Author Topic: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries  (Read 106705 times)

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #320 on: 01/18/2017 12:08 am »
That would work out well I agree as a potential one hour documentary on SpaceX. Perhaps airing Mars as 2 hour segments would change viewer's interest...

There was enough viewer interest for NG to renew it. I think that the space enthusiast crowd has been more harsh than the general public.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #321 on: 01/19/2017 03:59 am »
Tyson just seems more and more annoying to me. He's rarely 100% technically accurate. I used to be a fan, but I've grown to despise when he is the go-to science guy.

Zubrin is great. He's the same old annoyingly-passionate guy, and he made the last couple episodes tolerable. You feel like he's pushing humanity to Mars, not by technical prowess (although he's pretty clever) or money (he's definitely no Bezos) or political connections (he's a definite outsider) but by the raw power of his will.

I do see your point about Tyson. I think he is a great science popularizer. The problem is that he's adopted too much of the showman persona and is not concerned about accuracy. The pendulum has swung too far.

As for Zubrin, I've seen a lot of Zubrin over the years. He can speak a lot of nonsense. I've seen him numerous times where he gets up on a stage and he says some ridiculous things. Sometimes he puts that in his writings. If you edit him judiciously, you can edit out the nonsense. But he still said it. And that's one of the things that limits his effectiveness as an operator, as opposed to a spokesperson, because the experts (some of whom he has said nasty things about) don't take him seriously. I also think it has limited his effectiveness as a spokesperson: if you get on a stage and call people Nazis and incompetent, you get invited on fewer stages after that.
Yeah, I think I'd like to go to Mars some day, but not if it meant I had to spend years stuck in a small confined space with Zubrin. :D Everything you said is no doubt accurate, and I definitely don't see eye to eye with him on political issues or technological issues, but I think my statement is still true.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #322 on: 01/19/2017 04:18 am »
You kind of need a crazy passion to make things happen. No logical, hyper-pragmatic person decides to settle Mars. It takes a special sort of crazy to see an oasis where almost everyone else sees a death trap.

I think there probably wouldn't be a SpaceX without Zubrin.
« Last Edit: 01/19/2017 04:18 am by Robotbeat »
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #323 on: 01/19/2017 04:59 am »

I think there probably wouldn't be a SpaceX without Zubrin.

That's certainly supported by Vance's biography of Musk.
Apologies in advance for any lack of civility - it's unintended

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #324 on: 01/19/2017 01:15 pm »
You kind of need a crazy passion to make things happen. No logical, hyper-pragmatic person decides to settle Mars. It takes a special sort of crazy to see an oasis where almost everyone else sees a death trap.

I dunno about that. There are different types of crazy. And there are certainly different types of passion. I actually think that Musk is passionate, maybe a little nuts, but he also seems to have a good sense of limitations and reality and a good sense of the state of technology and what needs to be done. (One thing that Musk does that I don't think is a good idea is that he plasters over some of the holes in his vision with humor. "Yeah, we don't know how that will work, but here's a joke to cover that up..." But he at least knows that the holes are there.)

I think Zubrin is different. I think that often he is his own worst enemy. I've heard him say things in public--or write them--that are totally at odds with reality. The average listener might not know rocket stuff, so they may not know when they are being told a lie about rocketry, but when the lie pertains to everyday things that people do understand, it is counter-productive. Suppose somebody comes along and hears Zubrin and they start to think "Yeah, settling Mars might be a great challenge for us to undertake..." and then they hear Zubrin say something like "there has been no technological progress since 1898" (yes, EIGHTEEN ninety-eight) and they know that this is not true (reason: airplanes). It just detracts from his own message because it indicates that he does not have a basic sense of reality.

Offline Robotbeat

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #325 on: 01/19/2017 06:29 pm »
Agreed. I was just reading his Twitter timeline (I'm cheating, Jon), and there is plenty of dumb stuff there.

I don't think Zubrin's self-defeating comments are a necessary byproduct of his crazy passion, but the two tend to go together.

It does make things more interesting (and frustrating).
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #326 on: 01/19/2017 08:55 pm »
I don't think Zubrin's self-defeating comments are a necessary byproduct of his crazy passion, but the two tend to go together.

I also don't think that they are a necessary byproduct. He has passion, and maybe the only way he could have sustained that passion over three decades (when most of us just get tired of banging our heads against the wall) is being a greater degree of nuts. I think I first met him in person at a DC-X test launch in the early 1990s. Somebody introduced us at a cocktail party. He was clearly a little crazed then.

I do think that he undercut his ability to influence NASA and technology development very early on. He has a tendency to take intellectual shortcuts in many of his arguments. For instance, he will advocate a solution that is actually very complicated, but then claim that it is easy. And he'll punctuate that by saying that the only reason anybody thinks it is hard is because NASA is [fill in the blank: corrupt, incompetent, self-serving, etc.]. For example, when somebody points to microgravity effects on the human body, his "easy" solution is to use tethered spacecraft, without acknowledging all the difficulties and unknowns for doing that. Similarly, his original Mars Direct plan included an autonomously operating nuclear reactor on the Martian surface, claiming that it's "easy" because we've built lots of reactors before (but none of them have been autonomously operating).

Anyway, getting back to the miniseries, I thought that Zubrin came across quite well. If you spliced together all of his on-air appearances in the six episodes, he said a lot of interesting and insightful things. But that makes me wonder about all the stuff he also said that the editors cut out.

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #327 on: 01/19/2017 10:47 pm »
That would work out well I agree as a potential one hour documentary on SpaceX. Perhaps airing Mars as 2 hour segments would change viewer's interest...

There was enough viewer interest for NG to renew it. I think that the space enthusiast crowd has been more harsh than the general public.

Maybe not. Could be a multi-season package deal to begin with. AIUI it is cheaper to do several seasons to spread out the startup cost of the project rather than just a single season. Providing the audience rating don't drip below a certain level

Insight from the daily blog of one Joseph Mallozzi. Who was a writer & producer on the Stargate TV series. If interested in his current TV series "Dark Matter" than you can find a lot of background on that series in Mallozzi's daily blog, since he is one of the showrunners.

 

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #328 on: 01/23/2017 05:18 am »
I can make lots of complaints about Zubrin but I really liked the "Mars Underground" documentary. It had a lot of the life and character that this series lacked, and a real sense of "wow, we can do this". People disagree with elements of his plan but it was at the very least excellent hard SF that did not use space as just a metaphor for coldness and isolation and our fears of a bleak future.

Offline zodiacchris

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #329 on: 01/23/2017 05:29 am »
After long last, and after reading this thread, I managed to see all six episodes. I had braced myself and yes, the acting wasn't particularly great, but I have seen worse. The logical gaps and shortfalls, well, show me a film that is 100% accurate. I absolutely loved the Martian and that had momentary lapses of reason (the hole in the glove  :o?).

So to my surprise I really liked this, and look forward to the second series. Maybe I'm just easy to please  :)

Offline Archibald

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #330 on: 01/23/2017 01:42 pm »

I think there probably wouldn't be a SpaceX without Zubrin.

That's certainly supported by Vance's biography of Musk.

See my post here  https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=40165.msg1526824#msg1526824

There is a real link between Zubrin and the early history of SpaceX.
« Last Edit: 01/23/2017 01:46 pm by Archibald »
Han shot first and Gwynne Shotwell !

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #331 on: 01/23/2017 03:36 pm »
I can make lots of complaints about Zubrin but I really liked the "Mars Underground" documentary. It had a lot of the life and character that this series lacked, and a real sense of "wow, we can do this". People disagree with elements of his plan but it was at the very least excellent hard SF that did not use space as just a metaphor for coldness and isolation and our fears of a bleak future.

I agree, it was an excellent documentary. And it had a pretty good soundtrack too:




Offline Blackstar

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #332 on: 01/23/2017 03:38 pm »
After long last, and after reading this thread, I managed to see all six episodes. I had braced myself and yes, the acting wasn't particularly great, but I have seen worse. The logical gaps and shortfalls, well, show me a film that is 100% accurate. I absolutely loved the Martian and that had momentary lapses of reason (the hole in the glove  :o?).

So to my surprise I really liked this, and look forward to the second series. Maybe I'm just easy to please  :)

I'm with you on this. Everybody has their own likes and dislikes, but I think we should be able to say "I disliked it because of X, Y and Z" and still acknowledge a show's strengths. People who labeled it as "unwatchable" or total crap were being, I think, a bit excessive. Trust me, there's a lot worse. I've watched a lot worse.

Offline KelvinZero

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Re: Ron Howard Mars Miniseries
« Reply #333 on: 08/30/2017 12:40 pm »
I just watched (bits of) this with a 2.5 year old. They liked the rockets but by about half way though first or second episode they became a bit worried and wanted assurance that they were not going to be put on a rocket, arguing they were too small.

I would still like to see a second series. I actually think they should have started about there, for example with the first colonists. An antarctica-like base could be awaiting them. They could have thrown in the same malfunction, but it wouldnt be like everything had to go wrong on the first trip just to create drama. The important setup and background in this series could be just shown as flashbacks, mixed in with flashbacks to 2016 stuff.

Scriptwriters have this huge problem with hardSF scenarios, and the problem is worst of all in space docudramas: we can set a fantastic amount of stories in present day earth, anything from Seinfield to Law and Order to reality TV. The moment we expand this setting even a tiny bit into the future, sticking with hardSF, instead of having an even richer environment scenarios shrink to a tiny repetitive set. From all those options, suddenly all they can write about is "something malfunctioned, we are going to die".

I think the reason is that the story has to revolve around whatever tiny subset you added. You could take the movie "You've got mail" with Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan and move it 20 years into the future, but people would justifiably say "WTF?? why on earth did you do that?"

It is an interesting paradox. Making the world a little bit wider shrinks scriptwriter options to almost zero. I feel there is a recipe to escape this, but it hasn't been discovered yet.

One approach I would like to see is character driven hardSF stories where the technology is just there. Like a documentary of Himalayan sherpas or extreme sports enthusiasts or scientists who climb active volcanos, what brought them here? For every part on a rocket, there is some engineer who not only made it, but made it their life. A good documentary or storyteller can make us feel a bit of what they feel. I don't mean gloss over the technology. In this series I feel technology was only explained to the resolution to understand the malfunction that created the plot. You could have more emotion in a real engineer describing real technology that they actually care about, without even killing anyone.

(I suddenly feel I may be repeating myself.. will have to check I have not regurgitated an earlier rant :) )
« Last Edit: 08/30/2017 01:05 pm by KelvinZero »

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