Author Topic: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread  (Read 257329 times)

Offline RonM

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #140 on: 07/24/2017 06:14 pm »
If our biggest concern with regards to feasibility is that traffic on a road might move at 30mph for a half hour at 2am once a month and you might have to get a permit for it..... then I'd say that we're there :-D

Once a month is optimistic.

The rate of production for these 9m monsters (booster and upper stage) will be low.  They are intended to be reused, a lot.

The original STS fleet was only four shuttles. SpaceX won't need to make many of these vehicles to maintain a high flight rate.

Offline watermod

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #141 on: 07/24/2017 08:55 pm »
If they do build an new plant to make this rocket, it seems to me, that the south side of the Brownsville Ship Channel (2 or 3 miles north of the Boca Chica Launch Facility) would be ideal.    They could ship to FL or through the canal to Vandenburg or just drive 2 miles to launch.

Offline philw1776

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #142 on: 07/24/2017 09:27 pm »
SpaceX has been very successful with their culture of co-locating design engineering and manufacturing and having design engineers get out on the floor.  That's a big problem suddenly locating ITS manufacturing elsewhere especially in very different lifestyle locations like Brownsville & vicinity.  Another reason why Elon is seemingly interested in building ITSy in Hawthorne.
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Online rakaydos

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #143 on: 07/24/2017 10:06 pm »
SpaceX has been very successful with their culture of co-locating design engineering and manufacturing and having design engineers get out on the floor.  That's a big problem suddenly locating ITS manufacturing elsewhere especially in very different lifestyle locations like Brownsville & vicinity.  Another reason why Elon is seemingly interested in building ITSy in Hawthorne.
I read that Elon said "The factory we're using can handle up to 9m"

But is that Hawthorn... or whatever Composite assembily facility they used for the demo carbon fiber tanks?

Offline jpo234

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #144 on: 07/24/2017 10:40 pm »


I read that Elon said "The factory we're using can handle up to 9m"

But is that Hawthorn... or whatever Composite assembily facility they used for the demo carbon fiber tanks?

According to what we know, the tanks were made by Janicki Industries.
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Offline Rebel44

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #145 on: 07/24/2017 10:41 pm »
SpaceX has been very successful with their culture of co-locating design engineering and manufacturing and having design engineers get out on the floor.  That's a big problem suddenly locating ITS manufacturing elsewhere especially in very different lifestyle locations like Brownsville & vicinity.  Another reason why Elon is seemingly interested in building ITSy in Hawthorne.
I read that Elon said "The factory we're using can handle up to 9m"

But is that Hawthorn... or whatever Composite assembily facility they used for the demo carbon fiber tanks?
Pretty sure he meant Hawthorn

Offline QuantumG

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #146 on: 07/24/2017 10:44 pm »
Are we thinking Li-Al instead of carbon fibre for ITSy? If so, it's really like a big Falcon with Raptor engines, isn't it?

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Peter.Colin

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #147 on: 07/24/2017 10:51 pm »
Are we thinking Li-Al instead of carbon fibre for ITSy? If so, it's really like a big Falcon with Raptor engines, isn't it?

Wasn't the demo tank 12 meter diameter?
So saying the factory can only do 9 meter might imply Li-Al instead of carbon fibre.

Offline moreno7798

Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #148 on: 07/24/2017 10:57 pm »
Am I right in believing that the ship itself will be about 14m in diameter?
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Offline QuantumG

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #149 on: 07/24/2017 11:32 pm »
Am I right in believing that the ship itself will be about 14m in diameter?

Okay, I've seen enough of these questions to feel I need to express my completely unsubstantiated opinion: the spaceship isn't the priority right now. I think ITSy will be a fully reusable two stage launch vehicle for delivering satellites to orbit. i.e., to make money. With that money SpaceX can start work on the spaceship.

Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline moreno7798

Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #150 on: 07/24/2017 11:46 pm »
Am I right in believing that the ship itself will be about 14m in diameter?

Okay, I've seen enough of these questions to feel I need to express my completely unsubstantiated opinion: the spaceship isn't the priority right now. I think ITSy will be a fully reusable two stage launch vehicle for delivering satellites to orbit. i.e., to make money. With that money SpaceX can start work on the spaceship.

Just saying . . . if you're just scaling everything down, then it would be about (but perhaps not exactly) 14 meters including the landing gear and assuming they are NOT changing the design.
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Offline Lars-J

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #151 on: 07/24/2017 11:59 pm »
Am I right in believing that the ship itself will be about 14m in diameter?

Okay, I've seen enough of these questions to feel I need to express my completely unsubstantiated opinion: the spaceship isn't the priority right now. I think ITSy will be a fully reusable two stage launch vehicle for delivering satellites to orbit. i.e., to make money. With that money SpaceX can start work on the spaceship.

Just saying . . . if you're just scaling everything down, then it would be about (but perhaps not exactly) 14 meters including the landing gear and assuming they are NOT changing the design.

QuantumG and you both have good points, but I think my opinion is somewhat in the middle. I believe that ITSy's upper stage - if focused on cargo/payload delivery to LEO - will have a Shuttle-like cargo bay instead of a fairing. But otherwise I would expect not too many drastic departures in the design. A sideways re-entry, flip for vertical powered landing. Although initially less rugged, presumably. (smaller landing gear feet, for example)


« Last Edit: 07/25/2017 12:01 am by Lars-J »

Offline Oli

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #152 on: 07/25/2017 12:11 am »
Okay, I've seen enough of these questions to feel I need to express my completely unsubstantiated opinion: the spaceship isn't the priority right now. I think ITSy will be a fully reusable two stage launch vehicle for delivering satellites to orbit. i.e., to make money. With that money SpaceX can start work on the spaceship.

Building a 9m monster for delivering <1mt satellites to LEO is the most nonsensical thing I can imagine. If anything its about designing a mid-L/D entry vehicle that NASA can use as a Mars lander and would pay billions for if it goes ahead with its Mars plans.
« Last Edit: 07/25/2017 12:14 am by Oli »

Offline docmordrid

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #153 on: 07/25/2017 12:21 am »
Okay, I've seen enough of these questions to feel I need to express my completely unsubstantiated opinion: the spaceship isn't the priority right now. I think ITSy will be a fully reusable two stage launch vehicle for delivering satellites to orbit. i.e., to make money. With that money SpaceX can start work on the spaceship.

Building a 9m monster for delivering <1mt satellites to LEO is the most nonsensical thing I can imagine. If anything its about designing a mid-L/D entry vehicle that NASA can use as a Mars lander and would pay billions for if it goes ahead with its Mars plans.

Unless you want to launch an entire orbital plane at once, which for the 4,024 bird constellation is 50 or 75 satellites per plane.
« Last Edit: 07/25/2017 12:24 am by docmordrid »
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Offline Robotbeat

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #154 on: 07/25/2017 12:23 am »
Okay, I've seen enough of these questions to feel I need to express my completely unsubstantiated opinion: the spaceship isn't the priority right now. I think ITSy will be a fully reusable two stage launch vehicle for delivering satellites to orbit. i.e., to make money. With that money SpaceX can start work on the spaceship.

Building a 9m monster for delivering <1mt satellites to LEO is the most nonsensical thing I can imagine. If anything its about designing a mid-L/D entry vehicle that NASA can use as a Mars lander and would pay billions for if it goes ahead with its Mars plans.
Except NASA doesn't have any money for a lander. And SpaceX wants to launch about 3000 satellites a year, which (using your 1mT figure) is 3 times the entire annual global launch mass. And the satellites could grow much larger according to Mueller.

And anyway, the question isn't whether it's big but if the per launch cost is lower than Falcon.

And how many cubesats did that one Indian rocket launch at once? 100?
« Last Edit: 07/25/2017 12:24 am by Robotbeat »
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Offline spacenut

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #155 on: 07/25/2017 12:25 am »
A large launcher with 100 ton cargo capacity, can handle 100 1mt satellites.  Especially with the constellation they want to build which is about 4,000 satellites I think.  It can empty the cargo of satellites in LEO.  It can go to the moon and Mars with refueling.  It would put smaller launchers out of business except for individual larger satellites.  Even then, it could launch 10 ten ton satellites. 

Offline QuantumG

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #156 on: 07/25/2017 12:33 am »
Building a 9m monster for delivering <1mt satellites to LEO is the most nonsensical thing I can imagine.

You've heard of this Mr Musk, yes?
Human spaceflight is basically just LARPing now.

Offline Oli

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #157 on: 07/25/2017 12:50 am »
A large launcher with 100 ton cargo capacity, can handle 100 1mt satellites.  Especially with the constellation they want to build which is about 4,000 satellites I think.

Even if it's 20k satellites that's still only 40 launches per year. That's approx. the flight rate many consider to be the minimum for first stage reuse to make economic sense (in terms of pure $/kg). Second stage reuse would require a much larger flight rate to pay off. So no, it's simply faaaaar too big for that purpose alone.

Except NASA doesn't have any money for a lander.

I guess that depends on how cheap SpaceX can make it.
« Last Edit: 07/25/2017 12:51 am by Oli »

Offline Req

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #158 on: 07/25/2017 12:52 am »
Stop ignoring volume.  The above back and forth is not based in reality.

Offline livingjw

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Re: 9m ITS Development Updates and Discussion Thread
« Reply #159 on: 07/25/2017 01:04 am »
If ITSy is 9 m in diameter, the second stage will be 9 m in diameter if they stick to anything like ITS. A diameter implies a circle. You shouldn't count the fins in the diameter. This would be akin to saying the diameter of an aircraft is equal to the span of its wing.  Sorry, I just had to get that off my chest. :^)

John

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