Author Topic: Beer Bet Tracker: SpaceX's Long Term Success  (Read 35819 times)

Online guckyfan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6119
  • Germany
  • Liked: 1506
  • Likes Given: 1247
Re: Beer Bet Tracker: SpaceX's Long Term Success
« Reply #100 on: 07/17/2017 04:53 PM »
Run separate methane lines. Two separate umbilicals, both feeding off the same LOX line and of RP-1 or methane for the two types of stage. Have two different arms, one of which engages or have an arm for the methane stage with possible adapters for the RP-1 stage.

A methane first stage would need a complete different TEL. But swapping the TEL out is not that hard with two cranes.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 30805
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 9048
  • Likes Given: 292
Re: Beer Bet Tracker: SpaceX's Long Term Success
« Reply #101 on: 07/17/2017 05:09 PM »
No need. Just tee off the plumbing that's currently handling the RP-1. Then you just activate whichever branch you need at the time, RP-1 or methane.

They can't share the same piping.  One is room temp and the other is cryogenic.  Also, methane would freeze any residual RP-1.

Offline Lar

  • Fan boy at large
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7870
  • Saw Gemini live on TV
  • A large LEGO storage facility ... in Michigan
  • Liked: 4687
  • Likes Given: 3169
Re: Beer Bet Tracker: SpaceX's Long Term Success
« Reply #102 on: 07/17/2017 05:50 PM »
First time I've read this amusing thread. I would like to create a bet myself. But first conditions. I bet on my end a dinner & drink(s) out to a bar/restaurant of your choice where we go together and I pay $50 of your tab. You see I want to pay my bet in person and if I loose I get to spend an evening talking with a fellow space enthusiast. Also assuming there are more than 3 takers that the bet is limited to 3 and I get to choose who I take the bets up with. Payment will not be immediate as I will have to schedule a vacation to your area. If I win I will still go to that restaurant with you only you pay up to $50 for my bill.

On to the bet. I believe SpaceX will build and fly at least one Raptor powered second stage on a Falcon Heavy before Jan 1, 2020. I expect lots of takers, I know this is definitely a long shot.

You should clarify whether any Raptor-powered orbital vehicle mounted on top of the Falcon's first stage counts.

Just to make sure that if that hypothetical vehicle is not a classical "second stage" but rather an integrated vehicle, the outcome of the bet is unambiguous.

I hadn't thought of that. If you are talking about an integrated second stage and orbital vehicle then yes it would count. I've been told (mostly by Jim) that supplying methane for second stage at 39A is not possible. Trying to get clarification on why has no response, I assume it has to do with TEL possibly no room for extra pipes. I look at the TEL and I think, my god this is huge! and can't imagine insufficient space.

If a FH launched with a conventional RP-1 second stage but the payload was something methalox powered and Raptor engined, would that count as a win ( built and flew at least one Raptor second stage) or a loss (it technically isn't a second stage, unlike an integrated vehicle) under the revised terms of this bet? If it's a loss, I'd take on one of these 3 bets, as I don't see SpaceX doing a real Raptor S2 for F9 or FH, ever.  If it's a win, pass, as I could see them doing this for test purposes.
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline envy887

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2152
  • Liked: 940
  • Likes Given: 609
Re: Beer Bet Tracker: SpaceX's Long Term Success
« Reply #103 on: 07/17/2017 06:23 PM »
Run separate methane lines. Two separate umbilicals, both feeding off the same LOX line and of RP-1 or methane for the two types of stage. Have two different arms, one of which engages or have an arm for the methane stage with possible adapters for the RP-1 stage.

A methane first stage would need a complete different TEL. But swapping the TEL out is not that hard with two cranes.

Swapping the TEL out might be easier than using adapters, running more pluming, adding arms, etc to the exiting TEL. Not to mention that they could build a second TEL without interfering with the current launch cadence to modify the existing one.

That could be the simplest way to add methane vehicle capability to 39A.

Tags: