Author Topic: ELC - 5  (Read 7102 times)

Offline Don Gordon

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
ELC - 5
« on: 07/14/2010 06:52 pm »
After the installation of the AMS, is there any place left to attach ELC-5?  Are there any items left that would need to be attached via ELC to take up when the extra shuttle flight is added by congress? (OK - still optimistic this will become a reality)?

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4046
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #1 on: 07/14/2010 07:16 pm »
Still pretty much the same as February:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20395.0

If it is approved, STS-135 is likely already spoken for, too --  at the payload carrier level, same as STS-335: MPLM and maybe a LMC:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/07/sts-135-nasa-discuss-mission-outline-ahead-approval/

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4046
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #2 on: 07/14/2010 07:51 pm »

Offline Don Gordon

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #3 on: 07/14/2010 08:18 pm »
Thanks for that info - but I was curious if there was any physical attach points left.  If not, the question is moot.  Or if there are any other places it could be attached besides the truss.  Or if there are any other ESPs that could go up and any attach points for them left.

Offline Danderman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10288
  • Liked: 699
  • Likes Given: 723
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #4 on: 07/14/2010 08:26 pm »
After the installation of the AMS, is there any place left to attach ELC-5?  Are there any items left that would need to be attached via ELC to take up when the extra shuttle flight is added by congress? (OK - still optimistic this will become a reality)?

One option is to switch out with an ELC already in place.

Offline psloss

  • Veteran armchair spectator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17980
  • Liked: 4046
  • Likes Given: 2089
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #5 on: 07/14/2010 08:32 pm »
Thanks for that info - but I was curious if there was any physical attach points left.  If not, the question is moot.  Or if there are any other places it could be attached besides the truss.  Or if there are any other ESPs that could go up and any attach points for them left.
As noted in the original thread, all the UCCAS and PAS mounts are spoken for:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20395.msg540477#msg540477

Offline Space Pete

Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #6 on: 07/14/2010 08:36 pm »
There will be no attachment points left on the Truss after STS-134/ULF-6 - all 4 PASs (Payload Attach Systems) on the S3 Truss and all 2 UCCASs (Unpressurised Cargo Carrier Attach Systems) on the P3 Truss will be occupied.
« Last Edit: 07/14/2010 11:50 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline Don Gordon

  • Member
  • Posts: 16
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #7 on: 07/15/2010 06:16 pm »
There will be no attachment points left on the Truss after STS-134/ULF-6 - all 4 PASs (Payload Attach Systems) on the S3 Truss and all 2 UCCASs (Unpressurised Cargo Carrier Attach Systems) on the P3 Truss will be occupied.

Thanks for the great graphic.  I see ESP 1 & 2 are not mounted on the truss.  Are there any other non truss attach points left?

Offline orbiter62995

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Without doubt, the most curious blogger on NSF.com
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #8 on: 07/17/2010 03:31 am »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.
––Orbiter 62995

Offline Space Pete

Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #9 on: 07/17/2010 12:45 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

PVRGFs have nothing to do with the ESPs - I think they attach to the TCS radiators to allow them to be grappled by the SSRMS (never rely on Wikipedia for technical space info ;)). An image of a PVRGF (mounted atop the P5 Truss and grappled by the SRMS during STS-116) is attached.
« Last Edit: 07/17/2010 01:06 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline orbiter62995

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Without doubt, the most curious blogger on NSF.com
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #10 on: 07/17/2010 01:17 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

Can't we "add" more trunion pins to Tranquility or Harmony and (A) attach the ELC-5 to it; -or- (B) move the ESP-3 and put the ELC-5 in its place on the Truss?

PVRGFs have nothing to do with the ESPs - I think they attach to the TCS radiators to allow them to be grappled by the SSRMS (never rely on Wikipedia for technical space info ;)). An image of a PVRGF (mounted atop the P5 Truss and grappled by the SRMS during STS-116) is attached.


Ah, touché.  I paid the price for a quick look.  I knew that sounded strange, "attaching a palette to a radiator".
« Last Edit: 07/17/2010 01:23 pm by orbiter62995 »
––Orbiter 62995

Offline Space Pete

Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #11 on: 07/17/2010 01:33 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

Can't we "add" more trunion pins to Tranquility or Harmony and (A) attach the ELC-5 to it; -or- (B) move the ESP-3 and put the ELC-5 in its place on the Truss?

Definitely not - Trunnion pins are load-bearing structural elements that attach to the structure of the module pressure shell. In other words, they are part of the "core structure" of a module, and cannot simply be "bolted on". There are numerous "free" Trunnion pins on the ISS currently, so another ESPAD-type device could probably be attached to any of those. However, ELC-5 is a fairly large and heavy item, and so clearances and structural loading would probably be "show stopping" issues for attaching ELC-5 to another ESPAD.
« Last Edit: 07/17/2010 01:34 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline orbiter62995

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Without doubt, the most curious blogger on NSF.com
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #12 on: 07/17/2010 03:45 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

Can't we "add" more trunion pins to Tranquility or Harmony and (A) attach the ELC-5 to it; -or- (B) move the ESP-3 and put the ELC-5 in its place on the Truss?

Definitely not - Trunnion pins are load-bearing structural elements that attach to the structure of the module pressure shell. In other words, they are part of the "core structure" of a module, and cannot simply be "bolted on". There are numerous "free" Trunnion pins on the ISS currently, so another ESPAD-type device could probably be attached to any of those. However, ELC-5 is a fairly large and heavy item, and so clearances and structural loading would probably be "show stopping" issues for attaching ELC-5 to another ESPAD.

Where are these pins located?  It may not be necessary, but if we did have an ELC-5, couldn't we do my aforementioned and quoted "Option B" plan and make this a three-step process:
1). Deliver an ESPAD on the LMC or ELC-5 slated for launch to the station on STS-135, and then have a crewmember attach it to the trunion pins.
2). Take Canadarm2 (or both robotic arms, need be) and relocate ESP-3
3). Place ELC-5 on the now-opened PAS created by ESP-3 relocation
––Orbiter 62995

Offline Space Pete

Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #13 on: 07/17/2010 04:43 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

Can't we "add" more trunion pins to Tranquility or Harmony and (A) attach the ELC-5 to it; -or- (B) move the ESP-3 and put the ELC-5 in its place on the Truss?

Definitely not - Trunnion pins are load-bearing structural elements that attach to the structure of the module pressure shell. In other words, they are part of the "core structure" of a module, and cannot simply be "bolted on". There are numerous "free" Trunnion pins on the ISS currently, so another ESPAD-type device could probably be attached to any of those. However, ELC-5 is a fairly large and heavy item, and so clearances and structural loading would probably be "show stopping" issues for attaching ELC-5 to another ESPAD.

Where are these pins located?  It may not be necessary, but if we did have an ELC-5, couldn't we do my aforementioned and quoted "Option B" plan and make this a three-step process:
1). Deliver an ESPAD on the LMC or ELC-5 slated for launch to the station on STS-135, and then have a crewmember attach it to the trunion pins.
2). Take Canadarm2 (or both robotic arms, need be) and relocate ESP-3
3). Place ELC-5 on the now-opened PAS created by ESP-3 relocation

Trunnion pins can be found on any ISS component delivered by the Shuttle (the Trunnion pins are what hold the payloads in the PLB). It may be possible to add another ESPAD to an unused Trunnion pin and relocate ESP-3 to it, but as I said earlier, there would likely be clearance and structural loading issues. Additional wiring would also be needed to provide ESP-3 with electrical power + data/command & control capability.
« Last Edit: 07/17/2010 04:44 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline orbiter62995

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Without doubt, the most curious blogger on NSF.com
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #14 on: 07/17/2010 05:33 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

Can't we "add" more trunion pins to Tranquility or Harmony and (A) attach the ELC-5 to it; -or- (B) move the ESP-3 and put the ELC-5 in its place on the Truss?

Definitely not - Trunnion pins are load-bearing structural elements that attach to the structure of the module pressure shell. In other words, they are part of the "core structure" of a module, and cannot simply be "bolted on". There are numerous "free" Trunnion pins on the ISS currently, so another ESPAD-type device could probably be attached to any of those. However, ELC-5 is a fairly large and heavy item, and so clearances and structural loading would probably be "show stopping" issues for attaching ELC-5 to another ESPAD.

Where are these pins located?  It may not be necessary, but if we did have an ELC-5, couldn't we do my aforementioned and quoted "Option B" plan and make this a three-step process:
1). Deliver an ESPAD on the LMC or ELC-5 slated for launch to the station on STS-135, and then have a crewmember attach it to the trunion pins.
2). Take Canadarm2 (or both robotic arms, need be) and relocate ESP-3
3). Place ELC-5 on the now-opened PAS created by ESP-3 relocation

Trunnion pins can be found on any ISS component delivered by the Shuttle (the Trunnion pins are what hold the payloads in the PLB). It may be possible to add another ESPAD to an unused Trunnion pin and relocate ESP-3 to it, but as I said earlier, there would likely be clearance and structural loading issues. Additional wiring would also be needed to provide ESP-3 with electrical power + data/command & control capability.

So it's possible, but unlikely (not like having ELC-5 was likely to become an STS-135 payload, which is an unlikely mission in and of itself too).
––Orbiter 62995

Offline Space Pete

Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #15 on: 07/17/2010 05:52 pm »
The ESPs aren't deployed to PASes–The ESP-3 is deployed to a PVRGF (PhotoVoltaic Radiator Grappling Fixture) and ESP-2 is mounted to a ESPAD, or ESP Attachment Device (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_Stowage_Platform).  ESP-1 is unclear.

• ESP-1 is attached to the aft-portside facing Trunnion pin on the Lab.
• ESP-2 is attached to the ESPAD, and the ESPAD is attached to the
  two forward facing Trunnion pins on the A/L.
• ESP-3 is attached to the nadir-outboard PAS (PAS no. 4) on the S3
  Truss.

Can't we "add" more trunion pins to Tranquility or Harmony and (A) attach the ELC-5 to it; -or- (B) move the ESP-3 and put the ELC-5 in its place on the Truss?

Definitely not - Trunnion pins are load-bearing structural elements that attach to the structure of the module pressure shell. In other words, they are part of the "core structure" of a module, and cannot simply be "bolted on". There are numerous "free" Trunnion pins on the ISS currently, so another ESPAD-type device could probably be attached to any of those. However, ELC-5 is a fairly large and heavy item, and so clearances and structural loading would probably be "show stopping" issues for attaching ELC-5 to another ESPAD.

Where are these pins located?  It may not be necessary, but if we did have an ELC-5, couldn't we do my aforementioned and quoted "Option B" plan and make this a three-step process:
1). Deliver an ESPAD on the LMC or ELC-5 slated for launch to the station on STS-135, and then have a crewmember attach it to the trunion pins.
2). Take Canadarm2 (or both robotic arms, need be) and relocate ESP-3
3). Place ELC-5 on the now-opened PAS created by ESP-3 relocation

Trunnion pins can be found on any ISS component delivered by the Shuttle (the Trunnion pins are what hold the payloads in the PLB). It may be possible to add another ESPAD to an unused Trunnion pin and relocate ESP-3 to it, but as I said earlier, there would likely be clearance and structural loading issues. Additional wiring would also be needed to provide ESP-3 with electrical power + data/command & control capability.

So it's possible, but unlikely (not like having ELC-5 was likely to become an STS-135 payload, which is an unlikely mission in and of itself too).

Don't be so sure of that (STS-135) these days! ;)
« Last Edit: 07/17/2010 05:52 pm by Space Pete »
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline orbiter62995

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Without doubt, the most curious blogger on NSF.com
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #16 on: 07/17/2010 06:27 pm »
Don't be so sure of that (STS-135) these days! ;)

Are you suggesting that you think it will fly?
––Orbiter 62995

Offline Space Pete

Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #17 on: 07/17/2010 06:39 pm »
Don't be so sure of that (STS-135) these days! ;)

Are you suggesting that you think it will fly?

I'll stick my neck out and say yes, I think it will fly. ;)
NASASpaceflight ISS Editor

Offline orbiter62995

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 128
  • Without doubt, the most curious blogger on NSF.com
  • Liked: 0
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #18 on: 07/17/2010 07:57 pm »
Don't be so sure of that (STS-135) these days! ;)

Are you suggesting that you think it will fly?

I'll stick my neck out and say yes, I think it will fly. ;)

That'd be nice.  At this point though, it'll be mid-April 2011 before it does, correct?
––Orbiter 62995

Offline Jorge

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6404
  • Liked: 529
  • Likes Given: 67
Re: ELC - 5
« Reply #19 on: 07/17/2010 08:03 pm »
Don't be so sure of that (STS-135) these days! ;)

Are you suggesting that you think it will fly?

I'll stick my neck out and say yes, I think it will fly. ;)

That'd be nice.  At this point though, it'll be mid-April 2011 before it does, correct?

No, no earlier than June.
JRF

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1