Author Topic: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)  (Read 209849 times)

Online gongora

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #660 on: 01/11/2018 02:56 PM »
Fairing transport... something must be new/larger:


Wrong, it was just a quicker way to ship the Zuma fairing to Hawthrone and back.


There is no larger fairing in work

The link above was for today's flight, which seems to have just landed.  There is a thread on Reddit about this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7pctq3/spacex_antonov_charter_flightsfairing_related/

Online abaddon

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #661 on: 01/11/2018 02:58 PM »
The fairing concern for Zuma was based on concerns discovered on a different fairing, which was confirmed to not be Iridium-4's fairing.  This new datapoint would suggest the fairing concern was related to GovSat, which just arrived...
« Last Edit: 01/11/2018 03:01 PM by abaddon »

Online AncientU

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #662 on: 01/11/2018 07:22 PM »
Fairing transport... something must be new/larger:


Wrong, it was just a quicker way to ship the Zuma fairing to Hawthrone and back.


There is no larger fairing in work

The link above was for today's flight, which seems to have just landed.  There is a thread on Reddit about this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7pctq3/spacex_antonov_charter_flightsfairing_related/

Seems to have arrived a bit late for Zuma.  Maybe that's what went wrong ;)
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline deruch

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #663 on: 01/12/2018 05:35 AM »
Fairing transport... something must be new/larger:


Wrong, it was just a quicker way to ship the Zuma fairing to Hawthrone and back.


There is no larger fairing in work

The link above was for today's flight, which seems to have just landed.  There is a thread on Reddit about this:
https://www.reddit.com/r/spacex/comments/7pctq3/spacex_antonov_charter_flightsfairing_related/

Seems to have arrived a bit late for Zuma.  Maybe that's what went wrong ;)

There were 3 Antonov flights transporting fairings.  1 from Titusville to LAX, 2 from LAX to Titusville.  So, timeline was: 

2017-11-21:  Transport Zuma fairings back to Hawthorne. 
2017-12-04:  Return Zuma fairings from Hawthorne to Titusville, post inspection/repair/replacement. 
2018-01-11:  Deliver a second set of fairings for a different mission from Hawthorne to Titusville.  (likely for SES/GovSat)
« Last Edit: 01/12/2018 05:36 AM by deruch »
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Online speedevil

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #664 on: 01/12/2018 05:58 AM »
The fairing concern for Zuma was based on concerns discovered on a different fairing, which was confirmed to not be Iridium-4's fairing.  This new datapoint would suggest the fairing concern was related to GovSat, which just arrived...

'the fairing has cameras/recovery hardware on it, and we don't want it' - I wonder.

Offline daver

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« Last Edit: 01/13/2018 03:07 AM by daver »

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #666 on: 01/13/2018 05:27 PM »
Debris washed up in North Myrtle Beach today.
  http://wpde.com/news/local/spacex-debris-washes-up-in-north-myrtle-beach
http://wncn.com/2018/01/12/debris-from-spacex-launch-washes-up-near-myrtle-beach/

Unless SpaceX has lied about the Zuma rocket performance, and the US indeed crashed with payload only a few hundred miles offshore, how could this possibly be SpaceX debris from a recent launch?

Evidence fabrication??

Edit -- ah, fairing.  Gotcha.  As Emily Latella would say, "Never mind"...
« Last Edit: 01/13/2018 05:29 PM by the_other_Doug »
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #667 on: 01/13/2018 05:29 PM »
Debris washed up in North Myrtle Beach today.
  http://wpde.com/news/local/spacex-debris-washes-up-in-north-myrtle-beach
http://wncn.com/2018/01/12/debris-from-spacex-launch-washes-up-near-myrtle-beach/

Unless SpaceX has lied about the Zuma rocket performance, and the US indeed crashed with payload only a few hundred miles offshore, how could this possibly be SpaceX debris from a recent launch?

Evidence fabrication??

That looks like one of the fairing halves to me.
« Last Edit: 01/13/2018 06:04 PM by tvg98 »

Offline Dave G

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #668 on: 01/13/2018 05:35 PM »

Offline biosehnsucht

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #669 on: 01/13/2018 07:19 PM »
Don't fairing normally take a much longer time to wash up? Surely this is not Zuma's.

Online John Santos

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #670 on: 01/13/2018 07:39 PM »
Don't fairing normally take a much longer time to wash up? Surely this is not Zuma's.

Relatively high inclination orbit for Zuma.  Launch path follows the coast northeast, not far away.  Most F9 launches are equatorial (GTO), due east from the Cape, so much farther off shore.  Most of the exceptions are Dragons, which don't have fairings.

Offline Jim

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #671 on: 01/13/2018 07:48 PM »
Don't fairing normally take a much longer time to wash up? Surely this is not Zuma's.

Relatively high inclination orbit for Zuma.  Launch path follows the coast northeast, not far away.  Most F9 launches are equatorial (GTO), due east from the Cape, so much farther off shore.  Most of the exceptions are Dragons, which don't have fairings.


NROL-76 was high inclination

Online John Santos

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #672 on: 01/13/2018 07:59 PM »
Don't fairing normally take a much longer time to wash up? Surely this is not Zuma's.

Relatively high inclination orbit for Zuma.  Launch path follows the coast northeast, not far away.  Most F9 launches are equatorial (GTO), due east from the Cape, so much farther off shore.  Most of the exceptions are Dragons, which don't have fairings.

That's why I said "most", not "all".  OTV-5 was 43 degrees.  I think these are the only 2 exceptions to the exceptions.


NROL-76 was high inclination

Online Bennett

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #673 on: 01/14/2018 05:54 PM »
Additional images of Space X fairing that washed ashore in SC. Photo credits: Horry County Police Department

Offline llanitedave

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #674 on: 01/16/2018 03:40 AM »
Looks fairly fresh.  No attached organisms?
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline Craig_VG

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #675 on: 01/17/2018 03:25 PM »
Today at the congressional hearing Hans said Dragon has abort to orbit. I haven't heard this before!

I assume it would use the Draco engines and this would only be possible at the end of 2nd stage flight as Crew Dragon doesn't have a huge delta-v budget.



Online envy887

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #676 on: 01/17/2018 03:50 PM »
Today at the congressional hearing Hans said Dragon has abort to orbit. I haven't heard this before!

I assume it would use the Draco engines and this would only be possible at the end of 2nd stage flight as Crew Dragon doesn't have a huge delta-v budget.

He said that it has the ability to activate the LES anywhere from the pad to orbit, which is not "abort to orbit" like the Shuttle used the phrase

Quote
SpaceX’s launch escape system, however, is integrated directly into the spacecraft, enabling
Crew Dragon to maintain escape capability from the launch pad all the way to orbit, which no spacecraft
in history has possessed.

https://democrats-science.house.gov/sites/democrats.science.house.gov/files/documents/Koenigsmann%20Testimony.pdf

Offline edkyle99

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #677 on: 01/17/2018 04:28 PM »
I just noticed that in the January 15 Loren Thompson hit piece in Forbes (the one in which he wrote "[a]nd now SpaceX has begun 2018 with yet another catastrophe" - even he noted that he was biased) Mr. Thompson wrote the following.

"However, in the parlance of the space business, it (Merlin 1D) doesn't scale well. So when SpaceX tests a heavier version of Falcon in the near future, its first stage will have 27 Merlin engines.  Musk himself has raised the possibility that this improbable design might not work. But it is the Falcon 9 on which SpaceX proposes to carry astronauts, beginning with the first crewed test flight later this year."

Mr. Thompson needs to do some homework, it appears.

 - Ed Kyle

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #678 on: 01/17/2018 06:28 PM »
Interesting little nugget from Hans Koenigsmann's testimony to Congress when he stated that because they get the boosters back (and presumably the Dragons) they put additional instruments on board - not clear if these were permanent design additions or one-offs to obtain particular data sets - with onboard data storage that they download later rather than in flight via the telemetry system. He claimed this as an advantage of re-use (though I suppose it's really only an advantage of recovery), partly because it doesn't overload the telemetry channels.

Offline Jcc

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Re: General Falcon and Dragon discussion (Thread 14)
« Reply #679 on: 01/17/2018 11:34 PM »
He notes at the end that the Shuttle continued to load hydrogen for 3 hours after astronauts boarded. Presumably, this was "topping off" but still an accident could have happened. But Dragon will have it's escape system armed.

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