Author Topic: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference  (Read 3428 times)

Offline Semmel

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Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« on: 05/09/2017 01:14 PM »
The Humans to Mars 2017 conference is currently happening.

https://livestream.com/viewnow/HumansToMars2017

The schedule is on the web page. Speakers include (currently speaking) the NASA acting administrator and many others.

The schedule is hidden behind a java script shenanigans. Here are the links:
May 09.: https://livestream.com/viewnow/HumansToMars2017/images/154931380
and https://livestream.com/viewnow/HumansToMars2017/images/154931330
May 10: https://livestream.com/viewnow/HumansToMars2017/images/154931305
May 11: https://livestream.com/viewnow/HumansToMars2017/images/154931264


PS: I think we need a section in the forum related to space conferences. I had a hard time finding a spot to put this.

Edit/Lar: We talked it through. For now "news" is the right place. Conferences are a kind of news... carry on.
« Last Edit: 05/13/2017 02:59 PM by Lar »

Offline AncientU

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #1 on: 05/11/2017 10:28 AM »
Watched as much as time would allow.  Conference was/is nearly 100% based on the premise that SLS/Orion exist (and pretty much everyone else doesn't), except for Buzz's weird ramblings.
Once you've assumed a false premise, anything and everything is possible as a conclusion.

The conference is a paid political announcement by its Platinum (Boeing), Gold (LM), some other metal (Orbital ATK), etc. sponsors.

The right hand column of each page of this forum is where this belongs.
« Last Edit: 05/11/2017 10:29 AM by AncientU »
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline Semmel

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #2 on: 05/11/2017 10:35 AM »
Watched as much as time would allow.  Conference was/is nearly 100% based on the premise that SLS/Orion exist (and pretty much everyone else doesn't), except for Buzz's weird ramblings.
Once you've assumed a false premise, anything and everything is possible as a conclusion.

The conference is a paid political announcement by its Platinum (Boeing), Gold (LM), some other metal (Orbital ATK), etc. sponsors.

The right hand column of each page of this forum is where this belongs.

Yeah, I didn't realize it at first, but now I understand better why this conference is not so popular here or by any other company but the ones you named. The appearance of the NASA acting director caught my eye, which is why I reported it here. I wouldn't word it as strongly as you, but I have the same general impression of the conference.

@edit:
To add to that.. I do believe that if SpaceX fails to get people to Mars (for any reason), SLS and the gateway to Mars project is our only approach to reach it for the foreseeable future. So yes, you can loose all kinds of bad characterizations and attributes about SLS and gateway to Mars, but if it gets us there, it gets us there.
« Last Edit: 05/11/2017 10:38 AM by Semmel »

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #3 on: 05/12/2017 01:51 AM »
Watched as much as time would allow.  Conference was/is nearly 100% based on the premise that SLS/Orion exist (and pretty much everyone else doesn't), except for Buzz's weird ramblings.
Once you've assumed a false premise, anything and everything is possible as a conclusion.

The conference is a paid political announcement by its Platinum (Boeing), Gold (LM), some other metal (Orbital ATK), etc. sponsors.

The right hand column of each page of this forum is where this belongs.

How is this a false premise?  It's a reasonable one.  Orion exists, SLS is well on the way, further than any alternative.  Now it's unlikely that none of the alternatives will get up.  But not impossible.
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline su27k

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #4 on: 05/12/2017 03:14 AM »
@edit:
To add to that.. I do believe that if SpaceX fails to get people to Mars (for any reason), SLS and the gateway to Mars project is our only approach to reach it for the foreseeable future. So yes, you can loose all kinds of bad characterizations and attributes about SLS and gateway to Mars, but if it gets us there, it gets us there.

I'm not following this conclusion, you can use FH/NG/Vulcan to assemble a Mars campaign, you have to assume every commercial heavy lift fails in order to make SLS the only option.

Offline Semmel

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #5 on: 05/12/2017 09:49 AM »
I'm not following this conclusion, you can use FH/NG/Vulcan to assemble a Mars campaign, you have to assume every commercial heavy lift fails in order to make SLS the only option.

[rant]

I wasn't talking about technical feasibility. I was talking about political will to do this. And there is zero political will to do a mars mission that is not based on SLS. I (as many others) work on the premise that SLS and all its missions are basically job programs from the point of view of Congress. Congress is not (or only in homeopathic quantities) interested in the outcome of the SLS/Mars program. Any cost reduction to SLS or Orion or gateway to Mars will be perceived as a loss in terms of jobs and funding for the districts where the cost reduction materializes. As a consequence, the only direction this program is going to go is: increase in cost. Therefore, it will either be canceled outright or funded until it gets us to Mars in ~2050. I it is canceled, I see no chance of any alternative getting the political support to reach Mars.

Quite frankly, its a horrible program from the engineering point of view. I would love it to be replaced by something more sensible. However, if it gets us to Mars and costs us a fortune in the meantime, I will take it due to the lack of alternatives.

[/rant]

Offline AncientU

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #6 on: 05/12/2017 11:13 PM »
I was at the H2M conference. There was a SpaceX person on one of the panels. Keep in mind that there are only two people at SpaceX who are allowed to make news: Musk and Shotwell. Anybody else who appears at a conference can only repeat what they have already said. So they don't really contribute anything to panel discussions or presentations.

The conference had a mix of quite good presentations and panels and some less than good ones. Parts of it are really slick and parts are really amateurish (for instance, they didn't have a name badge for me even though I registered about 10 days earlier, and they also didn't have name badges for some other people who were actually speakers).

I wrote about the conference last year:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2997/1

I'll have something about it again soon.

Good article. 
Last year's conference and this year's quite similar, including the never-changing Buzz.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
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Offline Blackstar

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Offline Blackstar

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #8 on: 05/13/2017 01:10 AM »

Offline su27k

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #9 on: 05/13/2017 04:44 AM »
I'm not following this conclusion, you can use FH/NG/Vulcan to assemble a Mars campaign, you have to assume every commercial heavy lift fails in order to make SLS the only option.

[rant]

I wasn't talking about technical feasibility. I was talking about political will to do this. And there is zero political will to do a mars mission that is not based on SLS. I (as many others) work on the premise that SLS and all its missions are basically job programs from the point of view of Congress. Congress is not (or only in homeopathic quantities) interested in the outcome of the SLS/Mars program. Any cost reduction to SLS or Orion or gateway to Mars will be perceived as a loss in terms of jobs and funding for the districts where the cost reduction materializes. As a consequence, the only direction this program is going to go is: increase in cost. Therefore, it will either be canceled outright or funded until it gets us to Mars in ~2050. I it is canceled, I see no chance of any alternative getting the political support to reach Mars.

Quite frankly, its a horrible program from the engineering point of view. I would love it to be replaced by something more sensible. However, if it gets us to Mars and costs us a fortune in the meantime, I will take it due to the lack of alternatives.

[/rant]

I understand your frustration, but I think it's important to stand the ground in terms of technical (and financial) feasibility, and avoid compromises for political expediency. I'm optimistic that the political wind will change, we just need to be patient, it's unfortunate that space projects usually take a long time, so the politics behind them take even longer, but things do change, politicians cannot escape reality indefinitely. For example about 10 years ago there's this big debate about using EELV to launch astronauts, one faction insists EELV will be death traps using arguments that are exposed to be lies, but nobody can do anything about it back then. Fast forward to today the first Atlas V that will take astronauts to ISS is being built, while the liars didn't get what they deserve, the record is set straight and technical feasibility win in the end.

So while SLS/Orion is impossible to cancel right now, I think it's important to disperse the illusion that they're somehow the "center piece" of US human spaceflight program. Recently NASA is fond of saying "and, not or", well last time I checked the two operands of an "and" operator are on equal footing, one is not more center than the other.

Offline Lar

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #10 on: 05/13/2017 06:01 AM »
And the perpetual argument begins again...

This thread has been pretty good at not rehashing the same arguments. Let's keep it that way. Or better, be REALLY good at not rehashing.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #11 on: 05/13/2017 08:00 PM »
One thing that struck me: very little discussion of settlement. Lots of discussion of planetary protection.

These two purposes are at odds. An overly strict adherence to planetary protection makes settlement impossible. You'd save money by never ever landing.

The whole point of the human space program is to "contaminate" other planets with life. Otherwise, just send machines.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Online savuporo

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #12 on: 05/13/2017 10:50 PM »
After listening to parts of this, i think I'll organize a Humans to Enceladus conference, sponsored by Pepsi, Wendy's and Nike. It'll be a hoot, and about as grounded in reality.
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #13 on: 05/14/2017 01:21 AM »
One thing that struck me: very little discussion of settlement. Lots of discussion of planetary protection.

These two purposes are at odds. An overly strict adherence to planetary protection makes settlement impossible. You'd save money by never ever landing.

The whole point of the human space program is to "contaminate" other planets with life. Otherwise, just send machines.

I think you don't really understand the issues surrounding planetary protection.
Enlighten me.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline redliox

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #14 on: 05/14/2017 02:13 PM »
I think you don't really understand the issues surrounding planetary protection.
Enlighten me.

Let's start by turning it around: you made the assertion, so support it. Exactly which space settlement projects have been thwarted by planetary protection concerns?

Nice one 'Star, right for the jugular  ;)

My opinion on the matter is, regarding Mars, that we're talking about an entire planet.  On top of that, it is a planet predominantly hostile to terrestrial life.  If humans are kept focused on 2 or 3 sites Mars will remain a sterile place.  I slightly tilt my head in Robotbeat's direction, but mainly because humans are better scientists than robots.

An example of how to achieve the best of both worlds: humans Valles Marineris, robots the ice caps, to retrieve samples.
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Offline zubenelgenubi

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Re: Humans to Mars 2017 Conference
« Reply #15 on: 05/16/2017 06:12 PM »
Author Dwayne Day wrote this article for The Space Review after this year's Humans to Mars conference:
Buzz Aldrin will not stop talking.

Channeling Mike Myers as Linda Richman in the Saturday Night Live sketch Coffee Talk: "Discuss amongst yourselves!  I'm a little verklempt right now."
 :)
« Last Edit: 05/16/2017 06:23 PM by zubenelgenubi »
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