Author Topic: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?  (Read 13013 times)

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #20 on: 09/29/2016 03:28 AM »
The Mars Society and/or The Planetary Society come to mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can achieve results. Establishing a consortium of some sort to advocate for the ICT plan might be the way forward.

Funny, The Mars Society and The Planetary Society come to my mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can fail to achieve anything of substance.

Offline sdsds

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #21 on: 09/29/2016 05:12 AM »
Practice using social media effectively. "Like" stuff. "Follow" someone. "Share" your enthusiasm.

(For those in the advanced class: "Boost" something.)
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 05:13 AM by sdsds »
-- sdsds --

Offline savuporo

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #22 on: 09/29/2016 05:39 AM »
What can WE do? What could YOU do?
Apply for and land a job in one of the companies working towards that end. There is no greater capital than human capital, and no greater contribution than solving some of the hard problems.
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Offline sanman

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #23 on: 09/29/2016 08:02 AM »
Funny, The Mars Society and The Planetary Society come to my mind as good examples of how space enthusiasts can fail to achieve anything of substance.

Yeah, but to be fair, they were formed in a time before dreamer nerds got super-rich. If Arthur C Clarke or Robert Heinlein had achieved Warren Buffett's wealth, then maybe we could at least seen attempts at stuff like this. If Howard Hughes had been born 20 years later and ended up as more of a space enthusiast, then we could have seen more attempts at stuff like this.

All these societies have gone down the path of promoting discussion and trying to influence public policy, but nobody's had the means or the temperament to be another Cecil Rhodes.

And of course technology has reached a threshold level to make the barriers surmountable.

Online Lars-J

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #24 on: 09/29/2016 08:04 AM »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

Bingo. If you have the $$$, that's the most direct way to do it.   :)
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 08:05 AM by Lars-J »

Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #25 on: 09/29/2016 08:33 AM »
Trying to summarize. So far, we have:

Buy a Tesla. That certainly helps, as Tesla serves as the "bank" which Elon might one day sell his shares in to finance the Mars plan. However, Tesla is also taking huge risks, so your indirect investment into ITS is as safe as that company might be (I ordered a Model 3 earlier this year, so I am ready to accept the risks). If it goes bankrupt, so goes the Mars financing plan - and your well-meant contribution to it. That has to be kept in mind.

Convince the public. I don't think this is going to work very well. For many people, even people interested in technology, Musk's proposal is plain simply crazy. As long as they don't see a BFR take off (at least!), they will not believe the Mars colony is actually happening. This is a long way off and on the other side of the financing round that will be needed to get the whole thing started.

Some kind of "bank", foundation or trust. I could see this working. Think about it like that: if there really is, as Elon speculates, a million people in the world who would eventually be ready to pay 200'000 $ for a flight to Mars - could there a million people in the world willing to pay 10'000 $ to develop the initial capability? Or 10 million people ready to pay 1'000 $? A 100 million to pay 100 $? Any scenario would get us there. Perhaps some kind of fundraising website, a "10 year kickstarter" (without kickstarter) as cebri said, independent from SpaceX, perhaps in a form so that all donations are tax-deductible.

Get rich and donate. Sure. Who wouldn't want that, and if I have a good idea, I might try. An so should everybody else. But perhaps - and this is one of the motivations for this thread - the community could be more powerful at reaching such a goal collaboratively (like the trust idea above - there might be other ideas) than individually?

Like, Follow, be a missionary for Mars, etc. That is likely to be a necessary but by no means sufficient effort.

Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #26 on: 09/29/2016 09:19 AM »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D
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Offline KelvinZero

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #27 on: 09/29/2016 10:14 AM »
Support politicians who support commercial crew. Try to get your workmates a bit angry about the politicians funding SLS, legislating the specifications (expensive), the companies (shuttle derived), with payload and mission very obviously not a priority at all.

Offline hektor

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #28 on: 09/29/2016 12:44 PM »
Gather 100 people in a building of size comparable to the crew cabin of the ITS and stay there for 115 days ? With a maximum hype ?

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #29 on: 09/29/2016 12:53 PM »
Pick-up Amazon as a sponsor :o or offer them as a provider for "home delivery" on Mars... ;)
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Offline francesco nicoli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #30 on: 09/29/2016 12:59 PM »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #31 on: 09/29/2016 01:01 PM »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.   

Offline francesco nicoli

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #32 on: 09/29/2016 01:05 PM »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.   

fair enough. But if you mean SpaceX flights, then the "prize" logic still works. However, the unitary value of rocks from previous flights is likely too high for rewarding a kickstarter, just because of relative scarcity at that point in time.

Offline Bynaus

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #33 on: 09/29/2016 01:06 PM »
I like the kickstarting idea. But for a lot of people to donate you have to capture their imagination and make them passionate. Nobody shells money without expecting anything in return without passion. Certainly Elon does a lot to show where his hearth (and money) are, and surely his message is stronger and more widespread than NASA's #JourneyToMars. But that doesn't suffice. I noticed NatGeo has covered the IAC speech on Twitter and I read SpaceX is deeply involved with their new TV series 'Mars' about future manned missions. It's clear from the trailer that SpaceX provided them with an early insight on ITS design. Maybe we will see other collaborations of this kind in the future?

Personally I bought 100$ worth of swag on their store, it's a drop of water but as a student I can't really afford more than that. And that terraforming mug is awesome  ;D

well when the first ITS comes back, it could bring quite a lot of mars material, including stones.
I would be willing to pay quite a lot to have my hands on some of the first martian rocks brought back. rocks would be by far the cheapest way to reward donors.

But then again: I think the first ITS cargo back will be fully purchased by nasa, all agencies, universities, etc..........

There will have been many other flights before that will have returned mars material long before the first ITS flight.   

Not so sure about that. And even if, that material will 1) be stored away, 2) be distributed in tiny amounts to researchers world-wide and 3) used in museum exhibits. It will also be very limited, a few kg at most.

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).

I think its a good idea to help with the overall appeal of donating to such a foundation.

Offline TaurusLittrow

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #34 on: 09/29/2016 01:08 PM »
Buy a bunch of Teslas.

Seriously. EM said he was accumulating wealth for the purpose funding his Mars vision. Alternatively, buy Tesla stock and hold...OK maybe with a stop-loss order just in case ;)

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #35 on: 09/29/2016 01:11 PM »
"We" don't need to do anything other than going to work for Spacex.    If it is going to happen, it will be because Spacex will continue to be a healthy company and make money to support this endeavor (along with a few real investors).  Kickstarting is going to be a drop in the bucket.  Buying swag?  Swag is suppose to be given out free.  If somebody wants me to advertise for them, they pay me or give me the item for free.
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 01:11 PM by Jim »

Offline Jim

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #36 on: 09/29/2016 01:13 PM »

Theoretically, ITS could bring back 25 tons of Mars rocks or so. 40 kg for every donor if there are 1 million of them... (realistically, it will be less, but you get the point).


And it will have no value in those quantities.  It is no longer rare

Offline M.E.T.

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #37 on: 09/29/2016 01:36 PM »
The reference to Mars Sample returns prior to the first ITS flight got me curious. So it seems that the NASA  lander in 2020 will cost $2bn, and that it will be the first of three missions spread over multiple years that will combine to bring a small sample back to Earth, probably by the mid 2020's at the earliest, I would guess.

Let's guestimate the overall cost for a small sample return at $5bn then. That's half of the entire development costs for the ITS, which could bring back all the samples that Nasa could possibly desire, in addition to achieving so much else.

So $5bn dollars for a few kg's returned to Earth, vs. $10bn for a fully reusable ITS.


Offline Navier–Stokes

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #38 on: 09/29/2016 01:41 PM »
What about a bond issue from SpaceX to support Mars colonization? It could be along the lines of SolarCity's solar bonds except longer term and lower interest.

Offline Krevsin

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Re: What can WE do to make Elon's Mars dream a reality?
« Reply #39 on: 09/29/2016 01:44 PM »
Easy, mail Elon a 10 billion cheque through the mail.  ;D
« Last Edit: 09/29/2016 01:45 PM by Krevsin »

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