Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 8244 times)

Online sanman

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #20 on: 12/16/2017 10:44 PM »
So I saw The Last Jedi, and thought it was interesting.

[spoilers]

I found Daisy Ridley's portrayal of Rey to be much better this time - I'll even say her acting was the best out of anyone's in this movie, including both her dramatic acting and her physical acting for the action scenes. In the previous movie she was much more wide-eyed and childish, but in this movie she was much more sober and felt like a protagonist on a journey. Maybe this could be chalked up to better directing.

It was great seeing Mark Hamill again, and his acting was good too - even though he's no Sir Alec Guinness.
I actually liked him more after Yoda shows up - that's when you see a glimpse of "young master Luke" getting some more tutelage. Was sorry to see his character fade away at the end, as I'd have preferred to see a more dramatic finish for him.

Since the previous movie has a resemblance to the original Star Wars, I was assuming this movie would likewise be patterned after ESB. I don't think I was very wrong, as we did get a Hoth-like battle.

Gee, I thought they might work in a death scene for Leia after Carrie passing away. I thought for sure that's what was happening in that scene where she gets blasted into space. It was pretty surprising to see her resurrect like that - especially given that we'd never previously seen her display any Jedi power. I assume she'll get a death scene in the next movie, or at least some explanation of Leia's death?

Boyega was about as goofy as last time, and his new Asian sidekick was okay too (gesture to China box office?)

So long Snoke, we hardly knew ye. (I liked Kylo's and Hux's joint line, "The Supreme Leader is dead, Long Live the Supreme Leader") Now that we've lost Snoke before even getting to find out who he was, it's got me curious - was he in fact Darth Plagueis, as some rumors said?

I was disappointed that Rey didn't have some special parental origin - or was Kylo deceiving her? Why would they have shown the brief flashback on her childhood, if it didn't have some greater significance? Why does she feel she's been to the Jedi Temple before?

[/spoilers]

Anyone else seen it yet?
« Last Edit: 12/16/2017 10:56 PM by sanman »

Offline Tomness

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #21 on: 12/17/2017 01:50 AM »
Loved it, won't spoil it.

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #22 on: 12/17/2017 01:52 AM »
I thought it was great, in my opinion it will likely be the "Empire Strikes Back" of the trilogy, the one people remember most.
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Online Lar

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #23 on: 12/17/2017 02:32 AM »
Mod note: At this point, if you want to do spoilers please do it the way Sanman did


[spoilers]

this is a spoiler

[/spoilers]

which is done with the following BB code (replace { } with [ ]  ) ... ([spoilers] isn't really a tag, it's just for fun)

[spoilers]
{color=#E7EAEF}
this is a spoiler
{/color}
[/spoilers]

Thanks from all who have yet to see it.
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Online Jeff Lerner

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #24 on: 12/17/2017 02:55 AM »
Saw it...thought it was great...non stop action....a lot going on with many new characters...go see it...

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #25 on: 12/17/2017 09:05 AM »
No Spoilers from me...

Now; action isn't everything - but yes; there was plenty of that. I was wearing two hats when I saw the film: A Star Wars fan for 40x years and as an ordinary moviegoer. The ordinary moviegoer in me really liked it. There was a good balance of virtues to it.

The longtime Star Wars fan - and voracious consumer of the 'Expanded Universe' that used to be canon when George Lucas owned the franchise - that longtime fan in me was mildly disappointed. I read so many novels and graphic novels; going along with the Skywalkers, Solos and many 'New Jedi Order' characters on many adventures. In the novels of the past few years, they were starting an intriguing story line about how several ancient and virtually immortal 'Force Demons' were starting to creep back into the galaxy after millennia of banishment, suspended-animation or entrapment. They could not be destroyed, only contained or cast into virtual pits; the way Satan is supposed to end up in Christian mythology. This was an interesting road the Expanded Universe was going down - Tricksters and virtual fallen angels, causing massive headaches for the peaceful 'New Republic' that was headed for a time by Leia.

In 'The Last Jedi', the arc of several characters did not go the way I thought it would - a line from the film I use here without irony. Were I writing it, I would not have had several things and characters go the way they did. Heh; but I'm just an ageing 'Fanboy' who feels a mild sense of ownership of the franchise - which made a fair bit of money out of me, I can tell you! Never mind. Was 'The Last Jedi' any good? It was certainly good enough...
« Last Edit: 12/17/2017 09:11 AM by MATTBLAK »
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Offline SwissCheese

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #26 on: 12/18/2017 09:27 AM »
I liked it a lot!

As expected there is a lot of fantastic looking action, but what I liked was the originality, modernity, good humor, and even the subtlety in the movie :)

Some people complain that it's not in the line of the previous movies... We already had 7 such movies, so I was very happy to see something different in the 8th one!

(I also liked Rogue One actually :) )

I watched Alien (terrible), Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (pathetic humor, the 1st one was so much better), Blade Runner 2049 (visually beautiful, but heh, the movie is sooooo long for such a short scenario...), so finally happy with a sci fi movie this year :)
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 09:28 AM by SwissCheese »

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #27 on: 12/18/2017 09:52 AM »
Okay, so yesterday I had the chance to watch the movie in the local cinema.

It's not a bad movie, but it's also not a great one. A typical modern movie with excessive use of graphic effects, way too much action. The good thing is that it's following the traditions of the franchise - jedi, sith, and the characters are compatible with their background. However, the storyline is an incoherent mess.

As a result, this movie, although not that bad, is a perfect representation of why I hate modern trends. My eye is satiated, but my brain is hungry for a good story.


Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #28 on: 12/18/2017 10:36 AM »
I hear you, Svetoslav. My non spoiler review essentially asked: 'Is it any good?' To which I replied: 'It's good enough'. And I know why some people really don't like it. But to disclose that here would be too much of a spoiler. Let's just say that if you were a multi-decade follower of the 'Expanded Universe' of Star Wars - like me - then you might be understandably upset. Parts of the script were brilliantly done; other parts I thought were a tad unpolished. And it didn't feel like the middle act of a trilogy to me - more like the end of one.
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Offline GWH

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #29 on: 12/18/2017 04:10 PM »
I liked it and enjoyed it.... but did leave the film with it feeling a little flat.  The lack of a story bridge from the original trilogy to this one bugs me.  Who is Snoke? Why is the 1st Order so powerful while the Republic so weak? The continued lack of back story takes away from the sense of urgency and importance of the events somewhat in my eyes.



[spoilers]

Now a major rant - that scene where Snoke's Mega Star Destroyer and half the first order fleet being blown up while gorgeous completely stepped outside of the Star Wars canon. With that one aspect of lazy writing all past and future plot lines regarding ship to ship combat are pretty much irrelevant.  Need to escape Hoth? A couple fighters making the jump to light speed to take out all the Star Destroyers. Need to blow up a Death Star? Ram a capital ship or two at light speed into it. Every weapon used is paltry in comparison.

Star Wars has never been about realistic physics – but it’s the consistency held that made it work as a story. Those ludicrous bombers early in the movie that slowly creep up and then “drop” bombs were silly to begin with. Compared as a weapon to the availability of weaponry based on relativistic physics makes those times of ships make as much sense as WW2 being fought with bows and arrows while soldiers have holstered guns.

It's like in the 2nd new Star Trek where they beam straight to a planet - lazy writing that completely negated the need for star ships.


[/spoilers]

Online RocketLover0119

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: 12/18/2017 04:38 PM »
so excited im seeing it today!!! :)
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Online Lars-J

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: 12/18/2017 06:01 PM »
I saw it, I loved it. And the more I think about it, the more it grows on me.

Does it top ESB? No. But it probably is my 2nd favorite SW film after it.

It goes in an interesting new direction, which is causing some odd fan backlash. (aside from the valid complaints, it is not a perfect film) But more like this, please!  :)
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 07:21 PM by Lars-J »

Offline Alpha Control

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: 12/18/2017 10:58 PM »
As a long-time fan, who loved the original films in the theaters back then ('77, '80, '83), I am shocked to say that I was disappointed.  I was so not expecting to be disappointed, but that's my honest reaction.  I really enjoyed Ep. 7 "Force Awakens", and thought it honorably handled both old and new characters.

This new film does not, in my view.  The new characters largely feel forced. The humor feels 'Disneyfied'. Finn's storyline with his particular mission felt totally tangential.  I found myself wanting to get back to the storyline of Rey/Luke/Kylo every time we went elsewhere.

I have to say the Empire Strikes Back remains the peak of the series for me, and this new film falls far short.
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 10:59 PM by Alpha Control »
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Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: 12/19/2017 03:06 AM »
As a long-time fan, who loved the original films in the theaters back then ('77, '80, '83), I am shocked to say that I was disappointed.  I was so not expecting to be disappointed, but that's my honest reaction.  I really enjoyed Ep. 7 "Force Awakens", and thought it honorably handled both old and new characters.

This new film does not, in my view.  The new characters largely feel forced. The humor feels 'Disneyfied'. Finn's storyline with his particular mission felt totally tangential.  I found myself wanting to get back to the storyline of Rey/Luke/Kylo every time we went elsewhere.

I have to say the Empire Strikes Back remains the peak of the series for me, and this new film falls far short.

Pretty much exactly the way I feel.  It pretty much took everything from Ep.7 and just tossed it away.  But, I did like the return of someone.

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: 12/19/2017 07:25 AM »
Hey, perhaps we should just start a new thread titled ... Star Wars: The Last Jedi -- SPOILERS?

[spoilers]

I noticed the same plot hole with the single ship taking out all those star destroyers.

Seems to me it could have been easy to fix. For example, the hacker guy had already demonstrated the star destroyer shield was hackable. He could have sold the same trick to the rebels. Or that little robot BB-8 could have stolen the trick off him?

[/spoilers]

Online sanman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: 12/19/2017 03:24 PM »
I liked it and enjoyed it.... but did leave the film with it feeling a little flat.  The lack of a story bridge from the original trilogy to this one bugs me.  Who is Snoke? Why is the 1st Order so powerful while the Republic so weak? The continued lack of back story takes away from the sense of urgency and importance of the events somewhat in my eyes.

(Sigh)... I wanted to be more respectful to the franchise, but here comes my rant:

[rant]



I'm afraid I have to agree with you here. I've tried to like it, but as a fanboy I've ended up wishing it could have been better. It's like the storytelling is under the control of bean-counters who decided that because the original trilogy was such a success, then the new one had to roughly/mechanically recapitulate the original.
Doing things that way isn't inspired storytelling -- it's paint-by-the-numbers.

The previous Force Awakens movie simply tossed us into a world that was reminiscent of the original Star Wars movie, without telling us how things had conveniently been reset back to such a similar situation. But we accepted  this new "Son of Star Wars"  because they dangled a lot of lore and nostalgia in our faces. They pimped the Millennium Falcon for us to ogle once more. The latest movie simply discarded much of the previous setup (eg. Snoke, as well as the mystery of Rey's origins) to run with the latest director's instincts. This has resulted in a hodge-podge that felt thrown together.

By contrast, the Rogue One movie seemed like a pleasant surprise. That movie obviously wasn't paint-by-the-numbers, and felt more inspired. Fans were genuinely delighted by it.

On an emotional level, Luke Skywalker was the greatest and most central hero of the canonical Star Wars universe. He was the kid we all started out with, when we as fans embarked on this rollercoaster ride. Even if he later turned into a washed up old man, I still wanted and expected to see some kind of deeper redemption for him than what we got.

The bean-counters (the new filmmakers) reduced him to a side-character to be quickly sacrificed in the interest of having the more newly-minted (and freshly merchandisable) characters to take over. Sorry, but I don't agree with perfunctorily casting aside much beloved characters like last year's fashion. Fine, some characters may have to fall by the wayside, but I expected Luke to go the distance. While Rey doesn't feel like a total Mary Sue anymore, she still doesn't feel like The One. With Luke gone, the next movie is going to feel an awful lot like Hamlet without the Prince of Denmark. If they had to make him go, then they should have had him go out in a much bigger blaze of glory that was more impactful, consequential and spiritually meaningful.

The Force was less strong in this film -- or far weaker than it should have been.

[/rant]
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 03:31 PM by sanman »

Online Lars-J

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: 12/19/2017 04:43 PM »
Sanman,
[spoilers]

Your rant does not make much sense to me, but it does seem similar to opinions by a large number of fans who simply do not (IMO) understand what the new trilogy is about, or who the main characters are. The old timers (Han, Luke, Leia) are supporting players. You expected Luke to 'go the distance'? What distance - for how many movies? This was was never a trilogy about Luke. This two main characters are Rey and Kylo. Everyone else is supporting.

And don't worry, if you want to see more of Luke... Luke will be back as a force ghost. And if Yoda is anything to go by, he could be a very influential force ghost for either Rey or Kylo - or both.

And your earlier complaint about it being 'paint by numbers'... you displeasure at the plot proves that it is exactly the opposite. TFO was certainly paint bu numbers. This is not. Yes, there are callbacks to both Empire and Jedi in the film, but unlike TFA there are some twists.

I think the themes of handling failure (and learning from it), and how greatness is what you do, not what is passed down to you - Are such a welcome breath of fresh air. And we are finally moving past everything having to be about the Skywalkers, and that is welcome to me. Sure, Kylo is still Skywalker lineage, and Luke will be force-ghosting again, but this trilogy is the transition away from that. And I say, bring it on... The SW galaxy is vast, no need to center on just a few characters.

[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 04:46 PM by Lars-J »

Offline GWH

Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: 12/19/2017 05:57 PM »
[spoilers]

The SW galaxy is vast, no need to center on just a few characters.

[/spoilers]

[Spoilers!]

The SW galaxy IS vast, yet it feels so small in these new movies. The First Order and the Resistance - ugh. Throwaway factions as a plot device to recreate the feeling of the rebels vs empire without any reason given for their existence.  The Republic is HUGE, yet somehow one planet gets blown up and everyone just gives up aside from this small handful? Gone are the lines of  "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"? Or the 1st Order took over everything long ago? Who knows. 

I liked this movie, I liked the last one, but just as a single viewing... not much on the 2nd viewing for TFA. Thinking in retrospect the new series feels like it is largely vapid entertainment supplemented by feelings of nostalgia. Good for a first viewing but not for building up deep and dynamic fictional universe. (Note that  I LOVED Rogue One, which was a spin off of the original series and added to the depth).

You make very good points on the themes of handling failure and growing into greatness, I hope they build on what the Jedi are and can be... move from less black and white to more grey areas.  I think the failure of the Jedi, with their rigid views of a monk like existence, allowed for an emotional young Anakin helped make him so vulnerable to Palpatine, and the Jedi so blind to everything.  Maybe they will take that theme and really build it into something new. I hope so, and that these themes aren't just discarded by the next director.

As much as the prequel movies have been maligned, and failed to deliver quality entertainment through 1/2 the total running time, they did build to create an epic tale. The set up of Palpatine and the Sith engineering a conflict that led to a galaxy wide military build up, people discarding freedoms in exchange for personal security, the handing of unlimited power to a single government - that was truly epic. That not only had depth in terms of social and political issues but set the stage for an entire galaxy can fall into oppression, and the urgency in liberation from it.   The new movies seem like they want to emulate that story, but not actually put in any work to do so. The casino scene while blatant at least did take steps to opening things up to a bigger picture.

Overall while I was entertained I'm left with feelings of apathy, no real sense of attachment to the conflict presented on the screen because it all feels so contrived. Created solely for the purpose of manufacturing movies that entertain once but weren't created with the intent of create something meaningful and greater than its individual parts. 

[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 06:01 PM by GWH »

Online Mnethercutt

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: 12/19/2017 08:30 PM »
As a long-time fan, who loved the original films in the theaters back then ('77, '80, '83), I am shocked to say that I was disappointed.  I was so not expecting to be disappointed, but that's my honest reaction.  I really enjoyed Ep. 7 "Force Awakens", and thought it honorably handled both old and new characters.

This new film does not, in my view.  The new characters largely feel forced. The humor feels 'Disneyfied'. Finn's storyline with his particular mission felt totally tangential.  I found myself wanting to get back to the storyline of Rey/Luke/Kylo every time we went elsewhere.

I have to say the Empire Strikes Back remains the peak of the series for me, and this new film falls far short.

Pretty much exactly the way I feel.  It pretty much took everything from Ep.7 and just tossed it away.  But, I did like the return of someone.

Saw it today.  Have to say I agree with both of you.  While I wasn't around for the original trilogy, I've been a fan of the films since I first saw them as a child, and I have to say this was a disappointment for me. 

To describe it in one word, I would have to say "Weird".

It seemed to break off from the rest of the films and throw in so many new things we had never seen before that to me, didn't make any sense at all.  I won't spoil anything, but I left the theater disappointed and am content with pretending that Star Wars ended at the end of Episode 6.
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Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: 12/19/2017 09:38 PM »
Well, I saw it again today with a friend.  He had not seen it yet, and while he felt disappointed, I actually enjoyed it a bit more, but still not enough to call it anywhere near the best Star Wars movie.  I am hoping, Episode 9 brings everything together, and will make this movie seem better.  But that should not be necessary.  I think Empire Strikes Back was a great middle of a trilogy. And frankly, I like Attack of the Clones a lot more than this movie as a middle. 

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