Author Topic: Private Moon Landing in the works?  (Read 152801 times)

Offline Warren Platts

Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #300 on: 12/02/2012 08:08 pm »
Interesting first link provided by Golden Spike that perhaps sheds some light on their motivation:

http://www.americaspace.org/?p=27669

It's about the 40th aniversary of Apollo 17 and how the astronaut/scientist crew (who were originally slated for Apollo 18) were selected for the mission.

In other news: Interesting rumor that Warren Buffet may be involved. He could bankroll the whole mission without a big dent in his portfolio! Golden Spike on FB also threw out Stevie Nicks' name: that would be fun to have Stevie a captivated in small capsule for a weeklong junket to the Moon! Wishful thinking on Dr. Stern's part, thoughm, no doubt! ;)

Latest tweet from GoldenSpike@GoldenSpikeCo: Tweet, tweet, @GoldenSpikeCo appreciates your retweets. Let others know what was underground will soon emerge!
« Last Edit: 12/02/2012 08:20 pm by Warren Platts »
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Offline arachnitect

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #301 on: 12/02/2012 08:34 pm »

In other news: Interesting rumor that Warren Buffet may be involved.

Says who, and how would they know?

Offline Nelson Bridwell

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #302 on: 12/02/2012 08:53 pm »
Homer Hickam says that yes, he does have plans for Thusday afternoon...

http://www.facebook.com/hhickam#!/HomerHickam?fref=ts

Offline go4mars

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #303 on: 12/02/2012 08:56 pm »
And if that credible and brilliant scientist said it was realisitic, then how come we don't have Orions blasting off to Mars and Saturn every day?
Because Freeman subsequently calculated how many cancer related deaths were likely per launch.  Golden Spike won't have any similar consequence. 

Perhaps Warren Buffet types would be of more use in adding credibility for the general public nowadays.  People would assume, probably correctly, that Warren would have the idea vetted by several very bright people who have appropriate expertise.  He can afford good advice, and like most billionaires, is financially conservative by nature.
« Last Edit: 12/02/2012 09:00 pm by go4mars »
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Offline ChefPat

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #304 on: 12/02/2012 10:20 pm »
Quote from: Clark Lindsey

I see that Bobby Block is their press contact person. He was a space reporter for the Orlando Sentinel and then left to work for SpaceX for awhile and was most recently with the CASIS organization, which organizes research projects for the ISS.

If so, I will enjoy watching this enterprise fail.  While Mr. Block was at the Orlando Sentinel the newspaper waged war against NASA's plans to return astronauts to the Moon.  The Sentinel won, which is why there are no plans for a U.S. lunar return.

 - Ed Kyle
It certainly looks like an American effort to return to the Lunar Surface to me.
Playing Politics with Commercial Crew is Un-American!!!

Offline edkyle99

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #305 on: 12/02/2012 10:30 pm »
It certainly looks like an American effort to return to the Lunar Surface to me.
We'll have to see where the money comes from.

 - Ed Kyle
« Last Edit: 12/02/2012 10:31 pm by edkyle99 »

Offline simonbp

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #306 on: 12/03/2012 02:31 am »
Indeed, but private funding for grand project is a much more "American" way to do it that getting it all from taxes. "Destination Moon" has always been a favorite of mine for exactly that reason.

Speaking of which, you can't argue with the picture Golden Spike just tweeted... ;)
« Last Edit: 12/03/2012 02:33 am by simonbp »

Offline Bill White

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #307 on: 12/03/2012 03:17 am »
We also can't argue with NasaWatch Tweet:

"No funding? No game change!"
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Offline daveklingler

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #308 on: 12/03/2012 04:07 am »
I'm going to throw my guesses into the ring, just for the heck of it.  I'm not an L2 subscriber, so I'm sure lots of L2 folks know a lot more than I do.  Come to that, I don't know anything.

- International Lunar Observatory Association is involved as a funder, because they've already offered a portion of the money.
- SpaceX launchers with new lox/methane upper stages, because it's a technical fit and because lox/methane could work well for depots
- Bigelow hab, because they're already involved with SpaceX and because they're the only inflatable game in town
- EML1, because it has a great view for tourists (as pointed out a while back in another thread by John Fornaro) and it currently looks as good or better than a lunar orbit
- 2-stage lox/methane reusable lander, because it's simple to build a reusable lander that way (alternative would be NOFBX, but since Elon wants to head to Mars, it seems to me he'd go for lox/methane.
- Dragon return capsule, because it (almost) exists

Structuring a deal like this one would help SpaceX with Dragon and upper stage development, especially in the face of reduced CCiCap funding, whether or not it succeeds.  And a lot of pieces are in place or on the way.

*edit - I just re-read Homer Hickam's open letter to Bolden from 2010, which mentions building a lunar cycler.  Lunar cyclers (along with Homer Hickam's presence) might fit the whole "golden spike" paradigm a lot better than the more conventional pieces I've described above.
« Last Edit: 12/03/2012 04:54 am by daveklingler »

Offline QuantumG

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #309 on: 12/03/2012 05:43 am »
we don't even know if it is even going to be a manned lunar landing.

Yes we do.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline aquanaut99

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #310 on: 12/03/2012 05:54 am »
we don't even know if it is even going to be a manned lunar landing.

Yes we do.


Have you heard the official announcement yet? Because I sure haven't.

Online docmordrid

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #311 on: 12/03/2012 06:19 am »
>
- Bigelow hab, because they're already involved with SpaceX and because they're the only inflatable game in town
>

Paragon and Thin Red Line Aerospace are also developing an expandable hab based on TRL's Ultra-High Performance Vessel (UHPV). Thin Red Line has also worked on the Bigelow expandables, and with NASA, Boeing etc.

http://www.thin-red-line.com/projects.html
« Last Edit: 12/03/2012 06:52 am by docmordrid »
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Offline QuantumG

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #312 on: 12/03/2012 06:23 am »
we don't even know if it is even going to be a manned lunar landing.

Yes we do.


Have you heard the official announcement yet? Because I sure haven't.

I don't know when you're going to figure this out: if Chris has said it, it's as good as true. That's how real journalism works.
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline sfjcody_

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #313 on: 12/03/2012 06:53 am »
On a lighter note, on the subject of a return to the Moon- this rewording of a perennially popular UK football anthem occurred to me the other day. Would work better if I really were old enough to remember Apollo, but still.

To the tune of 'Three Lions'

We’re going back
We’re going back
We’re going
Mankind’s going back…
(x4)

Everyone seems to know the score
They've seen it all before
They just know
They're so sure

That mankind's never
Leaving this shack
Think we'll never go back
But I know they’re just hacks
Cos' I remember

Boots on lunar dirt
Golden foil gleaming
40 Years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming

So many jokes, so many jeers
But all those oh so nears
Wear you down
Through the years

But I still see that
Unearthly view
Of a world old and new
When the future was cool
And Eagle landed…

Boots on lunar dirt
Golden foil gleaming
40 Years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming

I know that was then
But it could be again

We’re going back
We’re going back
We’re going
Mankind’s going back…
 (x4)

Boots on lunar dirt
Golden foil gleaming
40 Years of hurt
Never stopped me dreaming
 (repeat to fade)
« Last Edit: 12/03/2012 07:12 am by sfjcody_ »

Offline spaceboy89

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Offline Borklund

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #315 on: 12/03/2012 08:20 am »
There's been a whole lot of nonsense in this thread the last few pages :( I'm not even sure who's sarcastic anymore.

The Sun's photoshopped image made me chortle :D
« Last Edit: 12/03/2012 11:33 am by Borklund »

Offline Ben the Space Brit

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #316 on: 12/03/2012 12:07 pm »
The Sun has now picked this up

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/4677877/Richard-Branson-moon-trip-plan.html

If The Sun is correct in the details of its story, then we might have some idea of the mid- to long-term business case.  Virgin Galactic is all about space tourism, after all, and I can't see Mr Branson funding something  (no matter how cool) with no hope of some return on his investment.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #317 on: 12/03/2012 12:59 pm »
There's been a whole lot of nonsense in this thread the last few pages :( I'm not even sure who's sarcastic anymore.



Yes there is, and I've removed most of it.

While I'm really looking forward to locking this thread as it's gone the way most pre-announcement threads usually go, twice in a day or so we've had people calling out people/writers - by name - in a way that's really not on. We can't allow that as at the bottom end it's right of reply or lack thereof (i.e. you can call me out as it's my site and I can respond. This isn't the "feedback" area for other sites) and the top end they could treat it as slander.

Not too pleased about the Sun link. That's a tabloid known for crap and also is something I've boycotted since the Hillsbrough disaster. Suppose I have to leave that on here :(

Now everyone please behave.
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #318 on: 12/03/2012 05:46 pm »
Simply by dropping a few names, it is possible to make the most unlikely and outlandish proposals sound respectable and newsworthy.
Someone should send Freeman Dyson a text message. 

For the Planetary Resources PR event they named investors but refused to provide any budget figures, which can lead one to wonder if a few ultra-wealthy people gave them a token donation just for fun, or in order to get them to go away.  That their total headcount is only something like two dozen and they need to find peripheral sources of revenue to keep the lights turned on suggests that they could be operating on a shoestring.

Just a few years ago, in 2008, there was the announcement by Galactic Suites that they would have a space hotel in LEO by 2012, with the modules constructed by EADS Astrium.  However, that was total news to Astrium, which denied any knowledge of the project

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_Suite_Design
 
If Golden Spike can priovide real budget figures then it could be an indication that they are real, which would be a welcome change from the usual snake oil cures for futuritis.
You've hit on something, here.

Just because billionaires support something doesn't mean they're going to give billions to it. (Though I don't think they want them to just "go away.") Putting billions into something like Planetary Resources /right now/ would probably be a horrible investment decision. But a few million to advance the state of current knowledge? That may work. You don't massively reduce costs by starting out with an enormous financial investment... You'd just be encouraging wasteful spending.

They've got a good concept with the Arkyd spacecraft. It solves some important problems for the long-term vision and is a decent idea all by itself and can be done for a relatively small investment. Planetary Resources' only chance is to figure out how to do something that sounds like it'd cost trillions (i.e. mine asteroids) for only billions or maybe even just in the hundreds of millions. But to get to that point, to figure out exactly what they need to build, what asteroids to target, and how to process them, they need to build Arkyd and develop it as a flexible platform that can mostly pay for itself (or it will never get to the end-goal while still being affordable).

There are lots of little hobby-become-startup space groups out there with small teams and small funding (or no funding) but hoping to accomplish grand visions. What is Golden Spike? Probably something like that, maybe more. But whatever it is, I sort of doubt they'll be a fully-formed and funded private Apollo program. Which is fine. This sort of stuff takes time, and there are lots of interesting advances being made that will make this increasingly doable.
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Offline manboy

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Re: Private Moon Landing in the works?
« Reply #319 on: 12/03/2012 05:56 pm »
[But since you mentioned it... *POOF* ISS is dead and you now have ~$3.2B/yr for the foreseeable future (maybe, if the funds don't disappear off the "fiscal cliff").  As far as I can tell, that's still not going to get you very far towards "real missions to the Moon and then Mars" any time soon unless you also scrap NASA's DRM's.

Where do you think the Augustine request for an additional $3B per year for NASA came from?  Someone correct me if my numbers are slightly off, but the ISS was not in the NASA budget beyond 2015, so they killed Constellation in order to have money to keep ISS alive long enought to provide a justification for CCDev.  In addition, shuttle budget overruns also cut into Constellation's very limited development budget.  At least that is the way Wayne Hale tells it:

http://waynehale.wordpress.com/2010/09/23/6/

(I can fully empathize with anyone who thinks it is foolish to spend all that money on the ISS and only use it for a few years.  Even so, I am not sure that LEO is a meaningful objective for NASA.  To quote our great leader, "We've been there before." )
Wasn't Obama referring to the Moon?
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