Author Topic: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine  (Read 134992 times)

Offline flyright

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #380 on: 08/10/2017 02:35 PM »

...

And a link should you wish to read more: http://guest.warr.de/Archiv/Konferenzen/EUCASS_2013_Papers/full/p596.pdf

...


Thanks for this link! Lots of good info in this paper.

Offline su27k

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #381 on: 08/26/2017 04:33 AM »
Someone posted this on /r/BlueOrigin under the subject "New Commemorative Patch", hopefully this means we'll have some good news about BE-4 soon.

Offline StvB

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #382 on: 08/26/2017 04:06 PM »
Someone posted this on /r/BlueOrigin under the subject "New Commemorative Patch", hopefully this means we'll have some good news about BE-4 soon.

Thanks for sharing! Any ideas/guesses about the symbols? Google translates "conando ascendimus" to "trying to climb". There's what looks to be a roadrunner, eight stars, and 8-9 arrows, one of which is red with what looks like an explosion at the end.

It's also being called a "Commemorative" patch by the original poster on r/blueorigin.

Some kind of test milestone, possibly? What are the yellow lines on the engine meant to represent?
-Steve

Offline JH

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #383 on: 08/27/2017 06:47 PM »
More literally (and figuratively) accurate translations would be: "By striving, we ascend" or "We rise by exerting ourselves", or even "We rise by trying to rise" if you are in a tautological mood.
« Last Edit: 08/27/2017 07:00 PM by JH »

Offline coal_burner

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #384 on: 08/28/2017 12:31 PM »
on the lower right, there are 9 lines.
does the fact that the 2nd line is red signify that they are working on the 2nd step in a 9 step master plan?
« Last Edit: 08/28/2017 12:33 PM by coal_burner »

Offline spacenut

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #385 on: 08/28/2017 12:46 PM »
Does anyone know a timeframe for another test?

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #386 on: 08/28/2017 04:12 PM »
Does anyone know a timeframe for another test?

When it was announced in 2014, full scale testing was expected in 2016 and first flight in 2019.  I suppose one must add one year to each number at this point.  We're getting close to needing to add two years.  When was AR-1 supposed to be ready again?

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 08/28/2017 04:13 PM by edkyle99 »

Online Rebel44

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #387 on: 08/28/2017 05:52 PM »
Does anyone know a timeframe for another test?

When it was announced in 2014, full scale testing was expected in 2016 and first flight in 2019.  I suppose one must add one year to each number at this point.  We're getting close to needing to add two years.  When was AR-1 supposed to be ready again?

 - Ed Kyle

1st full scale full power test of AR-1 is expected in 2019 (if things go as planned...)
« Last Edit: 08/28/2017 08:03 PM by Rebel44 »

Offline woods170

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #388 on: 08/28/2017 07:19 PM »
Does anyone know a timeframe for another test?

When it was announced in 2014, full scale testing was expected in 2016 and first flight in 2019.  I suppose one must add one year to each number at this point.  We're getting close to needing to add two years.  When was AR-1 supposed to be ready again?

 - Ed Kyle
I'll bite Ed. AR-1 will be delayed just as much. No schedule ever holds in engine development. You of all people should know that.

Offline Chasm

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #389 on: 08/29/2017 04:24 AM »
on the lower right, there are 9 lines.
does the fact that the 2nd line is red signify that they are working on the 2nd step in a 9 step master plan?

9 lines, 1 of them red.
8 stars, none of them red.

Perhaps representing the number of test milestones (engines) and their major Oops?
(Terraserver imagery is from ~1 week before the oops, and nothing since. Frustrating)

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #390 on: 08/30/2017 01:13 PM »
Try imagery on planet.com because it's updated at least once a week and sometimes daily.
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Offline Chasm

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #391 on: 08/30/2017 01:57 PM »
Got (free) accounts for both, there are not enough details on planet.
planet.com imagery is 3m resolution, terraserver is 0.5m

I was looking for signs of the big oops, trying to find out how big it was. The difference even in the preview is truly massive. Planet has blobs, on terraserver you can easily see details, i.e. wich way a car is parked. Or on a bigger  scale you can distinguish single tanks, on planet the get grouped into unidentifiable blobs. To try damage assessment terraserver has test stand details like grinders/scaffolding that might get damaged in a major blowup.


There are of course other image companies but the ones I tried so far need paid accounts for high res previews. I'm not that interested. :)
« Last Edit: 08/30/2017 01:58 PM by Chasm »

Offline jpo234

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #392 on: 09/01/2017 08:04 AM »
on the lower right, there are 9 lines.
does the fact that the 2nd line is red signify that they are working on the 2nd step in a 9 step master plan?

9 lines, 1 of them red.
8 stars, none of them red.

Perhaps representing the number of test milestones (engines) and their major Oops?
(Terraserver imagery is from ~1 week before the oops, and nothing since. Frustrating)

Someone pointed out that the engine bell at the end of the red line seems to be incomplete (it is wider above the red line than below it). This could mean, that the lines represent the lasers of the additive manufacturing used to make the BE-4.
« Last Edit: 09/01/2017 08:06 AM by jpo234 »
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Online saliva_sweet

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #393 on: 09/06/2017 06:55 PM »
Is Blue Origin planning to colonize Mars now?

Offline testguy

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #394 on: 09/07/2017 07:05 PM »
IAC 2017 is getting close.  I would imagine if Blue has made significant progress on BE-4 there would be an announcement prior to Elon's next reveal.  Let's remember the competition between Jeff and Elon.  Wasn't there some one ups men ship last year at this time.  Let's hope that Blue has good news to share.

Offline spacenut

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #395 on: 09/07/2017 07:27 PM »
From what I understand, the first test of BE-4 failed.  The sub-scale test of Raptor was a success.  The first sub-scale test of AR-1 was a success.  Is this correct?  If so, seems as if BE-4 is falling behind. 

Offline DJPledger

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #396 on: 09/07/2017 07:29 PM »
From what I understand, the first test of BE-4 failed.  The sub-scale test of Raptor was a success.  The first sub-scale test of AR-1 was a success.  Is this correct?  If so, seems as if BE-4 is falling behind. 
A BE-4 powerpack failed earlier this year. Are you referring to this or has a full BE-4 engine failed recently?

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #397 on: 09/07/2017 08:07 PM »
Not right either. All we know is that there was a failure in test earlier this year, and that the failure that occurred was traced to the power pack/head.

We don't know the context of the failure, nor the scope of what needed to be replaced/reworked/rebuilt.

Although given the hint that they'd restart testing in "late summer" (e.g. "now"), that suggests a significant amount of work to recover.

Before they started this test sequence, they had spent time assembling multiple complete, full scale engines, and had done extensive testing of the powerpack (usually, this means that you convince yourself that this part of the engine has sufficient mass flow / stability / reliability to support a full scale engine on a test stand. (They had mentioned that they'd had some failures of the powerpack while proving it.)

Make no mistake - proving a powerpack to an engine of this scale is hard - note the F-1B powerpack test that was done a few years back. But then you typically attach an injector/combustion chamber next, in order to validate operation in start up / shut down / "burp". So it's hard to believe they were just testing the powerpack again.

Also, the test stand they were likely using appeared to have multiple cells, which makes sense, because you could then destroy a cell and use another while repairs could proceed on the destroyed cell.

The only exception to this is where the damage was larger than the cell, taking out the entire stand. Which would cause a multi-month delay like we're seeing.

This work is very tedious and often "goes backward". Redesign/rebuild/reprove/retest. With ORSC, you could end up in a "free fall" for a while, until things start working once again. Likely here.

Offline rsdavis9

Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #398 on: 09/07/2017 08:35 PM »
so raptor is a FFSC. Full Flow Staged Combustion and therefore one half of it is ORSC Oxygen Rich Staged Combustion. So Spacex has the same problems as Blue?
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline john smith 19

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Re: Blue Origin's BE-4 Engine
« Reply #399 on: 09/07/2017 08:37 PM »
Make no mistake - proving a powerpack to an engine of this scale is hard - note the F-1B powerpack test that was done a few years back. But then you typically attach an injector/combustion chamber next, in order to validate operation in start up / shut down / "burp". So it's hard to believe they were just testing the powerpack again.

This work is very tedious and often "goes backward". Redesign/rebuild/reprove/retest. With ORSC, you could end up in a "free fall" for a while, until things start working once again. Likely here.
Indeed.
It seems people have forgotten that the SSME destroyed 11 poweheads just to work out the start sequence.  :(

No one's built an ORSC in the US before. While it's true there has been a quantum leap in both diagnostics and processing power to model what's happening before a single hardware test cycle is attempted SC engines are much more interelated than GG cycle engines.

One of the SSME test rigs had 2000 valves to simulate the rest of the engine that had not been built. It really does seem the best way to build one of these is heavily simulate first, then build the first one fast and expect to build a bunch more 

In hindsight, depending on how far through the test programme they are, it may be quite impressive they've only destroyed one power pack so far.
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