Author Topic: FAILURE: Shijian-18 - CZ-5 (Y2) - WSLC, LC101 - July 2, 2017 (11:23 UTC)  (Read 109557 times)

Offline russianhalo117

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So if I understand this right, the replacement satellite for ill-fated Shijian-18 launch will be using CZ-5 (Y3) and will launch in the second quarter of 2018 in place of the originally scheduled Chang'e 5???

Came across this article dated 27 Sept 2017:
https://thespacereporter.com/article.php?n=rocket-failure-causes-china-to-postpone-lunar-sample-return-mission&id=131684

There was a mentioned of a second Shijian-18. I assume the author meant a backup for the Shijian-18 that was lost. Scheduled for next month? Using the CZ-5 (Y3) that was initially meant for Chang'e 5? What do you think...just speculation by the author?

"Another Long March 5 launch scheduled for November might carry a second Shijian-18 satellite, replacing the first one, which was destroyed in the failed launch." (paragraph six of the article)

Previous information said that that launch was schedule for the second quarter of 2018.

Offline Moon Rabbit

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So if I understand this right, the replacement satellite for ill-fated Shijian-18 launch will be using CZ-5 (Y3) and will launch in the second quarter of 2018 in place of the originally scheduled Chang'e 5???

Came across this article dated 27 Sept 2017:
https://thespacereporter.com/article.php?n=rocket-failure-causes-china-to-postpone-lunar-sample-return-mission&id=131684

There was a mentioned of a second Shijian-18. I assume the author meant a backup for the Shijian-18 that was lost. Scheduled for next month? Using the CZ-5 (Y3) that was initially meant for Chang'e 5? What do you think...just speculation by the author?

"Another Long March 5 launch scheduled for November might carry a second Shijian-18 satellite, replacing the first one, which was destroyed in the failed launch." (paragraph six of the article)

Previous information said that that launch was schedule for the second quarter of 2018.

i read the article and was wondering whether it is correct (launch in November 2017) because i cannot find other news about this. But it is probably not true as there is no evidence that the CZ-5 (Y3) had already being transported to Wenchang as posted by zhangdmev (thanks). If i am correct Zhangjiagang port is not anywhere near Tianjin. (Nevertheless, the whereabout of the yuangwang 22 is not known...anyone has idea where it is?)

If there is a launch next month, rocket stages should be transported to Wenchang right now. Could be verified by checking the whereabout of yuangwang21/22.

Edit: found Yuan Wang 21 anchored at Zhangjiagang.

https://www.fleetmon.com/vessels/yuan-wang-21_0_8295142/

Don't known where is Yuan Wang 22 right now.

« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 12:56 AM by Moon Rabbit »
The Mercury Seven - Carpenter, Cooper, Glenn, Grissom, Schirra, Shepard, Slayton. “Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.” - Carl Sagan

Offline russianhalo117

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So if I understand this right, the replacement satellite for ill-fated Shijian-18 launch will be using CZ-5 (Y3) and will launch in the second quarter of 2018 in place of the originally scheduled Chang'e 5???

Came across this article dated 27 Sept 2017:
https://thespacereporter.com/article.php?n=rocket-failure-causes-china-to-postpone-lunar-sample-return-mission&id=131684

There was a mentioned of a second Shijian-18. I assume the author meant a backup for the Shijian-18 that was lost. Scheduled for next month? Using the CZ-5 (Y3) that was initially meant for Chang'e 5? What do you think...just speculation by the author?

"Another Long March 5 launch scheduled for November might carry a second Shijian-18 satellite, replacing the first one, which was destroyed in the failed launch." (paragraph six of the article)

Previous information said that that launch was schedule for the second quarter of 2018.

i read the article and was wondering whether it is correct (launch in November 2017) because i cannot find other news about this. But it is probably not true as there is no evidence that the CZ-5 (Y3) had already being transported to Wenchang as posted by zhangdmev (thanks). If i am correct Zhangjiagang port is not anywhere near Tianjin. (Nevertheless, the whereabout of the yuangwang 22 is not known...anyone has idea where it is?)

If there is a launch next month, rocket stages should be transported to Wenchang right now. Could be verified by checking the whereabout of yuangwang21/22.

Edit: found Yuan Wang 21 anchored at Zhangjiagang.

https://www.fleetmon.com/vessels/yuan-wang-21_0_8295142/

Don't known where is Yuan Wang 22 right now.
could be somewhere in dry dock.
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 03:40 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline SmallKing

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Both Yuan Wang 21 and 22 anchored at Jiangyin, Jiangsu as of Oct. 12
In addition to the investigation of CZ-5's failure, the manufacture of SJ-18 02 will take a few time. There is no way CZ-5 Y3 will launch in the coming months
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Offline SmallKing

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Interesting. Someone in 9ifly reminded me that the Xiang Yang Hong 09 survey vessel(support ship of the submarine Jiao Long) is just in the position of CZ-5 stage 1 crash. I just checked the satellite AIS, the current position of the ship is 139°34.08'E 16°49.91'N in 2017-10-03 04:28:38(UTC +8)
One of my sources confirmed that they were looking for the debris of this launch, but they hadn't made a final decision whether to salvage it or not
Some are bound for happiness, some are bound to glory, some are bound to live with less, who can tell your story?

Offline Moon Rabbit

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Interesting. Someone in 9ifly reminded me that the Xiang Yang Hong 09 survey vessel(support ship of the submarine Jiao Long) is just in the position of CZ-5 stage 1 crash. I just checked the satellite AIS, the current position of the ship is 139°34.08'E 16°49.91'N in 2017-10-03 04:28:38(UTC +8)
One of my sources confirmed that they were looking for the debris of this launch, but they hadn't made a final decision whether to salvage it or not

Is it normal for the administration to salvage components (in this case the CZ-5 stage 1) after a failed launch?
The Mercury Seven - Carpenter, Cooper, Glenn, Grissom, Schirra, Shepard, Slayton. “Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.” - Carl Sagan

Offline Moon Rabbit

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Latest news about the CZ-5 (Y2) failure. The article mentioned about an interview with the Exec Vice President of GCWIC,Fu Ziheng  in Tokyo on 11 October 2017.
https://www.spaceintelreport.com/china-great-wall-industry-corp-bumpy-year-satellite-launches-returning-flight/

"At the APSCC conference here on Oct. 11, China Great Wall Industry Corp. (GCWIC) Executive Vice President Fu Ziheng discussed the status the post-failure investigations." (para 2)

"What was the cause of this underperformance?

...After the failure we suspended all Long March launches, including LEO and GEO. During the past few months all the work has been done and we can say that for Long March 5 it is a problem with first-stage propulsion. Right now all the correction work is ongoing because Long March 5 is going to be used for Chinese government missions including lunar missions." (para 10)

"The Long March 5 first-stage propulsion problem was a design issue or a manufacturing issue?

The inquiry process is still ongoing." (para 13)


Reading the article, i seems to have the impression that the engineers have found the fault and they are making the corrections. But it looks like when pressed to state officially the caused, Mr Fu does not want to say.

This article also confirms that they have resolved the issue with the Long March 3B failure.


« Last Edit: 10/17/2017 06:04 AM by Moon Rabbit »
The Mercury Seven - Carpenter, Cooper, Glenn, Grissom, Schirra, Shepard, Slayton. “Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.” - Carl Sagan

Offline SmallKing

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Interesting. Someone in 9ifly reminded me that the Xiang Yang Hong 09 survey vessel(support ship of the submarine Jiao Long) is just in the position of CZ-5 stage 1 crash. I just checked the satellite AIS, the current position of the ship is 139°34.08'E 16°49.91'N in 2017-10-03 04:28:38(UTC +8)
One of my sources confirmed that they were looking for the debris of this launch, but they hadn't made a final decision whether to salvage it or not

Is it normal for the administration to salvage components (in this case the CZ-5 stage 1) after a failed launch?
After the failure of H-II F8, Japanese salvaged the debris of S1s engine for investigation. But for Chinese, it may be the first time to do it
Some are bound for happiness, some are bound to glory, some are bound to live with less, who can tell your story?

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

OK it's "rumors" time on what happened with the YF-77: this rumor (actually posted a few weeks ago) points to the problem being one of the engine's turbopump rotor shaft's enclosure cap falling off and blocked the propellant flow after it fell into the propellant feedline.

Also here is someone who claimed to have spoken with CZ-5 program director Li Dong yesterday:

1. The cause of this failure has been pinpointed and SASTIND will make a public statement soon.
2. Modifications to the engine have been designed. The next step will be to test and certify the modifications.
3. Next flight of the CZ-5 will be (per his personal estimation) before late 2018. (Launching by mid-2018 will be tight due to the need to test the modifications)
4. No upgrades to the CZ-5 (YF-100K, ability of the 2nd stage to make 3+ burns) will be introduced until after the whole launcher is in a mature state.
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline JimO

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For discussion and critiques here's my report on the Philippines observations of the failure and how ultimately disappointing they were.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Quote
Long March 5 update: The fault behind the July failure has been identified & effective measures taken. However, the fault itself has not been disclosed. 3rd flight will be by/near end of 2018 http://news.sina.com.cn/c/nd/2018-01-15/doc-ifyqptqv9660647.shtml … (中文)

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/952866589736611840

Quote
The new info comes from Tao Gang, general manager of Tianjin Long March Launch Vehicle Manufacturing Co, which produces the CZ-5. Tao adds mass production of active rockets will be one of the main tasks for 2018, together with start of R&D on next-gen launchers.

https://twitter.com/AJ_FI/status/952867745993056256

Offline Galactic Penguin SST

The Chinese have finally officially reported on the failure cause 9.5 months after the launch. The 1st stage engine no. 1's turbopump exhaust structure was blamed for failing under "complex thermal conditions" which fatally reduced its thrust at T+346 seconds. They also reported that the redesigned YF-77 have already been test fired multiple times by now with satisfactory results.
Chang'e 5 will go up on flight 4 after the RTF later this year.

Source
Chinese spaceflight is a cosmic riddle wrapped in a galactic mystery inside an orbital enigma... - (not) Winston Churchill

Offline zandr

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http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-04/16/c_137114990.htm
Quote
China to launch Long March-5 Y3 rocket in late 2018
BEIJING, April 16 (Xinhua) -- China plans to launch its heavy-lift carrier rocket, the Long March-5 Y3, in late 2018, after finding the cause of the failure of the Long March-5 Y2, according to the State Administration of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense.
The Long March-5 Y2 rocket was launched from Wenchang Space Launch Center in the southern province of Hainan on July 2, 2017, but a malfunction happened less than six minutes after liftoff.
Analysis based on computer simulations and ground tests showed that a problem occurred in a turbine exhaust device in the engine of the first stage of the rocket, the administration said Monday.
The engine has been improved and has passed many ground tests. The research team is producing the Long March-5 Y3 rocket, according to the administration.
If the Long March-5 Y3 rocket is successful, the Long March-5 Y4 rocket will be used to launch the Chang'e-5 lunar probe, which is expected to bring lunar samples back to Earth.

Offline Star One

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China reveals cause of Long March 5 failure; lunar sample mission to follow return-to-flight

Some article highlights.

Quote
The State Administration for Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense (SASTIND), which oversees China’s space activities, released a report April 16 attributing the failure to a turbopump on one of two liquid-oxygen and hydrogen YF-77 engines powering the rocket’s first stage.

The turbopump’s exhaust structure, according to SASTIND, failed while under “complex thermal conditions.”

Redesigned YF-77 engines have already been through hot fire testing at a site in a ravine near Xi’an in north China. The tests have verified the effectiveness of the measures taken, according to the report.

The return to flight is to take place late in the year, with previous space industry statements pointing to November.

Quote
Instead, the third Long March 5 will carry an experimental telecommunications satellite named Shijian-20, or “Practice-20” in Chinese, based on a new, large DFH-5 satellite platform, similar to the Shijian-18 satellite lost in July.

Quote
The SASTIND report states that the fourth Long March 5 will now carry the Chang’e-5 lunar sample return mission, launching in 2019. The mission will be the first of its kind for more than four decades and aims to collect around 2 kilograms of regolith from a site close to Mons Rümker in Oceanus Procellarum in the northwest of the moon’s near side.

A successful return to flight of the Long March 5 would also pave the way for the test launch of the Long March 5B, a variant developed for low Earth orbit launches and tasked with lofting 20 metric ton modules for a planned space station. The 5B is slated to perform its test flight around June 2019, according to a statement in March from theChina Manned Space Engineering Office.

http://spacenews.com/china-reveals-cause-of-long-march-5-failure-lunar-sample-mission-to-follow-return-to-flight/

Offline JimO

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The Chinese have finally officially reported on the failure cause 9.5 months after the launch. The 1st stage engine no. 1's turbopump exhaust structure was blamed for failing under "complex thermal conditions" which fatally reduced its thrust at T+346 seconds. ....

Well, you nailed it last year:  "What is sure is that all went wrong at 10:49 (T+5:44) when the left engine plume catastrophically turned into gas venting - that fits in with the rumored time that the 1st stage engine #1's turbopump went down."  You were off by two whole seconds. Attaboy!!!

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