the system. Someone needs to do a proper accounting here. If the system isn't closed, as proponents claim, then they need to close the system and explain where the missing momentum went.
Karl Hallowell

Offline cpcjr

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tnphysics - 29/12/2007  6:52 AM

The EmDrive is nonsense. It violates momentum conservation. Hence it is impossible.

If I understand the concept, it uses the entire rest of the universe as a reaction mass. In other words accelerates but pushing the rest of the universe in the opposite direction. That would not violate conservation of momentum.  

Quote
My favorite future propulsion technology is NTR, either the nuclear lightbulb type or a fusion type if that is possible. It is the only high-thrust, high-Isp propulsion candidate out there.

That said, I agree that the nuclear lightbulb type or fusion  probably the best possibility out there.




Offline GreenGlow

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[6]
   Tethers show that it is possible to generate thrust with the geomagnetic field.   This doesn't require any adjustment to the laws of physics.  Of course tethers are difficult to deploy so may be impractical.  A tether is the only well-known method of generating a force by acting against a magnetic field.  A current loop generates a torque.  By using the geomagnetic or solarmagnetic field to accelerate a spacecraft continuous acceleration is possible.   The force may be small, but is always there. 
« Last Edit: 05/02/2010 03:10 am by GreenGlow »

Offline tnphysics

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Not enough to reach LEO. Once in space-yes, but VERY slow. Same uses as ion drive, but limited to ionosphere.

Offline GreenGlow

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Not enough to reach LEO. Once in space-yes, but VERY slow. Same uses as ion drive, but limited to ionosphere.

It's a given that rockets will be needed to reach LEO in the foreseeable future.   No one can predict the usefulness of a propulsion system that  to them is only theoretical.   While electrodynamic propulsion is theoretically possible, there is no generally accepted method of achieving it.  A tether that is several km. long and that conducts tens or hundreds of Amps. could produce a very large force by acting against the Earth's magnetic field.  A different method may similarly produce large forces outside of the ionosphere.  It is not impossible.
« Last Edit: 05/02/2010 08:35 pm by GreenGlow »

Offline mlorrey

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Well, I'm looking at the Air Launched Sortie Vehicle concept that the USAF had been considering in the early 1980's. It uses an FDL-7 type spaceplane with the rocket engines on it and some fuel supply, with an underbelly drop tank, all mounted to the dorsal side of a large transport plane like a 747 that would have its engines modified to have afterburners on them.

Once I get a concept modelled in 3d I'll post some pics.
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Founder, Lorrey Aerospace, B&T Holdings, ACE Exchange, and Hypersonic Systems. Currently I am a venture recruiter for Family Office Venture Capital.

Offline Solman

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Not enough to reach LEO. Once in space-yes, but VERY slow. Same uses as ion drive, but limited to ionosphere.

It's a given that rockets will be needed to reach LEO in the foreseeable future.   No one can predict the usefulness of a propulsion system that  to them is only theoretical.   While electrodynamic propulsion is theoretically possible, there is no generally accepted method of achieving it.  A tether that is several km. long and that conducts tens or hundreds of Amps. could produce a very large force by acting against the Earth's magnetic field.  A different method may similarly produce large forces outside of the ionosphere.  It is not impossible.

 Electrodynamic tethers can actually be used for getting to LEO.

The hanging type ED tether can start with a tether only a few km long and grow to one thousands of miles long as more tether modules are added. The lower end of the tether will be moving at the orbital velocity of the center of mass of the tether. A payload attached to the low end will cause the tether to lose altitude to gain kinetic energy to accelerate the payload. Provided the mass is not too high relative to that of the tether, the payload will remain high enough that the tether's small force is greater than drag at the payload's new altitude. The tether can then either raise the payload such that it will remain in orbit on its own once released or climbers could be used to raise the payload as the tether climbs back to its original altitude.
 The tether modules provide a reduced velocity to LEO that only gets lower as more sections are added. This stands in stark contrast to the beanstalk type tether which must be complete before it is at all useful. The hanging ED tether can be made of materials we have now since its purpose is to reduce required delta V to LEO not eliminate it and so its length can be less than a beanstalk type and still be useful. Also every tether section or module added after the first one will require less delta V to LEO - quite an advantage.
 As tether length increases, rockets will not need their second stages and more massive payloads can be handled. Eventually scramjets or even airliners could rendevous with the lower end as it gets so slow that it can be extended into the stratosphere because the now enormous tether would have the thrust to overcome considerable atmospheric drag. Regardless of whether it is practical to extend the tether to this extreme, just reducing delta V to practical SSTO level would be quite effective at reducing cost of LEO access.

Sol

Offline Solman

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tnphysics - 29/12/2007  6:52 AM

The EmDrive is nonsense. It violates momentum conservation. Hence it is impossible.

If I understand the concept, it uses the entire rest of the universe as a reaction mass. In other words accelerates but pushing the rest of the universe in the opposite direction. That would not violate conservation of momentum. 

Quote
My favorite future propulsion technology is NTR, either the nuclear lightbulb type or a fusion type if that is possible. It is the only high-thrust, high-Isp propulsion candidate out there.

That said, I agree that the nuclear lightbulb type or fusion  probably the best possibility out there.

 That's like saying unobtanium is needed given today's economy isn't it?

Now while it may be technically true that NTR is the only high thrust high Isp propulsion; Solar thermal has higher Isp than solid core NTR and can acheive as much as .1 gee. By using a series of thrusts at perigee, an STR can still take advantage of the Oberth effect especially if lower Isp used for final thrust by increasing H2 mass flow rate. Overall the efficiency can come very close to NTR for something like Mars with only a week or two more time getting away from Earth.

 I was once told that the problem with STR tech was that it was too inexpensive.

 The use of advanced concentrators can greatly increase STR performance. By using a tech I call inflation insitu-form with deradable elements, I believe concentrators with specific power in excess of 100KW/kg could be formed. These concentrators would inflate to shape once on orbit and UV would degrade some parts and harden others to form a mirror with holes smaller than visible light wavelengths. Such concentrators would be able to exceed the thrust of solid core NTR at higher Isp and much lower cost.

 The concentrator can also be used for concentrator type PV which has efficiencies approaching 40% at around 1 KW/kg. It can also be used for high baud communications, radio telescope, ISRU solar furnace and other applications.

Sol 





Offline Jim

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Well, I'm looking at the Air Launched Sortie Vehicle concept that the USAF had been considering in the early 1980's. It uses an FDL-7 type spaceplane with the rocket engines on it and some fuel supply, with an underbelly drop tank, all mounted to the dorsal side of a large transport plane like a 747 that would have its engines modified to have afterburners on them.

Once I get a concept modelled in 3d I'll post some pics.

look here

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=18949.0

Offline GreenGlow

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Not enough to reach LEO. Once in space-yes, but VERY slow. Same uses as ion drive, but limited to ionosphere.

It's a given that rockets will be needed to reach LEO in the foreseeable future.   ...

 Electrodynamic tethers can actually be used for getting to LEO.

The hanging type ED tether can start with a tether only a few km long and grow to one thousands of miles long as more tether modules are added.  ...

Sol

NASA should do more tether experiments; or maybe I should say should have done more when they had LEO capability.  An up-coming mission will test a solar sail.  The Echo 1 balloon, almost 50 years ago, demonstrated this.   Its a big jump to go from a theory that can't be tested on the ground to a working model deployed in orbit.   While tethers prove the possibility of propellantless electrodynamic propulsion, even a simple tether has been very difficult to deploy.  I think electrodynamic tethers will be surpassed by another method.

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