Author Topic: SpaceX to lease building at Port Canaveral, build another one  (Read 23348 times)

Online gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • US
  • Liked: 1390
  • Likes Given: 1001
Florida Today: SpaceX to lease building at Port Canaveral, build another one

This has been mentioned in another thread as a possible place for SpaceX to refurbish their cores, seems to be confirmed now.

Quote
The space launch company plans to lease the now-vacant former Spacehab building on the north side of the port, as well as construct a second building adjacent to that site, Murray told port commissioners.

The company will process and refurbish rockets, as well as potentially other functions, at the port, Murray said.
« Last Edit: 08/24/2016 05:34 PM by gongora »

Offline ChrisC

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1423
  • Liked: 251
  • Likes Given: 267
« Last Edit: 08/24/2016 05:49 PM by Chris Bergin »
NASA TV in HD:  history, FAQ and latest status

Offline Rebel44

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 296
  • Liked: 140
  • Likes Given: 733

Offline mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1049
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1266
  • Likes Given: 3227
Google Maps link: http://tinyurl.com/j92fkbv
Thanks for the link!  Interesting that Google Map's satellite photo seems pretty old.  No cargo cranes next to the ASDS "berth", no parking lot.: https://imgur.com/GXO20Ot
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline Ronsmytheiii

  • Moderator
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22325
  • Liked: 603
  • Likes Given: 244
"Every vision is a joke until the first man accomplishes it; once realized, it becomes commonplace." - Robert Goddard

Offline jabe

  • Regular
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1077
  • Liked: 62
  • Likes Given: 4
will the ASDS eventually go there now rather than other port?

Offline mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1049
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1266
  • Likes Given: 3227
will the ASDS eventually go there now rather than other port?
OCISLY already docks at Port Canaveral.  Here is a useful Google map of SpaceX locations made by NSF user Raul.  Under "Florida Sites" click on "Port Canaveral Terminal, ASDS" for it's berth (slip?).  The new lease is on Magellan Rd., less than 1/2 a mile away.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline John Alan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 502
  • Central IL - USA - Earth
  • Liked: 246
  • Likes Given: 1216
http://totalcommercial.com/attachment/20815/620%20Magellan%20Rd.%20Lease%20Flyer%20Brian%201-8-15.pdf

Looks like the building will need some modifications before it's usable for a full S1 stage ingress and egress...  :-\
Maybe that is not the plan... the 2nd (new) building houses S1's and this holds the rest...
Still... good location... less then 1/2 mile from where OCISLY ties up in port...  8)
« Last Edit: 08/24/2016 07:17 PM by John Alan »

Online Brovane

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1031
  • United States
  • Liked: 479
  • Likes Given: 987
"Look at that! If anybody ever said, "you'll be sitting in a spacecraft naked with a 134-pound backpack on your knees charging it", I'd have said "Aw, get serious". - John Young - Apollo-16

Offline ChrisC

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1423
  • Liked: 251
  • Likes Given: 267
Building overview: http://totalcommercial.com/listings/22254

Nice price 15/month.   8)

That link doesn't work for me (blank page in Firefox) but the PDF linked above quotes $15 per square foot.

At 53,360 SF total, that would be $800k for the whole building.
« Last Edit: 08/24/2016 11:56 PM by ChrisC »
NASA TV in HD:  history, FAQ and latest status

Offline RedLineTrain

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 525
  • Liked: 256
  • Likes Given: 235
I'd imagine the Total Commercial link is in error and that it is listed at $15 per square foot per year.

Apparently, on the West Coast, prices are quoted by the month rather than the year, hence Shotwell saying that she pays "50 a square" for non-high-bay manufacturing -- i.e., 50 cents per month per square foot, or $6 a year.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk


Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8621
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 5370
  • Likes Given: 3555
if they keep their current berth at the docks it's hard to imagine much better location. But that's a lot of existing cleanroom space that is nice, but not quite big enough for S1. What else would they use it for? S2 eventually? payloads?
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline obi-wan

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
  • Liked: 579
  • Likes Given: 5
Building overview: http://totalcommercial.com/listings/22254

Nice price 15/month.   8)

That link doesn't work for me (blank page in Firefox) but the PDF linked above quotes $15 per square foot.

At 53,360 SF total, that would be $800k for the whole building.

Typical cost of building a metal building like that would be $150/sq.ft., give or take - if they charged $15/sq.ft./month, the owner could pay off the entire build cost in a year (so I certainly hope it's $15/sq.ft./year)
« Last Edit: 08/25/2016 02:34 PM by obi-wan »

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
The building is in disrepair.  It hasn't been a clean room in years

Offline northenarc

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
  • United States
  • Liked: 156
  • Likes Given: 277
 Seems like a good fit, can't ask for a better location and as a bonus they make nice with the port officials on the docking fees. I guess that reused cores (engines) will be considered proof fired and won't be returned to McGregor prior to reuse and will simply be static fired. And I note engines because there is no evidence that SpaceX will reuse all of the engines in a given core on reflight.

Offline Grandpa to Two

Another little gem that I'd never seen, that's why I love this site so much. To Raul, the work on this map is excellent I thank you very much!
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&authuser=0&mid=1wvgFIPuOmI8da9EIB88tHo9vamo
"All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them" Galileo Galilei

Offline weepingdragon

  • Member
  • Posts: 10
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Old 2007/2008 listing, just to flesh out information of site.

http://www.loopnet.com/Listing/14939206/620-Magellan-Road-Cape-Canaveral-FL/





Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
Maybe the person who authored the SPPF Experimenters' Handbook can answer some questions.

Offline llanitedave

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Nevada Desert
  • Liked: 1280
  • Likes Given: 1476
It must have been a very short and succinct handbook.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
Info:

There is no crane in the main integration hall (only in the air lock and the integration hall extension)
The two airlock doors do not line up.
« Last Edit: 08/26/2016 12:37 PM by Jim »

Offline JBF

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1296
  • Liked: 343
  • Likes Given: 486
Hmm at a minimum they will need to blow out the back wall to the integration hall and add a door. However if they just plan on using that space for one core at a time the crane could be external.
« Last Edit: 08/26/2016 01:17 PM by JBF »
"In principle, rocket engines are simple, but that’s the last place rocket engines are ever simple." Jeff Bezos

Offline John Alan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 502
  • Central IL - USA - Earth
  • Liked: 246
  • Likes Given: 1216
I'm starting to think they leased this for the location and acreage to build a proper building to handle S1 refurb...
This existing building can be made into workshop space for repair/refurb of parts removed from stages in the new building...
It would make a decent east coast Spx Merlin Engine overhaul and repair shop... among other duties...

Just an opinion...  ;)

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
Hmm at a minimum they will need to blow out the back wall to the integration hall and add a door. However if they just plan on using that space for one core at a time the crane could be external.

https://goo.gl/maps/gFpz1gmRGpx

No real approach from the west with a long first stage

Offline Kabloona

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4026
  • Velocitas Eradico
  • Fortress of Solitude
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 446
Maybe they can combine the Annex and the Integration Hall Extension. The Annex door already looks big enough to roll a stage through.

Offline kenny008

  • Member
  • Posts: 94
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 166
How much modification are they actually allowed to do?  They are leasing the space, so I assume the leasing agreement would specify the amount of modification allowed.  "Blowing out the back wall" might not be covered.

Offline kevinof

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 467
  • Dublin/London
  • Liked: 236
  • Likes Given: 290
I'm sure they wouldn't have taken out the lease without first getting approvals for works to be done. They know what they need to manage the stages well enough at this point so my guess is that it's all already in place (approvals that is)

Offline kenny008

  • Member
  • Posts: 94
  • Knoxville, TN
  • Liked: 41
  • Likes Given: 166
Right, I agree.  I'm sure they didn't sign the lease, and then find out it wouldn't work for them.

Just trying to get a feel for what they might have received approval to do.

Offline mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1049
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 1266
  • Likes Given: 3227
Quote
"We are pleased to have been granted temporary use of this facility to give us time to evaluate the building's suitability to support SpaceX’s business in Florida on a longer-term basis,” SpaceX spokesman John Taylor said.
and:
Quote
Port Commissioner Bruce Deardoff said he expects the lease agreement with SpaceX to also include resolving concerns SpaceX recently raised related to a proposed $15,000 fee each time a 30-ton rocket booster returns there.
also see:
Orlando Business Journal: SpaceX expanding operations in Port Canaveral:
Quote
The Hawthorne, Calif.-based firm may take up space inside a 52,000-square-foot building in Port Canaveral as soon as September, reports Florida Today. The company also plans to develop a second building adjacent that site. The buildings would function as a site to process and refurbish SpaceX's Falcon 9 rockets.

It looks to me that SpaceX will build a new building to process boosters.  They'll put the old building to other unspecified uses.  Basically the Port found a way to get more money from SpaceX and SpaceX found a way to get value for spending that money.
« Last Edit: 08/26/2016 04:22 PM by mme »
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline BobHk

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 321
  • Texas
  • Liked: 82
  • Likes Given: 173
And we know theyre using this for the movement of stages...from Port Canaveral to Kennedy Space Center, Fla. - no wit wont have to go so far.

http://www.space.com/33873-spacex-reuses-shuttle-transporter-for-falcon.html

 In 2014, SpaceX purchased the vehicle at a federal surplus auction for $37,075.

The antennae being installed at Boca are also surplus...glad to see SpaceX isn't letting anything go to waste if they can get it and use it.
« Last Edit: 08/26/2016 10:29 PM by BobHk »

Online Comga

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3912
  • Liked: 1232
  • Likes Given: 1050
Hmm at a minimum they will need to blow out the back wall to the integration hall and add a door. However if they just plan on using that space for one core at a time the crane could be external.

https://goo.gl/maps/gFpz1gmRGpx

No real approach from the west with a long first stage

Google maps shows a possibly specious vehicle path straight north from just east of Grouper Rd across a large paved lot to Magellan Rd right by the SE corner of the building. Could SpaceX actually follow this path on the new transporter?
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
The issue is getting into the building and not getting to the building

Offline catdlr

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4648
  • Marina del Rey, California, USA
  • Liked: 1473
  • Likes Given: 902
another article with a side picture of the building and more information.

SpaceX to lease building at Port Canaveral, may build another one

http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/spacex/2016/08/24/spacex-lease-building-port-canaveral-build-another-one/89230076/

Quote
SpaceX plans to move into the 52,000-square-foot former Spacehab building through a temporary property-use permit between the company and the port.

Quote
"We are pleased to have been granted temporary use of this facility to give us time to evaluate the building's suitability to support SpaceX’s business in Florida on a longer-term basis,” SpaceX spokesman John Taylor said.

Quote
Port Commissioner Bruce Deardoff said he expects the lease agreement with SpaceX to also include resolving concerns SpaceX recently raised related to a proposed $15,000 fee each time a 30-ton rocket booster returns there.
Tony De La Rosa

Offline hms hexapuma

  • Member
  • Posts: 3
  • Regina, Sk, CAN
  • Liked: 1
  • Likes Given: 2
I understand the jist of this conversation is access to the SpaceHab building doors, but I also wonder about getting the boosters off of Highway 401 and into the facility. Without measuring the booster transporters turning radius I am only guessing that it would not make the south bound turn off of 401 onto Grouper Road (or Payne Way if Magellan Road was finished to the east of SpaceHab.
But as I type this I wonder if the booster transporter has independent steering on the various axles? That would solve any possible problems.
Sorry: just more questions, and no answers.

Online eriblo

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 267
  • Sweden
  • Liked: 137
  • Likes Given: 103
I understand the jist of this conversation is access to the SpaceHab building doors, but I also wonder about getting the boosters off of Highway 401 and into the facility. Without measuring the booster transporters turning radius I am only guessing that it would not make the south bound turn off of 401 onto Grouper Road (or Payne Way if Magellan Road was finished to the east of SpaceHab.
But as I type this I wonder if the booster transporter has independent steering on the various axles? That would solve any possible problems.
Sorry: just more questions, and no answers.
They have independent steering, don't think they would be going much of anywhere otherwise. I doubt the exit from from 401 would be a problem in this case since the talk has been about the recovered boosters that start out on Grouper Road... :)
My guess is that they are already navigating this corner but in the other direction to get to the Cape.

Offline Scylla

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 460
  • Clinton NC, USA
  • Liked: 624
  • Likes Given: 49
I understand the jist of this conversation is access to the SpaceHab building doors, but I also wonder about getting the boosters off of Highway 401 and into the facility. Without measuring the booster transporters turning radius I am only guessing that it would not make the south bound turn off of 401 onto Grouper Road (or Payne Way if Magellan Road was finished to the east of SpaceHab.
But as I type this I wonder if the booster transporter has independent steering on the various axles? That would solve any possible problems.
Sorry: just more questions, and no answers.
They have independent steering, don't think they would be going much of anywhere otherwise. I doubt the exit from from 401 would be a problem in this case since the talk has been about the recovered boosters that start out on Grouper Road... :)
My guess is that they are already navigating this corner but in the other direction to get to the Cape.
Video of transporter taking a corner is here.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40926.msg1573685#msg1573685
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Offline Raul

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 137
  • Ústí nad Orlicí, CZECH
  • Liked: 184
  • Likes Given: 23
Another little gem that I'd never seen, that's why I love this site so much. To Raul, the work on this map is excellent I thank you very much!
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?hl=en&authuser=0&mid=1wvgFIPuOmI8da9EIB88tHo9vamo
Thanks for appreciation.. site is included now to the map together with next updates.

Offline Roy_H

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
  • Liked: 183
  • Likes Given: 1171
The building doesn't look too useful as is. I suppose they would have to take out the wall between the Integration Hall and the Integration Hall Extension, made a new large garage door opening to the outside of the Integration Hall Extension and extended the crane from the Integration Hall Extension through to the far end of the Integration Hall, it could be made to work. Still going to be difficult to maneuver the truck/stage into there.
"If we don't achieve re-usability, I will consider SpaceX to be a failure." - Elon Musk

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
1.The building doesn't look too useful as is. I suppose they would have to take out the wall between the Integration Hall and the Integration Hall Extension, made a new large garage door opening to the outside of the Integration Hall

2.Extension and extended the crane from the Integration Hall Extension through to the far end of the Integration Hall, it could be made to work.

3.Still going to be difficult to maneuver the truck/stage into there.

1.  Can't, that is part of the basic building structure.  The IH extension was an add on.

2.  Can't extend the crane because:
a.  #1
b.  There are no structure to support a crane in the IH. 
c.  The crane rolls north/south

3. There is way a stage can fit on the west side parking lot.

Online rockets4life97

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 390
  • Liked: 175
  • Likes Given: 121
Is anything stopping SpaceX from tearing the whole thing down and building a new building?

Online meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7688
  • N. California
  • Liked: 4006
  • Likes Given: 822
Is anything stopping SpaceX from tearing the whole thing down and building a new building?

Why not skip directly to step B?  They can use this building for other stuff.  It's not like they're not constantly building something or other...
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Kabloona

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4026
  • Velocitas Eradico
  • Fortress of Solitude
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 446
Quote
3. There is way a stage can fit on the west side parking lot.

Just to be clear, I'm pretty sure Jim meant there's *no* way a stage can get into the building through the west side.

Offline Roy_H

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 718
  • Liked: 183
  • Likes Given: 1171
Well it sounds like the entire building is pretty much useless to SpaceX so the only value is the land beside the building where SpaceX will build a new building for storing returned stages.
"If we don't achieve re-usability, I will consider SpaceX to be a failure." - Elon Musk

Offline Kabloona

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4026
  • Velocitas Eradico
  • Fortress of Solitude
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 446
Well it sounds like the entire building is pretty much useless to SpaceX so the only value is the land beside the building where SpaceX will build a new building for storing returned stages.

Maybe not useless. There's plenty of office space that they could use for engineers and admin people. And maybe they have other plans for the floor space, like bringing in more payloads for processing. I don't know what the payload situation is in the HIF, but if they want to be launching every 2 weeks they're going to need to have multiple payloads on site at any given time.

Offline CuddlyRocket

Quote
3. There is way a stage can fit on the west side parking lot.

Just to be clear, I'm pretty sure Jim meant there's *no* way a stage can get into the building through the west side.

No way a stage as long as the F9 1st stage ... etc. SpaceX looks ahead; perhaps they foresee the need to refurbish the second stage or one or more of the stages of another launcher? Or maybe even returning Dragons?


Well it sounds like the entire building is pretty much useless to SpaceX so the only value is the land beside the building where SpaceX will build a new building for storing returned stages.

Maybe not useless. There's plenty of office space that they could use for engineers and admin people. And maybe they have other plans for the floor space, like bringing in more payloads for processing. I don't know what the payload situation is in the HIF, but if they want to be launching every 2 weeks they're going to need to have multiple payloads on site at any given time.

Payloads including their possible satellite constellation? The SpaceX spokesman said they were "[evaluating] the building's suitability to support SpaceX’s business in Florida on a longer-term basis"; doesn't actually mention stage refurbishment.

Offline deruch

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1519
  • California
  • Liked: 1155
  • Likes Given: 1628
Is anything stopping SpaceX from tearing the whole thing down and building a new building?
Yes.  Ownership and/or the lease agreement.  That said, there's no guarantee that these couldn't change. 

Well it sounds like the entire building is pretty much useless to SpaceX so the only value is the land beside the building where SpaceX will build a new building for storing returned stages.

Maybe not useless. There's plenty of office space that they could use for engineers and admin people. And maybe they have other plans for the floor space, like bringing in more payloads for processing. I don't know what the payload situation is in the HIF, but if they want to be launching every 2 weeks they're going to need to have multiple payloads on site at any given time.
Or as a fairing refurbishment site after they figure out recovery?  Or space to do something with recovered Crew Dragons (or other reusable variants of Dragon 2).  Etc.  Since SpaceX has said that they will "evaluate the building's suitability to support SpaceX’s business", I don't think we can be sure one way or the other.  Maybe they decide that this building won't work at all and don't move to a long term lease.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline wes_wilson

  • Armchair Rocketeer
  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 114
  • Florida
  • Liked: 50
  • Likes Given: 88
Perhaps this building becomes a dragon refurbishment building and the new building becomes the S1 refurbishment building. 
@SpaceX "When can I buy my ticket to Mars?"

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
Not Dragons.  The facility doesn't support propellants.

Online envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2707
  • Liked: 1248
  • Likes Given: 780
Not Dragons.  The facility doesn't support propellants.

Don't they normally load Dragon's propellants at the HIF anyway?

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
Not Dragons.  The facility doesn't support propellants.

Don't they normally load Dragon's propellants at the HIF anyway?

The point is that you don't work on a vehicle who's prop system has been previously wetted in a nonhazardous facility, unless it was flushed and purged (and disassembled and cleaned).
« Last Edit: 08/29/2016 04:01 PM by Jim »

Online StuffOfInterest

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 385
  • Just interested in space
  • McLean, Virginia, USA
  • Liked: 83
  • Likes Given: 56
I really doubt there are plans to take core stages into the existing building.  I'd lay my money on the new building being oriented for easy drive in from the wharf with drive out the other side to head on back to the launch pads.  The existing building, with some refurb, I could see either being used for payload processing or perhaps component reprocessing after engines and/or legs are removed in the new building.

Online rsdavis9

and/or legs are removed in the new building.

Man they really need to get those legs automatically refoldable.
Just recover the helium used to pressurize the cylinder and then apply pressure or hydraulic fluid to the other side and fold them right up.

With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline John Alan

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 502
  • Central IL - USA - Earth
  • Liked: 246
  • Likes Given: 1216
and/or legs are removed in the new building.

Man they really need to get those legs automatically refoldable.
Just recover the helium used to pressurize the cylinder and then apply pressure or hydraulic fluid to the other side and fold them right up.

They are thought to be SINGLE acting with latching collets on each piston section...
What you are suggesting is not possible as built... they are one time use... unless taken apart and reset...

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6384
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1608
  • Likes Given: 1415
What might come is they remove the pistons and fold the legs up. The transport ring looks like it has the space for them.

Online rsdavis9

Or just have a release (lever) for the locking collets.
With ELV best efficiency was the paradigm. The new paradigm is reusable, good enough, and commonality of design.
Same engines. Design once. Same vehicle. Design once. Reusable. Build once.

Offline rpapo

  • Cybernetic Mole
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1054
  • Michigan, USA
  • Liked: 477
  • Likes Given: 399
Or just have a release (lever) for the locking collets.
IMHO, a simple slot to insert a tool would be sufficient.  No need to carry the weight of the tool aloft.
« Last Edit: 08/30/2016 02:26 PM by rpapo »
An Apollo fanboy . . . fifty years ago.

Offline JBF

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1296
  • Liked: 343
  • Likes Given: 486
Or just have a release (lever) for the locking collets.
INHO, a simple slot to insert a tool would be sufficient.  No need to carry the weight of the tool aloft.

One step at a time.  The labor to pull off the legs and reattach is minimal compared to the stage cost.
"In principle, rocket engines are simple, but that’s the last place rocket engines are ever simple." Jeff Bezos

Offline the_other_Doug

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2490
  • Minneapolis, MN
  • Liked: 1520
  • Likes Given: 2687
And... you want to make the downlock collets very easy to deploy and lock, and very very hard to disengage.  The current design has features reflecting the failure of a downlock collet, which resulted in LOV after a fully successful landing.

I doubt we'll see any changes to how easy the collets can be unlocked any time in the near future...
-Doug  (With my shield, not yet upon it)

Offline Blackjax

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 353
  • Liked: 26
  • Likes Given: 33
Not Dragons.  The facility doesn't support propellants.

Don't they normally load Dragon's propellants at the HIF anyway?

The point is that you don't work on a vehicle who's prop system has been previously wetted in a nonhazardous facility, unless it was flushed and purged (and disassembled and cleaned).

Is there any practical way for them to turn this into a facility that can handle hazardous materials?

Offline bstrong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 392
  • Liked: 492
  • Likes Given: 321
I really doubt there are plans to take core stages into the existing building.  I'd lay my money on the new building being oriented for easy drive in from the wharf with drive out the other side to head on back to the launch pads.  The existing building, with some refurb, I could see either being used for payload processing or perhaps component reprocessing after engines and/or legs are removed in the new building.

Yes, I thought it was pretty clear from the quote in the Orlando Sentinel article that stages would be processed in the new building:

Quote
"We have concluded a temporary-use permit with SpaceX in anticipation of a longer-term lease agreement….," Murray said,"to take over the SpaceHab building on the north side of the port. That’s a 52,000 square foot building, and they are contemplating a hangar space of 40,000 square feet, where they are going to bring the rockets in and do the refurbishing."

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-spacex-port-canveral-20160825-story.html

Offline Helodriver

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 933
  • Liked: 4852
  • Likes Given: 514
Port Canaveral building still has "For Lease" signs up front, but forklift and dumpster have appeared to begin cleanout.

Online oldAtlas_Eguy

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3136
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1539
  • Likes Given: 123
This building is very haphazard in its design. As if it is multiple add-on's (5-10 upgrades/add-on's).

From the standpoint of AC, plumbing and electrical in such numerous add-on's building is a high maintenance cost. Leaks, shorts/opens/overloads, air flow problems, etc.

Almost better to level the building and build a new one unless the building has some expensive features (clean room supposedly) SpaceX would like to use and got it for a cheap price.

Added: The initial structure looks like its was CBS or poured concrete and the add-ons are all metal.
« Last Edit: 09/10/2016 07:03 PM by oldAtlas_Eguy »

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
This building is very haphazard in its design. As if it is multiple add-on's (5-10 upgrades/add-on's).

From the standpoint of AC, plumbing and electrical in such numerous add-on's building is a high maintenance cost. Leaks, shorts/opens/overloads, air flow problems, etc.


There were three and I was responsible for the first, the airlock annex

Online oldAtlas_Eguy

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3136
  • Florida
  • Liked: 1539
  • Likes Given: 123
This building is very haphazard in its design. As if it is multiple add-on's (5-10 upgrades/add-on's).

From the standpoint of AC, plumbing and electrical in such numerous add-on's building is a high maintenance cost. Leaks, shorts/opens/overloads, air flow problems, etc.


There were three and I was responsible for the first, the airlock annex
How was the maintenance/operation? Any persistent problems that could never seem to be fixed?

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299

How was the maintenance/operation? Any persistent problems that could never seem to be fixed?

I believe the AC has been turned off for awhile and on the east side, some stucco is coming off

Offline CyndyC

For unspecified reasons, there has been a delay in finalizing a formal lease agreement between Port Canaveral and SpaceX. So far SpaceX has only been granted a permit for temporary use, and it's unclear if they have begun operations onsite, according to a report yesterday from Orlando Business Journal. The report itemizes the expenses currently in the lease agreement.


Port Canaveral to discuss lease agreement for SpaceX expansion
Nov 22, 2016, 2:08pm EST
 
Matthew Richardson
Reporter
Orlando Business Journal

Plans are still in the works for a rocket manufacturer to have a refurbishment center in Port Canaveral, but a lease agreement is causing a hold up.

Port Canaveral's board of commissioners will discuss a lease agreement sometime in December for SpaceX to occupy a 53,360-square-foot building. Port commissioners postponed the lease vote Nov. 16 due to the agreement not being finalized.
 
Meeting documents detailed a five-year lease charging $306,880 annually, or $8 per square foot. The agreement also shows a port infrastructure fee of $26,680 per year, additional land use totaling $60,990 per year, capital improvement costs of $250,000 and a $90,000 broker commission.

The building is at 620 Magellan Road. The broker for the deal is Lightle Beckner Robinson.
SpaceX, based in Hawthorne, Calf., wants the building to refurbish its spent Falcon 9 rockets that it often launches from Cape Canaveral — a five-mile difference between the two areas. The deal has been in the works since August, but SpaceX has been granted only a temporary use permit. It is unclear if SpaceX is using the building. The company has not given a statement about the expansion and Port Canaveral has not confirmed if the firm already is operating there.

In addition to using an existing structure, SpaceX also plans to build a 44,000-square-foot hangar in Port Canaveral, but those plans have not been approved, either.

SpaceX rocket launch plans have been put on hold due to its Falcon 9 rocket exploding Sept. 1. As of now, SpaceX plans to launch again from Florida in December.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/news/2016/11/22/port-canaveral-to-discuss-lease-agreement-for.html
"Once a Blue, always a Blue." -- USN/USMC Flight Demonstration Squadron

Online mnelson

  • Member
  • Posts: 40
  • Salt Lake City, Utah
  • Liked: 59
  • Likes Given: 113
From the Orlando Business Journal:
SpaceX signing lease for rocket refurbishing center in Port Canaveral

Port Canaveral commissioners are set to vote on a lease agreement for SpaceX to renovate a building and reuse it for its rocket refurbishment center.
SpaceX and Port Canaveral have been in talks since last year about a lease for the former 53,360-square-foot SpaceHab building at 620 Magellan Road in Port Canaveral, but commissioners will discuss and vote on the agreement on March 22.
...

[Thanks ChrisC for pointing out the right thread.]

Online symbios

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 238
  • Elon Musk fan
  • Sweden
  • Liked: 146
  • Likes Given: 669
Found this while browsing  8)

SpaceX 'super-excited' about Port Canaveral complex:
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/spacex/2017/03/22/spacex-super-excited-port-canaveral-complex/99483242/

Quote
SpaceX Senior Director of Launch Operations Ricky Lim
...
Lim made a presentation at the Canaveral Port Authority meeting on Wednesday, just before port commissioners approved a five-year lease agreement with SpaceX.

The lease includes the 53,360-square-foot former SpaceHab facility at 620 Magellan Road on the north side of the port. The company also plans to build an adjacent 44,000-square-foot hangar on the 4-acre parcel.
I'm a fan, not a fanatic...

Offline deruch

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1519
  • California
  • Liked: 1155
  • Likes Given: 1628
Found this while browsing  8)

SpaceX 'super-excited' about Port Canaveral complex:
http://www.floridatoday.com/story/tech/science/space/spacex/2017/03/22/spacex-super-excited-port-canaveral-complex/99483242/

Quote
SpaceX Senior Director of Launch Operations Ricky Lim
...
Lim made a presentation at the Canaveral Port Authority meeting on Wednesday, just before port commissioners approved a five-year lease agreement with SpaceX.

The lease includes the 53,360-square-foot former SpaceHab facility at 620 Magellan Road on the north side of the port. The company also plans to build an adjacent 44,000-square-foot hangar on the 4-acre parcel.
I wonder if SpaceX's plans to do the refurb work at the port itself is part of an agreement to avoid/waive/lower fees the port was talking about charging for their "importing" ASDS landed rockets there.  So, instead of being charged a per core fee, they are agreeing to expand their footprint there and thereby pay more rent.
Shouldn't reality posts be in "Advanced concepts"?  --Nomadd

Offline ChrisC

  • Veteran
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1423
  • Liked: 251
  • Likes Given: 267
I don't think you need to even wonder.  Wasn't exactly that covered earlier in this thread, like a year ago, when the 2nd or 3rd ASDS came back with a first stage on it?
NASA TV in HD:  history, FAQ and latest status

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4262
  • UK
    • Plan 28
  • Liked: 2855
  • Likes Given: 952

Online acsawdey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 301
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 175
  • Likes Given: 307
Quote
.@SpaceX gets approval for rocket hangar at Port Canaveral

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/space-news/port-authority-approves-spacex-hanger-for-rocket-storage

https://twitter.com/emspeck/status/880149364244697088

Quote
Elon Musk's commercial space company requested a lease for 2.17 acres to build a more than 67,000 square-foot hangar to store, refurbish and test used rocket boosters and eventually other rocket parts, according to the lease.

Perhaps this is where recovered fairings will go as well?

Offline Kabloona

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4026
  • Velocitas Eradico
  • Fortress of Solitude
  • Liked: 2204
  • Likes Given: 446
I don't think you need to even wonder.  Wasn't exactly that covered earlier in this thread, like a year ago, when the 2nd or 3rd ASDS came back with a first stage on it?

Yes, good memory, the "dock fee"compromise was mentioned in the following article and discussed here last June:

http://www.fox35orlando.com/news/local-news/164663415-story
« Last Edit: 06/29/2017 07:57 PM by Kabloona »

Offline CyndyC

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/space-news/port-authority-approves-spacex-hanger-for-rocket-storage

Quote
Elon Musk's commercial space company requested a lease for 2.17 acres to build a more than 67,000 square-foot hangar to store, refurbish and test used rocket boosters and eventually other rocket parts, according to the lease.

Wow, can't wait to see static fires at the port! Exciting! ;)
"Once a Blue, always a Blue." -- USN/USMC Flight Demonstration Squadron

Offline Lars-J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3452
  • California
  • Liked: 2691
  • Likes Given: 1702
https://www.clickorlando.com/news/space-news/port-authority-approves-spacex-hanger-for-rocket-storage

Quote
Elon Musk's commercial space company requested a lease for 2.17 acres to build a more than 67,000 square-foot hangar to store, refurbish and test used rocket boosters and eventually other rocket parts, according to the lease.

Wow, can't wait to see static fires at the port! Exciting! ;)

Testing doesn't have to mean firing of engines.  :) There are many other things to test as you refurbish a booster.

Online gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1991
  • US
  • Liked: 1390
  • Likes Given: 1001
Tweet from Greg Pallone
Quote
NOW: Per @BCFRpio roof fire at @SpaceX building @PortCanaveral multiple units on scene. @MyNews13 #Brevard

Is SpaceX using that building yet or is it still being refurbished?

Offline Lars-J

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3452
  • California
  • Liked: 2691
  • Likes Given: 1702
Tweet from Greg Pallone
Quote
NOW: Per @BCFRpio roof fire at @SpaceX building @PortCanaveral multiple units on scene. @MyNews13 #Brevard

Is SpaceX using that building yet or is it still being refurbished?

Hopefully this is not the launch control center.


Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 31294
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9578
  • Likes Given: 299
Spacehab building

Offline woods170

  • IRAS fan
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7295
  • IRAS fan
  • The Netherlands
  • Liked: 2955
  • Likes Given: 875
Tweet from Greg Pallone
Quote
NOW: Per @BCFRpio roof fire at @SpaceX building @PortCanaveral multiple units on scene. @MyNews13 #Brevard

Is SpaceX using that building yet or is it still being refurbished?

Hopefully this is not the launch control center.
No. It was the old Spacehab building. There was a localized roof fire. At the time the fire was reported there was nobody in the building. No injuries reported. Extent of damage not exactly clear but likely confined to the roof.

Offline Rebel44

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 296
  • Liked: 140
  • Likes Given: 733
https://twitter.com/jbtaylor/status/886763237538226176

Grateful for quick response by Brevard Co. Fire Rescue & Canaveral Fire Rescue. Fortunately no damage to SpaceX equipment or hardware.

Offline vaporcobra

https://www.clickorlando.com/news/space-news/port-authority-approves-spacex-hanger-for-rocket-storage

Quote
Elon Musk's commercial space company requested a lease for 2.17 acres to build a more than 67,000 square-foot hangar to store, refurbish and test used rocket boosters and eventually other rocket parts, according to the lease.

Wow, can't wait to see static fires at the port! Exciting! ;)

Testing doesn't have to mean firing of engines.  :) There are many other things to test as you refurbish a booster.

Note that at a presentation to the Canaveral Port Authority meeting in March, Lim specifically stated that the new leased building(s) will allow SpaceX to forgo shipping boosters to TX after recovery, and that they could remain in Florida alone between launches. Several possible conclusions, but he was very specific about the expedience not shipping to TX for testing would add to reuse.
spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace

Tags: