Author Topic: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates  (Read 343355 times)

Offline Bynaus

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #80 on: 04/06/2016 04:08 pm »
PBDeS: "Airbus Safran Launchers Ariane 6 chief Patrick Bonguet: Ariane 6 will lift 2X the mass & 2X the volume of SpaceX Falcon 9 at < 2X the price."

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/717705991714902016

Also: http://spacenews.com/ariane-6-rocket-designers-say-theyll-match-or-beat-todays-spacex-prices-on-per-kilogram-basis/

Seems like a tall order, or how do they get these numbers? Payload to GTO for Ariane 6 is 5 or 11 tons (62 and 64, respectively). I get double the mass (11 vs 6) and volume, but <2 the price? Even if it's on a per kg basis, 90 M$/11 tons is 8000 $/kg, whereas 60 M$/6 tons is 10000 $/kg.

(Edit: sorry if that is not news enough for the update thread, feel free to move)
« Last Edit: 04/06/2016 04:09 pm by Bynaus »
More of my thoughts: www.final-frontier.ch (in German)

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #81 on: 04/06/2016 04:32 pm »
Patrick said twice payload for less than twice price (per launch) which is cheaper per kg which your calculations confirm for F9 V1.1.

The F9 FT is likely to match or better the $8000/kg. More importantly it can do it on single payload with wider payload mass range as F9R can fly lighter satellites for same $/kg.
« Last Edit: 04/06/2016 04:33 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline Alpha_Centauri

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #82 on: 04/06/2016 06:01 pm »
10.5 tonnes is ~twice Falcons 9's 5.3 (don't know where you are getting 6 from).  The 10.5 tonne Ariane 6 is supposed to cost ~€90m or on current prices just over $100m, which is less than twice the current ~$60m of Falcon 9.  So the claim is perfectly correct, the question is the delivery.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #83 on: 04/06/2016 06:16 pm »
Keep in mind that the advertised Falcon 9 GTO payload is not a direct comparison to the Ariane 6 GTO payload, since Ariane 6 specifies GEO -1,500 m/s ish versus Falcon 9's GEO - 1,800 m/s ish.  Subtract a tonne or so from Falcon 9 payload to directly compare.  There's even a chance that Airbus Safran is talking about the advertised Falcon Heavy GTO payload, which is 6.4 tonnes.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 04/06/2016 06:18 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline woods170

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #84 on: 04/06/2016 08:01 pm »
Remember, this is the UPDATES thread. There is a dedicated DISCUSSION thread. Please take your discussions over there. Thank you.

Offline RonM

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #85 on: 04/08/2016 03:35 am »
BBC article "Ariane 6 project 'in good shape'"

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-35983735

Quote
The dream is moving to reality. That was the message from European Space Agency boss, Jan Woerner, on Wednesday as he discussed the Ariane 6 rocket.

The director general was touring the Airbus Safran Launchers facilities at Les Mureaux, France, where much of the future vehicle will be integrated.

Reporters were shown the progress being made towards a 2020 maiden flight.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #86 on: 04/13/2016 09:51 pm »
Esa updated there Ariane 6 page with new images and data.

Offline _INTER_

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #87 on: 05/03/2016 04:07 pm »
SpaceX recently estimated pricing and if both estimates turn out to be correct:

FalconArian 62Falcon HeavyAriane 64
Prize| $62M| $86.2M| $90M| $103.5M
GTO| 8'300kg| 5'000kg| 22'200kg| 10'500kg

... what's the advantage of this new rocket, except when SpaceX is fully booked? As someone with no deeper understanding, it looks ridiculous.
« Last Edit: 05/03/2016 04:41 pm by _INTER_ »

Offline chapi

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #88 on: 05/03/2016 05:12 pm »
Actually the Falcon Heavy price tag is related to a 8000kg GTO launch and the Falcon 9 one for a 5500 kg one.

GTO orbit are also slightly better from Kourou than from KSC.

But still, your question remains.

Offline Mike Jones

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #89 on: 05/03/2016 07:35 pm »
2 satellites will be launched on Ariane 64, so with this pricing Ariane 6 would be much cheaper than today's Falcon 9 spaceX with twice more performance. The big question mark is to anticipate prices from SpaceX in 2020. Ariane 62 Will only replace Euro Soyuz for institutional missions from ESA/EU at a similar price tag

Offline woods170

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #90 on: 05/04/2016 10:22 am »
None of the above three posts are updates. We have a discussion thread for those. This thread is for updates only.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #91 on: 05/05/2016 09:15 am »
I found this video, filmed when Jan Wörner visited the AVIO (Italy) factory.
You can see the production proces taking place of  P120C test casing.

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #92 on: 05/13/2016 09:51 am »
Two new press releases on ASL's page:
- 2-May: Agreement signed for ASL joint venture.
- 12-May: Vince is going to be tested at DLR Lampoldshausen.

edit: I just noticed new images an a video of Vince at the Media libary. (bottom of the ASL page).

Edit2: Video from ELA-4.
« Last Edit: 05/15/2016 05:38 pm by Rik ISS-fan »

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Offline bolun

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #94 on: 05/18/2016 07:50 pm »
Ariane 6 is taking shape

18 May 2016

The engine that will power the upper stage of Europe’s next-generation launcher completed its first test last week, demonstrating that Ariane 6 is forging ahead for a 2020 debut.

The DLR German Aerospace Center test facility in Lampoldshausen, Germany allows firings under near-realistic space conditions. The Vinci engine ran for 500 seconds, powered by super-cold liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen and generating 18 tonnes of vacuum thrust.

Running until September, this test campaign is establishing Vinci’s characteristics and allowing engineers to build an accurate computer model.

As a restartable engine, Vinci will offer a wide range of payload combinations and pairing of different types of missions. Direct deorbiting or injection into graveyard orbits once its work is done will help to keep the space environment free of debris.

http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Launchers/Ariane_6_is_taking_shape

Image credit: DLR

Offline Rik ISS-fan

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #95 on: 05/19/2016 06:30 pm »

Offline npuentes

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #96 on: 05/20/2016 11:49 am »
Tweet from @DutchSpace 15th of May.
https://twitter.com/DutchSpace/status/731903088634810372

What are the reasons for not resurrecting ELA-2?

Offline woods170

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #97 on: 05/20/2016 09:25 pm »
Tweet from @DutchSpace 15th of May.
https://twitter.com/DutchSpace/status/731903088634810372

What are the reasons for not resurrecting ELA-2?
This is the updates thread. We have a separate discussion thread for Ariane 6. I suggest you take your question over there. Thank you.

Offline DT1

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #98 on: 05/22/2016 12:12 pm »
Two new press releases on ASL's page:
- 2-May: Agreement signed for ASL joint venture.
- 12-May: Vince is going to be tested at DLR Lampoldshausen.

edit: I just noticed new images an a video of Vince at the Media libary. (bottom of the ASL page).



Just a few additonal info:
In the test mentioned above Vinci made a three-ignition test, i.e. it was re-ignited twice. The campaign in Lampoldshausen will also see the first tests with the new fixed nozzle for the Ariane 6 version of Vinci.

And this test was, of course, only the first one in the Ariane 6 program. Vinci has been tested already since 2005 at the ESA test stand P4.1 here in Lampoldshausen in the course of several programs (ESC-B upper stage, FLPP, Ariane 5ME upper stage).
« Last Edit: 05/22/2016 12:14 pm by DT1 »
---------------------------
Ralf
*** AD ASTRA PER ASPERA ***

Offline jacqmans

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Re: ESA - Ariane 6 Updates
« Reply #99 on: 06/03/2016 10:22 am »
Press release, 3 June 2016

New rocket test rig for safe Ariane 6 launches

The future European launcher Ariane 6 will debut in 2020. In order for it to bring all its payloads safely to their orbits, the engines for the new launcher must first be extensively tested. To test the upper stage of the new launcher, a new test rig
will be built at the German Aerospace Center (Deutsches Zentrum fuer Luft- und Raumfahrt; DLR) site in Lampoldshausen. The Chair of the DLR Executive Board, Pascale Ehrenfreund, and the Director General of the European Space Agency (ESA), Johann-Dietrich
Wörner, signed the contract for the development and construction of the P5.2 test rig for the Ariane launcher programme on 2 June at the International Aerospace Exhibition (ILA) in Berlin. All upper stages can be tested in this test rig – a capability
unique in Europe.

"The Ariane 6 is the future of European space transportation – and DLR is an indispensable partner. Before the first flight of Ariane 6, the upper stage of the new launcher will be put through its paces in Lampoldshausen. With this, DLR assumes responsibility
for the central task of making Ariane 6 as safe as its predecessors," said Ehrenfreund in Berlin. The upper stage of the Ariane 6 will be tested extensively on this new P5.2 test rig at the DLR site in Lampoldshausen. These include fuelling and defuelling
tests and hot running tests for the upper stage. The commissioning is scheduled to begin in 2018.

Commitment to Germany as an aerospace location 

The DLR Space Administration in Bonn lobbied for the new test bench to be built in Lampoldshausen. The German participation in the Ariane 6 programme will be controlled from this location. "Germany will have a 23 percent contribution in the new launcher,
making it the second largest partner after France. We want to participate effectively and contribute our expertise profitably within the European arena. The construction of this test facility in Germany is a clear sign and confirmation of the great
success of our commitment," explains Denis Regenbrecht, responsible for the Ariane 6 programme at the DLR Space Administration.

Extension of the test portfolio at the DLR Lampoldshausen site

The DLR Institute of Space Propulsion is technically responsible for the construction and subsequent operation of the test rig. At the Lampoldshausen site, DLR tests liquid rocket engines of different power classes on behalf of ESA and the European
space industry. "The P5.2 is a major expansion of our test portfolio," explains Stefan Schlechtriem, Head of the DLR Institute of Space Propulsion. "In addition to engines and their components, we will be able to use it to test complete upper stages
in future. This capability is unique in Europe."

Ariane 6 – Europe's future space transportation

The Ariane 6 development programme was approved at the ESA Council at Ministerial Level in December 2014 and signed by 12 member states. With its first launch set for 2020, this European launcher system currently in development is globally competitive
and will guarantee European access to space for ESA Member States. The total launch costs will be reduced by almost 50 percent compared to the Ariane 5. The major contractor for developing the Ariane 6 is the Franco-German company Airbus Safran Launchers
(ASL). Another significant German player in this development is the Augsburg-based company MT Aerospace.
« Last Edit: 06/03/2016 10:23 am by jacqmans »
Jacques :-)

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