Author Topic: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS  (Read 23517 times)

Online catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11169
  • Enthusiast since the Redstones
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 8782
  • Likes Given: 7815
Speaker Slide Presentation: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight (w/audio)

ISPCS .com
Published on Oct 17, 2017

Benjamin Reed, Director of Commercial Crew Mission Management, SpaceX

Two American companies are on course, following their own unique paths to produce certified end-to-end crew transportation systems capable of flying astronauts to and from the International Space Station. Launch pads along Florida’s Space Coast have taken shape, spacecraft and launch vehicle hardware are being built and extensive qualification testing is under way for Boeing’s CST-100 Starliner and SpaceX’s Crew Dragon systems. The companies are working diligently and purposefully with NASA’s Commercial Crew Program and the astronauts selected to train to fly flight tests to the International Space Station to ensure the systems are meeting the agency’s certification requirements and adequately addressing all credible hazards, including pad emergencies, in-flight aborts and emergency landings.



Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

Offline Ludus

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Liked: 1255
  • Likes Given: 1017
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #1 on: 10/21/2017 05:23 am »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?

Offline jpo234

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Liked: 2280
  • Likes Given: 2184
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #2 on: 10/21/2017 10:59 am »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Jcc

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1196
  • Liked: 404
  • Likes Given: 203
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #3 on: 10/21/2017 01:27 pm »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.

I think the question is whether block 5 will have redesigned legs, maybe similar to Blue Origin's design with thinner legs that can both extend and retract. The SpaceX design with wide carbon fiber legs was intended to provide aerobraking but they are never deployed early because that could cause aerodynamic instability, so the design is a bit suboptimal.

Offline SmallKing

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 426
  • Zhejiang, China, the Earth
  • Liked: 189
  • Likes Given: 220
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #4 on: 10/21/2017 01:41 pm »
AFAIK, the newly designed legs are very similar to those old legs from the appearance
« Last Edit: 10/21/2017 03:32 pm by SmallKing »
Some are bound for happiness, some are bound to glory, some are bound to live with less, who can tell your story?

Offline jpo234

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2021
  • Liked: 2280
  • Likes Given: 2184
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #5 on: 10/21/2017 05:02 pm »


Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.

I think the question is whether block 5 will have redesigned legs, maybe similar to Blue Origin's design with thinner legs that can both extend and retract. The SpaceX design with wide carbon fiber legs was intended to provide aerobraking but they are never deployed early because that could cause aerodynamic instability, so the design is a bit suboptimal.

I thought Ludus referred to the canceled Dragon legs and confused them with the F9 landing legs.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Roy_H

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1209
    • Political Solutions
  • Liked: 450
  • Likes Given: 3163
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #6 on: 12/19/2017 01:33 am »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.

I think the question is whether block 5 will have redesigned legs, maybe similar to Blue Origin's design with thinner legs that can both extend and retract. The SpaceX design with wide carbon fiber legs was intended to provide aerobraking but they are never deployed early because that could cause aerodynamic instability, so the design is a bit suboptimal.

I never saw anything official about the legs being designed for aero-braking. There was a lot of speculation on this forum about using the legs for aero-braking which I thought was nonsense from the get-go for your stated reason.
"If we don't achieve re-usability, I will consider SpaceX to be a failure." - Elon Musk
Spacestation proposal: https://politicalsolutions.ca/forum/index.php?topic=3.0

Offline IanThePineapple

Is there any word on 39A's progress for Crew? Like the access arm?

Offline 76794p

  • Member
  • Posts: 4
  • Austin
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #8 on: 12/19/2017 06:04 am »
Is there any word on 39A's progress for Crew? Like the access arm?
I believe the plan is to install the crew access arm after Falcon Heavy launches.

Offline Norm38

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1696
  • Liked: 1272
  • Likes Given: 2317
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #9 on: 12/20/2017 02:05 am »
I take it the same weight distribution that creates lift during rentry is responsible for its angle with respect to the water?  Don't really like the idea of opening that hatch in anything but calm seas. One big wave away from being flooded. Is that emergenc evac only?

Offline deruch

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2422
  • California
  • Liked: 2006
  • Likes Given: 5634
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #10 on: 12/20/2017 02:19 am »
I take it the same weight distribution that creates lift during rentry is responsible for its angle with respect to the water?  Don't really like the idea of opening that hatch in anything but calm seas. One big wave away from being flooded. Is that emergenc evac only?
Where the diver is sitting isn't the hatch but the parachute compartment.  It's fine for that section to flood.  The hatch is above his head outlined in grey. 
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12095
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18197
  • Likes Given: 12158
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #11 on: 12/20/2017 06:23 am »
I take it the same weight distribution that creates lift during rentry is responsible for its angle with respect to the water?  Don't really like the idea of opening that hatch in anything but calm seas. One big wave away from being flooded. Is that emergenc evac only?
Where the diver is sitting isn't the hatch but the parachute compartment.  It's fine for that section to flood.  The hatch is above his head outlined in grey. 
Also, SOP is that the crew is to remain on-board until the capsule has been hoisted on board the recovery vessel. Only in an emergency will the crew pop the hatch and get out into life-rafts (Apollo style). Only than is actual support from the divers needed.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #12 on: 01/11/2018 09:03 pm »
So... umm... are Boeing still intending for Starliner to land on land with airbags or are they also being directed by NASA to only work water landings?
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline kevinof

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1594
  • Somewhere on the boat
  • Liked: 1869
  • Likes Given: 1262
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #13 on: 01/11/2018 09:08 pm »
airbags.

Offline QuantumG

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9238
  • Australia
  • Liked: 4477
  • Likes Given: 1108
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #14 on: 01/11/2018 09:15 pm »
airbags.

Doesn't answer the question - they intend to use airbags on water landings too.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10205
  • US
  • Liked: 13885
  • Likes Given: 5933
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #15 on: 01/11/2018 09:18 pm »
airbags.

Doesn't answer the question - they intend to use airbags on water landings too.

on land with airbags

Offline yg1968

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17266
  • Liked: 7123
  • Likes Given: 3064
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #16 on: 01/18/2018 12:38 am »
Here is the full presentation:


Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12095
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 18197
  • Likes Given: 12158
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #17 on: 01/18/2018 08:07 am »
airbags.

Doesn't answer the question - they intend to use airbags on water landings too.

on land with airbags
And is approved by NASA given that they studied it to death for Orion. Remember, Orion was initially to land on land, with airbags. The very approach Boeing is using for Starliner now.

Offline AncientU

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
  • Liked: 4164
  • Likes Given: 6078
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #18 on: 01/18/2018 01:34 pm »
So... umm... are Boeing still intending for Starliner to land on land with airbags or are they also being directed by NASA to only work water landings?

The hearings yesterday indicated Boeing land landings and ten reuses of capsule -- SpaceX all water landings and new capsule each time.  This is the problem of forgoing (innovative) land landings... and who pays for the new capsules?
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8144
  • Liked: 6801
  • Likes Given: 2965
Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #19 on: 01/18/2018 01:43 pm »
So... umm... are Boeing still intending for Starliner to land on land with airbags or are they also being directed by NASA to only work water landings?

The hearings yesterday indicated Boeing land landings and ten reuses of capsule -- SpaceX all water landings and new capsule each time.  This is the problem of forgoing (innovative) land landings... and who pays for the new capsules?

SpaceX has said many times that they don't factor reuse into the F9 business plan or price. I don't see why they would factor it into the Commercial Crew bid. $3.1 billion should cover 6 new vehicles.

Hans said they are building 4 vehicles already that will go to ISS: the uncrewed and crewed test vehicles, and the first two operational flight vehicles. They are going to want a number of vehicles in rotation anyway, even with reuse.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0