Author Topic: Starlink : General Discussion - Thread 1  (Read 1217292 times)

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14158
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14046
  • Likes Given: 1392
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1320 on: 06/24/2017 06:58 pm »
I think SpaceX would be open to receiving investment from the likes of SES for the constellation, but SpaceX (with Google's help) is willing to do this alone if they have to.

And I wouldn't assume that "those who matter already know" SpaceX is going to do the constellation. SpaceX has already mentioned it, yes, but what SpaceX is attempting to do, the bandwidth per satellite, the incredibly ambitious phased array, the non-rad-hard electronics, the raw scale, the extremely low latencies, the laser interconnects, the high bandwidth and low cost per end user, and the envisioned extremely low cost of both launch and manufacture of the satellites (with ambitious electric propulsion especially for the VLEO ones), is easily ambitious enough to get basically anyone to scoff, maybe ESPECIALLY those who are deeply experienced in the industry.

Like NASA views ITS, the captains of the commsat industry still haven't stopped laughing. SpaceX is allowing them that luxury on purpose.

The scale of vertical integration is again quite unlike anything in the industry.  Not sure it would fit any better than partnering with Orbital ATK or AJR for launch business.

They plan to design, build, launch, and operate the constellation.  Not much room for teaming arrangements.

Them missing bit is local market access.

Do you really want to deal with (for example) Malaysia's department of communication, and learn to understand Malaysia's culture well enough to market there (whether B2B or B2C?) or do you want to partner with a/the local communication players, so that you provide the technology, and they provide the market interface?
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7438
  • Germany
  • Liked: 2332
  • Likes Given: 2891
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1321 on: 06/24/2017 07:49 pm »
Them missing bit is local market access.

Do you really want to deal with (for example) Malaysia's department of communication, and learn to understand Malaysia's culture well enough to market there (whether B2B or B2C?) or do you want to partner with a/the local communication players, so that you provide the technology, and they provide the market interface?

In his Seattle speech Elon Musk said explicitly that they want to cooperate with local providers to avoid the problem of local regulations. I would not take that as gospel though. When local providers are not cooperative, say in the USA, they may do it differently.

Offline meekGee

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14158
  • N. California
  • Liked: 14046
  • Likes Given: 1392
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1322 on: 06/24/2017 08:10 pm »
Them missing bit is local market access.

Do you really want to deal with (for example) Malaysia's department of communication, and learn to understand Malaysia's culture well enough to market there (whether B2B or B2C?) or do you want to partner with a/the local communication players, so that you provide the technology, and they provide the market interface?

In his Seattle speech Elon Musk said explicitly that they want to cooperate with local providers to avoid the problem of local regulations. I would not take that as gospel though. When local providers are not cooperative, say in the USA, they may do it differently.

Yup.  So this basically gives the SESs of the world good reason to work with SpaceX, and for SpaceX to work with them - so they're not "undercutting their own customers".
ABCD - Always Be Counting Down

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1323 on: 06/24/2017 08:21 pm »
SES isn't a local provider though. Don't they themselves work with local providers?
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6334
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 4207
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1324 on: 06/24/2017 08:34 pm »
SES isn't a local provider though. Don't they themselves work with local providers?

6 months after the Google investment. Google Fiber bought WebPass. 1 month later the constellation inventor, MK, moved from Google to SpaceX.

Methinks Google Fiber/Webpass may be that local deliverer.

http://www.businessinsider.com/webpass-high-speed-internet-review-2016-12

Quote
Based in San Francisco, Webpass focuses on providing blazing fast internet connections for residential and commercial buildings in the US using point-to-point wireless technology.
« Last Edit: 06/24/2017 08:35 pm by docmordrid »
DM

Offline DAZ

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 162
  • Everett WA
  • Liked: 165
  • Likes Given: 1
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1325 on: 06/24/2017 09:40 pm »
Them missing bit is local market access.

Do you really want to deal with (for example) Malaysia's department of communication, and learn to understand Malaysia's culture well enough to market there (whether B2B or B2C?) or do you want to partner with a/the local communication players, so that you provide the technology, and they provide the market interface?

In his Seattle speech Elon Musk said explicitly that they want to cooperate with local providers to avoid the problem of local regulations. I would not take that as gospel though. When local providers are not cooperative, say in the USA, they may do it differently.

I think, with EM was referring to is negotiating what is commonly called landing rights.  These aren't for airplanes or even rockets.  It is the local countries regulatory authority to operate radiofrequency equipment that receive/transmit signals to satellites.  If SpaceX is granted FCC authority that gives them the equivalent of landing rights in the USA.  Part of this whole process is to get permission to use these frequencies worldwide.  But just having worldwide authorization to use these frequencies doesn't mean that you have permission in an individual country.  For that, you need to negotiate landing rights.

Online gongora

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10205
  • US
  • Liked: 13885
  • Likes Given: 5933
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1326 on: 06/24/2017 10:41 pm »
I think, with EM was referring to is negotiating what is commonly called landing rights.  These aren't for airplanes or even rockets.  It is the local countries regulatory authority to operate radiofrequency equipment that receive/transmit signals to satellites.  If SpaceX is granted FCC authority that gives them the equivalent of landing rights in the USA.  Part of this whole process is to get permission to use these frequencies worldwide.  But just having worldwide authorization to use these frequencies doesn't mean that you have permission in an individual country.  For that, you need to negotiate landing rights.

In one of his articles Peter B de Selding speculated that none of these proposed constellations are likely to get landing rights in China or India.  Getting landing rights around the world is going to be a huge pain.

Offline ZachF

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1610
  • Immensely complex & high risk
  • NH, USA, Earth
  • Liked: 2604
  • Likes Given: 531
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1327 on: 07/03/2017 06:04 pm »
Something a low-latency 4425 satellite constellation could do very well?

Manage a global cloud computer/swarm intelligence for millions of autonomous electric vehicles...

Just saying...
« Last Edit: 07/03/2017 06:09 pm by ZachF »
artist, so take opinions expressed above with a well-rendered grain of salt...
https://www.instagram.com/artzf/

Offline Ludus

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Liked: 1255
  • Likes Given: 1017
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1328 on: 07/06/2017 02:21 am »
I think, with EM was referring to is negotiating what is commonly called landing rights.  These aren't for airplanes or even rockets.  It is the local countries regulatory authority to operate radiofrequency equipment that receive/transmit signals to satellites.  If SpaceX is granted FCC authority that gives them the equivalent of landing rights in the USA.  Part of this whole process is to get permission to use these frequencies worldwide.  But just having worldwide authorization to use these frequencies doesn't mean that you have permission in an individual country.  For that, you need to negotiate landing rights.

In one of his articles Peter B de Selding speculated that none of these proposed constellations are likely to get landing rights in China or India.  Getting landing rights around the world is going to be a huge pain.

Musk has made a specialty of going into businesses considered a huge pain. Bank transfers and electronic payments, building cars and selling them all over the world, building rockets are all intensely regulated fields dominated by skilled incumbents. So is digging tunnels under cities.

It's questionable that getting rights to provide Internet services is especially difficult compared to these other activities.

Offline Robotbeat

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 39270
  • Minnesota
  • Liked: 25240
  • Likes Given: 12115
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1329 on: 07/06/2017 02:48 am »
Betcha SpaceX could get landing rights in India. China is tough due to censorship.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline watermod

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 519
  • Liked: 177
  • Likes Given: 153
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1330 on: 07/06/2017 03:43 am »
Betcha SpaceX could get landing rights in India. China is tough due to censorship.
Odds on all Tesla's coming with it built in.
Then Musk can say:  "We can't customize Tesla for your market.  This network  is an integral part of AutoDrive and Support."
 

Offline Ludus

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Liked: 1255
  • Likes Given: 1017
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1331 on: 07/06/2017 05:12 am »
Something a low-latency 4425 satellite constellation could do very well?

Manage a global cloud computer/swarm intelligence for millions of autonomous electric vehicles...

Just saying...

Id be kinda surprised if every Tesla didn't start having a phased array antenna embedded well before the Constellation is even up and running. Might not work well with a glass roof so maybe under the frunk.

Offline docmordrid

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6334
  • Michigan
  • Liked: 4207
  • Likes Given: 2
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1332 on: 07/06/2017 04:55 pm »
Something a low-latency 4425 satellite constellation could do very well?

Manage a global cloud computer/swarm intelligence for millions of autonomous electric vehicles...

Just saying...

Id be kinda surprised if every Tesla didn't start having a phased array antenna embedded well before the Constellation is even up and running. Might not work well with a glass roof so maybe under the frunk.

Tesla is supposedly negotiating to build vehicles in the Shanghai region, so that may be one of the topics under discussion.

The Verge....
« Last Edit: 07/06/2017 04:56 pm by docmordrid »
DM

Offline Ludus

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1744
  • Liked: 1255
  • Likes Given: 1017
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1333 on: 07/11/2017 06:18 am »
http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-purchases-xcom-domain-name-2017-7

SpaceX Communications or XCom would be a good name for a global internet services company. Pretty close to the CommX people often use as placeholder name here.
« Last Edit: 07/11/2017 06:22 am by Ludus »

Offline Eerie

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
  • Liked: 208
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1334 on: 07/11/2017 06:22 am »
Betcha SpaceX could get landing rights in India. China is tough due to censorship.
Odds on all Tesla's coming with it built in.
Then Musk can say:  "We can't customize Tesla for your market.  This network  is an integral part of AutoDrive and Support."
 

Then Chinese government can ask Tesla to go to hell, like they do with Google.

Offline guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7438
  • Germany
  • Liked: 2332
  • Likes Given: 2891
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1335 on: 07/11/2017 06:36 am »

Then Chinese government can ask Tesla to go to hell, like they do with Google.

They can. But then they may like the constellation. It would help to bring high speed internet to vast areas and they will take quite a while to build one themselves. They would demand that any traffic be routed through access points within China and SpaceX would comply.

Offline Nomadd

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8839
  • Lower 48
  • Liked: 60430
  • Likes Given: 1305
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1336 on: 07/11/2017 04:32 pm »
 China is China. The thing I think will change the world more is decent, inexpensive high speed access in Sudan and and Congo and the Amazon and places like that. And, the fact that the people in the denied territories will know it's available, with their governments being the reason they can't have it might be no small thing.
 As for China and such, I bet Guckyfan has the answer. They just need a good router to filter as they see fit.
 
Those who danced were thought to be quite insane by those who couldn't hear the music.

Offline drzerg

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 117
  • Kyiv
  • Liked: 56
  • Likes Given: 24
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1337 on: 07/11/2017 10:25 pm »
just make it free on china territory and see what happens.

Offline Chris_Pi

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 209
  • Wisconsin
  • Liked: 93
  • Likes Given: 100
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1338 on: 07/11/2017 11:18 pm »
That would seriously annoy China at best, And possibly provide a bunch of live-fire practice with whatever anti-satellite systems they can think up. The US probably prefers they don't get that experience, So permits for launches wouldn't happen.

And ground stations are still needed, hard to get if they're considered contraband, and findable if they transmit at all. Can't really force the issue for several reasons. CommX will be in China when and how China decides to let them in.

Offline Eerie

  • Member
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 858
  • Liked: 208
  • Likes Given: 25
Re: SpaceX - now a satellite manufacturer (Starlink)
« Reply #1339 on: 07/12/2017 07:43 am »
China may prefer to build their own Internet constellation, anyway.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
0