Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ & Microsat 2a/2b : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Feb 10, 2018  (Read 31822 times)

Online Ronsmytheiii

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Discussion Thread for PAZ mission.

NSF Threads for PAZ : Discussion / L2 Coverage January-February
NSF Articles for PAZ :

Feb 10, 2018 on reused Falcon 9 from Vandenberg.  Launch time reported as 1422 UTC, 0622 PST.  First stage may be expended.  PAZ is 1400kg and going to a 514-km polar orbit.  SpaceX is expected to launch their demonstration satellites, Microsat 2a & 2b, for the internet constellation on this flight.

SpaceX satellite threads:  SpaceX FCC filing for a 4425 satellite constellation providing Internet service / SpaceX - now a satellite vendor?


Quote
Hisdesat, the Spanish government satellite services company, has signed an agreement with U.S. company SpaceX to launch the Earth Observation Radar satellite, PAZ, on board a Falcon 9 rocket. The launch is targeted to take place during the last quarter of 2017, from Space Launch Complex 4E at Vandenberg Air Force Base, California. The numerous successes of Falcon 9 have been a driving factor for the election of Hisdesat to launch on board this rocket, which already has the confidence of other great companies.

http://www.hisdesat.es/eng/noticias_notas.php

Edit to use original press release



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« Last Edit: 01/15/2018 10:18 PM by gongora »
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Quote
Launching of the Spanish PAZ satellite will be carried out with the help of the Falcon 9 rocket from SpaceX company instead of the Russian Dnepr rocket, as planned initially, according to the website of the customer - the Spanish state-owned company Hisdesat.

"Hisdesat signed an agreement with the US company SpaceX to launch the PAZ Earth observation radar on board the Falcon 9 rocket," the report said.

The launch is scheduled for the last quarter of 2017 at the cosmodrome on the territory of the air base Vandenberg in California.

https://www.gazeta.ru/science/news/2017/03/07/n_9768869.shtml

There's going to be a Cosmodrome at VAFB now, cool!
Excited to be finally into the first Falcon Heavy flow, we are getting so close!

Offline WmThomas

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The Spanish text doesn't call it a cosmodrome. The English page has a funky translation, I guess.

Offline WmThomas

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How did Hisdesat get a launch lined up for 2017, given SpaceX's backlog?

Is this going to rideshare with Formosat, maybe?

Offline Ragmar

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Peter Selding reported that PAZ will have a co-passenger, but doesn't know who yet:

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/839102717591158784
Quote
Hisdesat: We dont yet know the ID of our co-passenger for late-2017 @SpaceX launch of our Paz radar sat into polar LEO from VAFB.#SATShow

« Last Edit: 12/08/2017 10:54 PM by gongora »

Offline Jcc

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How did Hisdesat get a launch lined up for 2017, given SpaceX's backlog?

Is this going to rideshare with Formosat, maybe?

Can we speculate that it will use a reflown S1?
« Last Edit: 03/08/2017 01:34 AM by Jcc »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Hisdesat attempting to recover deposit for the cancelled Dnepr launch:

http://spacenews.com/hisdesat-demanding-refund-as-it-dumps-dnepr-for-falcon-9/


Offline wannamoonbase

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How did Hisdesat get a launch lined up for 2017, given SpaceX's backlog?

Is this going to rideshare with Formosat, maybe?

Can we speculate that it will use a reflown S1?

With Shotwell stating 5 more flights with reused boosters this year I wouldn't bet against it.
Excited to be finally into the first Falcon Heavy flow, we are getting so close!

Online AncientU

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How did Hisdesat get a launch lined up for 2017, given SpaceX's backlog?

Is this going to rideshare with Formosat, maybe?

Can we speculate that it will use a reflown S1?

With Shotwell stating 5 more flights with reused boosters this year I wouldn't bet against it.

If true, second stages are not/will not be the pacing item -- otherwise, this payload would have to wait in queue for its second stage.  Launch pad slots seem to be pacing today.  After the next handful of flights, or at least by LC-40 return to service, they drop back to first stages being limiting.  Reflights can then become fillers between new cores.
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Online gongora

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Speculation about whether the flight could reuse a booster is really not appropriate in every mission thread that gets created.  If we get any actual indication that the flight will reuse a booster then you can discuss it here.  Otherwise, maybe stick to a general reuse thread.

Online DaveJes1979

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This is a very likely candidate to be the first RTLS (Return to Launch Site) for F9 at Vandenberg.  With only 1400 kg to sun synchronous orbit, it seems it would have the propellant to do so.
« Last Edit: 08/31/2017 10:09 PM by DaveJes1979 »

Online gongora

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[SpaceNews] Spire, 40 cubesats in orbit, competing more directly in space-based ship-tracking market
Quote
exactEarth has 65 hosted payloads launching on Iridium Next satellites, spokesperson Nicole Schill told SpaceNews Aug. 31...The company has one more first-generation payload awaiting launch on the long-delayed PAZ satellite that investor Hisdesat of Spain recently shifted from Kosmotras to SpaceX. Schill said PAZ is expected to launch in December 2017;

I don't see how all of these launches set for December 2017 are actually going to launch in December 2017.  Who knows, maybe SpaceX can pull it off.  It would be nice if this launched in December, Vandenberg is gonna get busy next year.

Online AncientU

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Speculation about whether the flight could reuse a booster is really not appropriate in every mission thread that gets created.  If we get any actual indication that the flight will reuse a booster then you can discuss it here.  Otherwise, maybe stick to a general reuse thread.

When the award announcement to launch interval is this short, and the well-established* queue is jumped, I think the reality is that a reuse core is indicated.  Not random speculation, unless there is a better explanation...

* I'm assuming that queue published in this section is well-sourced and reasonably reliable.
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Online gongora

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Speculation about whether the flight could reuse a booster is really not appropriate in every mission thread that gets created.  If we get any actual indication that the flight will reuse a booster then you can discuss it here.  Otherwise, maybe stick to a general reuse thread.

When the award announcement to launch interval is this short, and the well-established* queue is jumped, I think the reality is that a reuse core is indicated.  Not random speculation, unless there is a better explanation...

* I'm assuming that queue published in this section is well-sourced and reasonably reliable.

When I wrote that 5 1/2 months ago people were asking that question in every mission thread created, no matter how far in the future it was.

Offline rockets4life97

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I think this has a good shot of launching in December because there isn't another flight out of Vandy scheduled for that month. The 5th Iridium launch is almost certainly January 2018 now with the slip of the 3rd Iridium to October (if that wasn't clear earlier).

Online AncientU

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Speculation about whether the flight could reuse a booster is really not appropriate in every mission thread that gets created.  If we get any actual indication that the flight will reuse a booster then you can discuss it here.  Otherwise, maybe stick to a general reuse thread.

When the award announcement to launch interval is this short, and the well-established* queue is jumped, I think the reality is that a reuse core is indicated.  Not random speculation, unless there is a better explanation...

* I'm assuming that queue published in this section is well-sourced and reasonably reliable.

When I wrote that 5 1/2 months ago people were asking that question in every mission thread created, no matter how far in the future it was.

Sorry, missed the date line.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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This is a very likely candidate to be the first RTLS (Return to Launch Site) for F9 at Vandenberg.  With only 1400 kg to sun synchronous orbit, it seems it would have the propellant to do so.

Formosat was about 450kg to SSO and it didn't even do a boostback ASDS landing. Unless they just decided "Why not, let's just do a crazy entry burn with no boostback", this will likely not be RTLS.
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Offline cppetrie

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This is a very likely candidate to be the first RTLS (Return to Launch Site) for F9 at Vandenberg.  With only 1400 kg to sun synchronous orbit, it seems it would have the propellant to do so.

Formosat was about 450kg to SSO and it didn't even do a boostback ASDS landing. Unless they just decided "Why not, let's just do a crazy entry burn with no boostback", this will likely not be RTLS.
RTLS was not done because they have not been approved to use the LZ. Somebody with more knowledge will have to say whether it was possible had LZ use been approved, but either way it wasn't going to happen.

Online DaveJes1979

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See the final 5 paragraphs of this article:  https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/08/spacex-static-fire-formosat-5-falcon-9-asds-landing/

That means that, unless the landing facilities are still incomplete, they could theoretically do RTLS for any launch that has the excess performance to do so.

Offline cppetrie

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See the final 5 paragraphs of this article:  https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/08/spacex-static-fire-formosat-5-falcon-9-asds-landing/

That means that, unless the landing facilities are still incomplete, they could theoretically do RTLS for any launch that has the excess performance to do so.
Based on the brief glimpses of the landing pad from various Formosat-5 launch videos and pictures, it appeared to not yet be painted indicating it is not yet ready to go.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: 09/01/2017 10:02 PM by cppetrie »

Online guckyfan

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Based on the brief glimpses of the landing pad from various Formosat-5 launch videos and pictures, it appeared to not yet be painted indicating it is not yet ready to go.

Yes, but what is the holdup? Not finishing the landing pad, that's a quick job. What seems mostly missing is the stand to put the Falcon core on for safing. But that too is a quick job.

Online DaveJes1979

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Step 1:  pour concrete.
Step 2: Paint a big, stylized "X" on it.
Step 3: ???

Unless there is some ground support equipment I'm not thinking of, you'd think the project would be simple.

Offline Joffan

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Step 1:  pour concrete.
Step 2: Paint a big, stylized "X" on it.
Step 3: ???

Unless there is some ground support equipment I'm not thinking of, you'd think the project would be simple.

Step 3: Get permission to drop a giant flying blowtorch from a great height onto an Air Force base.
When I say "Jump!", you say "To which orbital inclination?"

Offline woods170

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Step 1:  pour concrete.
Step 2: Paint a big, stylized "X" on it.
Step 3: ???

Unless there is some ground support equipment I'm not thinking of, you'd think the project would be simple.

Step 3: Get permission to drop a giant flying blowtorch from a great height onto an Air Force base.
What do you think CCAFS is?

Offline Joffan

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Step 1:  pour concrete.
Step 2: Paint a big, stylized "X" on it.
Step 3: ???

Unless there is some ground support equipment I'm not thinking of, you'd think the project would be simple.

Step 3: Get permission to drop a giant flying blowtorch from a great height onto an Air Force base.
What do you think CCAFS is?
I think CCAFS is... much more interested in public approval than Vandenberg. But more seriously, I'm certain that Vandenberg would not grant permission simply because CCAFS did.
When I say "Jump!", you say "To which orbital inclination?"

Online cscott

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There is also the hugely expensive SLC-6 you have to overfly in order to RTLS to SLC-4W at Vandenberg.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_AFB_Space_Launch_Complex_6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_AFB_Space_Launch_Complex_4
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 01:40 PM by cscott »

Offline woods170

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There is also the hugely expensive SLC-6 you have to overfly in order to RTLS to SLC-4W at Vandenberg.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_AFB_Space_Launch_Complex_6
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandenberg_AFB_Space_Launch_Complex_4

What do you think flies straight over SLC-6 when SpaceX launches due-south from SLC-4? They don't perform a mini-dogleg around SLC-6 during ascent.

Online cscott

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Sure, they've approved 1x the risk for launch, but it's entirely reasonable they may be dragging their feet on approving an additional 1x the risk (or more) for landing.  SpaceX deliberately keeps calling its landings "experimental", but launches are operational.  The overflight risks for the different phases of flight are different.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 02:15 PM by cscott »

Online abaddon

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SpaceX deliberately keeps calling its landings "experimental"
They stopped doing that some time ago.  They are considered a secondary objective (rightly so) but are no longer considered "experimental".  (And who would believe them if they did use that terminology at this point?)
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 02:34 PM by abaddon »

Offline watermod

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SpaceX deliberately keeps calling its landings "experimental"
They stopped doing that some time ago.  They are considered a secondary objective (rightly so) but are no longer considered "experimental".  )And who would believe them if they did use that terminology at this point?)

Today's X37B launch landed right near the center of the landing X again.   Video was provided all the way down.   It looked perfect.   At what point will Vandenberg's decision makers consider it safe and proven?
This was the 16th successful one.

Offline russianhalo117

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SpaceX deliberately keeps calling its landings "experimental"
They stopped doing that some time ago.  They are considered a secondary objective (rightly so) but are no longer considered "experimental".  )And who would believe them if they did use that terminology at this point?)

Today's X37B launch landed right near the center of the landing X again.   Video was provided all the way down.   It looked perfect.   At what point will Vandenberg's decision makers consider it safe and proven?
This was the 16th successful one.

In a brief nutshell, whenever SpaceX installs the required post-landing GSE and Hardware and VAFB, FAA, and FCC sign off and give approval allowing "LZ-4W" landings to commence.
« Last Edit: 09/07/2017 05:01 PM by russianhalo117 »

Offline DreamyPickle

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It's very interesting that SpaceX signed a 1400kg to SSO launch in 2017. They've done lighter launches before but those were originally signed up for the Falcon 1. This contract shows that SpaceX is profitably competing in the lower end of the market.

Maybe this is what reduced costs from reusability look like in practice?

Offline vaporcobra

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It's very interesting that SpaceX signed a 1400kg to SSO launch in 2017. They've done lighter launches before but those were originally signed up for the Falcon 1. This contract shows that SpaceX is profitably competing in the lower end of the market.

Maybe this is what reduced costs from reusability look like in practice?

Allllllso, it appears extremely likely that SpaceX intends to launch its first two test satellites for their LEO constellation as passengers on this launch. Tim Farrar made the extremely astute observation that the publicly released orbits for both Microsats and PAZ are virtually identical, "a sun-synchronous orbit at 514 km altitude with an inclination of 97.44 degrees".

2200ish kg to SSO is marginally less crazy than 1400 kg for a Falcon 9, but it's something.

http://tmfassociates.com/blog/2017/09/08/me-first-no-me/
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Offline russianhalo117

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It's very interesting that SpaceX signed a 1400kg to SSO launch in 2017. They've done lighter launches before but those were originally signed up for the Falcon 1. This contract shows that SpaceX is profitably competing in the lower end of the market.

Maybe this is what reduced costs from reusability look like in practice?

Allllllso, it appears extremely likely that SpaceX intends to launch its first two test satellites for their LEO constellation as passengers on this launch. Tim Farrar made the extremely astute observation that the publicly released orbits for both Microsats and PAZ are virtually identical, "a sun-synchronous orbit at 514 km altitude with an inclination of 97.44 degrees".

2200ish kg to SSO is marginally less crazy than 1400 kg for a Falcon 9, but it's something.

http://tmfassociates.com/blog/2017/09/08/me-first-no-me/
That doest currently have any confirmation other than coincidence at this point.

Offline vaporcobra

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It's very interesting that SpaceX signed a 1400kg to SSO launch in 2017. They've done lighter launches before but those were originally signed up for the Falcon 1. This contract shows that SpaceX is profitably competing in the lower end of the market.

Maybe this is what reduced costs from reusability look like in practice?

Allllllso, it appears extremely likely that SpaceX intends to launch its first two test satellites for their LEO constellation as passengers on this launch. Tim Farrar made the extremely astute observation that the publicly released orbits for both Microsats and PAZ are virtually identical, "a sun-synchronous orbit at 514 km altitude with an inclination of 97.44 degrees".

2200ish kg to SSO is marginally less crazy than 1400 kg for a Falcon 9, but it's something.

http://tmfassociates.com/blog/2017/09/08/me-first-no-me/
That doest currently have any confirmation other than coincidence at this point.

Unless it's just an absurdly unusual placeholder, it's quite the improbable coincidence. SpaceX's constellation as currently planned has no use for DSP satellites, whereas SSO for a testbed for new comms tech would allow greater flexibility than an operational orbit.
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Offline DreamyPickle

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That doesn't currently have any confirmation other than coincidence at this point.

Yes, but it's the closest thing we've seen to a launch date for CommX. It would be great is somebody else could confirm or deny this.
« Last Edit: 09/09/2017 11:41 AM by DreamyPickle »

Offline Semmel

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SpaceX said that they would only operate the sats when above the control center to limit radio interference with other sats in orbit. A sun synchronous orbit might maximise the number of overpasses as compared to an operational orbit. Also for the rideshare, what other payloads are there that make a rideshare possible? Maybe the specifically selected PAZ because there are little to no other rideshare options available in the near future. I am not saying that is the case, but it is a possibility.

Offline russianhalo117

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That doesn't currently have any confirmation other than coincidence at this point.

Yes, but it's the closest thing we've seen to a launch date for CommX. It would be great is somebody else could confirm or deny this.
First Comm-X prototypes MicroSat-2A/2B are not expected to fly until 2018 at this point and will have a final test orbit of 1125 km circular at roughly 98° inclination. Deployment orbit will depend on Primary payload and Delta-v capability being high enough to also allow the second stage to deorbit.

Offline su27k

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Peter Selding reported that PAZ will have a co-passenger, but doesn't know who yet:

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/839102717591158784

This tweet is worth revisiting given the new speculation...

Offline vaporcobra

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That doesn't currently have any confirmation other than coincidence at this point.

Yes, but it's the closest thing we've seen to a launch date for CommX. It would be great is somebody else could confirm or deny this.
First Comm-X prototypes MicroSat-2A/2B are not expected to fly until 2018 at this point and will have a final test orbit of 1125 km circular at roughly 98° inclination. Deployment orbit will depend on Primary payload and Delta-v capability being high enough to also allow the second stage to deorbit.

Interesting, do you have a source? I'm mainly just concluding that it's highly likely because the evidence we currently have is far too specific to be a coincidence. Of course, things can change over several months. But it's the best public info we currently have.
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Online gongora

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It's worth noting that the Microsat 1a/1b application listed the same inclination as Iridium, and the Microsat 2a/2b application did not.  The 2a/2b application was filed a couple of months before the Paz contract was publicly announced, but they were probably already working on it at the time (and may well have had it already negotiated).  There are also other potential SSO opportunities coming up such as SSO-A.  The only SSO flights that would really fit the timing are PAZ, SSO-A (which has slipped a little), and SAOCOM-1A (which has also slipped a bit, and the old date didn't really line up that well).

Online gongora

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This is also being discussed in the SpaceX satellite thread starting at
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=41634.msg1721067#msg1721067
which may be a better place for it.

Online gongora

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[ La Opinión de Murcia] The first Spanish high-resolution satellite to be launched at the end of December
Quote
[Google translation] The Paz satellite, which is the first Spanish high-resolution radar sensor, will launch into space in the last week of this year. This was confirmed yesterday by HisdeSAT, the company that owns and manages the satellite - 30% owned by the Ministry of Defense - in the technical demonstration presented at the XVII Congress of the Spanish Association of Remote Sensing (AET2017), held in Murcia from yesterday until tomorrow.

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Owner #hisdesat Spain: @SpaceX sets Jan 30 VAFB launch of 1400-kg @AirbusDefence-built Paz high-res SAR Earth obs sat to 514-km polar orbit.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/917451649177739264

Offline rockets4life97

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Quote
Owner #hisdesat Spain: @SpaceX sets Jan 30 VAFB launch of 1400-kg @AirbusDefence-built Paz high-res SAR Earth obs sat to 514-km polar orbit.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/917451649177739264

Jan 30 was when Iridium 5 was expected to launch. Can the Iridium launches be closer than 2 months apart? Any word on the co-passenger?

Edit: Could PAZ fit on the adapter with with 5 Iridium sats and Grace FO 1 and 2? That would explain this change.
« Last Edit: 10/09/2017 07:16 PM by rockets4life97 »

Online Galactic Penguin SST

Quote
Owner #hisdesat Spain: @SpaceX sets Jan 30 VAFB launch of 1400-kg @AirbusDefence-built Paz high-res SAR Earth obs sat to 514-km polar orbit.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/917451649177739264

Jan 30 was when Iridium 5 was expected to launch. Can the Iridium launches be closer than 2 months apart? Any word on the co-passenger?

Edit: Could PAZ fit on the adapter with with 5 Iridium sats and Grace FO 1 and 2? That would explain this change.

The target orbits are too far apart for that to happen.  ???
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Owner #hisdesat Spain: @SpaceX sets Jan 30 VAFB launch of 1400-kg @AirbusDefence-built Paz high-res SAR Earth obs sat to 514-km polar orbit.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/917451649177739264

Jan 30 was when Iridium 5 was expected to launch. Can the Iridium launches be closer than 2 months apart? Any word on the co-passenger?

Edit: Could PAZ fit on the adapter with with 5 Iridium sats and Grace FO 1 and 2? That would explain this change.

The target orbits are too far apart for that to happen.  ???

??? indeed. PAZ and GRACE-FO are both going to 500 km SSO. The Iridium payload is only ~4800 kg, the remaining performance is more than enough for the F9 US to do a ~12 degree inclination change and lower the orbit by 125 km, even while carrying both PAZ and GRACE-FO.

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Edit: Could PAZ fit on the adapter with with 5 Iridium sats and Grace FO 1 and 2? That would explain this change.
I think that this stack doesn't work.
If I'm not mistaken, both the Iridium Next and Grace FO satellites are roughly the same shape and size. Aka: 3m high, 2m wide and ~1m deep. They are side mounted to a carrying structure. Grace was planned to use a structure like the one used for dual galileo sat (soyuz) launches.
PAZ is a larger satellite. It's a hexegonal satellite 5m long and 2.4m in (outer) diameter. (6x1.2m sides)
(This is to large for the Vega fairing) It wants a axial (in line/ standard) deployment.
I think it will be very difficult to mount the Grace-FO on a structure around PAZ. The F9 Fairing is to short to stack all sats on top of each other. (3 + 3 + 5 = 11m D2.4m | 3 + 5 =8m D5m)

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Edit: Could PAZ fit on the adapter with with 5 Iridium sats and Grace FO 1 and 2? That would explain this change.
I think that this stack doesn't work.
If I'm not mistaken, both the Iridium Next and Grace FO satellites are roughly the same shape and size. Aka: 3m high, 2m wide and ~1m deep. They are side mounted to a carrying structure. Grace was planned to use a structure like the one used for dual galileo sat (soyuz) launches.
PAZ is a larger satellite. It's a hexegonal satellite 5m long and 2.4m in (outer) diameter. (6x1.2m sides)
(This is to large for the Vega fairing) It wants a axial (in line/ standard) deployment.
I think it will be very difficult to mount the Grace-FO on a structure around PAZ. The F9 Fairing is to short to stack all sats on top of each other. (3 + 3 + 5 = 11m D2.4m | 3 + 5 =8m D5m)

It might be possible. Here's a roughly to-scale sketch of the PAZ envelope mounted atop the stacked GRACE-FO and Iridium dispenser envelopes:

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #49 on: 10/14/2017 01:26 PM »
envy887; I think your sketch is a bit deceiving. The stack of 5x Iridium Next + 2x Grace-FO the same length as two 5x Iridium Next on top of each other. ~6m. In your sketch the lower block looks to be ~5m high (6.6m - ~1.5m).

I found out that the Grace-FO satellites will be mounted to a cilindrical structure instead of the Galileo dual structure.
source Nasa JPL
I think that if PAZ is placed on top of this structure, the sides of PAZ and the two Grace-FO will line up. (Same width)
« Last Edit: 10/14/2017 01:29 PM by Rik ISS-fan »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #50 on: 10/21/2017 10:53 PM »
Looks like PAZ will likely be the first Vandenberg RTLS now that the next Iridium launch has switched to a drone ship landing.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #51 on: 10/26/2017 01:40 AM »
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-satellite-broadband-internet-service-2020/

So are the Starlink test birds the co-passengers?

That adds another important milestone for SpaceX in the next few months after FH, Block 5 and Dragon 2.
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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #52 on: 10/26/2017 01:41 AM »
We're assuming the SpaceX test sats are on this flight (assuming they're ready on time and have their paperwork in order by then.)

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #53 on: 10/26/2017 02:06 AM »
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-satellite-broadband-internet-service-2020/

So are the Starlink test birds the co-passengers?

That adds another important milestone for SpaceX in the next few months after FH, Block 5 and Dragon 2.

Yeah, as gongora said, the evidence we currently have points unambiguously to Microsat 2A/2B as copassengers on PAZ. Def not incontrovertible, but we would expect to see different filings if changes were being made.

Late January also fits with the info Patricia Cooper gave earlier today, of the first two test sats launching within "a few months".
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Offline soltasto

This looks like it is Mission 1400 on the FCC permits.

This permit was submitted November 28 and is the next one from Vandenberg after M1340 which is understood to be Iridium-4.

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This looks like it is Mission 1400 on the FCC permits.

This permit was submitted November 28 and is the next one from Vandenberg after M1340 which is understood to be Iridium-4.

According to this permit, I don't see anything related to the drone ship being used for the first stage landing, so it looks like an RTLS attempt will be made.
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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #56 on: 11/02/2017 05:31 PM »
This looks like it is Mission 1400 on the FCC permits.

This permit was submitted November 28 and is the next one from Vandenberg after M1340 which is understood to be Iridium-4.

According to this permit, I don't see anything related to the drone ship being used for the first stage landing, so it looks like an RTLS attempt will be made.

There will be at least two more permits for the mission.  The one linked only covers some pre-flight testing.  There will be one for launch vehicle communications, and another for first stage recovery whether it ends up being RTLS or drone ship.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #57 on: 11/22/2017 02:00 PM »
[Airbus] The PAZ satellite heads towards its launch base

Spain’s first radar satellite will be shipped next month to Vandenberg/USA ready for launch on 30 January 2018

Madrid, 22/11/2017 – The high resolution radar, Earth observation PAZ satellite, intended primarily to address civilian surveillance needs and to cover many different applications including defence and security, will say its final goodbye to Spain. It will be shipped in December 2017 to its launch site in Vandenberg Air Force Base, California, USA.

Airbus and Hisdesat, the Spanish operator of governmental satellites announce that the launch of the PAZ satellite will take place in the last week of January. Since completion in 2015, Airbus has maintained the satellite in its Barajas cleanrooms, in Madrid, ready to be launched at short notice. “We had to be ready at all times as we could have got a green light at any moment,” said José Guillamón, head of Airbus Space Systems in Spain. Close cooperation between Airbus as the prime contractor and Hisdesat as the owner and operator of the satellite has been a key factor in successfully reaching the final stages.

The PAZ satellite is equipped with an advanced radar instrument designed for high flexibility, and the capability to operate in numerous modes allowing for the choice of several different image configurations. It will be able to generate images with up to 25 cm resolution, day and night and regardless of the meteorological conditions. Designed for a mission of five and a half years, PAZ will orbit Earth 15 times per day, covering an area of over 300,000 square kilometres from an altitude of 514 kilometres and a velocity of seven kilometres per second. On its slightly inclined quasi-polar orbit, PAZ will cover the entire globe in 24 hours, serving both government and commercial needs.

PAZ also features a sophisticated Automatic Identification System (AIS), simultaneously combining for the first time ship AIS signals and SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) imagery, increasing the monitoring capacities of the maritime domain worldwide. It will also be equipped with a Radio Occultation and Heavy Precipitation experiment (ROHP) from the Institute of Space Science del Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Científicas (ICE-CSIC). For the first time ever, GNSS (Global Navigation Satellite System) Radio Occultation measurements will be taken at two polarizations, to exploit the potential capabilities of polarimetric radio occultation for detecting and quantifying heavy precipitation events.

Airbus in Spain, as prime contractor of the programme, led a team of 18 European companies. The Spanish space industry was heavily involved in the development of the advanced active sensor with SAR technology. Since the start of the programme, the PAZ satellite has been generating significant benefits for the Spanish space companies involved, allowing them to develop new capabilities to further enhance their competitiveness in the global space market. “The PAZ programme is already a success story for Spain’s industrial development, said Miguel Ángel Panduro, Head of Hisdesat. “It has created hundreds of skilled jobs over the years, and stimulated research, development and innovation activities in Spain.”

Once in space, PAZ will share the same orbit as the TerraSAR-X and TanDEM-X radar satellites. They will be operated as a very high-resolution SAR satellite constellation. The addition of this third satellite will reduce revisit time and increase acquisition capacity, leading to subsequent benefits for various applications. All three satellites feature identical ground swaths and acquisition modes. The new setup will be jointly exploited by Hisdesat and Airbus.

The SAR constellation will expand Airbus’ already broad constellation services also comprising the optical satellites SPOT 6/7, Pléiades 1A & 1B and the Disaster Monitoring Constellation (DMC). PAZ, the first Spanish Earth observation satellite, will also be a contributor to Copernicus, the European Global Monitoring for Environment and Security programme.

Notes for editors: You can download an infographic at: http://www.airbus.com/space.html#medialist-image-infographic-all_ml_0-2

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #58 on: 11/22/2017 02:11 PM »
[An earlier press release from October]

[Hisdesat] Hisdesat announces window launch of PAZ Satellite

Madrid (Spain), October 9, 2017. The General Staff of Defense, through its highest representative, the General of the Army, Fernando Alejandre Martínez (JEMAD) and accompanied by the Admiral, Francisco Javier González-Huix Fernández, Joint Chiefs of Staff (JEMACON) have visited the PAZ satellite, owned by the Spanish government satellite services company, Hisdesat. In this meeting, they learned the latest details about the satellite before moving to California for its next launch, appreciating the different key elements that make this Spanish satellite a milestone for the space industry of our country.

Hisdesat, owner of the satellite, made public last March the election of the US company Space X to put PAZ into orbit through its Falcon 9 launcher in the Vandenberg (California) area base. The launch window has already been confirmed as January 30, 2018.

The PAZ satellite incorporates as its main payload an active sensor with synthetic aperture radar technology that provides images of different sizes and resolutions, both day and night, and regardless of the weather conditions, which will allow you to provide solutions of observation of the Earth for multiple applications, both government and commercial, including those requiring very high-resolution images, below the meter. The satellite will be able to take more than 100 images per day, with which it will cover an area of more than 300,000 square kilometers per day, with high-resolution images. It will give fifteen revolutions a day to the Earth, at a height of 514 kilometers and with a speed of seven kilometers per second. Given its slightly inclined quasi-polar orbit, PAZ will cover the entire globe with an average 24-hour revisit time.

In addition, as secondary payloads, the PAZ satellite will carry on board an ICE-CSIC Radio Occultation and Extreme Precipitation experiment (ROHP) and an AIS receiver from the Canadian listed company exactEarth, of which Hisdesat is the largest shareholder, so that for the first time a merger of SAR and AIS data simultaneously can be made, which will allow to have the best possible monitoring of the maritime environment around the world. Its total estimated weight is 1400 kg., Measures 5 m. of height and has 2.4 m. diameter.

The satellite's main contractor was Airbus Defence & Space, involving a consortium of 18 Spanish companies and universities. On the other hand, the owner of the ground segment is INTA, which has had as subcontractors a Spanish industrial group headed by INDRA, GMV and DEIMOS and the German DLR.

The PAZ satellite will be located in the same orbit of the German satellites TSX and TDX to form a SAR constellation, which will be exploited by Hisdesat and Airbus DS GEO, offering a shorter time of revisit and greater number of images to our clients.

The PAZ satellite is part of the PNOTS National Earth Observation Satellite Program, with the Ingenio satellite (optical), led by the Ministry of Industry and the CDTI, being the second member of the aforementioned program.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : PAZ : SLC-4E Vandenberg : Jan. 30, 2018
« Reply #59 on: 11/30/2017 07:58 PM »
This should be for PAZ launch, NET Jan. 30:
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This STA is necessary to authorize launch vehicle communications for SpaceX Mission 1400, a commercial launch from SLC-4E, Vandenberg Air Force Base. The application includes sub-orbital first stage, and orbital second stage. Trajectory data shall be provided directly to NTIA, USAF, and NASA. All downrange Earth stations are receive-only. Launch licensing authority is FAA Office of Commercial Space Transportation.

Haven't seen the one for recovery yet.

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The FCC grant for launch vehicle communications was updated with an additional condition, I wonder if someone has been tardy filing their paperwork  :)

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[8] Prior to operating at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California, SpaceX shall ensure proper UDS documentation is established to support their operations and send a letter to 2 ROPS/DOS officially appointing schedulers to interface with the Western Range Scheduling Office. After this documentation is in place, SpaceX schedulers can coordinate and schedule operations by contacting the Western Range Scheduling Office, 2 ROPS/DOS, at Email: 2ROPS.DOS@us.af.mil or (805) 606-8825 and the Frequency Control and Analysis Center (FCAC) at 805-606-9247.
[9] This authorization SUPERSEDES the previously issued authorization with the same call sign and file number: Adds Special Condition [8].

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Spanish govt Paz civil/military radar sat, built by @AirbusSpace, is readied for airlift from Spain to Calif/VAFB for Jan 30 @SpaceX mission. 1,400-kg Paz to launch w/ 2 SpaceX microsats that will demo future broadband constellation & provide ITU registration (BIU).

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/943087366499168256

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A good sign:

SpaceX Opens Media Accreditation for PAZ Mission


HAWTHORNE, Calif. – December 22, 2017. Media accreditation is now open for SpaceX's PAZ mission from Space Launch Complex 4 East (SLC-4E) at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The launch is targeted for no earlier than late January 2018.

A flight-proven Falcon 9 will deliver PAZ to a low-Earth orbit (LEO).

A good sign:

SpaceX Opens Media Accreditation for PAZ Mission


HAWTHORNE, Calif. – December 22, 2017. Media accreditation is now open for SpaceX's PAZ mission from Space Launch Complex 4 East (SLC-4E) at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The launch is targeted for no earlier than late January 2018.

A flight-proven Falcon 9 will deliver PAZ to a low-Earth orbit (LEO).

Flight proven, excellent!
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Offline vaporcobra

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1035 and 1038 are probably the best bets for PAZ, so long as SpaceX choosing to expend 1036 later today indicates that they are trying to get rid of their Block 3 remnants.

Rather crazy. That will mean that between Oct and Feb, SpaceX may have flown eight missions with nine flight-proven boosters, out of a total of 11 missions in that period. It's almost hard to fathom how rapidly reused hardware has become a central feature of >70% of all of SpaceX's launches over a five month period. And this is all before Block 5 has been introduced...
« Last Edit: 12/22/2017 09:31 PM by vaporcobra »
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1035 and 1038 are probably the best bets for PAZ, so long as SpaceX choosing to expend 1036 later today indicates that they are trying to get rid of their Block 3 remnants.

Rather crazy. That will mean that between Oct and Feb, SpaceX may have flown eight missions with nine flight-proven boosters, out of a total of 11 missions in that period. It's almost hard to fathom how rapidly reused hardware has become a central feature of 80%+ of all of SpaceX's launches over a five month period. And this is all before Block 5 has been introduced...

I think 1038 or 1041 are the most likely, since they flew from Vandy and might be there or at Hawethorne.  1040 or 1032 are also possible. I'm not sure if 1035 is likely, it's flown twice and they seem to only want to fly them twice. However, it does have a chance since it flew 2 calm RTLS landings.
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Core B1041 is scheduled to fly Iridium-NEXT F5 next February, so B1038 is the only likely option for the Paz mission.
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Core B1041 is scheduled to fly Iridium-NEXT F5 next February, so B1038 is the only likely option for the Paz mission.

Got it. However, there's still a chance for an Eastern booster to be assigned to the mission, but 38 is pretty likely.
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Offline vaporcobra

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Core B1041 is scheduled to fly Iridium-NEXT F5 next February, so B1038 is the only likely option for the Paz mission.

Got it. However, there's still a chance for an Eastern booster to be assigned to the mission, but 38 is pretty likely.

Agreed. SpaceX has many, many boosters to choose from, so the main factors are refurbishment lead time, recovery wear and tear, and possibly Block precedent (speculative but rational).
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Have moved my comment to the Manifest and Discussion Thread 5, but the relevant bit to this thread is that I agree with Zach; I wouldn't expect them to move a booster between coasts if they don't have to, so I think 1038 is the most likely for this launch.
« Last Edit: 12/23/2017 12:17 AM by UKobserver »

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I don't see anything about a launch time in this thread. Anyone care to speculate on if we'll get another excellent RP-1 jellyfish?

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I don't see anything about a launch time in this thread. Anyone care to speculate on if we'll get another excellent RP-1 jellyfish?
As cool as it was, I suspect SpaceX may avoid doing that again unless it's absolutely necessary. We've seen one video showing a potential link with a major traffic collision, so the FAA may also step in and prohibit it outright or make SpaceX jump through a bunch of hoops.
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT)

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Wait, what? The FAA would ban launches at certain times of day? That one was a very unusual set of circumstances, not only timing but the weather had to be perfect.
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I don't see anything about a launch time in this thread. Anyone care to speculate on if we'll get another excellent RP-1 jellyfish?
As cool as it was, I suspect SpaceX may avoid doing that again unless it's absolutely necessary. We've seen one video showing a potential link with a major traffic collision, so the FAA may also step in and prohibit it outright or make SpaceX jump through a bunch of hoops.
doubt it.

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Wait, what? The FAA would ban launches at certain times of day? That one was a very unusual set of circumstances, not only timing but the weather had to be perfect.
It was indeed a very unusual set of circumstances, especially with the boostback burn and RCS thrusters visible. The launch window changed by 6? minutes every day, so moving the launch plus or minus 4 days would probably be all it would take.
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT)

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In the interest of keeping on-topic, my question was about launch times for this launch. Launching into daylight is a concern, but the Iridiums have launched morning, afternoon, and evening local times. This orbital inclination is 97.44, so it'll be launching slightly east, which would give it a bit more sunlight, but if that was the only consideration then I would expect it to be an early-morning launch. This time of year, the terminator is nearly north-south, so before it even gets halfway through its first orbit it'll be in darkness.

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... This time of year, the terminator is nearly north-south, ...
Huh?  Didn't we just pass solstice?

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... This time of year, the terminator is nearly north-south, ...
Huh?  Didn't we just pass solstice?
Yep, never mind. I was using an app that apparently doesn't render the terminator very well. So after half an orbit it'll be heading into sunrise, is that right?

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... This time of year, the terminator is nearly north-south, ...
Huh?  Didn't we just pass solstice?
Yep, never mind. I was using an app that apparently doesn't render the terminator very well. So after half an orbit it'll be heading into sunrise, is that right?
Not necessarily
To my knowledge no one here has given a time for the launch.
Therefore the relative location of the terminator is unknown.
It could launch in sunlight.
The flight path won’t differ dramatically from that of Iridium with that inclination, from the standpoint of observing from Southern California.
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

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Not necessarily
To my knowledge no one here has given a time for the launch.
Therefore the relative location of the terminator is unknown.
It could launch in sunlight.
The flight path won’t differ dramatically from that of Iridium with that inclination, from the standpoint of observing from Southern California.

This discussion made me curious, so I did a little googling.  According to the description of PAZ on Gunter's Space Page http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/paz.htm PAZ is a copy of the German TerraSAR-X and Tandem-X satellites and is intended to operate in the same orbit with them as a constellation.  On the Earth Observation Portal page on Terra SAR-X it says that it operates in a "Sun-synchronous circular dawn-dusk orbit with a local time of ascending node at 18:00 hours (± 0.25 h) equatorial crossing...."  The same site also has a page on PAZ
https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/p/paz that says that PAZ will fly the same ground track ~30 minutes ahead of TerraSAR-X and Tandem-X, so ~17:30 mean local time of ascending node. 

The launch time from Vandenberg is going to be a little before the descending node crossing time which is on the opposite side of the Earth from the ascending node, so around 5:30am.  It doesn't take long to get from Vandenberg to the equator at orbital speed, so to hit the descending node at 5:30am they will need an early morning launch a little before 5:30am-ish.  So it should be an early morning launch. On January 30th the sun rises at 7:00am, so without doing any math I think that there's a good chance that the Falcon's trajectory will take it into the sunlight while the sky is still dark and give us another cool light show.   

« Last Edit: 12/27/2017 05:59 AM by AstroBrewer »

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Given the orbital requirements for a sun-synch (thanks for that analysis, AstroBrewer) it sounds like requests to launch this particular mission at a different time would be met with a polite "no"...  as that would require plane changes, or perhaps a different orbit and a catchup, both of which would take more propellant.
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Back-lighting with light scattering (a night launch out of VAFB)  is far more spectacular than front-lighting with light reflection (a pre-dawn launch). I highly doubt that this launch will be nearly as visible, so there's almost certainly no need to change the time.

A pre-dawn launch out of the Cape would potentially be back-lit and very spectacular, but it would have to be to very high inclination  to be visible to the eastern seaboard.

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Infoespecial.com
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The satellite took off on December 28 from the Torrejon de Ardoz air base in an Antonov AN124 that took it to the Vandenberg base, where it landed a day later without setbacks.

[SpaceNews] Morocco satellite launch could accelerate Spanish space efforts
Quote
Under the plan, the satellite is to be placed on the same orbit with German TerraSAR and TanDEM-X satellites to form a SAR constellation. Hisdesat communications director Araceli Serrano told SpaceNews the launch of PAZ remains forecasted for Jan. 30. “PAZ is already in California to be prepared for this,” he said.

Serrano says the Spanish company has a duty of confidentiality in respect to SpaceX, and, due to this, it cannot reveal the value of the contract. As a 1,400 kilogram satellite, PAZ is less than a tenth the mass a Falcon 9 can carry to low Earth orbit.

Online DaveJes1979

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Serrano says the Spanish company has a duty of confidentiality in respect to SpaceX, and, due to this, it cannot reveal the value of the contract. As a 1,400 kilogram satellite, PAZ is less than a tenth the mass a Falcon 9 can carry to low Earth orbit.

I didn't realize the satellite was that light.  High chance of RTLS as long as the paperwork and red tape has been put to bed.

Online Chris Bergin

Falcon 9 PAZ/Demosat launch out of Vandenberg is slipping out of January, but nothing to do with Zuma....slip was just before Zuma's launch - so posting this to make sure the official date in Feb (when published) isn't seen as related.

Offline mme

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Serrano says the Spanish company has a duty of confidentiality in respect to SpaceX, and, due to this, it cannot reveal the value of the contract. As a 1,400 kilogram satellite, PAZ is less than a tenth the mass a Falcon 9 can carry to low Earth orbit.

I didn't realize the satellite was that light.  High chance of RTLS as long as the paperwork and red tape has been put to bed.
And if they want the core back. They may be starting to clear the decks of Block 3 and 4 boosters.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline deruch

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Serrano says the Spanish company has a duty of confidentiality in respect to SpaceX, and, due to this, it cannot reveal the value of the contract. As a 1,400 kilogram satellite, PAZ is less than a tenth the mass a Falcon 9 can carry to low Earth orbit.

I didn't realize the satellite was that light.  High chance of RTLS as long as the paperwork and red tape has been put to bed.
And if they want the core back. They may be starting to clear the decks of Block 3 and 4 boosters.
I would think it's worth it to SpaceX to recover at least 1 via RTLS even if they have an excess of cores already.  It lets them prove out their RTLS ops for VAFB and reduces the risk of losing a more valuable Block 5 core if there's some unexpected problem.  Plus, it avoids many of the additional costs incurred by an ASDS recovery.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online Norm38

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

Offline hootowls

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

Offline Zed_Noir

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

Maybe SX will announced the flight as a special effects project for one of the Marvel MCU space theme movies.  ;D

Offline Lars-J

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

I doubt it, the LA area is too far away to see landings easily... Any RTLS landing at VAFB is not going to be nearly as easy to view as at CCAFS. VAFB is a lot more secluded.

Offline russianhalo117

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

I doubt it, the LA area is too far away to see landings easily... Any RTLS landing at VAFB is not going to be nearly as easy to view as at CCAFS. VAFB is a lot more secluded.
Map view: link
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 09:21 PM by gongora »

Offline Lars-J

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

I doubt it, the LA area is too far away to see landings easily... Any RTLS landing at VAFB is not going to be nearly as easy to view as at CCAFS. VAFB is a lot more secluded.
Map view:

Exactly, LA is over a 100 miles away. Even with optimal weather, they aren't going to see much of any VAFB landing. It would be like expecting to observe an F9 landing at CCAFS from Tampa, not going to happen.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 11:23 PM by gongora »

Offline hootowls

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Sorry, guys, I wasn't clear enough.  The scope of my comments on viewing the RTLS missions started with responding to the LA scenario, then north up to Ventura, and finally to the local site in norther Santa Barbara county.  If IR-4 had been RTLS, the crazy calls to official centers would've been increasingly panicked as it tracked north, as people saw it approaching their local horizon and then those within the sonic boom footprint (which will be tens of miles). 

BTW, I'm local.   ;)

Offline RocketLover0119

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Um, no offense but I saw the Zuma landing from Tampa.... ( I kind of live there)


Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

I doubt it, the LA area is too far away to see landings easily... Any RTLS landing at VAFB is not going to be nearly as easy to view as at CCAFS. VAFB is a lot more secluded.
Map view:

Exactly, LA is over a 100 miles away. Even with optimal weather, they aren't going to see much of any VAFB landing. It would be like expecting to observe an F9 landing at CCAFS from Tampa, not going to happen.
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 11:23 PM by gongora »
"The Falcon has landed"

Offline Lars-J

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Imagine how the residents of LA will react to a sunset launch with another kerosene jellyfish, and a 1st stage coming back to RTLS.  They'll think the aliens are invading.

I'm pretty sure some of them already had that thought.

Some were also convinced part of the rocket landed in Ventura.

The RTLS missions will have the added bonus of a sonic boom whether or not the spectacle of the booster is visible.  The intensity of the overpressure will vary based on the observers' location so I'll expect to hear to varied reports coming from those landings.  An unknown light in the sky AND a loud boom - we're definitely under attack! ::)

I doubt it, the LA area is too far away to see landings easily... Any RTLS landing at VAFB is not going to be nearly as easy to view as at CCAFS. VAFB is a lot more secluded.
Map view:

Exactly, LA is over a 100 miles away. Even with optimal weather, they aren't going to see much of any VAFB landing. It would be like expecting to observe an F9 landing at CCAFS from Tampa, not going to happen.
Um, no offense but I saw the Zuma landing from Tampa.... ( I kind of live there)

I fixed your top-quote :)

A careful observer could, sure... The landing burn starts high enough. But my original comment was a response to "Imagine how the residents of LA will react"... I would bet that casual Tampa viewers did NOT flood social media with "OMG aliens are landing" posts. I would expect that you only saw it because you knew when and where to look, right?
« Last Edit: 01/10/2018 11:41 PM by Lars-J »

Offline russianhalo117

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Santa Barbara would see a great deal of it if you drive up on top of a range peak via California 154, otherwise the more North North West you travel along the PCH and California 135 the more you will see.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2018 12:04 AM by russianhalo117 »

Online gongora

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New date: February 10.  15:22 Spanish Time should be 14:22 UTC, 06:22 PST.

http://www.infodefensa.com/es/2018/01/11/noticia-satelite-lanzara-febrero.html

Sunset at Vandenberg on February 10 is 5:41 PM PST, which means that it'll be 41 minutes after sunset at the time Paz launches.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

So if the skies are clear, should one expect mass panic on the West Coast again?

Online ZachS09

Sunrise at Vandenberg on February 10th is 6:53 AM PST, which means that it'll be 31 minutes before sunrise at the time Paz launches. Here's the link to confirm this statement.

https://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/grad/solcalc/

And yes, it's possible that many LA residents will be shocked at the F9 engine plumes again and confuse it for a fictitious UFO.
« Last Edit: 01/11/2018 10:36 PM by ZachS09 »
"Liftoff of Falcon 9: the world's first reflight of an orbital-class rocket."

Offline RocketLover0119

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If they indeed attempt to land on this flight, now looking more than likely that it would RTLS per this-

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2017-12-26/pdf/2017-27761.pdf

the clearance for sonic booms been issued! ;D
"The Falcon has landed"

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