Two things that were memorable:1. VP Pence stating that we're returning to our Moon for strategic reasons - national security.2. Trump stating that his policy is about jobs.The first one is very scary, since I don't think anyone wants to militarize space. That would just hasten the end of Earth, which means maybe we should be all shoving money at Elon Musk to hurry up and get the Mars colony going.As for jobs, Trump doesn't know anything more about "space" than he does about the military (i.e. very little), which means Congress can just keep funding NASA for jobs like they like to do, and not much needs to get accomplished. And likely Congress won't increase NASA's funding, which if so would be bad news for the SLS and Orion programs, which currently don't have any funded programs or payloads that they are needed to support. More status quo is bad for them.So did anything change today? No.
Space has been militarized for a long time.
There is however national security implications for a presence on the moon. The reasoning starts with the realization that it is far easier to move from the Moon to any Earth orbit than it is to move material from Earth's surface. If a nation were able to establish a base on the moon that would be supplied by resources on the Moon (ISRU), then that nation would dominate space economically and militarily.
Of course we know that there are many difficulties in establishing a base on the moon and doing ISRU on a significant scale, but I do not think there is anyone who believes it is beyond our technological capability.
The White HouseOffice of the Press SecretaryFor Immediate Release. December 11, 2017Presidential Memorandum on Reinvigorating America's Human Space Exploration ProgramMEMORANDUM FOR THE VICE PRESIDENTTHE SECRETARY OF STATETHE SECRETARY OF DEFENSETHE SECRETARY OF COMMERCETHE SECRETARY OF TRANSPORTATIONTHE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITYTHE DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE THE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF MANAGEMENT AND BUDGETTHE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR NATIONAL SECURITY AFFAIRSTHE ADMINISTRATOR OF THE NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATIONTHE DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY POLICYTHE ASSISTANT TO THE PRESIDENT FOR HOMELAND SECURITY AND COUNTERTERRORISMTHE CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFFSUBJECT: Reinvigorating America's Human Space Exploration ProgramSection 1. Amendment to Presidential Policy Directive-4.Presidential Policy Directive-4 of June 28, 2010 (National Space Policy), is amended as follows:The paragraph beginning "Set far-reaching exploration milestones" is deleted and replaced with the following:"Lead an innovative and sustainable program of exploration with commercial and international partners to enable human expansion across the solar system and to bring back to Earth new knowledge and opportunities. Beginning with missions beyond low-Earth orbit, the United States will lead the return of humans to the Moon for long-term exploration and utilization, followed by human missions to Mars and other destinations;".Sec. 2. General Provisions. (a) Nothing in this memorandum shall be construed to impair or otherwise affect:(i) the authority granted by law to an executive department or agency, or the head thereof; or(ii) the functions of the Director of the Office of Management and Budget relating to budgetary, administrative, or legislative proposals.(b) This memorandum shall be implemented consistent with applicable law and subject to the availability of appropriations.(c) This memorandum is not intended to, and does not, create any right or benefit, substantive or procedural, enforceable at law or in equity by any party against the United States, its departments, agencies, or entities, its officers, employees, or agents, or any other person.(d) This memorandum shall be published in the Federal Register. DONALD J. TRUMP
CSF Statement on President Trump signing of Space Policy Directive 1by Jane Kinney on DECEMBER 11, 2017“CSF applauds President Trump for signing Space Policy Directive 1, which directs NASA to partner with the U.S. commercial space industry to return Americans to the Moon,” said Eric Stallmer, President of CSF. “The U.S. commercial space industry has already invested hundreds of millions of dollars in private capital to develop innovative capabilities for lunar transport, operations, and resource utilization, leading to many lower cost innovative approaches that can benefit this new era of lunar exploration. CSF urges the Administration to direct NASA to leverage these capabilities to generate greater efficiency and quicker solutions, and to partner with industry through flexible, innovative contracting approaches, to accelerate progress towards achieving the goals set out in Space Policy Directive 1.”
Agreed about the debt, but this president is only interested in aggrandizing his term in office with his obsession with his own "Kennedy moment" and legacy building
(he already has begun a second term campaign).
He may concoct a deal with his Republican colleagues in congress to this end... We'll see...
Quote from: Rocket Science on 12/11/2017 03:41 pmAgreed about the debt, but this president is only interested in aggrandizing his term in office with his obsession with his own "Kennedy moment" and legacy building I think many different people have many different "Kennedy moments" in mind. Time will tell which one(s) Trump actually manages to re-live.Quote from: Rocket Science(he already has begun a second term campaign). He's already got the the slogan ready"Keeping America great" Quote from: Rocket ScienceHe may concoct a deal with his Republican colleagues in congress to this end... We'll see...Isn't that pretty much mandatory if he wants this to go anywhere?
Can you provide the exact quote about Lunar surface because I missed it.
QuoteThere is however national security implications for a presence on the moon. The reasoning starts with the realization that it is far easier to move from the Moon to any Earth orbit than it is to move material from Earth's surface. If a nation were able to establish a base on the moon that would be supplied by resources on the Moon (ISRU), then that nation would dominate space economically and militarily.Anything can be rationalized, but that doesn't mean that the rationalization is correct.The Arms Race resulted from the fear that one nation was going to have a superiority over another, and thus the one that felt like they were behind rationalized that they needed to build more arms - which included enough nuclear weapons to destroy civilization many times over.
A similar type of military buildup in space could happen, and that would, over time, limit the private sector's ability to expand out into space. In other words, in a slight amount of militarization in space could kill off the efforts of the private sector to find new business models based on activity in space. And no one would likely be immune.
QuoteOf course we know that there are many difficulties in establishing a base on the moon and doing ISRU on a significant scale, but I do not think there is anyone who believes it is beyond our technological capability.The amount we spend should be in proportion to how badly we need it, and establishing such a capability on our Moon is going to cost a MASSIVE amount of money if the SLS and Orion are used. And no, I don't see Congress deciding to use the private sector to help out - and least not on Trump's watch.
... “After 45 years, it is time to return humans to the region of the Moon even as we look toward Mars,” Dr. Dittmar said. “The Coalition is proud to support NASA and to help bring about this exciting future. We congratulate the Trump Administration on its bold vision and commitment to American leadership in space.” ...robotic landers, ...
Quote from: woods170 on 12/11/2017 12:06 pmThe guy you have to blame is named Nixon, not Obama. Nixon is the one that steered the USA away from the Moon, all the way back to LEO. And once the USA was stuck there, courtesy of the space shuttle and the space station sucking the NASA budget dry, there was no real chance of going back into deep space.LBJ, not Nixon, was President when Apollo/Saturn V and Apollo Applications were cut back. Future Saturn V production was cut in the months before Nixon was elected, leading to cancellation of Apollos 18-20, etc.. But honestly, it wouldn't have mattered who was elected in 1968. The American people didn't want to spend any more money on lunar landings. Today's generation will apparently have to rediscover the reason why ... - Ed Kyle
The guy you have to blame is named Nixon, not Obama. Nixon is the one that steered the USA away from the Moon, all the way back to LEO. And once the USA was stuck there, courtesy of the space shuttle and the space station sucking the NASA budget dry, there was no real chance of going back into deep space.
Quote from: Chris Bergin on 12/11/2017 09:59 pm... “After 45 years, it is time to return humans to the region of the Moon even as we look toward Mars,” Dr. Dittmar said. “The Coalition is proud to support NASA and to help bring about this exciting future. We congratulate the Trump Administration on its bold vision and commitment to American leadership in space.” ...robotic landers, ...Mary Lynn apparently doesn't think much of landing people on the Moon. Pretty striking departure from today's message. Wonder why?
Quote from: woods170 on 12/11/2017 12:06 pmQuote from: MATTBLAK on 12/11/2017 10:14 amConstellation or no Constellation: I believe it was very wrong to redirect America away from the Moon after Obama made his - essentially - 'been there; done that' statements. It's one of the few things I wont forgive him for. But since I'm not an American voter; I'm fully aware that my annoyance for that is impotent It is what it is. People like me are 'Space Cadets'. Even if intended to be pejorative - I'd still wear that label with pride...Wrong. The guy you have to blame is named Nixon, not Obama. Nixon is the one that steered the USA away from the Moon, all the way back to LEO. And once the USA was stuck there, courtesy of the space shuttle and the space station sucking the NASA budget dry, there was no real chance of going back into deep space.Most of us are well aware of the Nixon era history and it's context - but I was not speaking about that era - at all. The GW Bush and Obama years are whole different beast; and that is established fact. There were several options open to him; continue Apollo Lunar and possible expand it, go with the Shuttle and the Space Station and LEO, or go with the third option - Shuttle alone. And that's what we got. The GW Bush and Obama era was a chance to erase that mistake and the errors after Challenger & Columbia But some errors continued onwards, regardless. Constellation could ave been pragmatically altered - not bloody cancelled outright.
Quote from: MATTBLAK on 12/11/2017 10:14 amConstellation or no Constellation: I believe it was very wrong to redirect America away from the Moon after Obama made his - essentially - 'been there; done that' statements. It's one of the few things I wont forgive him for. But since I'm not an American voter; I'm fully aware that my annoyance for that is impotent It is what it is. People like me are 'Space Cadets'. Even if intended to be pejorative - I'd still wear that label with pride...Wrong. The guy you have to blame is named Nixon, not Obama. Nixon is the one that steered the USA away from the Moon, all the way back to LEO. And once the USA was stuck there, courtesy of the space shuttle and the space station sucking the NASA budget dry, there was no real chance of going back into deep space.
Constellation or no Constellation: I believe it was very wrong to redirect America away from the Moon after Obama made his - essentially - 'been there; done that' statements. It's one of the few things I wont forgive him for. But since I'm not an American voter; I'm fully aware that my annoyance for that is impotent It is what it is. People like me are 'Space Cadets'. Even if intended to be pejorative - I'd still wear that label with pride...
Quote from: MATTBLAK on 12/11/2017 12:48 pmQuote from: woods170 on 12/11/2017 12:06 pmQuote from: MATTBLAK on 12/11/2017 10:14 amConstellation or no Constellation: I believe it was very wrong to redirect America away from the Moon after Obama made his - essentially - 'been there; done that' statements. It's one of the few things I wont forgive him for. But since I'm not an American voter; I'm fully aware that my annoyance for that is impotent It is what it is. People like me are 'Space Cadets'. Even if intended to be pejorative - I'd still wear that label with pride...Wrong. The guy you have to blame is named Nixon, not Obama. Nixon is the one that steered the USA away from the Moon, all the way back to LEO. And once the USA was stuck there, courtesy of the space shuttle and the space station sucking the NASA budget dry, there was no real chance of going back into deep space.Most of us are well aware of the Nixon era history and it's context - but I was not speaking about that era - at all. The GW Bush and Obama years are whole different beast; and that is established fact. There were several options open to him; continue Apollo Lunar and possible expand it, go with the Shuttle and the Space Station and LEO, or go with the third option - Shuttle alone. And that's what we got. The GW Bush and Obama era was a chance to erase that mistake and the errors after Challenger & Columbia But some errors continued onwards, regardless. Constellation could ave been pragmatically altered - not bloody cancelled outright.You do realize that changing course is what Democrats and Republicans do when they take over from each other?- Bush sr.: Moon first, Mars later- Clinton: Forget the Moon. Mars eventually.- Bush jr.: Moon first, Mars later- Obama: Forget the Moon. Asteroids, and Mars eventually- Trump: Moon first, Mars laterIs see a pattern here.Once Trump is replaced by a Democrat president the focus will shift, once again. Simply because space policy is not set along "what is good for the country" but along "what is good for the party-in-charge".