Author Topic: Resource Prospector  (Read 34460 times)

Offline Astro_Zach

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Resource Prospector
« on: 05/24/2015 08:40 PM »
In a recent NASA animation, the Falcon 9 is shown to launch a mission to the moon called "Resource Prospector."

Quote
Resource Prospector (RP) is an in-situ resource utilization (ISRU) technology demonstration mission which will test extraction of oxygen, water and other volatiles from lunar soil (regolith). It will also measure mineralogical content such as silicon and light metals, like aluminum and titanium, from lunar regolith. Expanding human presence beyond low-Earth orbit to asteroids and Mars will require the maximum possible use of local materials, so-called in-situ resources, and the moon presents a unique destination to conduct robotic investigations that advance ISRU capabilities, as well as providing significant exploration and science value

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fMXWsiaEK6Q&feature=youtu.be
« Last Edit: 05/24/2015 08:41 PM by Astro_Zach »
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Offline docmordrid

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #1 on: 05/24/2015 08:45 PM »
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Offline sanman

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #2 on: 05/24/2015 09:16 PM »
What would be the mission lifespan?

Offline Mr. Scott

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #3 on: 05/24/2015 09:31 PM »
Neat.

Mission has already been done before (multiple times)!  Why?  An Apollo Mission Science Report concluded that there is no water on the moon.  It's more fun to bring your own anyway.  Nobody is going to drink 4.6 billion year old water.
« Last Edit: 06/10/2015 02:14 AM by Mr. Scott »

Offline Zed_Noir

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #4 on: 05/24/2015 09:38 PM »
Mission has already been done before (multiple times)!  Why?

Seriously, someone did an ISRU pathfinder mission on the moon already?

Offline Astro_Zach

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #5 on: 05/24/2015 09:39 PM »
What would be the mission lifespan?

Found these two PDFs.

The first one shows a nominal mission duration of what appears to be 40 hours

Looks like they're targeting 2018

http://sservi.nasa.gov/articles/nasa-looking-to-mine-water-on-the-moon-and-mars/

I got 2020 http://www.nasa.gov/resource-prospector
« Last Edit: 05/24/2015 09:43 PM by Astro_Zach »
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Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #6 on: 05/24/2015 09:42 PM »
What would be the mission lifespan?
Last I read on it was lifespan of a few days, don't think rover is designed to survive lunar night.

I would hope they choose one of the XPrize lunar landers.

Offline Mr. Scott

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #7 on: 05/24/2015 09:43 PM »
Lunokhod 1 (322 days / 6.5 miles):
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1


Lunokhod 2 (4 months / 23 miles)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2

« Last Edit: 05/24/2015 09:46 PM by Mr. Scott »

Offline symbios

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #8 on: 05/24/2015 10:07 PM »
Well, both where Russian and it was 45 YEARS ago, you would think that something has happened to upgrade the instruments during that time...?  ::)

Even if both did not apply, getting a sample from another area might be a reason by itself?
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Online JBF

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #9 on: 05/24/2015 10:08 PM »
Lunokhod 1 (322 days / 6.5 miles):
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1


Lunokhod 2 (4 months / 23 miles)
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2

Yes but since then several probes including Chandrayaan-1 and LCROSS have indicated that there is a good chance for water.
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Online Semmel

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #10 on: 05/24/2015 11:35 PM »
Lunar night is difficult because most batteries must be warm in order to be charged. They dont operate at lunar night type of temperatures. In order to charge a battery when the solar panels see light, you have to start the heater first. That can be done by directly powering the heater from the solar panels before putting aside some energy that charges.

See here for a table of different battery types and their operation temperature:
http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/whats_the_best_battery
-40 deg C is the lowest in that list. The moon is far colder when dark. Surviving is tricky and costs mass which reduces the science payload.

PS: Exciting nevertheless!

Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #11 on: 05/25/2015 07:45 PM »
Nobody is going to drink 4.6 billion year old water anyways.
Most water on Earth is older than that!

Offline Ludus

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #12 on: 05/29/2015 04:15 AM »
Nobody is going to drink 4.6 billion year old water anyways.
Most water on Earth is older than that!

Yep. The hydrogen in it is 13.8 billion years old.

Offline simonbp

Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #13 on: 05/30/2015 05:04 AM »
Most of it, but a small fraction would have been produced in fusion processes in Pop 3 & 2 stars, especially in r-process reactions that created very short-lived radionucleotides.

The oxygen in the water was probably made in a few different Pop 2 stars, as Pop 3 stars really didn't get into the CNO cycle.

Offline manboy

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #14 on: 05/30/2015 09:20 AM »
In a recent NASA animation, the Falcon 9 is shown to launch a mission to the moon called "Resource Prospector."

Quote
Resource Prospector (RP) is an in-situ resource utilization (ISRU) technology demonstration mission which will test extraction of oxygen, water and other volatiles from lunar soil (regolith). It will also measure mineralogical content such as silicon and light metals, like aluminum and titanium, from lunar regolith. Expanding human presence beyond low-Earth orbit to asteroids and Mars will require the maximum possible use of local materials, so-called in-situ resources, and the moon presents a unique destination to conduct robotic investigations that advance ISRU capabilities, as well as providing significant exploration and science value
Crazy to think that this would be the first American mission to land on the moon in over 40 years.
« Last Edit: 05/30/2015 09:22 AM by manboy »
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Offline CuddlyRocket

Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #15 on: 05/31/2015 07:19 PM »
Nobody is going to drink 4.6 billion year old water anyways.
Most water on Earth is older than that!

Yep. The hydrogen in it is 13.8 billion years old.
Most of it, but a small fraction would have been produced in fusion processes in Pop 3 & 2 stars, especially in r-process reactions that created very short-lived radionucleotides.

The oxygen in the water was probably made in a few different Pop 2 stars, as Pop 3 stars really didn't get into the CNO cycle.

Yes, the vast majority of the hydrogen and oxygen in the solar system predates its formation; but so do most of the water molecules themselves.

But the main point is that if we are going to explore and colonise the solar system the people doing it will have to be a whole lot less squeamish about recycling than many give the impression of being!

Offline docmordrid

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #16 on: 06/01/2015 08:16 AM »
Nobody is going to drink 4.6 billion year old water anyways.
Most water on Earth is older than that!

Yep. The hydrogen in it is 13.8 billion years old.
Most of it, but a small fraction would have been produced in fusion processes in Pop 3 & 2 stars, especially in r-process reactions that created very short-lived radionucleotides.

The oxygen in the water was probably made in a few different Pop 2 stars, as Pop 3 stars really didn't get into the CNO cycle.

Yes, the vast majority of the hydrogen and oxygen in the solar system predates its formation; but so do most of the water molecules themselves.

But the main point is that if we are going to explore and colonise the solar system the people doing it will have to be a whole lot less squeamish about recycling than many give the impression of being!

Orange County California is already doing 'toilet to tap.'

http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/01/world/from-toilet-to-tap-water/
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Online savuporo

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #17 on: 08/11/2015 01:46 AM »
Recent update on RP


The deck here : http://lsaworkshops.com/_assets/pdf/wednesday_section/Colaprete_LSA_2015_RP_Overview.pptx

"We are still in Phase A, performance goal is to pass SRR ( system requirements review ) this year. Launch target 2020"

Presentation links from : http://lsaworkshops.com/program/lsa-5-abstracts-and-presentations#TB_inline?inlineId=docs_O_Konek;height=700&width=750&modal=1

EDIT: i have no clue why this is in SpaceX section ? They are pretty far from locking in the launch vehicle.

Also, its interesting that HEOMD lists completing SRR for this in FY2014 and FY2015 targets, and then again in FY2016

In contrast, Mars 2020 was also scheduled for FY2014 SRR, and : SRR/MDR completed  29  October 2014, Approved  for  Phase  B  by  Agency  Program  Management  Council  on  20  May  2015. PDR-1 scheduled for September 2015.
« Last Edit: 08/11/2015 02:01 AM by savuporo »
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Online high road

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #18 on: 08/11/2015 06:33 AM »
Neat.

Mission has already been done before (multiple times)!  Why?  An Apollo Mission Science Report concluded that there is no water on the moon.  It's more fun to bring your own anyway.  Nobody is going to drink 4.6 billion year old water.

Doesn't that usually work the other way around? The longer mineral water spends in the ground, the more 'pristine' it's supposed to be. Whereas every drop in the ocean is essentially dinosaur pee, every drop of tap water is recycled waste water, and astronauts drink their own sweat and urine. Chemically speaking, there's little difference between all that.

To be clear: so the idea here is to look for hydrogen beneath the top layer of the polar regions, without having to go into the permanently shaded craters. Is that correct?

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Resource Prospector
« Reply #19 on: 08/12/2015 10:38 PM »
This is not a real mission. It's a fuzzy, ill-defined, make work project. NASA sorta penciled it in years ago and said that they would pay for the rocket and the instruments, but another partner would have to pay for the lander and rover. Nobody really stepped up to do that, and NASA did not try too hard, and so it's been in stasis forever.

My suspicion is that this is primarily a budget thing. HEOMD has people that do not have specific project assignments, but it still has to pay their salaries, so they assign them to this and call it a project. But there's no money for procurement or hiring contractors or doing anything like that.

You should see the way this is treated at the annual Lunar Exploration Analysis Group meetings--the lunar scientists there don't take it seriously.

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