Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ & Microsat 2a/2b : SLC-4E : Feb 22, 2018 : DISCUSSION  (Read 134200 times)

Online ZachS09

Sunrise at Vandenberg on February 10th is 6:53 AM PST, which means that it'll be 31 minutes before sunrise at the time Paz launches. Here's the link to confirm this statement.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

And yes, it's possible that many LA residents will be shocked at the F9 engine plumes again and confuse it for a fictitious UFO.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2018 10:36 PM by ZachS09 »
Because the Falcon Heavy Test Flight was successful, it has inspired thousands of people to consider changing the future of space travel.

Online RocketLover0119

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If they indeed attempt to land on this flight, now looking more than likely that it would RTLS per this-

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-12-26/pdf/2017-27761.pdf

the clearance for sonic booms been issued! ;D
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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If there is no budget bill passed before the current CR expires, and the federal government shuts down again at midnight, February 9, does that preclude pre-launch activities at Vandenberg, like a WDR or a static fire, and the launch itself?

This is the first launch after February 8 from a USA facility/range.

Are the activity restrictions mentioned in this thread for KSC/Canaveral/Eastern Range duplicated at Vandenberg/Western Range?

If so, are there any pressing tasks on hold at Vandenberg because of the government shutdown?

(Quoted questions above were not answered in its original thread.)
« Last Edit: 01/23/2018 09:43 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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Offline pb2000

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If they indeed attempt to land on this flight, now looking more than likely that it would RTLS per this-

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-12-26/pdf/2017-27761.pdf

the clearance for sonic booms been issued! ;D
Ah, now we also know what the Iridium landing zone is (just the downrange zone JRTI was permitted to catch rockets in).
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT), PAZ+Starlink (Falcon 9 FT)

Online gongora

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Tweet from Airbus Space:
Quote
Spanish radar #satellite #PAZ, built by @AirbusSpace, to be launched on the 17th of Feb. with a @SpaceX #Falcon9 rocket.

Offline DaveJes1979

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The chart on the "SpaceX Manifest Updates" thread now says that the PAZ launch will be an expendable first-stage mission.  What happened?  Can't find a source for this one way or the other.

Online gongora

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There isn't an FCC permit for recovery (unless I forgot to copy one into my spreadsheet.)  This close to launch it should have been filed already if they intended to do it.

Offline DaveJes1979

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There isn't an FCC permit for recovery (unless I forgot to copy one into my spreadsheet.)  This close to launch it should have been filed already if they intended to do it.

Interesting.  The chart says it is "1038.2".  Maybe it's another block 3 first stage they want to get rid of.

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Do we know the booster number for this mission?

Online ZachS09

Do we know the booster number for this mission?

B1038 will be reflown on this mission.
Because the Falcon Heavy Test Flight was successful, it has inspired thousands of people to consider changing the future of space travel.

Offline Kaputnik

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Do we know the booster number for this mission?

B1038 will be reflown on this mission.

Previously flown in August 2017 carrying Formosat.
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Do we know the booster number for this mission?

B1038 will be reflown on this mission.

Thank you!

Offline macpacheco

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The chart on the "SpaceX Manifest Updates" thread now says that the PAZ launch will be an expendable first-stage mission.  What happened?  Can't find a source for this one way or the other.
Elon says they're not interested in recovering Block III/IVs anymore. That makes me conclude at least not interested in recovering Block III/IVs already on their 2nd flight.
Before somebody says, but FH was Block III/IV. Yep, it was a demonstration mission to show what Falcon Heavy can do. SpaceX sure would be interested in doing some analysis on all boosters they recover. Falcon 9 launches are revenue launches. SpaceX wants to move to Block V and its cheaper to leave those boosters in the ocean rather than fill hangars with them without having the intent to reuse them.
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Offline wannamoonbase

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The chart on the "SpaceX Manifest Updates" thread now says that the PAZ launch will be an expendable first-stage mission.  What happened?  Can't find a source for this one way or the other.
Elon says they're not interested in recovering Block III/IVs anymore. That makes me conclude at least not interested in recovering Block III/IVs already on their 2nd flight.
Before somebody says, but FH was Block III/IV. Yep, it was a demonstration mission to show what Falcon Heavy can do. SpaceX sure would be interested in doing some analysis on all boosters they recover. Falcon 9 launches are revenue launches. SpaceX wants to move to Block V and its cheaper to leave those boosters in the ocean rather than fill hangars with them without having the intent to reuse them.

Being the first FH core, no doubt they wanted it back.  But it wonít be a show stopper.

Not much point collecting Block 3 & 4 now.  As you said, clear the deck and donít take up peopleís time.  They have a lot of work to do.

FH was amazing, but Iím ready for the next flight, 9 days from now. 

Edit: They donít get the coverage and doubtful SpaceX will ever say much, but these 2 demo satellites for Starlink could have as much of an impact on the companies future as any of the other on going developments.
« Last Edit: 02/08/2018 12:45 AM by wannamoonbase »
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Offline Jcc

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The chart on the "SpaceX Manifest Updates" thread now says that the PAZ launch will be an expendable first-stage mission.  What happened?  Can't find a source for this one way or the other.
Elon says they're not interested in recovering Block III/IVs anymore. That makes me conclude at least not interested in recovering Block III/IVs already on their 2nd flight.
Before somebody says, but FH was Block III/IV. Yep, it was a demonstration mission to show what Falcon Heavy can do. SpaceX sure would be interested in doing some analysis on all boosters they recover. Falcon 9 launches are revenue launches. SpaceX wants to move to Block V and its cheaper to leave those boosters in the ocean rather than fill hangars with them without having the intent to reuse them.

I can see wanting to save the cost of ASDS recovery, and preferring to use recovery margin for extra performance of high energy missions, but I would think that particularly for RTLS they can get more value by selling them for scrap than the cost of recovery.

Of course, it would take their skilled staff time to cut them up, time better spent building rockets and  prepping the next launch. They can't very well sell it without cutting into bits (ITAR and proprietary).

OK I just convinced myself that scrapping them is a bad idea too.

Offline MATTBLAK

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If Block 3 & 4's have been flown and recovered successfully; how many times can they be reused? Just the once again? If so, I suppose they are excellent candidates for expendable missions.
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Offline pb2000

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If Block 3 & 4's have been flown and recovered successfully; how many times can they be reused? Just the once again? If so, I suppose they are excellent candidates for expendable missions.
Back when SpaceX just had a few recovered boosters in the barn, they were talking several reuses per booster, but now that they have more than they know what to do with, it's shifted to one reuse on a used LEO booster. Block 5 is suppose to be 10 flights (extendable with refurb), but that's heavily dependent on how many pervious flights customers are willing to accept.
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT), PAZ+Starlink (Falcon 9 FT)

Offline macpacheco

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If Block 3 & 4's have been flown and recovered successfully; how many times can they be reused? Just the once again? If so, I suppose they are excellent candidates for expendable missions.
Back when SpaceX just had a few recovered boosters in the barn, they were talking several reuses per booster, but now that they have more than they know what to do with, it's shifted to one reuse on a used LEO booster. Block 5 is suppose to be 10 flights (extendable with refurb), but that's heavily dependent on how many pervious flights customers are willing to accept.


Agreed, 10 flights is an aspirational goal.  I think we will have to wait to see how many they can do.

Engine life might be determining factor. 

Anything more than 1 and done is huge though.
SpaceX has now achieved what, 8 successful reflights, without a single mishap ?

Engines can be ground tested. Remember that SpaceX took one of the landed boosters and burned them to mission duration how many times ? I think it was 7 additional full duration test firings.
That was a Block II. 10x flights will be Block V only. With all the lessons learned incorporated.
I think they know what they're doing. Lets not second guess them, ok ?
Its so easy to second guess everything.
We can keep showing concern for this or that, ignoring the fact that they have the data and we don't.

And what matters isn't what happens to the first and second Block V, but what happens after they get through the first few dozen launches.
The first few ones will be put through big scrutinity until they actually do inspect and release.

I don't think 10 reflights is aspirational. Its based on solid engineering and data. Data that nobody posting on NSF L1 has access to.

I also think SpaceX haven't flown the same booster 3 or 4x because they don't need to. They have way too many old launch contracts that just don't give them the flexibility to assign a flown booster for that launch, so they ended up with a large fleet of only once flown boosters. Many (was some) customers are demanding higher discounts that SpaceX is willing to give them.

I apologize for being a little harsh. But its just too easy to question everything up to the minute until SpaceX succeeds in another one of its goals. Then crickets.

Edits: Toned down my language as the quoted post did put me a bit too much on edge, added proper data on reuse and corrected spelling.
« Last Edit: 02/08/2018 06:50 AM by macpacheco »
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Online gongora

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This is a mission thread. If your discussion isn't about the PAZ mission then another thread may be more appropriate.

Offline king1999

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The chart on the "SpaceX Manifest Updates" thread now says that the PAZ launch will be an expendable first-stage mission.  What happened?  Can't find a source for this one way or the other.
Elon says they're not interested in recovering Block III/IVs anymore. That makes me conclude at least not interested in recovering Block III/IVs already on their 2nd flight.
Before somebody says, but FH was Block III/IV. Yep, it was a demonstration mission to show what Falcon Heavy can do. SpaceX sure would be interested in doing some analysis on all boosters they recover. Falcon 9 launches are revenue launches. SpaceX wants to move to Block V and its cheaper to leave those boosters in the ocean rather than fill hangars with them without having the intent to reuse them.
Elon said they wanted to recover the side boosters of the FH, not just for testing, but the Ti Grid Fins are expensive and slow to make.

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