...but this is more trustworthy:-http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2009/03/aresorion-slipping-18-months-shuttle-extension-upper-hand/(Note: my highlighting).-----QuoteThe situation with Ares is known in key areas of the Agency, with a “9th Floor” NASA HQ effort already taking place to evaluate the viability of cancelling Ares I, and replacing the launch vehicle with an EELV (Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle) - such as an Atlas V Heavy or a Delta IV Heavy - whilst moving the Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) effort towards concentrating on Ares V.----------Wow, that's strong stuff.Well, Ross did say that the brown stuff was about to hit the fan. I'd say it's hit, stuck, and is now spraying all over the room.cheers, Martin
The situation with Ares is known in key areas of the Agency, with a “9th Floor” NASA HQ effort already taking place to evaluate the viability of cancelling Ares I, and replacing the launch vehicle with an EELV (Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle) - such as an Atlas V Heavy or a Delta IV Heavy - whilst moving the Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC) effort towards concentrating on Ares V.
If they cancel Ares-I, then they should just cancel the whole Ares program outright. There is no way Ares-V is going to be any more successful than Ares-I.
Does anyone else find it quite interesting that Ross and Chuck haven't been around in a while? Could be a good sign, maybe?
Quote from: Mark S on 03/27/2009 06:27 pmIf they cancel Ares-I, then they should just cancel the whole Ares program outright. There is no way Ares-V is going to be any more successful than Ares-I.That would depend on what it looks like when (if) it finally flies -- if it winds up having an uncanny resemblance to a JS-246, I would think it has a good chance for success.
Quote from: kch on 03/27/2009 06:38 pmQuote from: Mark S on 03/27/2009 06:27 pmIf they cancel Ares-I, then they should just cancel the whole Ares program outright. There is no way Ares-V is going to be any more successful than Ares-I.That would depend on what it looks like when (if) it finally flies -- if it winds up having an uncanny resemblance to a JS-246, I would think it has a good chance for success.Remember, they are talking about using EELV for Orion CLV. That means that Ares-V would still have to be a monster able to lift both the Altair and the Ares EDS, with enough fuel for the TLI burn.Shrinking the Ares-V down to a Jupiter-sized vehicle will only work if they move to a dual launch (or triple w/EELV) architecture. The DIRECT plan calls for a dual J-232 launch (or JS-246 etc), with one launching the Orion and Altair to LEO, and the second launching the EDS (with fuel) to meet them. No Jupiter configuration would be large enough to launch the Altair and the EDS with enough fuel left over for the TLI burn.Mark S.
Quote from: chuck34 on 03/27/2009 07:05 pmDoes anyone else find it quite interesting that Ross and Chuck haven't been around in a while? Could be a good sign, maybe?I believe they were both going to be at KSC.. Weren't they looking for people to meet up with them for drinks/dinner? Don't remember what day tho..
Quote from: Mark S on 03/27/2009 07:19 pmQuote from: kch on 03/27/2009 06:38 pmQuote from: Mark S on 03/27/2009 06:27 pmIf they cancel Ares-I, then they should just cancel the whole Ares program outright. There is no way Ares-V is going to be any more successful than Ares-I.That would depend on what it looks like when (if) it finally flies -- if it winds up having an uncanny resemblance to a JS-246, I would think it has a good chance for success.Remember, they are talking about using EELV for Orion CLV. That means that Ares-V would still have to be a monster able to lift both the Altair and the Ares EDS, with enough fuel for the TLI burn.Shrinking the Ares-V down to a Jupiter-sized vehicle will only work if they move to a dual launch (or triple w/EELV) architecture. The DIRECT plan calls for a dual J-232 launch (or JS-246 etc), with one launching the Orion and Altair to LEO, and the second launching the EDS (with fuel) to meet them. No Jupiter configuration would be large enough to launch the Altair and the EDS with enough fuel left over for the TLI burn.Mark S.UNless they're talking Orion on EELV only to close the gap for ISS.. Even DIRECT proposed using EELVs for ISS missions.
Quote from: TrueBlueWitt on 03/27/2009 07:19 pmQuote from: chuck34 on 03/27/2009 07:05 pmDoes anyone else find it quite interesting that Ross and Chuck haven't been around in a while? Could be a good sign, maybe?I believe they were both going to be at KSC.. Weren't they looking for people to meet up with them for drinks/dinner? Don't remember what day tho.. Hm, very suspicious. What with the recent rumors of a successful NASA Administrator pick.... I wonder... Could this so-called 'drinks and dinner' date in Florida really be.... a SECRET ANNOUNCEMENT party?!??Mark S.
Quote from: TrueBlueWitt on 03/27/2009 07:21 pmQuote from: Mark S on 03/27/2009 07:19 pmQuote from: kch on 03/27/2009 06:38 pmQuote from: Mark S on 03/27/2009 06:27 pmIf they cancel Ares-I, then they should just cancel the whole Ares program outright. There is no way Ares-V is going to be any more successful than Ares-I.That would depend on what it looks like when (if) it finally flies -- if it winds up having an uncanny resemblance to a JS-246, I would think it has a good chance for success.Remember, they are talking about using EELV for Orion CLV. That means that Ares-V would still have to be a monster able to lift both the Altair and the Ares EDS, with enough fuel for the TLI burn.Shrinking the Ares-V down to a Jupiter-sized vehicle will only work if they move to a dual launch (or triple w/EELV) architecture. The DIRECT plan calls for a dual J-232 launch (or JS-246 etc), with one launching the Orion and Altair to LEO, and the second launching the EDS (with fuel) to meet them. No Jupiter configuration would be large enough to launch the Altair and the EDS with enough fuel left over for the TLI burn.Mark S.UNless they're talking Orion on EELV only to close the gap for ISS.. Even DIRECT proposed using EELVs for ISS missions.Maybe. But I seem to recall that existing EELV are not capable of launching the lunar block Orion, only the block-1 ISS version. If so, that would leave them still needing a dual Ares-V launch to get to the moon.And if that's the case, then they can shrink the Ares-V, and maintain that it is NOT Direct or Jupiter at all. Just a "right-sized" Ares for a dual launch architecture. Not DIRECT, no siree....Mark S.
-Dr. Michael D. Griffin, NASA Administrator May 3, 2005 (Interview with SpaceRef)"As NASA Administrator, I already own a Heavy Lifter (in) the Space Shuttle stack. I will not give that up lightly and, in fact, can't responsibly do so because any other solution for getting 100 tons into orbit is going to be more expensive than efficiently utilizing what we already own."
-Dr. Michael D. Griffin, NASA Administrator February 5, 2007 (Press Conference at NASA-HQ):“The FY07 appropriations, if enacted as the House has resolved, will jeopardize our ability to transition safely and efficiently from the Shuttle to the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle and the Ares-I Crew Launch Vehicle. It will have serious effects on people, projects, and programs this year and for the longer term.”
-Dr. Michael D. Griffin, NASA Administrator August 31, 2005 (AIAA Space 2005 Conference & Exhibition)“From 1975-1981, between the retirement of the Apollo-Saturn system and the first flight of the Shuttle, the United States did not have the capability to send humans into space, our country was not driving the space exploration agenda, and our aerospace workforce was decimated. We lost valuable people from the program, people who never came back. We lost valuable skills that were relearned with difficulty, or not at all. We lost momentum. Let us learn from these experiences. Let us not repeat them. Let us at least make a new mistake.”
Would I be correct in assuming a slip of the Ares I test, and a Shuttle extension would help the case for Direct by insuring that the supplier contracts for the shuttle will stay intact?
Hm, very suspicious. What with the recent rumors of a successful NASA Administrator pick.... I wonder... Could this so-called 'drinks and dinner' date in Florida really be.... a SECRET ANNOUNCEMENT party?!??
Just for giggles, here are images of a J2 and RL10 for visual size comparison purposes.
What I would give to have one of those babies in my house
Quote from: robertross on 03/27/2009 09:37 pmWhat I would give to have one of those babies in my houseReally? I was thinking the RL-10 would make a great anti-tailgater device for my Prius.