Author Topic: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)  (Read 533892 times)

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1380 on: 12/31/2017 09:44 PM »
Hello friends,

the clock is running down slowly, so I would like to thank all of you for the loyalty and continued interest in my work and wish me and all of us that we stay healthy and have a lot of fun together in the New Year.



« Last Edit: 12/31/2017 09:45 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1381 on: 01/02/2018 09:56 PM »
Hello everybody,
let's do it again.

My friend Joe was busy again and before uploading to Shapeways he had only one question to the height of the AFTC rim, 


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)

which was quickly answered, after I had still again measured exactly the height of the small step inside the Aft Skirt, which is 1,5 mm. Consequently, the height of the printed disc should be slightly lower, if possible ≤ 1,2 mm.



Now please keep your fingers crossed that Shapeways can realize that as well. 

« Last Edit: 01/02/2018 10:02 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1382 on: 01/14/2018 02:51 PM »
Hello everybody,

after a few turbulences in the last time, it can go on now, although after the long holiday break it's not so easy again to fall into the usual tinkering modus.

The 3D model of my friend Joe's AFTC ring was almost on the way to the Shapeways printers, but what's the name of it?
Things never turn out the way you expect.

And that had once again to do with the selection of reference photos, where one should not be intoxicated only by the details of great Hi-Res photos, because also the respective time window of such photos may not be disregarded, if one wants to build a specific mission. 

That's what happened to me with the last photos of the AFTCs, such like this one, which comes from the STS-121 (2006) and thus from a rather late mission,


Source: NASA

what inevitably raises the question of whether the Aft Skirts of the boosters at the time of STS-6 have looked similar, or possibly different.

Since I was not able to find any photos that belong to the STS-6 yet, I again searched the Hi-Res archives of NSF (L2) and were very surprised when I have come across this great shot in the thread STS-1: Hi Res Images.


Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (heng44)

The conspicuous thing about it are the silver stripes between the ASTC segments, which immediately have reminded me of the SRB Mock-ups on the KSC grounds,


Source: NASA

but they only have 16 segments, as one can see here. 


Source: NASA (KSC/Mapio.net)

However, as you can see on the STS-1 photo, there were four segments between the two SRB supports, giving a total of 24 segments, whereas the older Mock-ups had only two, what could be a simplified design with only 16 segments.

Therefore, I assume that the ASTCs in the STS-6 also consisted of 24 segments each, as in the STS-1 two years ago.

At this later photo (2013) of the Mok-ups in front of the entrance to the Atlantis Exhibition Hall on the KSC Visitor Complex there should also be 26 segments, which are covered with stripes at the seams.


Source: forum.nasaspaceflight.com (Lee Jay)

But ultimately, what matters is the ASTC configuration that was present at the launch of the Shuttle stack at the mission, therefore for me the image of the STS-1 is crucial for further 3D modeling.

By now I have already instructed my friend Joe, so now he only needs the modified Stripe width, which can be determined from the Segment width, resulting from the circumference of the AFTC ring ( 30 mm) with

C = 30 mm x 3,14 = 94 mm / 24 = 3,9 mm

With this Segment width as the reference value, the STS-1 image results in a width of the stripes of 1 mm above the seams between the segments in the 3D model.



And so I've changed my previous sketch, which now looks like this.



That agrees well with the resin parts in the Newware-Space Shuttle Enhancement Kit 1/144 (NW131), as one can see from the drawing in the construction manual, wherefore this kit seems to me to be really worthwhile. 



So my friend Joe can now customize his 3D model and upload it soon to Shapeways

« Last Edit: 01/14/2018 03:09 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1383 on: 01/17/2018 10:00 AM »
Hello everybody,

by a contribution in the ARC Forum meanwhile a few new insights to the AFTCs resulted, over which I would like to report briefly. 

First of all, there is this photo from an interesting perspective looking at the lower edge of the SRB-Aft Skirt, where the individual ASTC segments are also glued over with silver cover strips, as in the STS-1 photo.


Source: georgesrockets.com
And from the same source also comes this great photo of the Columbia, but unfortunately without specifying the mission.


Source: georgesrockets.com

This for me so far unknown source is the website  George's Rocket Pages of George Gassaway, which according to my previous overview I deem for the ultimate treasure trove for all shuttle scratch modelers, if only because of the valuable collection of detailed drawings there, which are coming just in time for the modeling of the ASTCs and especially of the ET-Intertank which is why I have now modified my sketch for the third time, but of course all good things come in threes.



And therefore once more back to this awesome Hi-Res SRB photo from the STS-121 (2006), where one can even see the cords with which the AFTCs were sewn together. But so far I did not know if these seams still were covered with stripes before the launch as one could see on the already shown STS-1 photo.


Source: NASA

But on this photo from Endeavour's last mission STS-134 (2011) one can see the same kind of ASTC segments with cords but without stripes.


Source: NASA

And in this sence now to an awesome NASA video, "Best of the Best" of Shuttle Launches, that many of you will surely know already.

This video from the Glenn Research Center highlights in stunning imagery in slow motion the launches of three Space shuttle missions:  STS-114, STS-117, and STS-124.

And there one can see from 6:28 the Aft Skirts with the ASTCs, the segments of which have no cover stripes like in this shot at 7:37.



This video is so overwhelming and unique that one can watch it again and again in full length.

« Last Edit: 01/18/2018 02:29 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1384 on: 01/18/2018 12:22 PM »
Hello together,

and from the last photos like this one, my friend Joe was really excited,


Quelle: georgesrockets.com

and has then immediately modified his 3D model and meant that these strips could be applied best by sticking of thin bare metal foil, instead of painting them silver,


Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)

which I can well imagine, e.g. by gluing strips from simple aluminum household foil, or even better with self-adhesive aluminum foil, which one can already buy somewhere, right?

In the meantime, I have been able to narrow down the time window of this photo (without a mission number), since four of the lower SRB rings already have the Instafoam isolation, wherefore it could be earliest at the STS -61C (1986), where this was the case for the first time.

And with this result, it is now certain that the ASTCs at the STS-6 (1983) also had these silver foil insulation strips already. 

« Last Edit: 01/18/2018 04:08 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1385 on: 01/18/2018 12:35 PM »
You can get Bare Metal Foil in various colors and shades which is self-adhesive and provides a nice effect.  There is also Aluminum duct tape (used to connect air conditioning/heating ducts) but I find it a bit thick, but it might work well for this application.

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1386 on: 01/18/2018 04:07 PM »
Thanks Mike,

meanwhile I have tested some materials for the AFTC strips.

Ideal would be adhesive metal foil strips with the thickness like TAMIYA Masking Tape, at which I measured 0,03 mm, which would be comparable to aluminum household foil (0,03 mm), which unfortunately does not stick.

And then I also tested a silver party streamer (0,06 mm), which were table decoration during our last dinner in a restaurant.

But just cutting 1 mm wide strips of this thin stuff is already getting used to,



not to mention the subsequent gluing on the plastic half pipe, for which I first used thin CA.

The left strip is from the party streamer, the two right strips are from the household foil and have about the later required distance of about 4 mm.



And then I was very daring and glued a 4th strip with MEK, which surprisingly seems to work too.



This was not totally surprising for me, because I have already made the experience that the SSWS Pipe Supports let glue itself with MEK on the paper layer of the MLP deck, whereby the installation of the pipe framework is easier of course, since I only need brushing around the support's floor plates without having to lift them.

« Last Edit: 01/18/2018 04:55 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1387 on: 01/18/2018 04:20 PM »
Manfred,

You use watered-down white glue to apply household aluminum foil (or you can get MicroScale Micro metal foil adhesive which is mostly the same thing).  You brush it on, let it dry till in clears (but it is still sticky) and then put it on.  You can smooth it out with a toothpick or a hard brush, buff it with a sanding stick, and it takes a sealing coat well.

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1388 on: 01/18/2018 08:27 PM »
Thanks Mike,

this seems to be a cool trick.

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1389 on: 01/19/2018 11:09 PM »
Hello everybody,

and so once more back to the photo of the Columbia with the AFTC silver strips in the collection of George Gassaway (without mission number), which after intensive research I can assign meanwhile, which is always important to me, and here with the right source. 


Source: spacefacts.de

After I firstly have scoured through the NASA Media Archive and then the website of Capcomespace in the 3rd attempt at Spacefacts, I finally have found out that it deals with the STS-50 (1992).

And through this search, I now know that these silver foil insulation strips on the AFTCs were used at least until STS-85 (1997) and disappeared only later.


Source: spacefacts.de

On this photo of the STS-89 (1998) one can recognize even at Hi-Res. no more silver strips with security, I imagine at least with my meanwhile trained silver-strip-eye.


Source: mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov

On the other hand, I think that in this photo of the STS-99 (2000), one can easily see at Hi-Res. that there were no silver strips, what then also remained until the end of the Space Shuttle program with STS-135 (2011).


Source: mediaarchive.ksc.nasa.gov

From the intervening seven missions STS-90, STS-91, STS-95, STS-88, STS-96, STS-93 and STS-103 I could not find any reliable photos unfortunately until now, whereby one should not be wondered about the unsystematic numbering of the missions.

If any of you find usable photos of it, please let me know. 

Now that's enough of the long AFTC searches, i.e. one photo I still want to show finally, namely this one here,


Source: Library of Congress (HAER No. TX-116-K-21)

with an interesting view at the inside of this ring-shaped hollow flexible flame curtain (George Gassaway), and here once more a larger view. 



« Last Edit: 01/19/2018 11:12 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1390 on: 01/19/2018 11:35 PM »
Hello friends,

from Shapeways came the news that the wall of the doughnut shape is a bit too thin, so my friend Joe has changed it to 0.5 mm.

And these are now the final dimensions with which he wants to upload his 3D model tonight.






Source: arcforums.com (crackerjazz)

Then we'll see.

« Last Edit: 01/19/2018 11:38 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1391 on: 01/20/2018 01:47 PM »
Hello everybody,

my friend Joe has uploaded his 3D model to Shapeways, and of course I could not resist and have immediately ordered a pair of them.


Source: shapeways.com (Crackerjazz)
Now I can't wait to hold it in my hands and to have a close look at them.
Hopefully, Shapeways will soon greenlight it. 

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1392 on: 01/23/2018 10:34 PM »
Hello everybody,

a friend of our Raumcon-Forum has sent me a small roll of silver adhesive foil for testing.



The foil is so thin that one can hardly measure its thickness (about 0.03 mm), and was of course tried the same time, for which I have cut small 1 mm wide strips with a brand-new cutter knife.





which I then glued tentatively onto an Airfix Aft Skirt-Ring, which seems to be a practicable solution.



Then I also glued three of these foil strips on the half pipe (right).



And finally respectively 24 strips must be glued onto the 3D printed and painted ASTC Rings, which might be a bit of fiddling, but should be feasible. 

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1393 on: 01/25/2018 01:14 PM »
Hello together,

well, I was rather amazed when I suddenly saw at noon today that the adhesive film strips had detached again from the rounding of the half pipe.



Apparently, the adhesive film has certain residual stresses inside, which exceed the adhesive force of the strip after a certain time and lead to detachment. 

This can be seen on this piece of adhesive foil, which bulges itself to the silver side after cutting from the roll.



A similar effect I noticed every now and then on some of the glued strip ends, which did not glue firmly enough and stood out a bit (≤ 1 mm), which I then again had to glue with MEK, and a very unruly end with CA.

The household foil does not have these internal stresses, which is why their strips are still firmly fixed, furthermore they were glued with MEK respectively CA.

However, I have to say in hindsight that I had not degreased the half pipe before gluing the adhesive foil strips, which could be the reason, what I will check again tomorrow. 

Then I had also ordered a Chrome marker (1 mm) at Rai-Ro, which arrived today, which of course I tried out right away.

Around these markers of Molotow a real hype has arisen, whose highly pigmented special ink creates a real mirror effect on smooth, non-absorbent surfaces.

At first, however, I could not cope with the marker because I did not know that it was a Pumpmarker, which had to be shaken and briefly pumped before use. 

While straight lines drawn with ruler are not a problem, using the marker on the half tube was a bit more difficult and definitely needs getting used to, which certainly requires some practice.

Therefore, the first six strips on the right end are certainly not optimal, but at least a ray of hope.    



So much for the insights from my experiments today. 

« Last Edit: 01/25/2018 01:26 PM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1394 on: 01/25/2018 01:30 PM »
I recommend you get a piece of glass and make sure it is clean.  Place the tape to be cut onto the glass, then cut it as desired.

As you noted, clean the surface of the place to stick the tape, place the tape, then use a toothpick or another tool (Bare Metal Foil makes a such tool, but you find similar things in craft stores), burnish it down.  If the edges rise up, you can dab a piece of the aforementioned white glue mixture underneath and reattach it.

When finished, you can spray it with clear paint to seal it down or apply a touch of an acrylic like floor polish like "Future".  It has changed names many times and it varies by country.

Hope this helps.

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1395 on: 01/25/2018 09:10 PM »
Thanks Mike, these are all good advices, which I have partly heeded.

Hello friends,

I have also still tried something else.

At first, I degreased the half-tube with Isopropyl and then glued three new adhesive foil strips.

In order to check a possible diameter influence, I also put a strip on my thick Rainbird knitting needle ( 8 mm), and lo and behold, there it still glues always firmly, without any signs of detachment, which seems to confirm my guess.




On the other hand, on the thinner half-tube ( 4,7 mm) after a short while the ends began detaching again, what can be prevented however by fixing the ends with CA.



Then I've made another attempt with the Chrome marker, for which I taped a 1 mm wide strip  on the half-tube on both sides with tape (2 mm) and then painted this area by using the chrome marker simply by hand. But after removing the tape strips one can see that the chrome line is still not even, because the liquid partially creeps ugly under the tape.
Besides, this procedure would be pure stress at 24 strips per Aft Skirt ring, except from the fact that the marked strips probably would not have the same width at the end anyway.



Incidentally, a warming of the adhesive foil strips brought no positive effect too. 
But now we will wait for the delivery of the 3D-ASTC prints, which I have now also ordered in Frosted Extreme Detail (FED).

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1396 on: 01/28/2018 04:24 PM »
May want to try Bare-Metal, it is adhesive metal used for highlighting the chrome around car windows. I have used it for the same purpose you are and it worked quite well. 
Mfg.:  Bare-Metal Foil Company, PO Box #82, Farmington, Mi 48024

https://www.bare-metal.com

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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1397 on: 01/29/2018 06:29 AM »
Yep, Bare-Metal Foil should be working well, as I've also heard it from other guys in ARC Forums, but there are different Chrome Foils, e.g.

Bare-Metal Foil - Ultrabright Chrome

and more recently also

Bare-Metal Foil - New Improved Chrome, whereas this foil would be a little thinner.

At first, I wanted to decide for the Ultrabright Chrome, but then they discouraged me from this kind and recommended the New Improved Chrome, which would actually be thinner and, as a result, better cling to fine contours and details and stick more tightly.
That's why I have ordered this chrome foil now and will test it for making the ASTC stripes.

What kind of Bare Metal Foil did you process and how could it be cut?

« Last Edit: 01/29/2018 06:41 AM by roma847 »
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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1398 on: 02/01/2018 09:31 PM »
Hello everybody,

today I've received the Bare-Metal Foil, and so I can test it.

But at first glance, the foil does not look as mirror-like as aluminum household foil.



Here you can see my comparison test,

from left to right:

Aluminum household foil - Bare-metal foil (New Improved Chrome) - Silver party streamer.



BTW, I had smoothed the Bare-metal foil strip several times with a Q-tip in the hope that it would shine more, but unfortunately without a significant effect.

And here in comparison with the party streamer and the silver foil of my Raumcon friend on top of the Bare-Metal foil, which looks relatively matt gloss,



which is not mirror-like for my taste, although the lighting always plays an important role.



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Re: Space Shuttle Launch Pad 39A with Challenger STS-6 (1:144)
« Reply #1399 on: 02/04/2018 05:15 PM »
Hello everybody,

the last few days there was still a nice surprise, because the featherweight package of Shapeways with the AFTCs has arrived,



and was very carefully unpacked, after all, it's my first, but certainly not my last. 
The Thanksgiving card made me even more curious.



At the first glance, everything was packed very well.



At first I was surprised by the number of bags , especially since I had ordered both versions, FUD and FXD, so four rings.



But now it's time for dinner,
see you later, and stay curious my friends ... 

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