Author Topic: ARCA Space Corporation  (Read 22436 times)

Offline ringsider

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked: 119
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #120 on: 06/27/2017 09:56 PM »
Regarding the construction they answered my question on using fiberglass for both vehicles:

Quote from: ARCA SPACE CORPORATION
The Haas 2CA orbital launcher will be using the same composites as the Demonstrator 3. While carbon fiber would be a little more rigid, the fiberglass composites we are using have a higher strength to weight ratio, overall. And they are less expensive.

They refer to specific strength. I don't think that istrue, CFRP is lighter for the same yield than GFRP. 

Fun fact: balsa has a higher specfic strength than titanium.

Offline meberbs

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 833
  • Liked: 821
  • Likes Given: 242
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #121 on: 06/27/2017 11:07 PM »
Regarding the construction they answered my question on using fiberglass for both vehicles:

Quote from: ARCA SPACE CORPORATION
The Haas 2CA orbital launcher will be using the same composites as the Demonstrator 3. While carbon fiber would be a little more rigid, the fiberglass composites we are using have a higher strength to weight ratio, overall. And they are less expensive.

They refer to specific strength. I don't think that istrue, CFRP is lighter for the same yield than GFRP. 

Fun fact: balsa has a higher specfic strength than titanium.
It looks like an S-glass/epoxy composite can get close to the strength to weight ratio for carbon/epoxy, but their statement is still wrong.
http://www.carbonfibertubeshop.com/tube%20properties.html

Also, your mileage may vary on that balsa fact. It may be true, but this site disagrees. If you check the source of the numbers on the Wikipedia table, you see that while Balsa is really high on the list, this is only along the grain, and it is very bad perpendicular, severely limiting its usefulness. (Relatedly, fiber direction also matters for composites, the reference above at least should be apples-to-apples for the S-glass vs carbon fiber, but there is no such thing as apples to apples for titanium and balsa.)

Online envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2125
  • Liked: 926
  • Likes Given: 599
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #122 on: 06/28/2017 03:51 PM »
Regarding the construction they answered my question on using fiberglass for both vehicles:

Quote from: ARCA SPACE CORPORATION
The Haas 2CA orbital launcher will be using the same composites as the Demonstrator 3. While carbon fiber would be a little more rigid, the fiberglass composites we are using have a higher strength to weight ratio, overall. And they are less expensive.

They refer to specific strength. I don't think that istrue, CFRP is lighter for the same yield than GFRP. 

Fun fact: balsa has a higher specfic strength than titanium.
It looks like an S-glass/epoxy composite can get close to the strength to weight ratio for carbon/epoxy, but their statement is still wrong.
http://www.carbonfibertubeshop.com/tube%20properties.html

Also, your mileage may vary on that balsa fact. It may be true, but this site disagrees. If you check the source of the numbers on the Wikipedia table, you see that while Balsa is really high on the list, this is only along the grain, and it is very bad perpendicular, severely limiting its usefulness. (Relatedly, fiber direction also matters for composites, the reference above at least should be apples-to-apples for the S-glass vs carbon fiber, but there is no such thing as apples to apples for titanium and balsa.)

Titanium can have grain direction, depending how it's been worked. But the effects aren't as significant as wood or composites.

Online GWH

Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #123 on: 07/06/2017 04:11 PM »
Well they keep on posting up videos, so I'll put this here:
This is on their aerospike engine, although only the fiberglass mold.


Quote
"How far along on testing of this engine are you? Have you completed any full duration hot fire tests?"

Quote from: ARCA SPACE CORPORATION
A static fire test of the Demonstrator 3 engine will be performed just before the launch at Spaceport America. The hot fire tests of Haas 2CA engine are to be performed in both ambient pressure and vacuum, most likely in August or October of this year.


Another "who we are".  The first 20s shows some engine testing of the "Helen" engine, which is a 70% HTP engine, 3500 lbf vacuum,  about 1/3 the thrust of the stated 12,560 lbf vac for the Demonstrator 3 vehicle which also runs on 70%HTP.

Offline Davidthefat

Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #124 on: 07/06/2017 04:21 PM »
They say they'll be utilizing heated helium as the tank pressurant. Where does the heat exchanger fit into all of this?

Offline josespeck

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #125 on: 07/06/2017 06:19 PM »
HTP is also cheaper than LOX, and while it has its own handling challenges, it's less challenging from a materials standpoint than LOX.

I'm pretty sure rocket grade HTP is more expensive than LOX. 85% HTP costs $8.27/kg in a 30 kg lot, although should come down for higher volumes. Google says that LOX is $0.16/kg.

http://www.peroxidepropulsion.com/hydrogen-peroxide.php

With a propellant mass of 15,640 kg and a mixture ratio of 8.2 to 1 (the same as the British Gamma engine), that gives a HTP mass of 13,940 kg and a upper bound of the cost of $115,284.

Dead website.

Offline josespeck

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #126 on: 07/06/2017 07:28 PM »
Well they keep on posting up videos, so I'll put this here:
This is on their aerospike engine, although only the fiberglass mold.

Years ago they thought to make their fiberglass engines. I have a copy on my computer, but previously translated into Spanish, I'm sorry. I have the file from 2013.
The engine was Oxygen and Kerosene.



Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11335
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 2460
  • Likes Given: 353
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline josespeck

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #128 on: 07/07/2017 04:37 PM »
Dead website.

Here's what the website looked like from last year.

https://web.archive.org/web/20161127144408/http://www.peroxidepropulsion.com/hydrogen-peroxide.php

http://www.portaltotheuniverse.org/blogs/posts/view/68331/

In the year 2010:

Quote
The company Peroxide Propulsion in Sweden has shut down production due to a fire and serious injury to the owner Erik Bengtsson. The message on the homepage: On July 22, 2010 Peroxide Propulsion suffered a terrible accident at our production facilities in Gunnilse, Sweden. Founder and co-owner, Erik Bengtsson, was working at the plant with a routine procedure when hot hydrogen peroxide steam exploded in his face. The plant subsequently burned to the ground. All stock of propellant grade hydrogen peroxide was destroyed in the fire.
Erik is currently hospitalized and listed as stable. After being temporarily blinded his vision is returning. Peroxide Propulsion, however, will not continue operations. We ask for your understanding in this matter, and wish to extend our heartfelt thanks to all our customers these past years.Some rocket projects in the US have purchased peroxide supplies from the firm.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11335
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 2460
  • Likes Given: 353
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #129 on: 07/08/2017 07:43 AM »
In the year 2010:

That's weird. The last news update on the website was May 2014 which it was going back then. Why keep the website going for six years if the facilities burnt down? Maybe he changed his mind and restarted production anyway.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline josespeck

  • Member
  • Posts: 35
  • Liked: 5
  • Likes Given: 5
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #130 on: 07/08/2017 03:36 PM »
In the year 2010:

That's weird. The last news update on the website was May 2014 which it was going back then. Why keep the website going for six years if the facilities burnt down? Maybe he changed his mind and restarted production anyway.

Was there a German producer for Gilmour?

Offline Steven Pietrobon

  • Member
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11335
  • Adelaide, Australia
    • Steven Pietrobon's Space Archive
  • Liked: 2460
  • Likes Given: 353
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #131 on: 07/10/2017 09:30 AM »
Was there a German producer for Gilmour?

Yes. They bought 10 t of HTP from Germany for $125K. I don't know who the supplier is though.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Davidthefat

Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #132 on: 07/11/2017 04:12 AM »
Arca claiming to be "world's first flight operational aerospike rocket engine"

Too bad CSULB and Garvey had one of those flights back in '03
http://web.csulb.edu/colleges/coe/ae/rockets/aerospike/ft-1/flight-1.htm


Offline CameronD

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
  • Melbourne, Australia
    • Norton Consultants
  • Liked: 367
  • Likes Given: 271
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #133 on: 07/11/2017 07:52 AM »


At least these guys are actually doing something!!  :)

Arca claiming to be "world's first flight operational aerospike rocket engine"

Too bad CSULB and Garvey had one of those flights back in '03
http://web.csulb.edu/colleges/coe/ae/rockets/aerospike/ft-1/flight-1.htm

There's a rider in this episode stressing that their linear aerospike is to be the first "to space", presumably to counter that argument?

« Last Edit: 07/11/2017 07:59 AM by CameronD »
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline billh

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 286
  • Houston
  • Liked: 126
  • Likes Given: 97
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #134 on: 07/13/2017 10:57 PM »
The Garvey launch was an aerospike, but it was not linear. I think that's the distinction. But you're right, it didn't make it to space, either.

Online savuporo

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4836
  • Liked: 815
  • Likes Given: 291
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #135 on: 07/16/2017 01:42 AM »
Isp (SL): 230 s
Isp (vac): 314 s

Because of wonderfully convoluted presentation of all this, all of this is getting mixed up and looks borderline credible.

This is for the "Demonstrator 3" ( why 3 ? ) rocket
Quote
ARCA: We have 92s at sea level and 124s in vacuum, with a chamber pressure of 16 atm. This is enough to carry a payload of 30kg up to 100 km altitude.

70% peroxide monoprop, chamber temperature at 250C ...

Wonder what kind of catalyst pack would one need here...
Orion - the first and only manned not-too-deep-space craft

Offline ringsider

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 263
  • Liked: 119
  • Likes Given: 12
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #136 on: 07/16/2017 07:57 AM »
Latest video:-



There seem to be 3 core guys and a lot of ladies floating around in the periphery doing video and cutesy amateur work.

I don't know if I buy any of this. Basically they are just doing a lot of low-cost GRP fabrication. It takes a lot more than that to get to any kind of launch vehicle. Even the electronics are not much more than an Arduino project.

Offline CameronD

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1170
  • Melbourne, Australia
    • Norton Consultants
  • Liked: 367
  • Likes Given: 271
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #137 on: 07/17/2017 06:22 AM »
I don't know if I buy any of this. Basically they are just doing a lot of low-cost GRP fabrication. It takes a lot more than that to get to any kind of launch vehicle. Even the electronics are not much more than an Arduino project.

Well.. DP was very specific in that clip saying "it will be launched in August 2017".  That's not long to wait. :)
With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine - however, this is not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they are
going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them as they fly overhead.

Offline ChrisWilson68

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3468
  • Sunnyvale, CA
  • Liked: 2013
  • Likes Given: 2335
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #138 on: 07/17/2017 07:26 AM »
I don't know if I buy any of this. Basically they are just doing a lot of low-cost GRP fabrication. It takes a lot more than that to get to any kind of launch vehicle. Even the electronics are not much more than an Arduino project.

Well.. DP was very specific in that clip saying "it will be launched in August 2017".  That's not long to wait. :)

I have a strong suspicion we'll be waiting longer than the end of August 2017.

Offline ziceva

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
  • Bucharest
  • Liked: 6
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: ARCA Space Corporation
« Reply #139 on: 07/17/2017 02:00 PM »
Even the electronics are not much more than an Arduino project.

This week we definetly saw a Raspberry Pi ... Arduino is so yesterday ... if we are lucky next week we are going to see a Teensy also ...

On a more serious note, those really are hobby electronics that have a questionable robustness when sitting nicely on a table for more than a few hours ... when shaken and stirred during a launch, would you trust them even with the most inexpesive nanosat?
IANARS, but as an automations engineer I know that you wouldn't use such equipment on a factory floor on Earth, let alone in space ...

I would say that we should wait and see .. but ...

I have a strong suspicion we'll be waiting longer than the end of August 2017.

Like forever ...

PS. Yeah, they are my countrymen, but boy do they dissapoint ...

Tags: