Author Topic: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS  (Read 8977 times)

Offline catdlr

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Speaker Slide Presentation: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight (w/audio)

ISPCS .com
Published on Oct 17, 2017

Benjamin Reed, Director of Commercial Crew Mission Management, SpaceX

Two American companies are on course, following their own unique paths to produce certified end-to-end crew transportation systems capable of flying astronauts to and from the International Space Station. Launch pads along Florida’s Space Coast have taken shape, spacecraft and launch vehicle hardware are being built and extensive qualification testing is under way for Boeing’s CST-100 Starliner and SpaceX’s Crew Dragon systems. The companies are working diligently and purposefully with NASA’s Commercial Crew Program and the astronauts selected to train to fly flight tests to the International Space Station to ensure the systems are meeting the agency’s certification requirements and adequately addressing all credible hazards, including pad emergencies, in-flight aborts and emergency landings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hgVWRDsolk?t=001

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Offline Ludus

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #1 on: 10/21/2017 05:23 AM »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?

Offline jpo234

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #2 on: 10/21/2017 10:59 AM »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Jcc

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #3 on: 10/21/2017 01:27 PM »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.

I think the question is whether block 5 will have redesigned legs, maybe similar to Blue Origin's design with thinner legs that can both extend and retract. The SpaceX design with wide carbon fiber legs was intended to provide aerobraking but they are never deployed early because that could cause aerodynamic instability, so the design is a bit suboptimal.

Offline SmallKing

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #4 on: 10/21/2017 01:41 PM »
AFAIK, the newly designed legs are very similar to those old legs from the appearance
« Last Edit: 10/21/2017 03:32 PM by SmallKing »
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Offline jpo234

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #5 on: 10/21/2017 05:02 PM »


Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.

I think the question is whether block 5 will have redesigned legs, maybe similar to Blue Origin's design with thinner legs that can both extend and retract. The SpaceX design with wide carbon fiber legs was intended to provide aerobraking but they are never deployed early because that could cause aerodynamic instability, so the design is a bit suboptimal.

I thought Ludus referred to the canceled Dragon legs and confused them with the F9 landing legs.
You want to be inspired by things. You want to wake up in the morning and think the future is going to be great. That's what being a spacefaring civilization is all about. It's about believing in the future and believing the future will be better than the past. And I can't think of anything more exciting than being out there among the stars.

Offline Roy_H

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #6 on: 12/19/2017 01:33 AM »
Are there still landing legs that get stowed on ascent, or did that line just get left in the slide after they made the change?
This is about the first stage landing legs. Of course they are still present. SpaceX is not going to throw away a perfectly good F9 Block 5 after a gentle LEO mission.

I think the question is whether block 5 will have redesigned legs, maybe similar to Blue Origin's design with thinner legs that can both extend and retract. The SpaceX design with wide carbon fiber legs was intended to provide aerobraking but they are never deployed early because that could cause aerodynamic instability, so the design is a bit suboptimal.

I never saw anything official about the legs being designed for aero-braking. There was a lot of speculation on this forum about using the legs for aero-braking which I thought was nonsense from the get-go for your stated reason.
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Is there any word on 39A's progress for Crew? Like the access arm?
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Offline 76794p

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #8 on: 12/19/2017 06:04 AM »
Is there any word on 39A's progress for Crew? Like the access arm?
I believe the plan is to install the crew access arm after Falcon Heavy launches.

Offline Norm38

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #9 on: 12/20/2017 02:05 AM »
I take it the same weight distribution that creates lift during rentry is responsible for its angle with respect to the water?  Don't really like the idea of opening that hatch in anything but calm seas. One big wave away from being flooded. Is that emergenc evac only?

Offline deruch

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #10 on: 12/20/2017 02:19 AM »
I take it the same weight distribution that creates lift during rentry is responsible for its angle with respect to the water?  Don't really like the idea of opening that hatch in anything but calm seas. One big wave away from being flooded. Is that emergenc evac only?
Where the diver is sitting isn't the hatch but the parachute compartment.  It's fine for that section to flood.  The hatch is above his head outlined in grey. 
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Online woods170

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #11 on: 12/20/2017 06:23 AM »
I take it the same weight distribution that creates lift during rentry is responsible for its angle with respect to the water?  Don't really like the idea of opening that hatch in anything but calm seas. One big wave away from being flooded. Is that emergenc evac only?
Where the diver is sitting isn't the hatch but the parachute compartment.  It's fine for that section to flood.  The hatch is above his head outlined in grey. 
Also, SOP is that the crew is to remain on-board until the capsule has been hoisted on board the recovery vessel. Only in an emergency will the crew pop the hatch and get out into life-rafts (Apollo style). Only than is actual support from the divers needed.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #12 on: 01/11/2018 09:03 PM »
So... umm... are Boeing still intending for Starliner to land on land with airbags or are they also being directed by NASA to only work water landings?
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Offline kevinof

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #13 on: 01/11/2018 09:08 PM »
airbags.

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #14 on: 01/11/2018 09:15 PM »
airbags.

Doesn't answer the question - they intend to use airbags on water landings too.

Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online gongora

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #15 on: 01/11/2018 09:18 PM »
airbags.

Doesn't answer the question - they intend to use airbags on water landings too.

on land with airbags

Offline yg1968

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #16 on: 01/18/2018 12:38 AM »
Here is the full presentation:


Online woods170

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #17 on: 01/18/2018 08:07 AM »
airbags.

Doesn't answer the question - they intend to use airbags on water landings too.

on land with airbags
And is approved by NASA given that they studied it to death for Orion. Remember, Orion was initially to land on land, with airbags. The very approach Boeing is using for Starliner now.

Online AncientU

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #18 on: 01/18/2018 01:34 PM »
So... umm... are Boeing still intending for Starliner to land on land with airbags or are they also being directed by NASA to only work water landings?

The hearings yesterday indicated Boeing land landings and ten reuses of capsule -- SpaceX all water landings and new capsule each time.  This is the problem of forgoing (innovative) land landings... and who pays for the new capsules?
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Online envy887

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Re: Commercial Crew: On Course to Purposeful Flight - ISPCS
« Reply #19 on: 01/18/2018 01:43 PM »
So... umm... are Boeing still intending for Starliner to land on land with airbags or are they also being directed by NASA to only work water landings?

The hearings yesterday indicated Boeing land landings and ten reuses of capsule -- SpaceX all water landings and new capsule each time.  This is the problem of forgoing (innovative) land landings... and who pays for the new capsules?

SpaceX has said many times that they don't factor reuse into the F9 business plan or price. I don't see why they would factor it into the Commercial Crew bid. $3.1 billion should cover 6 new vehicles.

Hans said they are building 4 vehicles already that will go to ISS: the uncrewed and crewed test vehicles, and the first two operational flight vehicles. They are going to want a number of vehicles in rotation anyway, even with reuse.

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