Author Topic: Star Wars: The Last Jedi  (Read 13834 times)

Offline Scylla

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« on: 06/07/2016 03:32 PM »
A little early to start a thread for this but, I couldn't resist posting this. Besides with Star Wars Celebration in less than a month, Episode VIII stuff will soon start dropping anyway.

Coming out in the next Mad Magazine.
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/

The First Order Wants You! Do you have what it takes to be a Stormtrooper?
« Last Edit: 12/16/2017 11:06 PM by gongora »
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Offline Scylla

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Re: STAR WARS:EPISODE VIII
« Reply #1 on: 01/23/2017 04:31 PM »
Title for Episode VIII has been released.

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Offline catdlr

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Re: STAR WARS:EPISODE VIII
« Reply #2 on: 01/23/2017 08:30 PM »
The new Star Wars movie finally gets a name

CNET

Published on Jan 23, 2017
Lucasfilm revealed the official title of the sequel to "The Force Awakens" on the starwars.com website, along with its December release date.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMTU_X8tkF4?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

Offline kch

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Re: STAR WARS:EPISODE VIII
« Reply #3 on: 01/23/2017 08:39 PM »
Title for Episode VIII has been released.

Well, 'eck -- I *was* really looking forward to "The Force Hits The Snooze Bar" ... but this'll work, too.  ;D

Offline Star One

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Re: STAR WARS:EPISODE VIII
« Reply #4 on: 01/23/2017 08:52 PM »
Red lettering that's a rarity.

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: STAR WARS:EPISODE VIII
« Reply #5 on: 01/26/2017 12:36 PM »
The red lettering is an obvious gesture towards the 'dark episode of this trilogy' expectations.

From what I've heard (and this is mostly rumour) it's going to at least explain what Luke did for the last twenty+ years after his dad popped his clogs.
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Offline Scylla

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Re: STAR WARS:EPISODE VIII
« Reply #6 on: 01/26/2017 04:06 PM »
Preview of upcoming interview of Rian Johnson in Empire magazine.
http://www.empireonline.com/movies/features/rian-johnson-last-jedi-interview/


How are things going on Episode VIII?

Great! We’re in the thick of editing, really digging into it. It’s taking shape and I’m very excited.



Name three non-Star Wars films you watched in preparation.

Twelve O’Clock High was a big touchstone, for the feel and look of the aerial combat as well as the dynamic between the pilots. Three Outlaw Samurai for the feel of the sword-fighting, and the general sense of pulpy fun. And To Catch A Thief was a great film to rewatch, for the romantic scale and grandeur.


What are your memories of the first day of shooting?

Our first day of shooting was actually several months before principal photography began: we had three days on Skellig Michael island. So not only was it day one of Star Wars on this incredible natural location, but because the island was so inaccessible it was a very stripped-down, run-and-gun crew. Pretty much the perfect start to the whole adventure.



What is the hardest thing about writing Star Wars dialogue?

I found myself constantly wanting to push modern idioms into the dialogue, and sometimes that can work, but you have to be very careful. If you go too far you can break that Star Wars spell. The other challenge is the tech talk, which has to be simultaneously complex enough to sound real and conceptually simple enough to follow. The original films were brilliant at that.



You played Imperial Officer In Firing Chamber in Rogue One. What was that experience like?

It was so much fun. I was jealous of my producer Ram [Bergman] — he got to wear the full Daft Punk helmet. Also it was great because we knew we couldn’t get cut out of the movie! The ONE THING they absolutely have to do is fire the Death Star!


What surprised you most about directing a Star Wars film?

I guess the biggest surprise was the intimacy of the process. It’s huge, sure, and it’s filled with pressures great and small. But at the end of the day, it boils down to the same things as the smaller films we’ve made: telling a story we care about with a camera and some actors. And a Wookiee.
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Offline Scylla

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #7 on: 04/14/2017 04:05 PM »
TRAILER

« Last Edit: 04/14/2017 04:07 PM by Scylla »
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Offline Scylla

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #8 on: 07/15/2017 07:26 PM »
Star Wars: The Last Jedi Behind The Scenes
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Offline Scylla

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #9 on: 10/10/2017 12:40 AM »
Theatrical Poster

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Offline Scylla

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #10 on: 10/10/2017 02:15 AM »
Star Wars: The Last Jedi Trailer (Official)

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Online sanman

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #11 on: 10/10/2017 10:48 AM »
Just speculating, but the trailer seems to show some kind of connection between Rey and Kylo, just from the way it cuts back and forth between them.
So are Rey and Kylo siblings separated at birth, the way Luke and Leia were?
Kylo is Han and Leia's son, so it seems odd that Han and Leia wouldn't know that they had another daughter. We saw some brief flashbacks from Rey in Force Awakens, of her being abandoned on Jakku. Who abandoned her - was it Luke?

When Luke said he'd seen such raw power before, I'm assuming he was referring to Kylo while speaking to Rey.
Kylo does seem to embody that kind of raw impulsiveness. And of course the deep voice we first hear at the start of the trailer is Snoke speaking to Kylo.

So are Rey and Kylo polar opposites, like yin and yang? I remember when journalist Bill Moyers interviewed George Lucas, he did explicitly refer to Lucas' use of Asian themes relating to balance and harmony.
On the other hand, if Rey does have a connection to Kylo, then it might cause her to doubt her own character (ie. is she doomed to go to the Dark Side like Kylo did?)

Maybe, it will instead be Rey who redeems Kylo from the Dark Side.

Online llanitedave

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #12 on: 10/11/2017 02:54 PM »
And they lived happily ever after...
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Online sanman

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #13 on: 10/12/2017 01:38 AM »
Haha - well, it may take multiple movies for harmony to be restored in the Force.

The trailer seems to foreshadow Leia's death at the hands of son Kylo. Wow, both parents must have wondered what they did wrong in bringing up their son. Was it just a case of too many midichlorians maketh the kid go mad?

And yet Rey seems to have that comparable adeptness with the Force, while having reasonable control over herself. And then we see glimpses of her being put under duress, like post-Dagobah Luke at the end of ESB.

Force Awakens was called a re-tread of the original Star Wars, with Abrams said to be re-hashing the same basic formula as the original in order to revive the saga.
Will The Last Jedi similarly be a re-tread of ESB?

Online MATTBLAK

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #14 on: 10/12/2017 02:08 AM »
Disney/Lucasfilm would never admit it; but they appear to be riffing on some of the 'Expanded Universe' story ideas from the novels and comics since 1991 when Timothy Zahn kicked it off with "Heir To The Empire". The Expanded Universe books were actually quite good - for the most part - but lost their way a little with the 'New Jedi Order' series and the Yuuzhan-Vong invasion. Ben Solo/Kylo Ren is a bit of a composite character, reminding me strongly of a cross between Jacen Solo/Darth Cadeus and Kyp Durron. The only difference is how their characters ended. I found it a bit implausible in the novels how Kyp Durron went on a Dark Side rampage, killing masses of people with a super weapon then gets redeemed later - back to the 'Light Side' - and all is forgiven?! Surely he'd be executed or locked up forever for war crimes? Jacen Solo/Darth Cadeus had a much unhappier ending, having a close loved one have to be the one who finished him - but his death revealed a huge prophecy that didn't get to be portrayed as the Disney acquisition halted the story lines from the Expanded Universe.

I think the Rey and Ben Solo characters are well done; but it's going to take awhile for them to become 'beloved canon characters'.
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Online sanman

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #15 on: 10/12/2017 05:27 AM »
I remember reading Timothy Zahn's books when they first came out - Admiral Thrawn was a great villain, as a 2nd-tier baddy who'd been waiting in the wings like Tarkin.

One thing I haven't liked about the current revival is that they've given us a universe where the Empire still magiconveniently seems like it's in charge, as if the events in Return of the Jedi barely mattered, and we're told to accept it without any explanation or backstory. ("The Emperor is Dead! Long Live the Emperor!")

If you compare that with A New Hope, at least then the uninitiated audience had no prior expectations stemming from previous installments of the saga which did not as yet exist. I feel like they should have put out some supporting material, perhaps on other media (comics, video shorts, etc) to put the new continuity in context. Abrams simply tried to recapitulate the same expositional style as the original New Hope, without seeing that the audience is no longer the same as they were for the original.

I wish George Lucas hadn't sold the franchise, or that he could have been kept in charge instead of JJ Abrams - or that he could have at least been kept on as an advisor. Just as Brannon Braga seems to know more about the spirit of Star Trek than Abrams does, likewise Lucas knows more about the soul of Star Wars. By comparison, Rogue One seemed more inspired.

I like the idea of Luke Skywalker now coming full circle and becoming the teacher, as Obi-Wan and Yoda were before him. For nostalgia's sake, I'd like to see him once again doing battle as a Jedi, even piloting an X-wing. Hopefully, we'll at least get some scene where the old master impresses the young student - like when Kenobi chops off the thug's arm in the Cantina, or when Yoda raises the X-wing. If Abrams intends to do a re-tread of ESB, then he has to give us a comparable scene like the one on Dagobah - which was one of the best scenes in the entire trilogy. But the thing is that Rey doesn't come across as a skeptic who has to be won over, the way Luke was towards Yoda. So far, they haven't exposed enough flaws in her to set up a convincing rite of passage.
« Last Edit: 10/12/2017 06:35 AM by sanman »

Offline Star One

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STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #16 on: 10/12/2017 07:52 AM »
Is this birth of the so called grey Jedi those who sit in the middle of the force. More realistic as characters being neither totally good nor bad but a mix of the two.

Tom Baker’s character in Rebels sat in the middle of the force and could seemingly use abilities from both sides.
« Last Edit: 10/12/2017 07:54 AM by Star One »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #17 on: 10/13/2017 08:17 AM »
Tom Baker’s character in Rebels sat in the middle of the force and could seemingly use abilities from both sides.

But, significantly, showed all the bad qualities of both sides of Force adepts too - The irritating smug passivity of Lightsiders and (in the season 3 finale) the uncontrollable and omnidirectional homicidal rage of darksiders.
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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #18 on: 10/13/2017 10:24 AM »
As I was discussing with someone earlier; Rey's origins seem to point to four possibilities - 1: She's a Kenobi descendant, 2: She's Ben Solo's secret, lost twin (Meh!), 3: She's a reincarnation of 'The Chosen One' (slight Meh) or 4: - my idea - she's a Palpatine descendant. This would be my favourite idea. Of course, the fifth alternative is that she's just a very gifted nobody.

I remember George Lucas saying more than once in interviews that 'Star Wars is about family'. I don't know how much Disney is going to pay attention to that, but it could be a clue.
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Online sanman

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #19 on: 10/13/2017 11:35 AM »
As I was discussing with someone earlier; Rey's origins seem to point to four possibilities - 1: She's a Kenobi descendant, 2: She's Ben Solo's secret, lost twin (Meh!), 3: She's a reincarnation of 'The Chosen One' (slight Meh) or 4: - my idea - she's a Palpatine descendant. This would be my favourite idea. Of course, the fifth alternative is that she's just a very gifted nobody.

I remember George Lucas saying more than once in interviews that 'Star Wars is about family'. I don't know how much Disney is going to pay attention to that, but it could be a clue.

Well, it's hard for me to believe that those flashback scenes of little Rey being left on Dakku were just gratuitous. She's definitely not some nobody with inconsequential origins. Somebody was leaving her there on Dakku, and it wasn't the dead Obi-Wan (although we did hear Obi-Wan's voice beckoning her at the start of her flashback.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rey_(Star_Wars)#Creation_and_casting

Quote
Former Star Wars: Episode IX director Colin Trevorrow has stated that the answer of Rey's origin will be "deeply and profoundly satisfying" and that Rey is "important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy. She deserves it." Ridley said that she knows who Rey's parents are.

I dunno - maybe she's a reincarnation of Anakin's dead mother? That could be satisfying.

But there are claims that she's the reincarnation of someone else:

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/16/star-wars-episode-8-leak-reveals-reys-origins-and-connection-to-the-jedi-5947639/



« Last Edit: 10/13/2017 11:39 AM by sanman »

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Re: STAR WARS:THE LAST JEDI
« Reply #20 on: 12/16/2017 10:44 PM »
So I saw The Last Jedi, and thought it was interesting.

[spoilers]

I found Daisy Ridley's portrayal of Rey to be much better this time - I'll even say her acting was the best out of anyone's in this movie, including both her dramatic acting and her physical acting for the action scenes. In the previous movie she was much more wide-eyed and childish, but in this movie she was much more sober and felt like a protagonist on a journey. Maybe this could be chalked up to better directing.

It was great seeing Mark Hamill again, and his acting was good too - even though he's no Sir Alec Guinness.
I actually liked him more after Yoda shows up - that's when you see a glimpse of "young master Luke" getting some more tutelage. Was sorry to see his character fade away at the end, as I'd have preferred to see a more dramatic finish for him.

Since the previous movie has a resemblance to the original Star Wars, I was assuming this movie would likewise be patterned after ESB. I don't think I was very wrong, as we did get a Hoth-like battle.

Gee, I thought they might work in a death scene for Leia after Carrie passing away. I thought for sure that's what was happening in that scene where she gets blasted into space. It was pretty surprising to see her resurrect like that - especially given that we'd never previously seen her display any Jedi power. I assume she'll get a death scene in the next movie, or at least some explanation of Leia's death?

Boyega was about as goofy as last time, and his new Asian sidekick was okay too (gesture to China box office?)

So long Snoke, we hardly knew ye. (I liked Kylo's and Hux's joint line, "The Supreme Leader is dead, Long Live the Supreme Leader") Now that we've lost Snoke before even getting to find out who he was, it's got me curious - was he in fact Darth Plagueis, as some rumors said?

I was disappointed that Rey didn't have some special parental origin - or was Kylo deceiving her? Why would they have shown the brief flashback on her childhood, if it didn't have some greater significance? Why does she feel she's been to the Jedi Temple before?

[/spoilers]

Anyone else seen it yet?
« Last Edit: 12/16/2017 10:56 PM by sanman »

Offline Tomness

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #21 on: 12/17/2017 01:50 AM »
Loved it, won't spoil it.

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #22 on: 12/17/2017 01:52 AM »
I thought it was great, in my opinion it will likely be the "Empire Strikes Back" of the trilogy, the one people remember most.

Offline Lar

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #23 on: 12/17/2017 02:32 AM »
Mod note: At this point, if you want to do spoilers please do it the way Sanman did


[spoilers]

this is a spoiler

[/spoilers]

which is done with the following BB code (replace { } with [ ]  ) ... ([spoilers] isn't really a tag, it's just for fun)

[spoilers]
{color=#E7EAEF}
this is a spoiler
{/color}
[/spoilers]

Thanks from all who have yet to see it.
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Offline Jeff Lerner

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #24 on: 12/17/2017 02:55 AM »
Saw it...thought it was great...non stop action....a lot going on with many new characters...go see it...

Online MATTBLAK

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #25 on: 12/17/2017 09:05 AM »
No Spoilers from me...

Now; action isn't everything - but yes; there was plenty of that. I was wearing two hats when I saw the film: A Star Wars fan for 40x years and as an ordinary moviegoer. The ordinary moviegoer in me really liked it. There was a good balance of virtues to it.

The longtime Star Wars fan - and voracious consumer of the 'Expanded Universe' that used to be canon when George Lucas owned the franchise - that longtime fan in me was mildly disappointed. I read so many novels and graphic novels; going along with the Skywalkers, Solos and many 'New Jedi Order' characters on many adventures. In the novels of the past few years, they were starting an intriguing story line about how several ancient and virtually immortal 'Force Demons' were starting to creep back into the galaxy after millennia of banishment, suspended-animation or entrapment. They could not be destroyed, only contained or cast into virtual pits; the way Satan is supposed to end up in Christian mythology. This was an interesting road the Expanded Universe was going down - Tricksters and virtual fallen angels, causing massive headaches for the peaceful 'New Republic' that was headed for a time by Leia.

In 'The Last Jedi', the arc of several characters did not go the way I thought it would - a line from the film I use here without irony. Were I writing it, I would not have had several things and characters go the way they did. Heh; but I'm just an ageing 'Fanboy' who feels a mild sense of ownership of the franchise - which made a fair bit of money out of me, I can tell you! Never mind. Was 'The Last Jedi' any good? It was certainly good enough...
« Last Edit: 12/17/2017 09:11 AM by MATTBLAK »
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Offline SwissCheese

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #26 on: 12/18/2017 09:27 AM »
I liked it a lot!

As expected there is a lot of fantastic looking action, but what I liked was the originality, modernity, good humor, and even the subtlety in the movie :)

Some people complain that it's not in the line of the previous movies... We already had 7 such movies, so I was very happy to see something different in the 8th one!

(I also liked Rogue One actually :) )

I watched Alien (terrible), Guardians of the Galaxy 2 (pathetic humor, the 1st one was so much better), Blade Runner 2049 (visually beautiful, but heh, the movie is sooooo long for such a short scenario...), so finally happy with a sci fi movie this year :)
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 09:28 AM by SwissCheese »

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #27 on: 12/18/2017 09:52 AM »
Okay, so yesterday I had the chance to watch the movie in the local cinema.

It's not a bad movie, but it's also not a great one. A typical modern movie with excessive use of graphic effects, way too much action. The good thing is that it's following the traditions of the franchise - jedi, sith, and the characters are compatible with their background. However, the storyline is an incoherent mess.

As a result, this movie, although not that bad, is a perfect representation of why I hate modern trends. My eye is satiated, but my brain is hungry for a good story.


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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #28 on: 12/18/2017 10:36 AM »
I hear you, Svetoslav. My non spoiler review essentially asked: 'Is it any good?' To which I replied: 'It's good enough'. And I know why some people really don't like it. But to disclose that here would be too much of a spoiler. Let's just say that if you were a multi-decade follower of the 'Expanded Universe' of Star Wars - like me - then you might be understandably upset. Parts of the script were brilliantly done; other parts I thought were a tad unpolished. And it didn't feel like the middle act of a trilogy to me - more like the end of one.
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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #29 on: 12/18/2017 04:10 PM »
I liked it and enjoyed it.... but did leave the film with it feeling a little flat.  The lack of a story bridge from the original trilogy to this one bugs me.  Who is Snoke? Why is the 1st Order so powerful while the Republic so weak? The continued lack of back story takes away from the sense of urgency and importance of the events somewhat in my eyes.



[spoilers]

Now a major rant - that scene where Snoke's Mega Star Destroyer and half the first order fleet being blown up while gorgeous completely stepped outside of the Star Wars canon. With that one aspect of lazy writing all past and future plot lines regarding ship to ship combat are pretty much irrelevant.  Need to escape Hoth? A couple fighters making the jump to light speed to take out all the Star Destroyers. Need to blow up a Death Star? Ram a capital ship or two at light speed into it. Every weapon used is paltry in comparison.

Star Wars has never been about realistic physics – but it’s the consistency held that made it work as a story. Those ludicrous bombers early in the movie that slowly creep up and then “drop” bombs were silly to begin with. Compared as a weapon to the availability of weaponry based on relativistic physics makes those times of ships make as much sense as WW2 being fought with bows and arrows while soldiers have holstered guns.

It's like in the 2nd new Star Trek where they beam straight to a planet - lazy writing that completely negated the need for star ships.


[/spoilers]

Online RocketLover0119

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #30 on: 12/18/2017 04:38 PM »
so excited im seeing it today!!! :)
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Offline Lars-J

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #31 on: 12/18/2017 06:01 PM »
I saw it, I loved it. And the more I think about it, the more it grows on me.

Does it top ESB? No. But it probably is my 2nd favorite SW film after it.

It goes in an interesting new direction, which is causing some odd fan backlash. (aside from the valid complaints, it is not a perfect film) But more like this, please!  :)
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 07:21 PM by Lars-J »

Offline Alpha Control

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #32 on: 12/18/2017 10:58 PM »
As a long-time fan, who loved the original films in the theaters back then ('77, '80, '83), I am shocked to say that I was disappointed.  I was so not expecting to be disappointed, but that's my honest reaction.  I really enjoyed Ep. 7 "Force Awakens", and thought it honorably handled both old and new characters.

This new film does not, in my view.  The new characters largely feel forced. The humor feels 'Disneyfied'. Finn's storyline with his particular mission felt totally tangential.  I found myself wanting to get back to the storyline of Rey/Luke/Kylo every time we went elsewhere.

I have to say the Empire Strikes Back remains the peak of the series for me, and this new film falls far short.
« Last Edit: 12/18/2017 10:59 PM by Alpha Control »
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Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #33 on: 12/19/2017 03:06 AM »
As a long-time fan, who loved the original films in the theaters back then ('77, '80, '83), I am shocked to say that I was disappointed.  I was so not expecting to be disappointed, but that's my honest reaction.  I really enjoyed Ep. 7 "Force Awakens", and thought it honorably handled both old and new characters.

This new film does not, in my view.  The new characters largely feel forced. The humor feels 'Disneyfied'. Finn's storyline with his particular mission felt totally tangential.  I found myself wanting to get back to the storyline of Rey/Luke/Kylo every time we went elsewhere.

I have to say the Empire Strikes Back remains the peak of the series for me, and this new film falls far short.

Pretty much exactly the way I feel.  It pretty much took everything from Ep.7 and just tossed it away.  But, I did like the return of someone.

Online KelvinZero

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #34 on: 12/19/2017 07:25 AM »
Hey, perhaps we should just start a new thread titled ... Star Wars: The Last Jedi -- SPOILERS?

[spoilers]

I noticed the same plot hole with the single ship taking out all those star destroyers.

Seems to me it could have been easy to fix. For example, the hacker guy had already demonstrated the star destroyer shield was hackable. He could have sold the same trick to the rebels. Or that little robot BB-8 could have stolen the trick off him?

[/spoilers]

Online sanman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #35 on: 12/19/2017 03:24 PM »
I liked it and enjoyed it.... but did leave the film with it feeling a little flat.  The lack of a story bridge from the original trilogy to this one bugs me.  Who is Snoke? Why is the 1st Order so powerful while the Republic so weak? The continued lack of back story takes away from the sense of urgency and importance of the events somewhat in my eyes.

(Sigh)... I wanted to be more respectful to the franchise, but here comes my rant:

[rant]



I'm afraid I have to agree with you here. I've tried to like it, but as a fanboy I've ended up wishing it could have been better. It's like the storytelling is under the control of bean-counters who decided that because the original trilogy was such a success, then the new one had to roughly/mechanically recapitulate the original.
Doing things that way isn't inspired storytelling -- it's paint-by-the-numbers.

The previous Force Awakens movie simply tossed us into a world that was reminiscent of the original Star Wars movie, without telling us how things had conveniently been reset back to such a similar situation. But we accepted  this new "Son of Star Wars"  because they dangled a lot of lore and nostalgia in our faces. They pimped the Millennium Falcon for us to ogle once more. The latest movie simply discarded much of the previous setup (eg. Snoke, as well as the mystery of Rey's origins) to run with the latest director's instincts. This has resulted in a hodge-podge that felt thrown together.

By contrast, the Rogue One movie seemed like a pleasant surprise. That movie obviously wasn't paint-by-the-numbers, and felt more inspired. Fans were genuinely delighted by it.

On an emotional level, Luke Skywalker was the greatest and most central hero of the canonical Star Wars universe. He was the kid we all started out with, when we as fans embarked on this rollercoaster ride. Even if he later turned into a washed up old man, I still wanted and expected to see some kind of deeper redemption for him than what we got.

The bean-counters (the new filmmakers) reduced him to a side-character to be quickly sacrificed in the interest of having the more newly-minted (and freshly merchandisable) characters to take over. Sorry, but I don't agree with perfunctorily casting aside much beloved characters like last year's fashion. Fine, some characters may have to fall by the wayside, but I expected Luke to go the distance. While Rey doesn't feel like a total Mary Sue anymore, she still doesn't feel like The One. With Luke gone, the next movie is going to feel an awful lot like Hamlet without the Prince of Denmark. If they had to make him go, then they should have had him go out in a much bigger blaze of glory that was more impactful, consequential and spiritually meaningful.

The Force was less strong in this film -- or far weaker than it should have been.

[/rant]
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 03:31 PM by sanman »

Offline Lars-J

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #36 on: 12/19/2017 04:43 PM »
Sanman,
[spoilers]

Your rant does not make much sense to me, but it does seem similar to opinions by a large number of fans who simply do not (IMO) understand what the new trilogy is about, or who the main characters are. The old timers (Han, Luke, Leia) are supporting players. You expected Luke to 'go the distance'? What distance - for how many movies? This was was never a trilogy about Luke. This two main characters are Rey and Kylo. Everyone else is supporting.

And don't worry, if you want to see more of Luke... Luke will be back as a force ghost. And if Yoda is anything to go by, he could be a very influential force ghost for either Rey or Kylo - or both.

And your earlier complaint about it being 'paint by numbers'... you displeasure at the plot proves that it is exactly the opposite. TFO was certainly paint bu numbers. This is not. Yes, there are callbacks to both Empire and Jedi in the film, but unlike TFA there are some twists.

I think the themes of handling failure (and learning from it), and how greatness is what you do, not what is passed down to you - Are such a welcome breath of fresh air. And we are finally moving past everything having to be about the Skywalkers, and that is welcome to me. Sure, Kylo is still Skywalker lineage, and Luke will be force-ghosting again, but this trilogy is the transition away from that. And I say, bring it on... The SW galaxy is vast, no need to center on just a few characters.

[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 04:46 PM by Lars-J »

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #37 on: 12/19/2017 05:57 PM »
[spoilers]

The SW galaxy is vast, no need to center on just a few characters.

[/spoilers]

[Spoilers!]

The SW galaxy IS vast, yet it feels so small in these new movies. The First Order and the Resistance - ugh. Throwaway factions as a plot device to recreate the feeling of the rebels vs empire without any reason given for their existence.  The Republic is HUGE, yet somehow one planet gets blown up and everyone just gives up aside from this small handful? Gone are the lines of  "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers"? Or the 1st Order took over everything long ago? Who knows. 

I liked this movie, I liked the last one, but just as a single viewing... not much on the 2nd viewing for TFA. Thinking in retrospect the new series feels like it is largely vapid entertainment supplemented by feelings of nostalgia. Good for a first viewing but not for building up deep and dynamic fictional universe. (Note that  I LOVED Rogue One, which was a spin off of the original series and added to the depth).

You make very good points on the themes of handling failure and growing into greatness, I hope they build on what the Jedi are and can be... move from less black and white to more grey areas.  I think the failure of the Jedi, with their rigid views of a monk like existence, allowed for an emotional young Anakin helped make him so vulnerable to Palpatine, and the Jedi so blind to everything.  Maybe they will take that theme and really build it into something new. I hope so, and that these themes aren't just discarded by the next director.

As much as the prequel movies have been maligned, and failed to deliver quality entertainment through 1/2 the total running time, they did build to create an epic tale. The set up of Palpatine and the Sith engineering a conflict that led to a galaxy wide military build up, people discarding freedoms in exchange for personal security, the handing of unlimited power to a single government - that was truly epic. That not only had depth in terms of social and political issues but set the stage for an entire galaxy can fall into oppression, and the urgency in liberation from it.   The new movies seem like they want to emulate that story, but not actually put in any work to do so. The casino scene while blatant at least did take steps to opening things up to a bigger picture.

Overall while I was entertained I'm left with feelings of apathy, no real sense of attachment to the conflict presented on the screen because it all feels so contrived. Created solely for the purpose of manufacturing movies that entertain once but weren't created with the intent of create something meaningful and greater than its individual parts. 

[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 06:01 PM by GWH »

Online JDTractorGuy

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #38 on: 12/19/2017 08:30 PM »
As a long-time fan, who loved the original films in the theaters back then ('77, '80, '83), I am shocked to say that I was disappointed.  I was so not expecting to be disappointed, but that's my honest reaction.  I really enjoyed Ep. 7 "Force Awakens", and thought it honorably handled both old and new characters.

This new film does not, in my view.  The new characters largely feel forced. The humor feels 'Disneyfied'. Finn's storyline with his particular mission felt totally tangential.  I found myself wanting to get back to the storyline of Rey/Luke/Kylo every time we went elsewhere.

I have to say the Empire Strikes Back remains the peak of the series for me, and this new film falls far short.

Pretty much exactly the way I feel.  It pretty much took everything from Ep.7 and just tossed it away.  But, I did like the return of someone.

Saw it today.  Have to say I agree with both of you.  While I wasn't around for the original trilogy, I've been a fan of the films since I first saw them as a child, and I have to say this was a disappointment for me. 

To describe it in one word, I would have to say "Weird".

It seemed to break off from the rest of the films and throw in so many new things we had never seen before that to me, didn't make any sense at all.  I won't spoil anything, but I left the theater disappointed and am content with pretending that Star Wars ended at the end of Episode 6.

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #39 on: 12/19/2017 09:38 PM »
Well, I saw it again today with a friend.  He had not seen it yet, and while he felt disappointed, I actually enjoyed it a bit more, but still not enough to call it anywhere near the best Star Wars movie.  I am hoping, Episode 9 brings everything together, and will make this movie seem better.  But that should not be necessary.  I think Empire Strikes Back was a great middle of a trilogy. And frankly, I like Attack of the Clones a lot more than this movie as a middle. 

Offline Oli

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #40 on: 12/19/2017 09:45 PM »
Okay, so yesterday I had the chance to watch the movie in the local cinema.

It's not a bad movie, but it's also not a great one. A typical modern movie with excessive use of graphic effects, way too much action. The good thing is that it's following the traditions of the franchise - jedi, sith, and the characters are compatible with their background. However, the storyline is an incoherent mess.

As a result, this movie, although not that bad, is a perfect representation of why I hate modern trends. My eye is satiated, but my brain is hungry for a good story.

I feel the story in modern big budget movies is just there to glue spectacular set pieces together somehow, no wonder it always turns out to be a mess. Funnily enough, despite all the action, almost all good action movies have been made in the 80/90s.


Offline Lars-J

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #41 on: 12/19/2017 10:07 PM »
Well, I saw it again today with a friend.  He had not seen it yet, and while he felt disappointed, I actually enjoyed it a bit more, but still not enough to call it anywhere near the best Star Wars movie.  I am hoping, Episode 9 brings everything together, and will make this movie seem better.  But that should not be necessary.  I think Empire Strikes Back was a great middle of a trilogy. And frankly, I like Attack of the Clones a lot more than this movie as a middle.

Oh I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 10:09 PM by Lars-J »

Offline Khadgars

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #42 on: 12/19/2017 10:15 PM »
Thank you guys for hiding the spoilers, nicely done ( I couldn't prevent myself from peeking at this thread even though I knew there could be spoilers)!  Going to see it this Saturday, I've been waiting to see Luke kick some arse for almost 30 years! 

Let me guess, Rey is a daughter of Yodi?  ;D
« Last Edit: 12/19/2017 10:15 PM by Khadgars »

Offline AlexP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #43 on: 12/19/2017 10:24 PM »
It didn't go where I wanted it to go, and I love it all the more for it. During the Force Awakens I felt that familiar buzz of excitement throughout, with the familiar feel and returning characters from childhood. But during the Last Jedi, I felt joy, sorrow, surprise and awe in a way I haven't done during a Star Wars film since that original trilogy.

Perfect it isn't, worthy it very much is.

Online KelvinZero

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #44 on: 12/20/2017 12:05 AM »
Oh I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.
I remember being disappointed by Empire Strikes Back initially. It had those two separate story lines with a muddy "to be continued" conclusion.

I like ESB now, when viewed as the middle of three. It actually had a lot of story arc and character development. Viewed as one massive movie, it was a good act 2 in a Three-act structure

(apologies if that is spoilers to anyone :) )

Online RocketLover0119

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #45 on: 12/20/2017 12:32 AM »
saw the movie yesterday, a few bits and bobs came that i thought were interesting

SPOILERS AHEAD[1[


[spoilers][2]


The part I thought was interesting most was when Leia came back from the dead, because Carrie Fisher is dead, i assumed they would just kill her off. and Last, SNOKE. IS. CREEPY (but dead) 8) :)


[/spoilers]

edit/Lar:
1 - That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works
2 - seriously, I have to do this for you? (I kid...)
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 01:01 AM by Lar »
"The Falcon has landed"

Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #46 on: 12/20/2017 01:31 AM »
Well, I saw it again today with a friend.  He had not seen it yet, and while he felt disappointed, I actually enjoyed it a bit more, but still not enough to call it anywhere near the best Star Wars movie.  I am hoping, Episode 9 brings everything together, and will make this movie seem better.  But that should not be necessary.  I think Empire Strikes Back was a great middle of a trilogy. And frankly, I like Attack of the Clones a lot more than this movie as a middle.

Oh I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.

Really?  I remember myself and my friends  seeing it several times that summer when we first got our driver's licenses! I don't remember anything about it being controversial.  I read all the articles in Starlog back then, as that was my only source of news for science fiction.  I don't remember anything negative or any of those questions. We were in awe of it, even more than the original....then we got ewoks 3 years later.  The only debate we had was Darth Vader lying to Luke about being his father.  Maybe my circle of knowledge missed the controversy. 

Offline the_other_Doug

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #47 on: 12/20/2017 04:05 PM »
...I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.

Really?  I remember myself and my friends  seeing it several times that summer when we first got our driver's licenses! I don't remember anything about it being controversial.  I read all the articles in Starlog back then, as that was my only source of news for science fiction.  I don't remember anything negative or any of those questions. We were in awe of it, even more than the original....then we got ewoks 3 years later.  The only debate we had was Darth Vader lying to Luke about being his father.  Maybe my circle of knowledge missed the controversy.

Ron, Starlog gushed in great floods of blind approval over every single effects-laden space opera of the era.  I recall one issue devoted entirely to a TV series that would change televised science fiction forever, and from that moment forward would be the impossible-to-reach bar that all future TV SF would be compared against!

The show?  Buck Rogers in the 25th Century!  <beedabeedabeedabbeep>

ESB was roundly panned at the time for some rather bad structural issues [1], as well as what was considered a very unsatisfying ending.  I recall numberless discussions at the time about how "middle episodes of trilogies are always the weakest of the three pieces" and such.  For myself, Episode IV remains as the best film, mainly due to its use of Aristotlean dramatic unities, in which you can speculate that the entire period of the story and the Hero's self-discovery, except for the final chorus (the medal presentation scene), takes place in one 24-hour period.  That and its careful attention to how myth is structured -- it is one of the first films in the history of the cinema to set out to almost perfectly tell the first third of the Path of the Hero myth, and it succeeds on all levels in that sense.

ESB, on the other hand, was the middle third of the Path of the Hero, where the Hero stumbles and regresses from his first zenith, which happened at the discovery of his path and his power.  As such, before the Hero finds his ultimate redemption, the middle section of that myth will always be less emotionally satisfying than either the discovery episode or the mastery/sacrifice episode.

So, yeah -- ESB had a lot of negative reaction when it came out.  It was only after the entire trilogy was done, as a whole entity, that ESB rose to be regarded as one of the strongest pieces.

[1] -- in ESB, starting at the departure from Hoth and the point where our heroes were separated, their stories dilate in time.  Han and Leia spend, apparently, just a few hours in their flight from the Star Destroyers, and by the time they decide they ought to head for Cloud City, Luke has been training with Yoda for an apparent period of months.  As I say, that structural problem bothered more people than anything else, I think.
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 04:07 PM by the_other_Doug »
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Offline bad_astra

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #48 on: 12/20/2017 04:58 PM »
I don't expect anything like real physics in a Star Wars movie, but still..

[spoilers]

forget it. i cant get the spoiler thing to work
[/spoilers]
« Last Edit: 12/20/2017 05:01 PM by bad_astra »
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Offline Lar

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #49 on: 12/20/2017 05:42 PM »
I don't expect anything like real physics in a Star Wars movie, but still..

[spoilers]

forget it. i cant get the spoiler thing to work
[/spoilers]

Quote someone else's post to see the markup used and copy it.  It's tedious but not impossible.
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Offline Ronpur50

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #50 on: 12/20/2017 08:13 PM »
...I think you aren't aware how controversial The Empire Strikes Back was to some Star Wars fans...  :) What's all these new force powers? Levitation? Ghosts? Why is the empire still around after the death star was destroyed? The list goes on.

Films that change the direction of a series of films (for better or worse) are always more controversial. Many - but not all - are appreciated more in hindsight.

Really?  I remember myself and my friends  seeing it several times that summer when we first got our driver's licenses! I don't remember anything about it being controversial.  I read all the articles in Starlog back then, as that was my only source of news for science fiction.  I don't remember anything negative or any of those questions. We were in awe of it, even more than the original....then we got ewoks 3 years later.  The only debate we had was Darth Vader lying to Luke about being his father.  Maybe my circle of knowledge missed the controversy.

[1] -- in ESB, starting at the departure from Hoth and the point where our heroes were separated, their stories dilate in time.  Han and Leia spend, apparently, just a few hours in their flight from the Star Destroyers, and by the time they decide they ought to head for Cloud City, Luke has been training with Yoda for an apparent period of months.  As I say, that structural problem bothered more people than anything else, I think.

Never even though of this as a problem.  I thought it was obvious the the Falcon had to spend a long time to get to Bespin from Hoth without hyperdrive.  But I never got the impression Luke was on Dagobah for more than a few days anyway.  Where were these issues discussed?  I suppose my total isolation in a small town in central Illinois kept me in the dark of this.

I loved Empire from day 1.  I had always assumed that was why I did not Return of the Jedi as much, but I still loved it.  But I still don't think anything tops the original either. 

I do wonder what time will do for The Last Jedi.  When the entire trilogy is played out, will it flow better than I think it does now?  I guess I will find out in two years.

Offline mike robel

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #51 on: 12/20/2017 09:18 PM »
I think the best movie thus far is Star Wars: Rouge 1 (which I would have really liked it to be Star Wars:  A Forlorn Hope) followed by Star Wars:  A New Hope.  The others all pretty much look repetitious.

The Last Jedi was mostly enjoyable.  I am very skilled at suspending my disbelief and just absorbing it.  They could have left Finn out of the entire movie and it would not have made any difference to the plot and cut out a few tiresome scenes.  I had some hope for him from episode 7.  Not so much anymore.


Offline jgoldader

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #52 on: 12/21/2017 04:03 AM »
It was a poor, unfocused story, poorly directed.  Props to Mark Hamill, who did the best anybody could do with what he was given to work with.  The movie seriously needed some Rogue One (maybe "Solo") reshoot-level reworking.
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Offline zodiacchris

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #53 on: 12/22/2017 11:25 AM »
Saw it today with a friend, we both came out shaking our heads and sorely disappointed. Having followed Star Wars since ‘77, and having liked the last one, I found this flashy, soppy, illogical trash, all bling and action, and the storyline sucks, badly.   :-[

Offline mme

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #54 on: 01/01/2018 08:00 PM »
[image text quote]
Space bombers do not work that way.
[/image text quote]
I had the same thought but it's not like any of the physics of Star Wars makes any sense or is consistent beyond "looks cool."  And I say that as someone that eagerly anticipates every release (even though Ep. I-III retroactively ruined my childhood.)
« Last Edit: 01/01/2018 08:01 PM by mme »
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Online nacnud

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #55 on: 01/01/2018 08:20 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!

Offline mme

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #56 on: 01/01/2018 08:28 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!
That's what I meant to imply but you said it much better. :)
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Online nacnud

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #57 on: 01/01/2018 08:34 PM »
I really want to dive into the central tenet of the movie,

[spoilers]

which is dealing with failure, hence the whole Canto Bight sequence etc.

[/spoilers]

but I can't be having with spoilers.  ;D
« Last Edit: 01/01/2018 09:00 PM by nacnud »

Offline AlexP

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #58 on: 01/01/2018 09:13 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!
The criticism around the bombs baffles me. Not only for the reason you said, but...there's gravity inside the ships, right? And that's where the bombs are...

Offline Crispy

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #59 on: 01/01/2018 09:28 PM »
I liked it, alot, as Luke said in the trailer, 'this isn't going to go the way you think'.

For those picking holes with falling bombs or similar well I have problems with artificial and anti gravity, superluminal flight, spacecraft that fly like aeroplanes, laser swords and space wizards, who cares though, it's a movie!
The criticism around the bombs baffles me. Not only for the reason you said, but...there's gravity inside the ships, right? And that's where the bombs are...
Also there's gravity on board the enemy ship. How far out does the gravity "field" stretch?

This is exactly the sort of conversation that kills enjoyment of this sort of movie, of course :)

I thought TLJ was great. Subverted expectations, gave everyone a satisfying arc, and had some unforgettable set-pieces.

Online sanman

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Re: Star Wars: The Last Jedi
« Reply #60 on: 02/15/2018 03:47 AM »
How It Should Have Ended


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