Author Topic: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017  (Read 39773 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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« Last Edit: 12/12/2017 04:48 PM by Chris Bergin »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #1 on: 09/13/2017 06:54 AM »
An update:
http://spacenews.com/blue-origin-enlarges-new-glenns-payload-fairing-preparing-to-debut-upgraded-new-shepard/

The NS for this flight has some differences from the last one:

Quote
The third New Shepard has modifications for improved reusability, he said, such as access panels that enable more rapid servicing in between flights. Blue Origin is also trying to improve New Shepard’s thermal protection.

Quote
Another major difference between the second and third versions include real capsule windows, Mowry said — the ones on version two were painted.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #2 on: 10/25/2017 09:30 PM »
Blue Origin still saying flight is this year:

Quote
Gunderson: we’ll be launching the human-rated version of New Shepard starting later this year. Intend to be flying people next yr. #vonbraun

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/923282708842909698

Offline Lars-J

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Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #3 on: 10/26/2017 05:24 AM »
It has already been over a year since the last flight (Oct 5, 2016), so hopefully they can get back in the saddle soon.

Online Bubbinski

Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #4 on: 12/07/2017 03:30 AM »
If New Shepard flight 7 is truly going to fly by the end of the year they’ve got 25 days to do it. Any indications or rumors of a flight being prepped? I just checked the NOTAMS page and found nothing from Albuquerque put out regarding spaceflight activity yet.
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Offline old_sellsword

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Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #5 on: 12/07/2017 03:51 AM »
If New Shepard flight 7 is truly going to fly by the end of the year they’ve got 25 days to do it. Any indications or rumors of a flight being prepped? I just checked the NOTAMS page and found nothing from Albuquerque put out regarding spaceflight activity yet.

There are indeed some rumors. User anthonycolangelo is the host of the Main Engine Cutoff podcast and is known to have connections in the industry.

Offline yg1968

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Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #7 on: 12/10/2017 02:46 AM »
This is another unmanned test flight?
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Offline Svetoslav

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« Last Edit: 12/10/2017 06:01 AM by Svetoslav »

Online TrevorMonty

Re: New Shepherd - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #9 on: 12/10/2017 08:59 AM »
This is another unmanned test flight?
Given it is first flight of this capsule most likely unmanned.

Offline ketivab

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #10 on: 12/10/2017 09:14 AM »
This is another unmanned test flight?
Given it is first flight of this capsule most likely unmanned.
Definitely unmanned. In October this year, BO CEO B. Smith said, that they are going to launch people to space in 18 months. I don't know if he was talking about tourists or test pilots, but looks like NET early 2019. I also heard the booster, which will launch this (7th) mission, will not launch people. BO is making another NS booster for manned flights.
Btw. this thread should be named New Shepard, not New Shepherd.
« Last Edit: 12/10/2017 09:14 AM by ketivab »

Offline ScaryDare

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #11 on: 12/10/2017 02:18 PM »
Here is the FAA issued TFR as denoted by the light orange circle.

Active time is 0830-1500 CST on Dec 11 from the surface to 99,900 feet AGL.

Gary

Online docmordrid

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #12 on: 12/10/2017 07:38 PM »
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
An FAA notice to airmen filed late today reserves airspace above Blue Origin’s West Texas test site “to provide a safe environment for rocket launch and recovery” starting Monday: http://bit.ly/2iILigF  (h/t @Leo_Spaceman_MD)

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/939645447894945793
 
Jeff Foust @jeff_foust
This would suggest Blue Origin is ready to resume New Shepard suborbital test flights, with new vehicles, after a hiatus of more than a year.
6:59 PM - Dec 9, 2017

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/939645661372395520

DM

Online Chris Bergin

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #13 on: 12/10/2017 10:44 PM »
No live webcast expected for this one I'm told. :(

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #14 on: 12/11/2017 04:41 PM »
Parabolicarc.com‏
@spacecom
 50s50 seconds ago
Report is #BlueOrigin #NewShepard launch set for 1 p.m. EST out of West Texas. Good luck!

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #15 on: 12/11/2017 04:52 PM »
Parabolicarc.com‏
@spacecom
 15s15 seconds ago
More
#BlueOrigin #NewShepard flight pushed back 1 hour to 2 p.m. EST.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #16 on: 12/11/2017 06:05 PM »
Parabolicarc.com‏
@spacecom
 38s38 seconds ago
More
#BlueOrigin #NewShepard scrubbed for the day. Reason unclear at the moment.

Online Bubbinski

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #17 on: 12/12/2017 01:00 PM »
Any word on any attempts today?
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #18 on: 12/12/2017 01:10 PM »
I haven't heard anything from my twitter or reddit sources so far. I'll be available this evening to write here if any news appear.

Online Bubbinski

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #19 on: 12/12/2017 03:49 PM »
As per Twitter delayed till tomorrow
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #20 on: 12/12/2017 04:17 PM »
Wrong.

Parabolicarc.com‏
@spacecom
 51s51 seconds ago
More
#NewShepard just took off....

Online Chris Bergin

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - Q4 2017
« Reply #21 on: 12/12/2017 04:47 PM »
Don't worry about the delay, I'm told it's a success!

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #22 on: 12/12/2017 04:50 PM »
Now... waiting for videos and photos, hopefully?

Online Bubbinski

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #23 on: 12/12/2017 04:54 PM »
Wrong.

Parabolicarc.com‏
@spacecom
 51s51 seconds ago
More
#NewShepard just took off....

Just saw that, the Twitter source was wrong. Hope New Shepard went well!
I'll even excitedly look forward to "flags and footprints" and suborbital missions. Just fly...somewhere.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #24 on: 12/12/2017 05:04 PM »
Just saw that, the Twitter source was wrong. Hope New Shepard went well!

No worry :) That's why I always post the twitter accound I get the information from :) I'm just the messenger :P

Offline deruch

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #25 on: 12/12/2017 05:25 PM »
Official confirmation on the test having taken place from FAA (nothing on success/failure): 
https://www.faa.gov/data_research/commercial_space_data/launches/?type=Licensed

Date                Payload                             Vehicle                      Company         Site
Dec 12, 2017    Blue Origin Crew Capsule    New Shepard System    Blue Origin    Texas
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline Olaf

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #26 on: 12/12/2017 06:36 PM »
https://www.geekwire.com/2017/blue-origin-launches-updated-version-new-shepard-suborbital-spaceship-test-flight/
Blue Origin launches updated New Shepard suborbital spaceship on test flight

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #27 on: 12/12/2017 07:32 PM »
Parabolicarc.com‏
@spacecom
 1m1 minute ago
More
Confirmation that #BlueOrigin #NewShepard had a successful flight in West Texas this morning. Both capsule and booster landed successfully.

Offline Prettz

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #28 on: 12/13/2017 12:56 AM »
Any idea why Blue is being so tight-lipped about this one? Not even so much as a tweet about it.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #29 on: 12/13/2017 03:05 AM »
Finally...

https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/940792988095139841

Complete with commentary as if it was webcast ;D

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #30 on: 12/13/2017 03:44 AM »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #31 on: 12/13/2017 03:45 AM »
"What's new about this one?"

"Really big windows."

"Cool, where's the picture from the inside?"

"We didn't get one of those."

???
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? Well... have you heard of Zeno's paradox?

Online Comga

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #32 on: 12/13/2017 03:57 AM »
"What's new about this one?"
"Really big windows."
"Cool, where's the picture from the inside?"
"We didn't get one of those."

 ???

Yup
“Live from ... west Texas”, half a day later
As for not really live, the dummy had a great ride, but he’s not talking either.
Or into taking selfies
“Ready to fly?” they ask people but can we ask When they will be ready to fly people?
Up. Down. Hover. Solid rocket braking to soften impact.
This neat stuff but not particularly breath taking

Edit: Put a helmet on the dummy with a GoPro and leave a pile of balls on the floor to float in zero G.
How hard would that have been?
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 04:01 AM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #33 on: 12/13/2017 04:07 AM »
Congratulations Blue Origin on another successful test flight. 1 mph capsule touchdown speed is impressive.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #34 on: 12/13/2017 04:36 AM »
Quote
[email protected] #NewShepard Mission 7 (M7) with first flight of Crew Capsule 2.0 included 12 suborbital research payloads: Crew Capsule reached apogee of 98.27 km AGL/99.37 km MSL, next generation booster reached apogee of 98.16 km AGL/99.27 km MSL

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/940805217439965186

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #35 on: 12/13/2017 04:47 AM »
Quote
[email protected]'s rocket test dummy was nicknamed "Mannequin Skywalker." Well played, @JeffBezos ... well played: https://www.geekwire.com/2017/blue-origin-launches-updated-version-new-shepard-suborbital-spaceship-test-flight/ #StarWarsTheLastJedi 

https://twitter.com/b0yle/status/940810092244545538

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #36 on: 12/13/2017 05:03 AM »
Quote
1/ Details on @blueorigin #NewShepard Mission 7 (M7) via fact sheet: carried 12 payloads & instrumented dummy named "Mannequin Skywalker"; Flight of 10 minutes 6 seconds, started 10:59 a.m. CT (8:59 a.m. PT) on 12 Dec 2017; booster went Mach 2.94 on ascent & Mach 3.74 on descent

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/940819139672895488

Quote
2/ Details on @blueorigin #NewShepard Mission 7 (M7) via fact sheet: carried 12 payloads & instrumented dummy named "Mannequin Skywalker"; Flight of 10 minutes 6 seconds, started 10:59 a.m. CT (8:59 a.m. PT) on 12 Dec 2017; booster went Mach 2.94 on ascent & Mach 3.74 on descent

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/940819376277770241

Offline jebbo

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #37 on: 12/13/2017 05:04 AM »
Looks like there is a camera visible inside the capsule, so I expect there is more video to come.

--- Tony

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #38 on: 12/13/2017 09:40 AM »
Ladies and gentlemen! This year Blue Origin sent to space ... a mannequinstronaut :)

I'd like to ask whether Mr. Bezos likes Anakin Skywalker from the Star Wars prequel. Per Urban Dictionary :  Mannequin Skywalker = "Derogatory name for Hayden Christensen's portrayal of Anakin Skywalker in the last two Star Wars prequel movies. Many consider his performance stiff and wooden, much like a store mannequin (hence the name). "

Whatever :) I find the name to be cool.

I'd like to remind that early Vostok spacecraft also used a mannequin which was named Ivan Ivanovich.

More here : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Ivanovich_(Vostok_programme)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #39 on: 12/13/2017 10:33 AM »
Capsule apogee is a few km less than on some previous flights, though given the payloads - and windows - I imagine somewhat heavier than previous flights. Or have Blue used ballast previously?

I wonder how much margin they have to push things further. It seems to be a long hold down after ignition and a notable hover before landing.

I assume they want to break 100 km with a full complement of passengers. Especially if that's better than SpaceShipTwo can manage ...

Online Kryten

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #40 on: 12/13/2017 10:47 AM »
 For the sake of completion here's the Blue email, though there's no new info.
Quote
New Shepard flew again for the seventh time today from Blue Origin’s West Texas Launch Site. Known as Mission 7 (M7), the mission featured the next-generation booster and the first flight of Crew Capsule 2.0. Watch the mission highlights here.

-Gradatim Ferociter!
[image here]
Crew Capsule 2.0 features large windows, measuring 2.4 feet wide, 3.6 feet tall.
The sender is listed as Blue Origin, rather than Jeff Bezos for the previous ones.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #41 on: 12/13/2017 11:27 AM »
Capsule apogee is a few km less than on some previous flights, though given the payloads - and windows - I imagine somewhat heavier than previous flights. Or have Blue used ballast previously?

I wonder how much margin they have to push things further. It seems to be a long hold down after ignition and a notable hover before landing.

I assume they want to break 100 km with a full complement of passengers. Especially if that's better than SpaceShipTwo can manage ...


I'm not sure that both companies will want to break the 100km barrier. It seems to me that they're comfortable with the 80km boundary used in the USA.

But for the sake of space tourism, it doesn't matter too much. I'll be happy if we finally have spaceships able to break... whatever definition of space. Just... let them flying :)

Offline woods170

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #42 on: 12/13/2017 11:38 AM »
Capsule apogee is a few km less than on some previous flights, though given the payloads - and windows - I imagine somewhat heavier than previous flights. Or have Blue used ballast previously?

I wonder how much margin they have to push things further. It seems to be a long hold down after ignition and a notable hover before landing.

I assume they want to break 100 km with a full complement of passengers. Especially if that's better than SpaceShipTwo can manage ...


I'm not sure that both companies will want to break the 100km barrier. It seems to me that they're comfortable with the 80km boundary used in the USA.
Which would restrict bragging rights of their customers to the USA given that the rest of the world recognizes the Karman line as the boundary of space.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 11:38 AM by woods170 »

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #43 on: 12/13/2017 11:56 AM »
We already had this discussion in Virgin Galactic's thread, so I don't know if there's anything more that could be said.

I still maintain that it's quite irrelevant whether I'll fly to 80km, 90 km, 99 km or just above 100 km. For the sake of experience and enterntainment, it doesn't matter too much.

For the sake of recognition... well, we're not professional astronauts anyway

Online saliva_sweet

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #44 on: 12/13/2017 12:01 PM »
Which would restrict bragging rights of their customers to the USA

Oh yeah. I'm gonna be so smug about how we in Europe don't bother with anything under 100 km, the real space. Americans should really learn a lesson or two.

Offline Darkseraph

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #45 on: 12/13/2017 12:04 PM »
Since these are just test flights and neither mannequins nor research payloads don't care about getting astronaut wings, they don't actually have to cross the Karman Line. The vehicles is certainly capable of doing so and has exceeded 100km in 5/7 flights. In future, many of the flights of the New Sheppard system might be unmanned suborbital research flights and it will not be too much of a concern for the research to exceed 100km.

Great to see New Sheppard back in action. Previous flights have had turn-around times as short as 6 weeks. I wonder how quickly this new improved system will be reflown.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." R.P.Feynman

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #46 on: 12/13/2017 12:06 PM »
Great to see New Sheppard back in action. Previous flights have had turn-around times as short as 6 weeks. I wonder how quickly this new improved system will be reflown.

Actually... I do wonder if they can conduct another flight before New Year :D :D :D

Offline jebbo

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #47 on: 12/13/2017 12:08 PM »
Great to see New Sheppard back in action. Previous flights have had turn-around times as short as 6 weeks. I wonder how quickly this new improved system will be reflown.

Good question, especially as I believe improved serviceability/turnaround was part of the upgrade. Though I suspect before New Year after a first flight might be optimistic ;)

--- Tony

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #48 on: 12/13/2017 12:14 PM »
I still hope for a powered flight of Virgin Galactic before New Year though... but it's their hiatus now which is strange... especially after promising to resume the test flight program this fall. I just hope it's not their engine again giving them trouble.

It would be nice to have each week activities by Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic. If (or when) that day comes, it will be a great day!

Online Chris Bergin

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #49 on: 12/13/2017 12:50 PM »
Great work on here to find the additional details! Put an article together for it. What a great name for the test dummy! ;D

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/12/blue-origin-skywalker-test-new-shepard/

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #50 on: 12/13/2017 01:38 PM »
This is the third New Shepard flight involving NanoRacks (I've obviously missed/forgotten about previous two!):

Quote
NanoRacks Integrates Largest New Shepard Payload Manifest to Date

Suborbital
December 13, 2017 //

Van Horn, Texas – December 8, 2017 – NanoRacks is pleased to have taken part in yet another successful Blue Origin New Shepard space vehicle mission. This morning marked New Shepard’s 7th flight, and the third flight in which NanoRacks has managed customer payload integration.

As a part of the NanoRacks teaming agreement with Blue Origin, the Company partakes in both business development and payload integration. Payload integration begins with customer service through the NanoRacks Mission Management team, and ends with final on-site integration with the customer at Blue Origin’s West Texas Launch Site (WTLS). Payloads range from small student NanoLabs flying in the NanoRacks Feather Frame to larger professional-grade payload lockers.

“It is exhilarating to be a part of the NanoRacks payload program, providing all types of researchers a unique microgravity opportunity,” says NanoRacks Payload Engineer Mariel Rico. Experiments that long for both a cost effective and quick turnaround for technology demonstration in a microgravity environment finally have a place to call their own. It is truly a privilege to work with both our friends at Blue Origin and our incredible team at NanoRacks, to make this opportunity possible.”

NanoRacks looks forward to growing the Company’s payload capacity on New Shepard, and is currently manufacturing a second Feather Frame for flight, doubling the total payload volume available for smaller educational customers.

“Educator interest in engaging their students with hands on space research has brought us to developing a second Feather Frame,” continues Rico. “This is just one more step in the growing in-space services that NanoRacks is able to offer, and of course, suborbital flights with Blue Origin offer the perfect testbed before committing to an International Space Station microgravity mission.”

To book a spot for your research on a Blue Origin flight, contact NanoRacks at [email protected]

http://nanoracks.com/nanoracks-integrates-largest-new-shepard-manifest/
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 01:39 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #51 on: 12/13/2017 01:50 PM »
I've been wondering if DLR flew experiments (previous publication: http://spacenews.com/dlr-to-fly-experiments-on-blue-origins-new-shepard/ ), as it was announced before.

Offline LaunchedIn68

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #52 on: 12/13/2017 02:03 PM »
Just watched the YT video that BO emailed me.  "The largest windows on a spacecraft to date".  Yet they can't put a camera in the 2.0 capsule???  ??? >:(
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Offline jebbo

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #53 on: 12/13/2017 02:07 PM »
If you look at the photos up thread, there's clearly a camera there. They just haven't released the video (yet)

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Offline Oersted

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #54 on: 12/13/2017 02:18 PM »
*Breathless commentator*: "A beautiful lift-off... LIVE from West Texas..."

Ehh, "live"? - Who are they trying to fool?

Grow some b*lls Blue Origin...

Offline hektor

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #55 on: 12/13/2017 02:20 PM »
Just watched the YT video that BO emailed me.  "The largest windows on a spacecraft to date".  Yet they can't put a camera in the 2.0 capsule???  ??? >:(

How do they compare to the ISS Cupola ?

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #56 on: 12/13/2017 02:26 PM »
How do they compare to the ISS Cupola ?

Uh... you really made me check... especially knowing how I hate working with imperial units..

The largest Cupola window, the circular top window, is 80 cm in diameter.

Blue Origin windows are listed as 2.4 feet wide, 3.6 feet tall, which means - 73 cms wide, 110 cms tall.

Offline Lar

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #57 on: 12/13/2017 02:39 PM »
Just watched the YT video that BO emailed me.  "The largest windows on a spacecraft to date".  Yet they can't put a camera in the 2.0 capsule???  ??? >:(

How do they compare to the ISS Cupola ?

Maybe for PR purposes that's not a "spacecraft" ?? (it is in space, it has attitude control and thrusters, seems like a spacecraft to me but what do I know?)
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #58 on: 12/13/2017 02:42 PM »
Depends on how you calculate size.

73cm x 110cm = 8030cm^2

3.14 x 40cm x 40cm = 5024cm^2

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #59 on: 12/13/2017 02:45 PM »
Well, it looks like a duck, swims like a duck and quacks like a duck - then it must be a duck :)

NS capsule maybe is in space, altitude control and thrusters, looks like a spacecraft.. but has no solar panels :) and, regretfully, it has also no toilet. Each manned spacecraft should have a toiled IMO (I'm deadly serious about that, as a person who frequently has problems on a bus ride).

A guy in our local Facebook group called NS "amusement park train" for the space tourist. Amusement trains won't take you to another station... but they're still called trains :)

Offline DarkenedOne

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #60 on: 12/13/2017 03:02 PM »
Was it just me or was the rocket take off surprisingly slow?

It really surprised me because I have ever seen a rocket take off  with such low acceleration.  I understand that they are aiming for a good passenger experience, so they would want to keep the G forces to a minimum.  Slow acceleration would explain why the capsule did not reach the altitude that it did before.  Personally I would think that moderate G-forces would give the system greater attraction.  I would think that the acceleration of the Shuttle which experienced a max G force of 3 would be acceptable. 

What do you guys think?  What would you consider to be an acceptable G force?

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #61 on: 12/13/2017 03:18 PM »
Landing seems one or more iterations behind SpaceX. Very slow, lots of fuel burn and a slight jump after landing.
Good enough for suborbital space tourism (they seem to have excess fuel), but a waste of fuel for orbital missions.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #62 on: 12/13/2017 03:34 PM »
Beyond photos, one thing I would like to know, once they reduce the data, is the “hang time”.
Perhaps a plot, preferably logarithmic, of the acceleration vs time.
From 1 to >>1 to <<1 to>1 and back to 1.
How long is the “zero gee” part of the flight?
How close to zero does it get?
Are there any hints in the abbreviated video?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Darkseraph

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #63 on: 12/13/2017 03:40 PM »
Landing seems one or more iterations behind SpaceX. Very slow, lots of fuel burn and a slight jump after landing.
Good enough for suborbital space tourism (they seem to have excess fuel), but a waste of fuel for orbital missions.

Or they have healthy margins built into the system, using a more efficient fuel and far better throttle capabilties. Their methodology so far seems to be to overbuild systems with redundancy so that they are robust and won't be destroyed in some of the hillarious ways featured in SpaceX's recent blooper reel. As enjoyable a spectacle as it is to watch, it doesn't pay the bills to explode or pancake boosters on the pad. 
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." R.P.Feynman

Offline GWH

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #64 on: 12/13/2017 03:46 PM »
Interesting way to use social media:
Put out mandatory NOTAM, knowing notice of your intent to fly will get out & be discussed.
Fly and land rocket & capsule, say nothing.
As rumours and speculation about whether or not there were issues say absolutely nothing.
Then, late in the evening when social media is in the middle of a frenzy about Alabama release a short video declaring mission success & brag about big windows. Don't show a view from the windows. Disingenuously dub in a voice over "live from west Texas".  Don't say or show anything that differentiates this test and video from the previous tests other than "next generation".
Done.

Bold strategy.
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 03:54 PM by GWH »

Offline IRobot

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #65 on: 12/13/2017 03:49 PM »
Landing seems one or more iterations behind SpaceX. Very slow, lots of fuel burn and a slight jump after landing.
Good enough for suborbital space tourism (they seem to have excess fuel), but a waste of fuel for orbital missions.

Or they have healthy margins built into the system, using a more efficient fuel and far better throttle capabilties. Their methodology so far seems to be to overbuild systems with redundancy so that they are robust

You can have healthy margins built into Falcon 9. But then you don't launch those big birds into GTO.

and won't be destroyed in some of the hillarious ways featured in SpaceX's recent blooper reel. As enjoyable a spectacle as it is to watch, it doesn't pay the bills to explode or pancake boosters on the pad.
My comment is that BE algorithm/mechanics looks grasshopper-like. Falcon 9 goes for a suicidal burn and quite successfully.  I don't understand your comment regarding "SpaceX's recent blooper reel". They have been extremely successful this past 1.5 years, beyond expectations. If not mistaken, 15 landings in a row!

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #66 on: 12/13/2017 04:01 PM »
I still maintain that it's quite irrelevant whether I'll fly to 80km, 90 km, 99 km or just above 100 km. For the sake of experience and enterntainment, it doesn't matter too much.

Just out of curiosity, at what point would it matter to you? 50 km? 25 km? 10 km? Lower yet?

Offline Darkseraph

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #67 on: 12/13/2017 04:13 PM »
Landing seems one or more iterations behind SpaceX. Very slow, lots of fuel burn and a slight jump after landing.
Good enough for suborbital space tourism (they seem to have excess fuel), but a waste of fuel for orbital missions.

Or they have healthy margins built into the system, using a more efficient fuel and far better throttle capabilties. Their methodology so far seems to be to overbuild systems with redundancy so that they are robust

You can have healthy margins built into Falcon 9. But then you don't launch those big birds into GTO.

and won't be destroyed in some of the hillarious ways featured in SpaceX's recent blooper reel. As enjoyable a spectacle as it is to watch, it doesn't pay the bills to explode or pancake boosters on the pad.
My comment is that BE algorithm/mechanics looks grasshopper-like. Falcon 9 goes for a suicidal burn and quite successfully.  I don't understand your comment regarding "SpaceX's recent blooper reel". They have been extremely successful this past 1.5 years, beyond expectations. If not mistaken, 15 landings in a row!


SpaceX released a video not so long ago catalogueing their early attempts to achieve and refine landing of stages, with lots of explosions and mishaps. The Falcon 9 lands how it does by necessity. It has to come down immediately or run out of propellant and spectacularly crash. New Shepard can perform its designed mission with extra propellant to hover and adjust on landing. That capability to make small refinements in position will also be important for Blue Moon where craft have to land on unprepared surfaces.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." R.P.Feynman

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #68 on: 12/13/2017 04:17 PM »
Congrats on a great flight, well done! 8)
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Offline launchwatcher

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #69 on: 12/13/2017 04:19 PM »
Was it just me or was the rocket take off surprisingly slow?

It really surprised me because I have {never?} seen a rocket take off  with such low acceleration.
Go watch a video of a Saturn V liftoff..
Quote
I understand that they are aiming for a good passenger experience, so they would want to keep the G forces to a minimum.  Slow acceleration would explain why the capsule did not reach the altitude that it did before.  Personally I would think that moderate G-forces would give the system greater attraction.  I would think that the acceleration of the Shuttle which experienced a max G force of 3 would be acceptable. 
Acceleration increases as you burn off fuel; the initial acceleration off the pad when tanks are full doesn't constrain the final acceleration when tanks are almost empty.   

The Saturn V is notable for having a relatively low thrust-to-weight ratio at liftoff and thus low initial acceleration.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #70 on: 12/13/2017 04:23 PM »
Nice to see:

Quote
Congratulations @JeffBezos and @blueorigin team from all at Virgin Galactic. A great flight and another good day for the commercial space industry

https://twitter.com/virgingalactic/status/940895736723656704

Offline tleski

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #71 on: 12/13/2017 04:37 PM »
SpaceX released a video not so long ago catalogueing their early attempts to achieve and refine landing of stages, with lots of explosions and mishaps. The Falcon 9 lands how it does by necessity. It has to come down immediately or run out of propellant and spectacularly crash. New Shepard can perform its designed mission with extra propellant to hover and adjust on landing. That capability to make small refinements in position will also be important for Blue Moon where craft have to land on unprepared surfaces.

It is yet to be seen if they can maintain these kind of margins on orbital flight, which they have to do before aiming for the moon. Unless they want to hitch a ride on a Falcon.

Offline IRobot

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #72 on: 12/13/2017 04:50 PM »
The Falcon 9 lands how it does by necessity. It has to come down immediately or run out of propellant and spectacularly crash. New Shepard can perform its designed mission with extra propellant to hover and adjust on landing. That capability to make small refinements in position will also be important for Blue Moon where craft have to land on unprepared surfaces.
In terms of hovering capabilities, both can do that. The difference is that BE's rocket hasn't shown yet that it can also do a suicidal burn as SpaceX.

For SpaceX, fuel margins are a function of payload and mission, not of landing capabilities. For BE, until demonstrated otherwise, fuel margins are always required.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #73 on: 12/13/2017 04:52 PM »
Since this thread is about New Shepard and New Shepard is a suborbital vehicle perhaps we can keep the SpaceX/SaturnV/New Glenn discussions to other threads?

Congratulations to BO on a successful test flight of their new capsule!  I must admit, it looks gorgeous.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #74 on: 12/13/2017 05:18 PM »
NEWS ADVISORY

Dec. 13, 2017

 

Two Embry-Riddle Research Payloads Traveled to Suborbital Space on Blue Origin’s New Shepard Rocket

Embry-Riddle experiments in space could help with cancer treatment

 DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. ­— For less than four minutes at the edge of space, T-cells from mice in an Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University experiment in partnership with the University of Texas Health Science Center and the Medical University of South Carolina were exposed to microgravity onboard a successful Blue Origin launch in the hope of one day finding new treatments for cancer.

 The payload from Embry-Riddle’s Daytona Beach Campus flew Dec. 12 on Blue Origin’s New Shepard space vehicle to assess how microgravity impacts the cellular processes of T-cells or T-lymphocytes, which develop from stem cells in the bone marrow and are key to the immune system.

 The suborbital rocket, launched from Blue Origin’s West Texas Launch Site, traveled about 62 miles or close to 330,000 feet above Earth carrying two payloads that Embry-Riddle students, faculty and alumni had a big hand in designing and building.

 The second Embry-Riddle payload is studying how microgravity affects genes that play a role in tumor growth. Embry-Riddle’s two experiments were part of 12 commercial, research and educational payloads onboard the first flight of Crew Capsule 2.0, which according to Blue Origin had the largest windows in space.  Known as Mission 7 (M7), the mission also featured the next-generation booster.

 “Today’s flight of New Shepard was a tremendous success. It marks the inaugural flight of our next-generation Crew Capsule as we continue step-by-step progress in our test flight program,” said Bob Smith, CEO, Blue Origin. “Congratulations to the entire Blue Origin team on a job well done and to our payload customers that gathered important data on the suborbital environment. Gradatim Ferociter.”

 In the first Embry-Riddle experiment, the CRExIM (Cell Research Experiment In Microgravity) suborbital NanoLab was a multidisciplinary effort between students and faculty in Embry-Riddle’s Spaceflight Operations degree program and Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering departments, who partnered with other teams from the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio and the Medical University of South Carolina.

 Dr. Pedro Llanos, Embry-Riddle’s assistant professor of Spaceflight Operations and principal investigator on the T-cell research, said the collaborative team worked around the clock for more than a year to prepare the suborbital payload with cultured T-cells.

 The payload of 12 tubes of T-cells, isolated from mice and grown in a laboratory, were exposed to microgravity, with different markers or cytokines added, for about 3.5 minutes. Cytokines are small proteins that are important in cell signaling.

 “These cytokines are not only capable of influencing T-cell behavior, but they are also being used in cancer therapy,” Llanos said. “We already know that microgravity dysregulates the immune system, but the precise mechanisms mediating this effect are not well understood.”

 “The scientific goal of this research is to get insights on how brief exposure to microgravity alters the landscape of different types of immune cells,” added Kristina Andrijauskaite, lead science Ph.D. student for the experiment at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio. “Since space allows us to mimic conditions more similar to what happens in the human body as compared to the lab settings, it is great that we have this opportunity to use microgravity as an important research platform.”

 The payload was designed and printed at Embry-Riddle’s Daytona Beach Campus Engineering Physics Propulsion Lab and was housed in a 3D printed structure (10 cm x 10 cm x 20 cm in size). The payload underwent structural testing under different conditions of vibration and motion to assess its survivability. Dr. Sathya Gangadharan, professor of Mechanical Engineering, advised the engineering team with the design of the structure of the payload.

 “I’m very glad that Embry-Riddle is pioneering this new era of cancer cell research from a biomedical engineering perspective and utilizing its past experiences in microgravity to bring solutions to problems that are critical to the medical field,” Gangadharan said.

Embry-Riddle Ph.D. student Vijay Vishal Duraisamy, lead engineering student on the experiment, helped develop the NanoLab structure while also testing and integrating the T-cell payload with other members of the team.

 “This launch gives us important data and insight on the performance aspects of our payload design,” Duraisamy said. “Moreover, as a student it is highly motivating to be a part of a challenging project that involves space applications.”

 Llanos added, “With this suborbital research project, we are nurturing future scientists, technologists, engineers, and mathematicians with enthusiasm to a deeper level that will help them propel their careers.”

 The second experiment involving Embry-Riddle is studying the effect of a brief period of microgravity on the expression of genes that play a role in tumor growth.  Dr. Jennifer Thropp, assistant professor of Graduate Studies for Embry-Riddle’s Daytona Beach Campus and principal investigator on the Suborbital Oncologic Gene Expression payload, said the experiment, which is a collaboration with Grand Canyon University and Thermo Fisher Scientific, consists of two modified flasks that were seeded with osteosarcoma cells.

 Syringes containing RNAlater were attached to each flask and their contents were deployed just before the onset of microgravity (in the case of the experimental control flask) and just after its completion (in the case of the experimental test flask). Now that the mission is complete, the samples will be analyzed via reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) to determine how the expression of the genes has changed.

 Embry-Riddle alumnus Will Jaeger was the primary engineer responsible for the design of the Suborbital Oncologic Gene Expression payload hardware.

 “Previous research has shown that microgravity could potentially have an anti-cancerous effect; however, these studies have been done on orbital and parabolic flights, but not on a suborbital flight,” said Thropp, who is the statistician on this experiment, comparing the results of the suborbital flight to those from previous studies that were conducted during orbital and parabolic flights.

 The New Shepard vertical takeoff and vertical landing vehicle is capable of carrying hundreds of pounds of payloads per flight and will ultimately carry six astronauts to altitudes beyond 100 kilometers, the internationally recognized boundary of space.

 Blue Origin was established by Amazon CEO and founder Jeff Bezos with a bold vision to seed an enduring human presence in space. In November 2015, Blue Origin’s New Shepard rocket became the first to fly to space and return to Earth via vertical landing.

 

Media Contact: Deborah Circelli, Communications Specialist, Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, 600 S. Clyde Morris Blvd., Daytona Beach, Fla.; [email protected]; Office: (386) 323-8288

 ABOUT EMBRY-RIDDLE AERONAUTICAL UNIVERSITY

Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University, the world’s largest, fully accredited university specializing in aviation and aerospace, is a nonprofit, independent institution offering more than 80 baccalaureate, master’s and Ph.D. degree programs in its colleges of Arts & Sciences, Aviation, Business, Engineering and Security & Intelligence. Embry-Riddle educates students at residential campuses in Daytona Beach, Fla., and Prescott, Ariz., through the Worldwide Campus with more than 125 locations in the United States, Europe, Asia and the Middle East, and through online programs. The university is a major research center, seeking solutions to real-world problems in partnership with the aerospace industry, other universities and government agencies. For more information, visit www.embryriddle.edu, follow us on Twitter (@EmbryRiddle) and facebook.com/EmbryRiddleUniversity, and find expert videos at YouTube.com/EmbryRiddleUniv.

Offline GWH

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #75 on: 12/13/2017 05:59 PM »
It looks like they have added a 2nd stair tower and interconnecting catwalk since last year.  Presumably for passenger access?  Good signs of being closer to manned flight.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #76 on: 12/13/2017 06:08 PM »
Was it just me or was the rocket take off surprisingly slow?

It really surprised me because I have {never?} seen a rocket take off  with such low acceleration.
Go watch a video of a Saturn V liftoff..
Quote
I understand that they are aiming for a good passenger experience, so they would want to keep the G forces to a minimum.  Slow acceleration would explain why the capsule did not reach the altitude that it did before.  Personally I would think that moderate G-forces would give the system greater attraction.  I would think that the acceleration of the Shuttle which experienced a max G force of 3 would be acceptable. 
Acceleration increases as you burn off fuel; the initial acceleration off the pad when tanks are full doesn't constrain the final acceleration when tanks are almost empty.   

The Saturn V is notable for having a relatively low thrust-to-weight ratio at liftoff and thus low initial acceleration.
That’s often been stated but actually not true. Saturn V lifts off pretty fast, it’s just very big so it LOOKS slow until it clears the tower. But that tower is over 100m tall so quite a difference to the much smaller NS lifting off.

I also wondered how low their acceleration must have been because they reported that the booster reached higher velocity on the way down which means average acceleration must have been below 1G. That’s really pretty low.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #77 on: 12/13/2017 07:24 PM »
Just out of curiosity, at what point would it matter to you? 50 km? 25 km? 10 km? Lower yet?

I said, when it comes to tourism, the achieved height is secondary to the overall experience.

I had more joy flying with a motorized deltatrike just about 1 km above the surface, compared to a commercial airliner at 10 km above the Earth.

Same goes to suborbital spaceflight. I'll gladly fly in a BO spaceship close to the Karman line with huge windows even if it's 500 meters short to space, rather than in a similar vehicle with lesser luxuries.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #78 on: 12/13/2017 07:49 PM »
Capsule apogee is a few km less than on some previous flights, though given the payloads - and windows - I imagine somewhat heavier than previous flights. Or have Blue used ballast previously?

I wonder how much margin they have to push things further. It seems to be a long hold down after ignition and a notable hover before landing.

I assume they want to break 100 km with a full complement of passengers. Especially if that's better than SpaceShipTwo can manage ...


I'm not sure that both companies will want to break the 100km barrier. It seems to me that they're comfortable with the 80km boundary used in the USA.
Which would restrict bragging rights of their customers to the USA given that the rest of the world recognizes the Karman line as the boundary of space.
Do VG and Blue have credible competition for 2018? Anything before 2025? I imagine that over time performance will improve but until there is some other game in town this seems like the most space flighty experience available.

And the bragging rights seem pretty tenuous as a customer.  These are amazing machines and useful for microgravity but as far as HSF goes it's a rollercoaster.  I don't mean that in a disparaging way but the accomplishment is being able to afford it and having the courage to ride it.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #79 on: 12/13/2017 09:06 PM »
Quote
Dec. 13, 2017

NASA Funds Flight for Space Medical Technology on Blue Origin

Blue Origin successfully launched its New Shepard reusable space vehicle on Dec. 12 carrying a medical technology that could potentially treat chest trauma in a space environment.

The New Shepard reusable vertical takeoff and vertical landing space vehicle was launched with the experimental technology from Blue Origin’s West Texas launch site.  In addition to NASA funding non-government researchers to fly payloads, Blue Origin is a Flight Opportunities program launch provider for government payloads. The Flight Opportunities program, is managed under NASA’s Space Technology Mission Directorate (STMD).

“This flight marks the first of many Flight Opportunities’ flights of payloads with Blue Origin,” said Ryan Dibley, NASA Flight Opportunities campaign manager for Blue Origin. “New Shepard brings new capabilities to the program. This launch platform allows for larger payloads, provides lower launch accelerations, and maintains a sealed pressure environment.”

With NASA funding to support the flight cost, the Evolved Medical Microgravity Suction Device technology was developed by Charles Marsh Cuttino and his team at Orbital Medicine, Inc. in Richmond, Virginia.

The device could potentially assist in treating accidents such as a collapsed lung where air and blood enter the pleural cavity. The payload was constructed in collaboration with the Purdue University of Aeronautics and Astronautics in Indiana.

Currently astronauts and cosmonauts have to return to Earth quickly for medical treatment should an incident arise with chest trauma on the International Space Station. Collapsed lungs are treated on Earth with gravity dependent collectors that will not work in space. 

“My hope is that in the future, this type of medical device will be able to save the life of an astronaut, to continue their mission of exploration,” said Dr. Cuttino. “These types of medical treatment options could be required to explore the Moon and Mars.”

The new technology has a suction system that collects the blood in microgravity and allows for the lungs to continuously inflate as well as store blood for transfusion. The device also has a pneumothorax simulator, which simulates an injured person and shows how the device removes the air and blood to promote healing. 

Orbital Medicine’s suction device technology was selected in Nov. 2015 under a NASA Research Announcement: Space Technology Research and Development, Demonstration and Infusion, or Space Technology REDDI-2015. The device has already flown on parabolic flights with past program funding. 

Through the Flight Opportunities program, STMD selects promising technologies from industry, academia and government for testing on commercial launch vehicles. The Flight Opportunities program is funded by STMD, and managed at NASA's Armstrong Flight Research Center in Edwards, California.

STMD is responsible for developing the crosscutting, pioneering, new technologies and capabilities needed by the agency to achieve its current and future missions.

For more information about the Flight Opportunities Program, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/directorates/spacetech/flight_opportunities/index.html

For more information about the Space Technology Mission Directorate, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/spacetech

Leslie Williams
NASA Armstrong Flight Research Center

https://www.nasa.gov/feature/nasa-funds-flight-for-space-medical-technology-on-blue-origin

Offline mme

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #80 on: 12/13/2017 11:14 PM »
Just out of curiosity, at what point would it matter to you? 50 km? 25 km? 10 km? Lower yet?

I said, when it comes to tourism, the achieved height is secondary to the overall experience.

I had more joy flying with a motorized deltatrike just about 1 km above the surface, compared to a commercial airliner at 10 km above the Earth.

Same goes to suborbital spaceflight. I'll gladly fly in a BO spaceship close to the Karman line with huge windows even if it's 500 meters short to space, rather than in a similar vehicle with lesser luxuries.

I don't know man.  I think it would be pretty cool to officially be an astronaut.  I would not be happy to get up to 98 km.  Honestly if you going to go > 98% of the way there why not go all the way.
You are in luck.  Texas is in the US and in the US if you get higher than 80 km you are officially eligible for astronaut wings.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Online Chris Bergin

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #81 on: 12/13/2017 11:16 PM »
Let's not dilute a good thread with lazy posts. Small trim, could have gone further. This thread is about this event, not your personal ramblings about general space tourism and the (I agree) weak qualification of becoming an "astronaut" on this suborbital ride.

So let's focus on the thread, which is about the event.

Good day to you sir! ;D
« Last Edit: 12/13/2017 11:18 PM by Chris Bergin »

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #82 on: 12/13/2017 11:48 PM »
Hope Chris B doesn't mind if I add a couple of facts to the earlier discussion - Blue advertise NS as going above 100km on their website - "Following a thrilling launch, you’ll soar over 100 km above Earth – beyond the internationally recognized edge of space." - so we can safely say they're planning on it. Secondly, the first launch of the second PM (the first one to land) got to 100.5km, whilst the third got to over 103. So there's a fairly decent chance they were taking it relatively easy on the first trip up for this booster and capsule, and plan to increase the height in subsequent tests.

Great to see it fly again, congrats to Blue and hopefully they can really up the flight right with this booster.

Offline rockets4life97

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #83 on: 12/14/2017 02:42 AM »
Is this capsule ready to fly crew? Or is it still a prototype with missing systems?

Online ZachS09

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #84 on: 12/14/2017 03:10 AM »
Is this capsule ready to fly crew? Or is it still a prototype with missing systems?

No. This capsule is yet another testbed for manned suborbital spaceflights. The third model to be produced will be man-rated.
"Liftoff of Falcon 9: the world's first reflight of an orbital-class rocket."

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #85 on: 12/14/2017 03:32 AM »
Is this capsule ready to fly crew? Or is it still a prototype with missing systems?

No, if you're looking for direct "from drawing board to manned flight", that's here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=39372.0

:)
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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #86 on: 12/14/2017 03:58 AM »
Quote
[email protected] #NewShepard Mission 7 (M7) with first flight of Crew Capsule 2.0 included 12 suborbital research payloads: Crew Capsule reached apogee of 98.27 km AGL/99.37 km MSL, next generation booster reached apogee of 98.16 km AGL/99.27 km MSL

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/940805217439965186

OK, surprised to see two altitudes given. One is AGL (Above Ground Level) or the height above the ground and MSL (Mean Sea Level). At the launch site AGL is 1.1 km above MSL. We have that the Karman Line is defined as 100 km above MSL. However, as the Earth is not spherical, being 21.385 km flatter at the poles, this means that the Karman line is also not a uniform sphere, since the MSL follows the Earth's surface. So, someone who launches 100 km above MSL at the equator, travels 21.385 km further into space then someone who launches 100 km above sea level from the poles, thanks to the Earth's equatorial bulge.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #87 on: 12/14/2017 01:46 PM »
NEWS ADVISORY

Dec. 13, 2017

Two Embry-Riddle Research Payloads Traveled to Suborbital Space on Blue Origin’s New Shepard Rocket

Embry-Riddle experiments in space could help with cancer treatment
(snip)
 The payload of 12 tubes of T-cells, isolated from mice and grown in a laboratory, were exposed to microgravity, with different markers or cytokines added, for about 3.5 minutes. Cytokines are small proteins that are important in cell signaling.
(snip)

So 3.5 min of microgravity, about 210 sec

That's about a 55 km high arc, with the approximation that engine cutoff and atmospheric entry are about the same altitudes. 

Also, given the max speed of >1000 m/s, every second of hover they can do without, or take from reserves, and use for sustaining the boost, will gain them more than another kilometer of max altitude.  That says NS will make 100 km and all this "is it high enough" banter becomes moot.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2017 01:46 PM by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #88 on: 12/14/2017 02:38 PM »
Quote
[email protected] #NewShepard Mission 7 (M7) with first flight of Crew Capsule 2.0 included 12 suborbital research payloads: Crew Capsule reached apogee of 98.27 km AGL/99.37 km MSL, next generation booster reached apogee of 98.16 km AGL/99.27 km MSL

https://twitter.com/ac_charania/status/940805217439965186

OK, surprised to see two altitudes given. One is AGL (Above Ground Level) or the height above the ground and MSL (Mean Sea Level). At the launch site AGL is 1.1 km above MSL. We have that the Karman Line is defined as 100 km above MSL. However, as the Earth is not spherical, being 21.385 km flatter at the poles, this means that the Karman line is also not a uniform sphere, since the MSL follows the Earth's surface. So, someone who launches 100 km above MSL at the equator, travels 21.385 km further into space then someone who launches 100 km above sea level from the poles, thanks to the Earth's equatorial bulge.

I presume you meant "fatter", not "flatter". Generally speaking, the Earth is flatter at the poles and more curved at the equator.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #89 on: 12/14/2017 11:40 PM »
Here is the video with inside view:  8)  8)  8)


https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/941465587049406464
Quote
Jeff Bezos @JeffBezos
Full video of Mannequin Skywalker’s ride to space. Unlike him, you’ll be able to get out of your seat during the zero gee part of the flight. And ignore the pinging sound – it’s just from one of the experiments on this flight. #NewShepard @blueorigin 



This makes me want to go right now - Looks amazing.
« Last Edit: 12/14/2017 11:42 PM by Lars-J »

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #90 on: 12/15/2017 01:23 AM »
Nice catch Lars, well done!
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Online Comga

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #91 on: 12/15/2017 01:34 AM »
Nice
Reminiscent of this summer’s eclipse. About the same duration for “main event”, the free fall part.
Deep dark skies, a very different perspective on the world. Then back to “normal”
Looks extremely stable and smooth but with the camera bolted solidly there isn’t much visible to show disturbances.
A few things floating around until about 5:20 when they begin to settle gently. Their quiescent floating indicates high quality microgravity.
I still think they should Have had a few ping pong balls to float around.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline GWH

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #92 on: 12/15/2017 03:58 AM »
Also their landing pad bot "Blue2D2".

https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/941467037905272833

This additional media release is much better! Agreed about that view, incredible.

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #93 on: 12/15/2017 06:38 AM »
Also their landing pad bot "Blue2D2".

https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/941467037905272833

This additional media release is much better! Agreed about that view, incredible.

 Video attached

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #94 on: 12/15/2017 06:50 AM »
So at touchdown at about 10:05 in the inside view video I didn’t detect any retro firing to cushion the landing. Was this landing just on parachutes? Or maybe my hearing’s not too good ...

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #95 on: 12/15/2017 06:54 AM »
Can I sign up for free? I'll gladly be the test dummy in the capsule next time.

Offline Lars-J

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #96 on: 12/15/2017 07:38 AM »
So at touchdown at about 10:05 in the inside view video I didn’t detect any retro firing to cushion the landing. Was this landing just on parachutes? Or maybe my hearing’s not too good ...

Oh there certainly was retro fire (that’s what primarily kicks up the dust), otherwise it would have been a rough impact. But it appears to be tuned very well.

Offline EgorBotts

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #97 on: 12/15/2017 08:06 AM »
So at touchdown at about 10:05 in the inside view video I didn’t detect any retro firing to cushion the landing. Was this landing just on parachutes? Or maybe my hearing’s not too good ...

Oh there certainly was retro fire (that’s what primarily kicks up the dust), otherwise it would have been a rough impact. But it appears to be tuned very well.



Oh yes there was a retro fire. We can see the dust flying around while landing seems like on a cushion. Above is the video including a Soyuz landing. Certainly looks a lot more rough...

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #98 on: 12/15/2017 09:25 AM »
https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/941465587049406464
Quote
Jeff Bezos @JeffBezos
Full video of Mannequin Skywalker’s ride to space. Unlike him, you’ll be able to get out of your seat during the zero gee part of the flight. And ignore the pinging sound – it’s just from one of the experiments on this flight. #NewShepard @blueorigin 
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

« Last Edit: 12/15/2017 09:27 AM by rpapo »
An Apollo fanboy . . . fifty years ago.

Online TrevorMonty

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #99 on: 12/15/2017 10:35 AM »
Given industrial looking interior I guessing this capsule is only for experiments. No3 capsule is likely to be crew capsule with nice interior.

Offline Prettz

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #100 on: 12/15/2017 02:00 PM »
Also their landing pad bot "Blue2D2".

https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/941467037905272833

This additional media release is much better! Agreed about that view, incredible.
It looks confused.

Offline IanThePineapple

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #101 on: 12/15/2017 02:02 PM »
Also their landing pad bot "Blue2D2".

https://twitter.com/JeffBezos/status/941467037905272833

This additional media release is much better! Agreed about that view, incredible.
It looks confused.

It looks just to be a camera bot to do a quick lookaround.

Offline Craftyatom

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #102 on: 12/15/2017 03:36 PM »
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

As Trevor mentioned, this capsule appears to have an unfinished interior, especially with all those open bolts around the windows (I almost wonder if 10 minutes is enough time to undo them all).

Here's a concept design Blue released a while back, which shows full interior finish and screens visible to each passenger, which would presumably have altitude and velocity.  Hopefully the FOD issues will also be helped by a better finish, but that's not a guarantee.
All aboard the HSF hype train!  Choo Choo!

Offline Lars-J

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New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #103 on: 12/15/2017 05:44 PM »
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

Yeah, I refuse to go until these critical items are addressed! Unacceptable! :p
« Last Edit: 12/15/2017 05:45 PM by Lars-J »

Online rpapo

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #104 on: 12/15/2017 05:47 PM »
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

Yeah, I refuse to go until these critical items are addressed! Unacceptable! :p
Oh, and I forgot.  An accelerometer for g-forces.  We could tell when zero-g started and when it ended from the floating motes, but we go no sense of the accelerations from the video.

Of course, a real nerd could take the derivative of the velocimeter readings...
An Apollo fanboy . . . fifty years ago.

Offline high road

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #105 on: 12/15/2017 06:06 PM »
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

Yeah, I refuse to go until these critical items are addressed! Unacceptable! :p
Oh, and I forgot.  An accelerometer for g-forces.  We could tell when zero-g started and when it ended from the floating motes, but we go no sense of the accelerations from the video.

Of course, a real nerd could take the derivative of the velocimeter readings...

Well, what I need is a pricetag, to know how long I need to save up. Daaamn that looks fun. And scary. That sound is amazing! I hope those suits come with built-in diapers and barfbags, especially after seeing all that stuff float around in there.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #106 on: 12/15/2017 07:28 PM »
Crewed vehicles with ECLSS will have cabin ventilation with screens that catch debris in the airflow in micro-gravity...
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Online TrevorMonty

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #107 on: 12/15/2017 07:31 PM »
The flight experiment capsule offers a totally new opportunity for zeroG experiment. Till now it has been few seconds in plane, few minutes in very small unpressurized high launch G sounding rocket or ISS. NG gives a few minutes of zeroG in large pressurized environment, low launch G with option of human operator. For 1000s dollar and flight opportunities every few months or weeks and maybe days in future.

Its not just limited to experiments, there may well be commercial  manufacturing.

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #108 on: 12/15/2017 08:08 PM »
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

Yeah, I refuse to go until these critical items are addressed! Unacceptable! :p
Oh, and I forgot.  An accelerometer for g-forces.  We could tell when zero-g started and when it ended from the floating motes, but we go no sense of the accelerations from the video.

Of course, a real nerd could take the derivative of the velocimeter readings...
Speaking of which, I was hearing soft beeping throughout flight. Maybe that was encoded telemetry, as is available on amateur rocketry avionics packages. Anyone recognize any of the beep patterns?
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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #109 on: 12/15/2017 08:10 PM »
Needs the following, at least:

(1) Better FOD cleaning beforehand.  While it was good (for this video) to see flakes of stuff floating around in the air in zero-G, I wouldn't want that stuff going up my nose.

(2) An altimeter and a velocimeter visible to the passenger.

As Trevor mentioned, this capsule appears to have an unfinished interior, especially with all those open bolts around the windows (I almost wonder if 10 minutes is enough time to undo them all).

Here's a concept design Blue released a while back, which shows full interior finish and screens visible to each passenger, which would presumably have altitude and velocity.  Hopefully the FOD issues will also be helped by a better finish, but that's not a guarantee.

Here are some of the stats displayed on the passenger screen at the Demo displayed at OshKosh 2017

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #110 on: 12/15/2017 08:25 PM »
Here is a side by side comparison between Oshkosh and flight 7. Interesting to me how the seats appear to be different. The display seat may be just a show piece.  Here I was thinking at least i got to sit in a seat "like" the one going into space. 

There doesn't appear to be abort motor structure either.

(blacked out the unsuspecting strangers face)

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #111 on: 12/15/2017 09:25 PM »
The abort motor would be optional for unmanned experiment capsule. Trade, risk losing expensive capsule against extra paying payloads.

Offline deruch

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #112 on: 12/16/2017 03:28 AM »
Speaking of which, I was hearing soft beeping throughout flight. Maybe that was encoded telemetry, as is available on amateur rocketry avionics packages. Anyone recognize any of the beep patterns?

According to Bezos' tweet that beeping was from a payload, and not directly from the capsule.
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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #113 on: 12/16/2017 03:39 AM »

Here are some of the stats displayed on the passenger screen at the Demo displayed at OshKosh 2017

Altitude in feet, velocity in Mach number, acceleration in g’s, and the Von Karman line in km.
America at its finest: civilian rocket technology and a hodgepodge of units
Maybe they will give the passengers a zero-g abacus to convert the altitude from kft to km so they can celebrate passing 100.
I hope they have an Imperial tonne of fun.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Oersted

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #114 on: 12/16/2017 09:23 PM »
Agreed about that view, incredible.

But the best thing about this video are the amazing sounds! - Makes it feel like being there.

Really great vid.

Offline Norm38

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #115 on: 12/17/2017 03:20 AM »
What altitude is it at 2:30 in the interior video?  That's where the sky goes completely black. Which means that is "space" for the layperson.

2:30 to 6:00 is space.
« Last Edit: 12/17/2017 07:32 AM by Norm38 »

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #116 on: 12/17/2017 03:58 AM »
Interesting way to use social media:
Put out mandatory NOTAM, knowing notice of your intent to fly will get out & be discussed.
Fly and land rocket & capsule, say nothing.
As rumours and speculation about whether or not there were issues say absolutely nothing.
Then, late in the evening when social media is in the middle of a frenzy about Alabama release a short video declaring mission success & brag about big windows. Don't show a view from the windows.
Almost exactly what Sierra Nevada did with Dream Chaser ALT-2. That was a long day waiting for confirmation and images/video.


Disingenuously dub in a voice over "live from west Texas".  Don't say or show anything that differentiates this test and video from the previous tests other than "next generation".
Done.

Bold strategy.

The broadcast could have been going out in real time to select, interested parties, like the BO crew in Washington, investors, etc., thus "Live from West Texas" would have been appropriate.

Anyone can do the job when things are going right. In this business we play for keeps.
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #117 on: 12/18/2017 03:46 PM »
Quote
Ashby: Capsule has full ECLSS (life support) and triple redundancy.  All-envelope pusher escape system. Flawless flight last week. #NSRC2017

https://twitter.com/rand_simberg/status/942791293238996992

Quote
Ashby showing sensed acceleration, max 5G at about 400 seconds into flight. A little over three minutes of microgravity. #NSRC2017

https://twitter.com/rand_simberg/status/942792913196634117
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 03:47 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline scdavis

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #118 on: 12/18/2017 05:04 PM »
But the best thing about this video are the amazing sounds! - Makes it feel like being there.

Agreed! There's a lot of rich data in the audio. Could we make an attempt at a timeline of the video listing events that can be seen or heard? There were a bunch of unusual sounds which I couldn't place. The gas thruster sound was obvious after a while. Others were harder... for instance, can a turbo pump startup sequence sound like a rough internal combustion engine starting?? I heard what sounded like a pickup truck starting a few times ;-)

We ought to be able to identify the moment of release from the first stage, engine start/stops, parachute deployment(s), etc. Unfortunately I don't know enough about this vehicle or rocket engine sounds in general to make a firm guess about much.

If we could make a timeline, I bet someone could add closed captions to the video in sync with events... that would be awesome!

-- Scott

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #119 on: 12/19/2017 05:22 PM »
...the best thing about this video are the amazing sounds! - Makes it feel like being there.

Had I been there, I would have unstrapped and ripped the power cord off of whatever was doing that incessant, constant, infernal beeping.

I want to feel like I'm going into space, not like I'm working a submarine sonar by ear... :(
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline e of pi

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #120 on: 12/20/2017 01:03 PM »
Had I been there, I would have unstrapped and ripped the power cord off of whatever was doing that incessant, constant, infernal beeping.

I want to feel like I'm going into space, not like I'm working a submarine sonar by ear... :(
Given that was one of the (paying?) customer science payloads, I'd imagine that'd be heavily discouraged.

Offline hektor

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #121 on: 12/20/2017 01:11 PM »
Interesting
...the best thing about this video are the amazing sounds! - Makes it feel like being there.

Had I been there, I would have unstrapped and ripped the power cord off of whatever was doing that incessant, constant, infernal beeping.

I want to feel like I'm going into space, not like I'm working a submarine sonar by ear... :(

This raises the interesting question : will there be someone from Blue Origin on board to prevent you from doing that ? Or will the passengers be on their own ?

Offline EgorBotts

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #122 on: 12/20/2017 01:59 PM »
When they did the PR operation with the New Shepard visits in Colorado Springs they said it was for 6 tourists, unsupervised. But they will be trained.

Offline hektor

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #123 on: 12/20/2017 02:58 PM »
I guess they cannot do much damage to the mission. I assuming you cannot interact with the GNC or the access hatch in flight. They could just do damage to the payload or to each other.
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 02:59 PM by hektor »

Offline high road

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #124 on: 12/21/2017 01:19 PM »
I guess they cannot do much damage to the mission. I assuming you cannot interact with the GNC or the access hatch in flight. They could just do damage to the payload or to each other.

At 5G, that can be quite a lot.

Offline ugordan

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #125 on: 12/21/2017 01:38 PM »
Any idea why the acceleration peaks out at highish 5 Gs? I'd have imagined they'd prefer something like 3 Gs for tourist flights.

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #126 on: 12/21/2017 02:34 PM »
...the best thing about this video are the amazing sounds! - Makes it feel like being there.

Had I been there, I would have unstrapped and ripped the power cord off of whatever was doing that incessant, constant, infernal beeping.

I want to feel like I'm going into space, not like I'm working a submarine sonar by ear... :(
It's the "sound of space" Doug, haven't you watched Marooned? ;D
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
~Rob: Physics instructor, Aviator, Vintage auto racer

Offline Lars-J

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #127 on: 12/21/2017 02:39 PM »
Any idea why the acceleration peaks out at highish 5 Gs? I'd have imagined they'd prefer something like 3 Gs for tourist flights.

Practicality and the laws of physics? With a mass efficient capsule (no wings) and an straight up/down trajectory, they are limited in what they can do. 

Offline ugordan

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #128 on: 12/21/2017 02:43 PM »
Any idea why the acceleration peaks out at highish 5 Gs? I'd have imagined they'd prefer something like 3 Gs for tourist flights.

Practicality and the laws of physics? With a mass efficient capsule (no wings) and an straight up/down trajectory, they are limited in what they can do. 

Perhaps, but then they are "wasting" propellant for that hover landing. Seems like a weird trade to make for me especially since they're not aiming at specially trained people for flights. 5 Gs might be more than Starliner and Dragon 2 will experience on ascent and they're going to orbit!

Offline zlynn1990

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #129 on: 12/21/2017 02:59 PM »
The booster's hover landing has nothing to do with the forces on the capsule since they separate long before that. They haven't detailed what the training process will be like to fly on New Shepherd, but 5Gs peak isn't that bad if it's short duration.

Offline ugordan

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #130 on: 12/21/2017 03:11 PM »
The booster's hover landing has nothing to do with the forces on the capsule since they separate long before that.

Lars was alluding at total performance available from the booster so it would have something to do with it. I will grant that the delta-V cost of that hover landing might be lower than any gravity loss hit if limiting ascent to say 3 Gs, but haven't done any BOTE calc myself.

Online envy887

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #131 on: 12/21/2017 03:19 PM »
The booster's hover landing has nothing to do with the forces on the capsule since they separate long before that.

Lars was alluding at total performance available from the booster so it would have something to do with it. I will grant that the delta-V cost of that hover landing might be lower than any gravity loss hit if limiting ascent to say 3 Gs, but haven't done any BOTE calc myself.

The 5 g acceleration is on the way down, so nothing the booster can do about it. If I'm reading right, acceleration on the way up is only 3 g.

Offline Chasm

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #132 on: 12/21/2017 03:29 PM »
The actual acceleration profile would be interesting. There don't seem to be any pictures of that slide.

How long are the acceleration events? What is typical profile? Or perhaps more interestingly: What is the maximum envelope?

Offline Lars-J

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New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #133 on: 12/21/2017 05:28 PM »
Any idea why the acceleration peaks out at highish 5 Gs? I'd have imagined they'd prefer something like 3 Gs for tourist flights.

Practicality and the laws of physics? With a mass efficient capsule (no wings) and an straight up/down trajectory, they are limited in what they can do. 

Perhaps, but then they are "wasting" propellant for that hover landing. Seems like a weird trade to make for me especially since they're not aiming at specially trained people for flights. 5 Gs might be more than Starliner and Dragon 2 will experience on ascent and they're going to orbit!

The 5G is during DESCENT. It has nothing to do with booster performance and trading propellant for accelration, since the capsule has separated by then.

If you drop straight down into the thicker atmosphere, you will decelerate hard. That’s why I mentioned the laws of physics. Entering with a significant horizontal velocity would help, but this is a straight up/down ride.

(A more parabolic trajectory plus wings is why the SS2 should be more gentle - if it ever enters service)
« Last Edit: 12/21/2017 05:36 PM by Lars-J »

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #134 on: 12/22/2017 03:20 PM »
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First Commercial Payloads Onboard New Shepard

On Dec. 12, 2017, New Shepard flew again for the seventh time. Known as Mission 7 (M7), the flight featured our next-generation booster and the first flight of Crew Capsule 2.0. While our primary objective was to progress testing this new system for human spaceflight, we also achieved an exciting milestone with suborbital research in space by sending 12 commercial, research and education payloads under full FAA license for the first time. Payloads flying on New Shepard are doing important science and research onboard the 11-minute flight to space and back. During this flight, our customers get approximately three minutes in a high-quality microgravity environment, at an apogee around 100 kilometers, making New Shepard ideal for microgravity physics, gravitational biology, technology demonstrations, and educational programs.

The combination of high altitude and low-gravity exposure provides an environment for a wide range of payloads ranging from basic and applied microgravity sciences to Earth and space science. Each of these domains has the opportunity to engage users ranging from universities to corporations. The rapid timelines and low costs of flight are also increasingly attracting educators and students of all ages.

Below are a few highlights of investigations that were a part of the New Shepard M7 flight:

Zero-Gravity Glow Experiment (ZGGE)
Purdue University & Cumberland Elementary School (West Lafayette, Indiana) in partnership with Arete STEM

The Zero-Gravity Glow Experiment, or ZGGE for short, was inspired by a second grade classroom’s question: “Can fireflies light up in space?” The payload operates by mixing the appropriate chemicals during the weightless coast period of the vehicle’s mission and observing the response with a miniature video camera.

DCS Montessori Middle School (Castle Pines, Colorado)
In Partnership with DreamUp

This payload was a collaboration across nearly 500 K-8 students and consisted of two parts. The first included an Arduino Nano microcontroller with a sensor package, designed and programed by the students to learn more about the environment inside the Crew Capsule. The second part contained a school-wide art project that all DCS Montessori students participated in. Upon landing, the data from the experiment will be analyzed and the art will be returned to the students and shared with the community.

Cell Research Experiment in Microgravity (CRExIM)
Embry-Riddle University-Daytona Beach, University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio & Medical University of South Carolina (Daytona Beach, Florida) in partnership with Arete STEM

The CRExIM (Cell Research Experiment In Microgravity) NanoLab was a multidisciplinary effort between students and faculty in Embry-Riddle’s Spaceflight Operations degree program and Aerospace and Mechanical Engineering departments, who partnered with other teams from the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio and the Medical University of South Carolina. The experiment studied how microgravity impacts the cellular processes of T-cells, which develop from stem cells in the bone marrow and are key to immune system function.

Expression of Genes in Tumor Growth
Embry-Riddle University-Daytona Beach, Grand Canyon University & Thermo Fisher Scientific (Daytona Beach, Florida) in partnership with Arete STEM

This payload focused on studying the effect of microgravity exposure on the expression of genes that play a role in tumor growth. Two modified flasks were seeded with osteosarcoma cells. Syringes containing RNAlater for cell fixation were attached to each flask and their contents were deployed just before the onset of microgravity (in the case of the experimental control flask) and just after its completion (in the case of the experimental test flask). Now that the mission is complete, the samples will be analyzed via reverse transcription-polymerase chain reaction (RT-PCR) to determine how the expression of the genes has changed.

JANUS Research Platform
Johns Hopkins University-Applied Physics Laboratory (Baltimore, Maryland)

The JANUS integration and monitoring platform, about the size of a car battery, provides researchers with a look at suborbital flight conditions. While this flight deployed JANUS in the shirtsleeve environment of the New Shepard cabin, future iterations will also look at the environment outside the vehicle.

Evolved Medical Microgravity Suction Device
Orbital Medicine (Richmond, Virginia) with Purdue University (West Lafayette, Indiana), with funding from NASA’s Flight Opportunities Program

The Evolved Medical Microgravity Suction Device could assist in treatment of a collapsed lung where air and blood enter the pleural cavity. The payload – which included the device along with a hemothorax simulator – was constructed in collaboration with the Purdue University School of Aeronautics and Astronautics. The device is able to collect blood in microgravity, and still allows for the suction to continuously inflate the lung and allow it to heal. The payload marked Blue Origin’s first flight under NASA’s Flight Opportunities program.

Our frequent flight schedule will allow you to launch your experiment multiple times to iterate on findings, improve statistics, or rapidly collect data. As human flights begin, you’ll also be able to fly with your payloads for hands-on experimentation.

To learn more and fly your payload with us, please visit: https://www.blueorigin.com/payloads

Gradatim Ferociter!

https://www.blueorigin.com/news/news/first-commercial-payloads-onboard-new-shepard

Offline Pete

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #135 on: 12/30/2017 05:05 PM »
The 5G is during DESCENT. It has nothing to do with booster performance and trading propellant for accelration, since the capsule has separated by then.

If you drop straight down into the thicker atmosphere, you will decelerate hard. That’s why I mentioned the laws of physics. Entering with a significant horizontal velocity would help, but this is a straight up/down ride.


That is also the reason why any talk of a "higher hop" to facilitate several more minutes of zero-g is complete nonsense.
If a just-touching-space 105Km hop gives you 5G on the downslope, then a 250Km hop will result in 20g++, turning the occupants into jelly.

Online Comga

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Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #136 on: 12/30/2017 07:05 PM »
The 5G is during DESCENT. It has nothing to do with booster performance and trading propellant for accelration, since the capsule has separated by then.

If you drop straight down into the thicker atmosphere, you will decelerate hard. That’s why I mentioned the laws of physics. Entering with a significant horizontal velocity would help, but this is a straight up/down ride.

Not necessarily
The New Shepard capsule could be equipped to do an entry burn.
But that would require a different engine
And Bezos would never use a Musk innovation. 😛
But maybe he could try to patent it. 😉
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Online TrevorMonty

Re: New Shepard - 7th test flight - December 12, 2017
« Reply #137 on: 12/30/2017 07:25 PM »
There was comment from Blue spokesman that parachutes were there near term high TRL solution which hinted at long term solution that didn't need parachutes. 

The down side of parachutes is the large unpredictable landing area. A controlled landing onto pad or runway would be safer.

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