Author Topic: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)  (Read 40685 times)

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #140 on: 11/29/2017 05:25 PM »
Anybody know what risk category this mission will fall under?

Currently B, the WIETR report mentions that A might be more appropriate.

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #141 on: 11/29/2017 05:36 PM »
Anybody know what risk category this mission will fall under?
From the  WIETR report
Quote
Risk Classification:The Class B risk classification for the WFIRST mission is not consistent with the uniform
application of NASA policy for strategically important missions with comparable levels of investment and risks. The
inconsistency is exacerbated further by the status and treatment of CGI as a science instrument versus a technology
demonstration. The estimated cost of classifying WFIRST as a Class A mission is ~ $250Mto $300M depending on
reliability-driven design changes and other mission assurance requirements.
...
Recommendation 3 Mission classification
...
Options to NASA are:
* 3A. Designate as Class A and tailor down to reasonable application consistent with resources, or;
* 3B. Augment the Class B designation to take a more robust approach to EDUs, ETUs, spares, life and qualification test units, and for post-delivery support, bringing it closer to a Class A risk classification.

Online Blackstar

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #142 on: 11/29/2017 09:38 PM »
Anybody know what risk category this mission will fall under?

Currently B, the WIETR report mentions that A might be more appropriate.

And that just blew my mind. I assumed that missions costing over $1 billion and prioritized in the decadal survey were automatically class A. Dunno how they did not think that.

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #143 on: 11/29/2017 09:55 PM »
Anybody know what risk category this mission will fall under?

Currently B, the WIETR report mentions that A might be more appropriate.

And that just blew my mind. I assumed that missions costing over $1 billion and prioritized in the decadal survey were automatically class A. Dunno how they did not think that.

"The estimated cost of classifying WFIRST as a Class A mission is ~ $250M to $300M depending on reliability-driven design changes and other mission assurance requirements."

That's why.
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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #144 on: 11/29/2017 10:44 PM »
Anybody know what risk category this mission will fall under?

Currently B, the WIETR report mentions that A might be more appropriate.

And that just blew my mind. I assumed that missions costing over $1 billion and prioritized in the decadal survey were automatically class A. Dunno how they did not think that.

"The estimated cost of classifying WFIRST as a Class A mission is ~ $250M to $300M depending on reliability-driven design changes and other mission assurance requirements."

That's why.

I was putting my smiley face on when I wrote that...

Offline catdlr

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #145 on: 12/24/2017 12:05 AM »
WFIRST Will See the Big Picture of the Universe


Quote
NASA Goddard
Published on Dec 22, 2017


Scheduled to launch in the mid-2020s, the Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST) will function as Hubble’s wide-eyed cousin. While just as sensitive as Hubble's cameras, WFIRST's 300-megapixel Wide Field Instrument will image a sky area 100 times larger. This means a single WFIRST image will hold the equivalent detail of 100 pictures from Hubble.

The mission’s wide field of view will allow it to generate a never-before-seen big picture of the universe, which will help astronomers explore some of the greatest mysteries of the cosmos, like why the expansion of the universe seems to be accelerating. Some scientists attribute the speed-up to dark energy, an unexplained pressure that makes up 68 percent of the total content of the cosmos.

The Wide Field Instrument will also allow WFIRST to measure the matter in hundreds of millions of distant galaxies through a phenomenon dictated by Einstein’s relativity theory. Massive objects like galaxies curve space-time in a way that bends light passing near them, creating a distorted, magnified view of far-off galaxies behind them. WFIRST will paint a broad picture of how matter is structured throughout the universe, allowing scientists to put the governing physics of its assembly to the ultimate test.

WFIRST can use this same light-bending phenomenon to study planets beyond our solar system, known as exoplanets. In a process called microlensing, a foreground star in our galaxy acts as the lens. When its motion randomly aligns with a distant background star, the lens magnifies, brightens and distorts the background star. WFIRST's microlensing survey will monitor 100 million stars for hundreds of days and is expected to find about 2,500 planets, well targeted at rocky planets in and beyond the region where liquid water may exist.

These results will make WFIRST an ideal companion to missions like NASA's Kepler and the upcoming Transiting Exoplanet Survey Satellite (TESS), which are designed to study larger planets orbiting closer to their host stars. Together, discoveries from these three missions will help complete the census of planets beyond our solar system. The combined data will also overlap in a critical area known as the habitable zone, the orbiting distance from a host star that would permit a planet's surface to harbor liquid water — and potentially life.

By pioneering an array of innovative technologies, WFIRST will serve as a multipurpose mission, formulating a big picture of the universe and helping us answer some of the most profound questions in astrophysics, such as how the universe evolved into what we see today, its ultimate fate and whether we are alone. 

This video is public domain and along with other supporting visualizations can be downloaded from the Scientific Visualization Studio at: http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/2238

Credit: NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center/Scott Wiessinger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nu4DsKlKKMQ?t=001

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #146 on: 12/29/2017 04:31 AM »
Why is a coronograph such an expensive instrument here?  They've been used for decades.  I would have thought that it was a pretty proven technology.
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Offline Exastro

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #147 on: 12/29/2017 04:42 AM »

Quote
Why is a coronograph such an expensive instrument here?  They've been used for decades.  I would have thought that it was a pretty proven technology.

Coronagraphs are simple in principle, but if you're looking for high performance (strong suppression of light from an on-axis source combined with small loss of angular resolution, typically) then you're looking at extremely precise and therefore very expensive optics. 

It's analogous to the reason Hubble was so expensive despite being fundamentally similar to a $250 Celestron.

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #148 on: 01/08/2018 08:16 PM »
Helping out the budget?

Quote
Jeff Foust
@jeff_foust
Hertz: in discussions with five potential international partners for WFIRST. #AAS231

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/950450326544449546

Offline Star One

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #149 on: 01/09/2018 04:31 PM »
Related to the above here’s the SN article.

NASA plans to have WFIRST reviews complete by April

Quote
NATIONAL HARBOR, Md. — NASA hopes to have a major astronomy mission back on track by April after completing efforts to reduce its cost, an agency official said Jan. 8.

Speaking at a meeting of astronomers prior to the start of the 231st Meeting of the American Astronomical Society here, Paul Hertz, director of NASA’s astrophysics division, said the agency plans to hold a key review for the Wide-Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST), known as Key Decision Point B, by April.

Quote
The biggest changes to WFIRST to lower its cost involve one of its instruments, a coronagraph. That instrument is designed to precisely block light from individual stars, allowing observations of planets or dust disks orbiting them.

That instrument, he said, will now be considered a technology demonstration, and its cost will be shared with the agency’s Space Technology Mission Directorate. “Their contribution, and international contributions, do not count against the $3.2 billion,” he said.

Quote
The mission is also planning reductions for WFIRST’s other main instrument, a wide-field instrument. Hertz said the instrument will have fewer operating modes and relaxed detector requirements, and some capabilities will be provided by unannounced international partners.

Another change has been revisions to the overall project schedule, which allows for a launch about six months sooner than previously planned, saving money. However, he said the project will spend more money on “mission assurance” activities in response to a finding by last fall’s independent review that argued the mission was taking on a higher risk profile than warranted for one of this size.

http://spacenews.com/nasa-plans-to-have-wfirst-reviews-complete-by-april/

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #150 on: 01/09/2018 05:49 PM »
Jeff Foust has been posting a series of tweets in last few hours from space conference. The future large space telescopes seems to be in space assembly. With in space assembly telescopes of considerably larger than JWST, using similar design will be possible, with big plus of being easily serviceable.
I think WFIRST will be last of big telescopes launched complete.

A lot of costs associated with these telescopes, JWST particular is trying fit in 5m fairing then unfold successfully when in orbit. As cost rise, risk of failure becomes less acceptable forcing increase in cost to reduce risk. With in assembly, the origami part is removed, just launch as kit set. The core will still be expensive but again be repaired or replaced. Just importantly telescope can be upgraded, so can improve as technology improves.


Offline Dao Angkan

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #151 on: 01/09/2018 11:13 PM »
Jeff Foust has been posting a series of tweets in last few hours from space conference. The future large space telescopes seems to be in space assembly. With in space assembly telescopes of considerably larger than JWST, using similar design will be possible, with big plus of being easily serviceable.
I think WFIRST will be last of big telescopes launched complete.

A lot of costs associated with these telescopes, JWST particular is trying fit in 5m fairing then unfold successfully when in orbit. As cost rise, risk of failure becomes less acceptable forcing increase in cost to reduce risk. With in assembly, the origami part is removed, just launch as kit set. The core will still be expensive but again be repaired or replaced. Just importantly telescope can be upgraded, so can improve as technology improves.

Next-gen space observatories after WFIRST could be planned for SLS (it surely needs some use). If private heavy lift occurs (New Glenn, BFR etc) then it could be transferred to private launch (probably saving hundreds of millions, if not billions). As projects like this take so long to achieve, then I don't see any need to order an SLS until just a couple of years before if the private systems don't materialise.
« Last Edit: 01/09/2018 11:19 PM by Dao Angkan »

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #152 on: 01/10/2018 02:03 AM »
Quote
That instrument, he said, will now be considered a technology demonstration
AFAIK it was already considered a technology demonstrator on paper, the inconsistency between calling a tech demo but treating it like an instrument was one of the main issues raised by the WIETR report. Maybe it's going to be a tech demo for real now...

Offline Star One

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #153 on: 01/10/2018 07:04 PM »
Jeff Foust has been posting a series of tweets in last few hours from space conference. The future large space telescopes seems to be in space assembly. With in space assembly telescopes of considerably larger than JWST, using similar design will be possible, with big plus of being easily serviceable.
I think WFIRST will be last of big telescopes launched complete.

A lot of costs associated with these telescopes, JWST particular is trying fit in 5m fairing then unfold successfully when in orbit. As cost rise, risk of failure becomes less acceptable forcing increase in cost to reduce risk. With in assembly, the origami part is removed, just launch as kit set. The core will still be expensive but again be repaired or replaced. Just importantly telescope can be upgraded, so can improve as technology improves.

And here’s the related article from SN.

http://spacenews.com/scientists-and-engineers-push-for-servicing-and-assembly-of-future-space-observatories/

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #154 on: 01/10/2018 07:18 PM »
Jeff Foust has been posting a series of tweets in last few hours from space conference. The future large space telescopes seems to be in space assembly. With in space assembly telescopes of considerably larger than JWST, using similar design will be possible, with big plus of being easily serviceable.
I think WFIRST will be last of big telescopes launched complete.

A lot of costs associated with these telescopes, JWST particular is trying fit in 5m fairing then unfold successfully when in orbit. As cost rise, risk of failure becomes less acceptable forcing increase in cost to reduce risk. With in assembly, the origami part is removed, just launch as kit set. The core will still be expensive but again be repaired or replaced. Just importantly telescope can be upgraded, so can improve as technology improves.

WFIRST is not a large telescope, only a large price tag because of scope creep.  There is still a huge science niche that will be filled by 4-meter monolithic telescopes.
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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #155 on: 01/10/2018 07:41 PM »
While assembly is possible in LEO, space debris starts to become an issue. DSH orbit provides cleaner space plus it is closer to destination orbit for some telescopes. With new space tugs like OA are building, retrieving a telescope and returning it to DSH becomes possible, especially if servicing requires realtime human intervention.

Ideally bulk of assembly wouldn't need any body on site, maybe just for final commissioning.

Offline Star One

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Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #156 on: 02/12/2018 04:48 PM »
NASA budget proposal seeks to cancel WFIRST

http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-seeks-to-cancel-wfirst/

I would say this proposal is dead on delivery being as it seems more than likely to get the backs up of key members of Congress.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 04:52 PM by Star One »

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #157 on: 02/12/2018 05:20 PM »
NASA budget proposal seeks to cancel WFIRST

http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-seeks-to-cancel-wfirst/

I would say this proposal is dead on delivery being as it seems more than likely to get the backs up of key members of Congress.

The budget proposes an increase in total funding for NASA science, but it's biased very heavily towards planetary science. Both astrophysics and Earth science would take a big hit.

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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #158 on: 02/12/2018 05:23 PM »
NASA budget proposal seeks to cancel WFIRST

http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-seeks-to-cancel-wfirst/

I would say this proposal is dead on delivery being as it seems more than likely to get the backs up of key members of Congress.

Quote
“Development of the WFIRST space telescope would have required a significant funding increase in 2019 and future years, with a total cost of more than $3 billion,” the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB) stated in a document outlining planned cuts across the overall federal budget proposal. “Given competing priorities at NASA, and budget constraints, developing another large space telescope immediately after completing the $8.8 billion James Webb Space Telescope is not a priority for the Administration.”

This is, apparently in spite of the news from last month (see up-thread), reported in this SpaceNews article, NASA plans to have WFIRST reviews complete by April.
« Last Edit: 02/12/2018 05:43 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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Re: Wide Field Infrared Survey Telescope (WFIRST)
« Reply #159 on: 02/12/2018 05:46 PM »
NASA budget proposal seeks to cancel WFIRST

http://spacenews.com/nasa-budget-proposal-seeks-to-cancel-wfirst/

I would say this proposal is dead on delivery being as it seems more than likely to get the backs up of key members of Congress.

The budget proposes an increase in total funding for NASA science, but it's biased very heavily towards planetary science. Both astrophysics and Earth science would take a big hit.

I don’t want to cross the line into politics here but that’s not surprising.

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