Author Topic: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION  (Read 17173 times)

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CRS-13 Discussion thread

NSF Threads for CRS-13 : Discussion

NSF Articles for CRS-13:

NSF Articles for CRS missions :  https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/?s=CRS


Launch early December, 2017 on Falcon 9 from probably SLC-40.



External cargo: Space Debris Sensor, MISSE-FF, TSIS



Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
   SpaceX News Articles (Recent)  /   SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews)
   SpaceX Dragon Articles  /  SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions)
   L2 SpaceX Section
« Last Edit: Today at 07:46 PM by input~2 »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #1 on: 04/20/2017 01:24 PM »
Created the thread to have sonewhere to post this!

Quote
NASA's JC Liou of Orbital Debris Office: We expect our Space Debris Sensor to fly to ISS on Nov 1 @SpaceX's Falcon 9/Dragon.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/855045463711641601

Edit: so I can't count! CRS-12 is NET August, CRS-13 Nov.
« Last Edit: 04/20/2017 01:28 PM by FutureSpaceTourist »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #2 on: 05/03/2017 04:27 PM »
Space Debris Sensor Waiting For Launch
The Space Debris Sensor (SDS) has completed functional testing and been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center for final integration checkout with the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will go into storage until a SpaceX launch vehicle is ready to deliver it to the ISS.  Launch is currently scheduled for late 2017.

The SDS is a flight demonstration of an impact sensor designed to detect and characterize impacts by small debris objects. The sensor will be attached to the ESA Columbus module facing the ISS velocity vector with one square meter of detection area. The sensor combines multiple technologies to measure the time, speed, direction, size, and density of objects greater than 50 µm in size. With this information, as well as the orbital position of each detection, the sensor should collect enough data over its intended minimum 2-year mission to update the NASA Orbital Debris Engineering Model for objects smaller than 1 mm near ISS altitudes. With lessons learned from the SDS experience, a follow-on mission to place a second-generation sensor at higher altitudes will someday provide the ability to update the risk from small debris to many operational spacecraft in low Earth orbit.
« Last Edit: 05/10/2017 02:54 PM by gongora »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #3 on: 07/19/2017 04:09 PM »
Tweet from Jeff Foust:
Quote
[Andrew Rush, Made In Space]: have built and qualified a pilot mfg facility for high-quality ZBLAN optical fibers. Scheduled to fly to ISS on SpX-13. #ISSRDC

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #4 on: 07/21/2017 12:45 AM »
Space Debris Sensor Waiting For Launch
The Space Debris Sensor (SDS) has completed functional testing and been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center for final integration checkout with the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will go into storage until a SpaceX launch vehicle is ready to deliver it to the ISS.  Launch is currently scheduled for late 2017.

The SDS is a flight demonstration of an impact sensor designed to detect and characterize impacts by small debris objects. The sensor will be attached to the ESA Columbus module facing the ISS velocity vector with one square meter of detection area. The sensor combines multiple technologies to measure the time, speed, direction, size, and density of objects greater than 50 µm in size. With this information, as well as the orbital position of each detection, the sensor should collect enough data over its intended minimum 2-year mission to update the NASA Orbital Debris Engineering Model for objects smaller than 1 mm near ISS altitudes. With lessons learned from the SDS experience, a follow-on mission to place a second-generation sensor at higher altitudes will someday provide the ability to update the risk from small debris to many operational spacecraft in low Earth orbit.
additional SDS reference from May: https://orbitaldebris.jsc.nasa.gov/quarterly-news/pdfs/odqnv21i2.pdf

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #5 on: 07/29/2017 02:40 PM »
Olaf found a reference saying ASIM is now planned to launch in 2018, so it appears the external payloads for CRS-13 will be SDS, MISSE-FF and TSIS.
« Last Edit: 07/29/2017 02:42 PM by gongora »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #6 on: 07/29/2017 02:50 PM »
Sorry, I´ve modified my post.
TSIS will be launched NET 2018.
https://www.wmo-sat.info/oscar/satellites/view/529

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #7 on: 07/29/2017 07:23 PM »
Sorry, I´ve modified my post.
TSIS will be launched NET 2018.
https://www.wmo-sat.info/oscar/satellites/view/529

Hmmm, the project page at LASP still shows November.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #8 on: 07/29/2017 07:48 PM »
Tweet from LASP TSIS (@Go_TSIS) on July 23:
Quote
All packed up and ready to go. Here we come, Florida!

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #9 on: 07/29/2017 08:10 PM »
Total and Spectral Solar Irradiance Sensor (TSIS-1)

Project page at University of Colorado Boulder - Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics (LASP)

TSIS-1 was originally intended for the NPOESS satellite program, with a $42 million contract given in 2009.  Next it was targeted for the Polar Free Flyer satellite program, and finally ended up as an instrument to be mounted on the ISS.

TSIS-1 has two instruments: the Total Irradiance Monitor (TIM) measures the total solar irradiance (TSI) that is incident at the outer boundaries of the atmosphere; and the Spectral Irradiance Monitor (SIM) measures solar spectral irradiance (SSI) from 200 nm to 2400 nm (96 percent of the TSI).  TSIS-1 also has a precision pointing mechanism to aim the instruments.

Images from TSIS project page at CU Boulder - LASP
1. A close-up view of TSIS-1 as deployed on the International Space Station ExPRESS logistics carrier (ELC)-3. The TSIS-1 Thermal Pointing System (TPS) is deployed above the ELC after installation in order to provide sufficient clearance to track the sun each orbit with a two-axis gimbal. (Courtesy NASA/LASP)
2. TIM measures the total light coming from the sun at all wavelengths. (Courtesy LASP)
3. SIM will measure how the light from the sun is distributed by wavelength. (Courtesy LASP)

Also attached: Pdf presentation from Nov. 2015 giving an overview of TSIS-1.

[NASA Jul 20, 2017] NASA Looks to Solar Eclipse to Help Understand Earth’s Energy System
Quote
This fall, NASA will continue to monitor the sun-Earth relationship by launching the Total and Spectral Solar Irradiance Sensor-1, or TSIS-1, to the International Space Station
« Last Edit: 07/31/2017 01:08 AM by gongora »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #10 on: 07/29/2017 08:10 PM »
MISSE-FF : Materials International Space Station Experiment - Flight Facility

MISSE-FF will be mounted on the exterior of the ISS where it will hold materials samples to test their performance in space.  It will allow individual sample carriers to be robotically swapped out.  MISSE-FF is a commercial facility owned by Alpha Space that will host both goverment and private industry experiments.

There was a recent FISO Teleconference on MISSE-FF on April 5, 2017.  PDF and MP3 files are attached.
« Last Edit: 07/31/2017 01:20 AM by gongora »

Offline Olaf

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #11 on: 07/30/2017 09:23 AM »
What is the average timeframe from arriving at the Cape until launch?
Or another question. Are three months enough from arrival to launch?
« Last Edit: 07/30/2017 01:06 PM by Olaf »

Offline DOCinCT

What is the average timeframe from arriving at the Cape until launch?
Or another question. Are three months enough from arrival to launch?
Based on pages 50 and 53 of the Falcon Users Guide Ver 2 ,
Launch campaign kickoff -
Verifies that all people, parts and paper are ready for the shipment of the payload to the launch site and are ready to begin launch site activities. This is 3 months until launch. 
Delivery of the spacecraft is generally 30 days in advance of launch. 

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #13 on: 07/30/2017 04:31 PM »
What is the average timeframe from arriving at the Cape until launch?
Or another question. Are three months enough from arrival to launch?
Based on pages 50 and 53 of the Falcon Users Guide Ver 2 ,
Launch campaign kickoff -
Verifies that all people, parts and paper are ready for the shipment of the payload to the launch site and are ready to begin launch site activities. This is 3 months until launch. 
Delivery of the spacecraft is generally 30 days in advance of launch.

The Falcon Users Guide is irrelevant for this.  It's a NASA science payload on a Dragon flight.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #14 on: 07/31/2017 05:45 AM »
Space Debris Sensor Waiting For Launch
The Space Debris Sensor (SDS) has completed functional testing and been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center for final integration checkout with the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will go into storage until a SpaceX launch vehicle is ready to deliver it to the ISS.  Launch is currently scheduled for late 2017.

The SDS is a flight demonstration of an impact sensor designed to detect and characterize impacts by small debris objects. The sensor will be attached to the ESA Columbus module facing the ISS velocity vector with one square meter of detection area.(snip)

Why would this be facing the velocity vector?
At first blush that would seem to be the direction of least debris flux.

Stuff at 400 km but going slower than the ISS would have a lower perigee.  That would take it into the denser atmosphere, where it's orbital lifetime would be less.  AIUI, that's why the ISS is flown at the altitude it does, so that the residual exosphere scrubs small debris from orbit.

Now a rearward facing surface would be exposed to debris with perigees at or below the ISS altitude but with higher apogees.  These would have higher velocity than the ISS and "catch up to it."

However, if one assumes that orbits circularize with greatest drag at perigee, small debris, with corresponding lower coefficients of drag, would act as if constantly being accelerated in the -V direction.  That would have them impinge from the front.

Does that mean that SDS expects minute debris to be in circularized orbits rather than elliptical?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #15 on: 07/31/2017 06:07 AM »
Space Debris Sensor Waiting For Launch
The Space Debris Sensor (SDS) has completed functional testing and been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center for final integration checkout with the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will go into storage until a SpaceX launch vehicle is ready to deliver it to the ISS.  Launch is currently scheduled for late 2017.

The SDS is a flight demonstration of an impact sensor designed to detect and characterize impacts by small debris objects. The sensor will be attached to the ESA Columbus module facing the ISS velocity vector with one square meter of detection area.(snip)

Why would this be facing the velocity vector?
At first blush that would seem to be the direction of least debris flux.

Stuff at 400 km but going slower than the ISS would have a lower perigee.  That would take it into the denser atmosphere, where it's orbital lifetime would be less.  AIUI, that's why the ISS is flown at the altitude it does, so that the residual exosphere scrubs small debris from orbit.

Now a rearward facing surface would be exposed to debris with perigees at or below the ISS altitude but with higher apogees.  These would have higher velocity than the ISS and "catch up to it."

However, if one assumes that orbits circularize with greatest drag at perigee, small debris, with corresponding lower coefficients of drag, would act as if constantly being accelerated in the -V direction.  That would have them impinge from the front.

Does that mean that SDS expects minute debris to be in circularized orbits rather than elliptical?
I was thinking the idea was sort of like bugs and windshields. Your front windshield gets covered in them. The rear glass not so much. If you wanted to place a sensor to detect characteristics of bug-windshield impacts you'd want it on the front of the vehicle. That idea might not translate to orbit, but that's what I thought of as I read it.

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #16 on: 07/31/2017 10:25 AM »
Space Debris Sensor Waiting For Launch
The Space Debris Sensor (SDS) has completed functional testing and been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center for final integration checkout with the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will go into storage until a SpaceX launch vehicle is ready to deliver it to the ISS.  Launch is currently scheduled for late 2017.

The SDS is a flight demonstration of an impact sensor designed to detect and characterize impacts by small debris objects. The sensor will be attached to the ESA Columbus module facing the ISS velocity vector with one square meter of detection area.(snip)

Why would this be facing the velocity vector?
At first blush that would seem to be the direction of least debris flux.

Stuff at 400 km but going slower than the ISS would have a lower perigee.  That would take it into the denser atmosphere, where it's orbital lifetime would be less.  AIUI, that's why the ISS is flown at the altitude it does, so that the residual exosphere scrubs small debris from orbit.

Now a rearward facing surface would be exposed to debris with perigees at or below the ISS altitude but with higher apogees.  These would have higher velocity than the ISS and "catch up to it."

However, if one assumes that orbits circularize with greatest drag at perigee, small debris, with corresponding lower coefficients of drag, would act as if constantly being accelerated in the -V direction.  That would have them impinge from the front.

Does that mean that SDS expects minute debris to be in circularized orbits rather than elliptical?

I would think crossing orbits (polar, for instance) would be greatest debris impact risk (and the highest relative velocity).
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Offline Olaf

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #17 on: 07/31/2017 12:28 PM »
https://twitter.com/SpcPlcyOnline/status/889859004876419073

This chart by Mr. Zurbuchen also says 2018 for TSIS-1.
« Last Edit: 07/31/2017 12:36 PM by Olaf »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #18 on: 07/31/2017 02:15 PM »
So we have multiple recent references for TSIS-1 launching in both 2017 and 2018.  One issue to consider is November 2017 is in Fiscal Year 2018, so you have to keep that in mind when interpreting some of the charts.  Hopefully we'll find more definitive information about the schedule soon.
« Last Edit: 07/31/2017 02:23 PM by gongora »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #19 on: 07/31/2017 03:02 PM »
Space Debris Sensor Waiting For Launch
The Space Debris Sensor (SDS) has completed functional testing and been delivered to the Kennedy Space Center for final integration checkout with the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will go into storage until a SpaceX launch vehicle is ready to deliver it to the ISS.  Launch is currently scheduled for late 2017.

The SDS is a flight demonstration of an impact sensor designed to detect and characterize impacts by small debris objects. The sensor will be attached to the ESA Columbus module facing the ISS velocity vector with one square meter of detection area.(snip)

Why would this be facing the velocity vector?
At first blush that would seem to be the direction of least debris flux.

Stuff at 400 km but going slower than the ISS would have a lower perigee.  That would take it into the denser atmosphere, where it's orbital lifetime would be less.  AIUI, that's why the ISS is flown at the altitude it does, so that the residual exosphere scrubs small debris from orbit.

Now a rearward facing surface would be exposed to debris with perigees at or below the ISS altitude but with higher apogees.  These would have higher velocity than the ISS and "catch up to it."

However, if one assumes that orbits circularize with greatest drag at perigee, small debris, with corresponding lower coefficients of drag, would act as if constantly being accelerated in the -V direction.  That would have them impinge from the front.

Does that mean that SDS expects minute debris to be in circularized orbits rather than elliptical?

I would think crossing orbits (polar, for instance) would be greatest debris impact risk (and the highest relative velocity).

Yes. An object in an intersecting polar orbit would approach at a quartering angle from the front, at over 10 km/s relative velocity. An object in a overtaking orbit (like a GTO at perigee) could approach from behind, but would have no more than ~3 km/s relative velocity.

Offline Comga

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #20 on: 08/01/2017 03:42 AM »
Why would this [SDS/Dragons] be facing the velocity vector?
At first blush that would seem to be the direction of least debris flux.

(snip)

I would think crossing orbits (polar, for instance) would be greatest debris impact risk (and the highest relative velocity).

Good point on the risk and velocity, but wouldn't those impact on the sides? 
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline AncientU

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #21 on: 08/01/2017 10:39 AM »
Why would this [SDS/Dragons] be facing the velocity vector?
At first blush that would seem to be the direction of least debris flux.

(snip)

I would think crossing orbits (polar, for instance) would be greatest debris impact risk (and the highest relative velocity).

Good point on the risk and velocity, but wouldn't those impact on the sides?

Forward quarters, since sum of velocity vectors involved.  Descending polar plus ascending ISS would put peak velocity particles on leading face.
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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #22 on: 08/04/2017 08:15 PM »
[LASP : August 4, 2017] TSIS shipped to Kennedy Space Center for upcoming launch
Quote
A solar instrument package designed and built by LASP, considered a key tool to help monitor the planet’s climate, has arrived at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida for a targeted November launch.

The instrument suite is called the Total and Spectral solar Irradiance Sensor (TSIS-1) and was built for NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. The contract value to LASP is $90 million and includes the dual instrument suite and an associated ground system to manage TSIS mission operations.

photo credit: TSIS-1 is shown here inside a clean room at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. (Courtesy LASP/Tom Sparn)

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #23 on: 08/04/2017 08:54 PM »
Leadup to the previous post

lasp.colorado.edu/home/blog/2017/08/04/tsis-shipped-to-kennedy-space-center-for-upcoming-launch/

TSIS shipped to Kennedy Space Center for upcoming launch

Posted August 4th, 2017

TSIS-1 is shown here inside a clean room at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida. (Courtesy LASP/Tom Sparn)

A solar instrument package designed and built by LASP, considered a key tool to help monitor the planet’s climate, has arrived at NASA’s Kennedy Space Center in Florida for a targeted November launch.

The instrument suite is called the Total and Spectral solar Irradiance Sensor (TSIS-1) and was built for NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland. The contract value to LASP is $90 million and includes the dual instrument suite and an associated ground system to manage TSIS mission operations.

TSIS-1 will launch on a commercial SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket in a Dragon capsule for delivery to the International Space Station (ISS). From there it will monitor the total amount of sunlight hitting Earth, as well as how the light is distributed among the ultraviolet, visible, and infrared wavelengths.

“We need to measure both because both affect Earth’s climate,” said Dong Wu, the TSIS-1 project scientist at NASA Goddard.

LASP Atmospheric Scientist Peter Pilewskie, lead mission scientist on the project, said TSIS will continue a 39-year record of measuring total solar radiation, the longest continuous climate record from space.

“These measurements are vital for understanding the climate system because the sun is the source of virtually all of Earth’s energy,” said Pilewskie, also a CU Boulder faculty member in the Department of Atmospheric and Oceanic Sciences. “How the atmosphere responds to subtle changes in the sun’s output helps us distinguish between natural and human influences on climate.”

Overall satellite measurements of the sun from space have shown that changes in its radiation over time—during periods of both high and low solar activity—is only about 0.1 percent. While scientists believe changes in solar output cannot explain Earth’s recent warming, a longer dataset could reveal greater swings in solar radiation.

TSIS-1 is comprised of the Total Irradiance Monitor, or TIM, which measures the total solar irradiance that is incident at the outer boundaries of the atmosphere; and the Spectral Irradiance Monitor, or SIM, which measures solar spectral irradiance (SSI) from 200 nm to 2400 nm (96 percent of the TSI). (Courtesy LASP)

TSIS consists of two instruments, including the Total Irradiance Monitor (TIM), which measures the total light coming from the sun at all wavelengths, said Pilewskie. The second LASP instrument, the Spectral Irradiance Monitor (SIM), will measure how the light from the sun is distributed by wavelength and absorbed by different parts of the planet’s atmosphere and surface.

One reason the SIM instrument is important is because measurements of the sun’s UV radiation are critical to understanding the condition of Earth’s protective ozone layer.

The TSIS instrument suite will be operated remotely from the LASP Space Technology Building in the CU Research Park.

The project involved about 30 scientists and engineers at LASP during its peak, as well as 10 additional support personnel from Colorado and about 10 more from outside of Colorado, said TSIS-1 Project Manager Brian Boyle of LASP. The mission, slated to run at least five years, also has involved about 15 to 20 CU-Boulder undergraduate and graduate students to date.

LASP has made solar radiation measurements from orbit on seven missions since 1975, including the $100 million SORCE satellite designed, built, and controlled from campus.
Best quote heard during an inspection, "I was unaware that I was the only one who was aware."

Offline Ragmar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #24 on: 08/08/2017 06:36 PM »
With OA-8 reportedly looking to go up in October or November, will this push CRS-12 back?  Or would both missions go up in the same month?

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #25 on: 08/08/2017 07:02 PM »
With OA-8 reportedly looking to go up in October or November, will this push CRS-12 back?  Or would both missions go up in the same month?

Cygnus and Dragon have launched a couple weeks apart before, it's not a big deal.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #26 on: 08/11/2017 06:40 PM »
http://spacenews.com/teledyne-brown-offers-iss-platform-for-testing-spacecraft-parts-in-orbit-before-flying-them-for-real/
Quote
Teledyne Brown Engineering plans to install a hyperspectral imager built by the German Aerospace Center, DLR, in the firm’s International Space Station observatory in March.
DLR’s Earth Sensing Imaging Spectrometer will be the first payload tested on the Multi-User System for Earth Sensing (MUSES), Teledyne Brown’s external Earth-facing platform that traveled to the space station in June inside a SpaceX Dragon cargo capsule.

This presentation from February says that
Quote
[MUSES] Instruments launched in “soft stowage”
Quote
DESIS
•Critical Design Review completed June 2016
•Planned launch on SpaceX-13, Q4, 2017
•DESIS commissioning during Q1/Q2,2018

Does anyone know if that is still the plan?
« Last Edit: 08/11/2017 06:40 PM by gongora »

Offline Ragmar

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #27 on: 08/12/2017 05:58 PM »
However, as this is an extended duration Cygnus mission, will NASA delay this 1) so will they have the requirement for two missions at the same time, and 2) berthing port capacity?

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #28 on: 08/13/2017 06:24 PM »
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43347.msg1712257#msg1712257
Quote
Soyuz 50S return on 9/02
Soyuz 52S launch on 9/13
Progress in Oct.
Cygnus from Virginia in November.
Triple EVA in early-October thru November to change out LEE on the SSRMS.
No mention of Dragon in November, I would suggest NET December or 2018.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : NET 1 Nov 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #29 on: 08/13/2017 06:45 PM »
around early December (from CRS-12 pre-launch press conference)
« Last Edit: 08/13/2017 06:59 PM by gongora »

Online gongora

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[SpaceNews] 3-D printing and in-orbit manufacturing promise to transform space missions
Quote
Q: What is the latest on your [Made In Space] optical fiber campaign?

A: It’s going really well. The flight unit is built and we are scheduled to fly on a [SpaceX] Dragon this year. We have produced fiber in our facility on the ground and are looking forward to flying that. We will be flying the payload multiple times on multiple flights because the focus is on making the minimum viable product that is scalable.

This is a fully robotic capability. The astronauts just plug it in. We send the signal for it to go. It pulls the fiber and monitors diameter. When it’s done, it can switch over to another free form, that’s the starting material we use, and produce more fiber without any special environment on the ISS, without significant crew involvement other than installation. ...

The article also mentions a failed protest Made In Space filed against a NASA SBIRS award to another company working on manufacturing fiber in space.  The decision said Made In Space didn't have standing to protest the award.  The GAO decision can be found here:
https://www.gao.gov/products/B-414490#mt=e-report

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I guess this would be on CRS-13?

Quote
The Engine announces investments in first group of startups

Analytical Space, founded by Harvard Business School graduates, aims to make downloading satellite data much faster. Every few hours, terabytes of data are collected by orbiting satellites, but downloading that data is becoming very costly and complex. The startup is building small satellite relays that use laser communication to enable continuous high-speed wireless connectivity between space and ground. The startup is now preparing to launch its first pilot on a SpaceX craft from the International Space Station later this year.

Online gongora

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People can have varying definitions of "working hard"...

Quote
Tweet from LASP TSIS
The TSIS engineers are working hard today as we continue software testing with the ISS simulator.

Online envy887

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People can have varying definitions of "working hard"...

Quote
Tweet from LASP TSIS
The TSIS engineers are working hard today as we continue software testing with the ISS simulator.

I think the guy in the lower left is checking NSF on his phone :D

Offline Kansan52

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I wondered what was so interesting on that phone!

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I wondered what was so interesting on that phone!
He's watching himself on the internet link to the camera feed. :)
Support your local planetarium!

Offline crandles57

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November 28th per https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ Sept 30 change.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1440 says SLC-40 dating back to a change on 9th August but I cannot see source for that. sfn and launchphotography are not yet showing pad.

Is SLC-40 confirmed somewhere?


Online gongora

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November 28th per https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ Sept 30 change.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1440 says SLC-40 dating back to a change on 9th August but I cannot see source for that. sfn and launchphotography are not yet showing pad.

Is SLC-40 confirmed somewhere?

The pad is not confirmed, that is what we expected a couple months ago when the top post was last updated.  I will modify it.
« Last Edit: 10/11/2017 01:44 PM by gongora »

Offline crandles57

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : November 28, 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #38 on: 10/11/2017 01:49 PM »
Thanks for fast reply. Now I find

Quote
SLC-40 is not expected to be ready to support a launch until at least the end of November.
https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/10/falcon-9-second-launch-week-ses-11/
« Last Edit: 10/11/2017 01:51 PM by crandles57 »

Offline Raul

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November 28th per https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ Sept 30 change.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1440 says SLC-40 dating back to a change on 9th August but I cannot see source for that. sfn and launchphotography are not yet showing pad.

Is SLC-40 confirmed somewhere?

Yes. According official FCC application issued last week (3th Oct) SpaceX plans launch CRS-13 mission from Complex 40.

Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : November 28, 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #40 on: 10/11/2017 08:15 PM »
November 28th per https://spaceflightnow.com/launch-schedule/ Sept 30 change.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1440 says SLC-40 dating back to a change on 9th August but I cannot see source for that. sfn and launchphotography are not yet showing pad.

Is SLC-40 confirmed somewhere?

Yes. According official FCC application issued last week (3th Oct) SpaceX plans launch CRS-13 mission from Complex 40.

Then we should be seeing some roll out and testing in the next 2-4 weeks.
Excited to be finally into the first Falcon Heavy flow, we are getting so close!

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : November 28, 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #41 on: 10/16/2017 11:54 AM »
As reported here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43976.msg1738038#msg1738038

Quote
SpaceX pitched the idea of a flown booster for CRS-13 to NASA and they will give them an answer in early November.

Source is a credible Reddit user.

A reused Dragon and a reused booster... I would love to see that :)
Waiting for joy and raptor

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : November 28, 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #42 on: 10/16/2017 02:13 PM »
As reported here: http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=43976.msg1738038#msg1738038

Quote
SpaceX pitched the idea of a flown booster for CRS-13 to NASA and they will give them an answer in early November.

Source is a credible Reddit user.

A reused Dragon and a reused booster... I would love to see that :)

What exactly would NASA's motivation be to go with a used booster? It sounds like SpaceX is phasing out the discount, which was already so low that NASA probably wouldn't be very interested. Other customers would be interested in the schedule availability of a used booster, but to my understanding NASA already has #1 schedule priority.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #43 on: 10/16/2017 02:26 PM »
Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster?  I would imagine not, for CRS at least.

Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster.  As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.

CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #44 on: 10/16/2017 02:37 PM »
Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster?  I would imagine not, for CRS at least.

Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster.  As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.

CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.

Unless the contract explicitly allows the reflight of boosters, of course NASA has a right to refuse them.  The qualification process was for new boosters.

NASA could probably negotiate compensation from SpaceX for allowing the reuse of boosters, such as getting additional analysis/design/testing/data that would normally be paid for as additional "special studies" contracts, or getting addtional cargo mass/payload flexibility that would otherwise incur additional charges on a CRS flight (or even CCTCap test flights).

It would be great for SpaceX.  Other customers would see NASA accepting the refurbished boosters and it would provide a steady stream of launches for the refurbished boosters.  The uptake of refurbished boosters by customers is promising so far but there hasn't exactly been a stampede to switch to the used boosters.

Offline Mike_1179

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #45 on: 10/16/2017 02:41 PM »
Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster?  I would imagine not, for CRS at least.

Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster.  As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.

CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.

NASA is not a business. It's not trying to reduce costs or increase profits so that its shareholders get more. Part of its mandate is advancing the study aeronautics and space. Does allowing a US company to advance the study of hyersonic retropropulsion and orbital booster re-use align with those aims while still meeting the requirements of law requires them to do (ISS) while being good stewards of taxpayer money?

If it requires thousands of hours of civil-service employee time (which means it costs more), increases the cost of the flight or makes the risk of failure beyond what they see as acceptable, then of course you can see why they'd refuse to allow a re-flown booster. Even if there is no direct link between this re-use and cheaper CRS flights in the future, it is in the interest of NASA to support it at a reasonable level.
« Last Edit: 10/16/2017 02:42 PM by Mike_1179 »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #46 on: 10/16/2017 02:58 PM »
Unless the contract explicitly allows the reflight of boosters, of course NASA has a right to refuse them.  The qualification process was for new boosters.
And yet we've heard many times on this site from people who appear to know what they are talking about is that NASA paid for delivery of cargo to the station, not for specific boosters or rides.  Unless you've seen the contract, how do you know?  I'm not claiming to know, by the way, because I don't.  That's why I asked the question.

Anyway, at some point I firmly believe it will happen (yes, without specific knowledge of the contract), but I think CRS-13 is likely too soon.

Offline su27k

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #47 on: 10/16/2017 04:53 PM »
Does NASA contractually have the right to refuse SpaceX use a used booster?  I would imagine not, for CRS at least.

Obviously SpaceX won't do it if NASA objects, but I think the question is more on the other foot, meaning what NASA's motivation is to argue that it not use a previously flown booster.  As time goes by and (hopefully) more previously flown boosters are employed without failure, that seems harder and harder to justify.

CRS-13 might be too early, but it will happen at some point.

NASA can refuse if it feels the vehicle is not safe or ready based on its insights on the vehicle design and production. I don't think they can refuse just because it's reused or demand price reduction for a reused booster, since the price is written in the contract but the launch vehicle is not. We have seen both providers changing launch vehicle several times in the past, so I don't think it's a big deal, just need some work on both sides.

Offline rockets4life97

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #48 on: 10/16/2017 06:07 PM »
The CRS contracts are a major part of SpaceX's future manifest. If all those flights move to flight proven cores that will be a major win for SpaceX and re-use.

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #49 on: 10/16/2017 06:11 PM »
For reference to the conversation here about CRS-13 using a flight-proven core...

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/10/spacex-zuma-iridium-4-aims-vandenberg-landing/

Basically, all engineering and data reviews have cleared CRS missions to use once-flown Falcon 9 boosters that performed LEO-only missions.  It's with NASA management for the final yes/no decision at this point.

Final public decision expected early November.

Offline mn

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #50 on: 10/16/2017 09:40 PM »
... since the price is written in the contract but the launch vehicle is not...

Do we know for a fact what is in the contract?

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #51 on: 10/17/2017 12:14 AM »
... since the price is written in the contract but the launch vehicle is not...

Do we know for a fact what is in the contract?

In terms of price, yes. The initial twelve launches were contracted for $1.6 billion, and the five extension missions were contracted at $700 million. So, about $135.3 million per launch if you combine the original contract with the extension.

The conventional wisdom seems to be that the contracts specify new boosters, but I have not yet come across documentation that specifies this one way or another.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commercial_Resupply_Services
http://spacenews.com/spacex-wins-5-new-space-station-cargo-missions-in-nasa-contract-estimated-at-700-million/

Edit: section 18.3, page 31 of the following document is the most relevant text I've found so far with regard to new vs. used boosters. It does not explicitly describe that specific scenario, but it discusses NASA's rights under the contract to evaluate the fitness of the vehicle used to fulfill the contract. Beyond that, the contract doesn't seem to discuss or account for new or used launch vehicles.

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/johnson/pdf/418855main_oc_nnj09ga02b.pdf
« Last Edit: 10/17/2017 12:59 AM by Formica »

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Re: SpaceX Falcon 9 : CRS-13 : early Dec 2017 : DISCUSSION
« Reply #52 on: 10/17/2017 03:49 AM »
From the "Customers Views on Reuse" thread:

Back on topic.  In NASA's pre-launch briefing for CRS-10, Dan Hartman--Deputy Manager, ISS Program--addressed NASA's near term plans for reusing the Dragon capsule and future plans for reuse of the Falcon 9 boosters in response to a question from Stephen Clark from SFN.

Quote from: Dan Hartman, NASA Dep. Manager ISS Program
Our plan for CRS-11, it's going to be the Dragon [that will be reused].  Not the Falcon, not a reused booster.  We've done a lot of work with SpaceX, over the last year and a half or two, looking at delta-verification requirements that we need to be comfortable to satisfy ourselves that Dragon can approach the ISS, get within the ellipsoid, and be done safely.  So, a lot of technical work is happening.  I'll tell you, everything is leaning good.  That the next dragon mission that we'll launch will be reused. 
     As far as the booster, we've just started those discussions.  We've got some teams off generating how we'll even go about requesting information from SpaceX.  Laying out our plan.  I imagine we'll have some sort of preliminary review on that in the April/May time period.   I think planning-wise, it may not happen this year.  But shortly thereafter.

The exchange can be found at time mark 22m:25s in the below youtube video.




The fact that NASA has been in the process of determining exactly what needs review and how to go about approving the use of flight proven cores isn't new information.  That they may be in a position to approve using one this year is.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

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TSIS confirmed to be launching on CRS-13, as well as a fancy conflicting launch date :)

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TSIS is an International Space Station-bound instrument that will measure the sun's energy input to Earth. TSIS was build by LASP, integrated at Kennedy Space Center, and will launch in November on a SpaceX Falcon 9.

Just a fun Instagram account to follow in general, too!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BaZHxh6D3hF/


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