Author Topic: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2019  (Read 41571 times)

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #40 on: 10/13/2015 04:53 PM »
Tweet from IAC:

Peter B. de Selding ‏@pbdes · Oct 12
China space admin chief Xu: Lunar sample return mission in 2017, lander on far side in 2018, lander/rover combination in 2020.#IAC2015

(de Selding is with spacenews.com)

So the sequence can now be extended to CE6, with the last mission a repeat of CE3, but presumably intended to fix the longevity problem for Yutu and maybe fly different instruments.

I think the statement about CE4 verifying technologies for CE5 is out of date.  That was mooted a year or more ago but doesn't make sense now.  In that scheme CE4 would have tested the sample acquisition system.

« Last Edit: 10/13/2015 04:56 PM by Phil Stooke »

Offline Kryten

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #41 on: 10/13/2015 05:00 PM »
 So what is Chang'e 4 carrying, if it's no longer a lander/rover combination?

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #42 on: 10/13/2015 05:22 PM »
Don't know yet.  In the past there was talk of a small radio telescope.  It might also do local analysis of composition with APXS on an arm, IR spectroscopy etc.

Offline Blackstar

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #43 on: 10/14/2015 05:58 PM »
I saw his tweet and was intrigued by that. He does not say that the Chinese specifically ruled out a rover for CE-4. It was included in some previous comments. But it sorta makes sense to not include it. They're going to have enough issues operating on the far side via relay spacecraft without having to control a rover. So put the rover on a later mission.

I was hoping that they would try to target CE-6 for the lunar farside as well. A sample from the South Pole-Aitken Basin would be a major science accomplishment. It is prioritized in the U.S. planetary science decadal survey and lunar scientists think it is pretty important. If China grabbed it, they'd be checking off a major lunar science goal.


Offline Dalhousie

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #44 on: 10/14/2015 10:21 PM »
Does this imply that it will fly first?  Or is it just being used as a terrestrial testbed prior to its own flight later?

The Chang'e-5 Lunar sample return mission is flying first in 2017. After the successful landing of Chang'e-3, there was some speculation that the Chang'e-4 backup mission might be cancelled. However, it was later confirmed that it will be flying in 2018, targeted for a far side landing.

That's is my understanding also, however the language in Blackstar's link seemed ambiguous WRT timing, possibly a translation issue
"There is nobody who is a bigger fan of sending robots to Mars than me... But I believe firmly that the best, the most comprehensive, the most successful exploration will be done by humans" Steve Squyres

Offline luhai167

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #45 on: 10/16/2015 10:19 PM »
Here is the news report from IAC. CE-4 will go  on the far side and will fly after CE5.


http://www.chinanews.com/sh/2015/10-09/7561057.shtml

CE-5 in ~2017, sample collection aimed to be 2 KG
CE-4 relay sat in late 2018, mission length 3 years aimed to support CE-4 Lander.
CE-4 Lander in ~2020, aimed at farside of the moon. May carry low frequency radio astronomy module.

edit: there is speculation on the 9ifly that if CE-5 is successful, CE-6 may be squeezed between CE-4 relay sat and CE-4 lander for a farside sample return, while CE-4 will focus on radio astronomy. Doing so will take full advantage of the relay sat.

http://bbs.9ifly.cn/thread-5819-29-2.html
« Last Edit: 10/17/2015 03:36 AM by luhai167 »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #46 on: 09/16/2016 10:20 AM »
Launch in second half of 2017.

"China also aims to send the Chang'e-5 probe to the moon and return with lunar samples in the second half of 2017, and to land a probe on Mars by 2021. "

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2016-09/16/c_135689907.htm
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Phillip Clark

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #47 on: 09/17/2016 01:34 PM »
Much earlier in this thread I was mentioning that I thought that the mission profile for Chang'E 5 was over-complicated and there were suggestions that this was because the profile could be adapted for either a Mars sample return mission or - using spacecraft on a totally different scale - for a piloted lunar landing mission.

My thoughts about the over-complicated profile still remain and I am worried that this might be the first major spacecraft (rather than launch vehicle) failure in the Chinese space programme.   Let us hope that I am being too pessimistic of course!

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #48 on: 09/19/2016 07:02 AM »
Well, the simpler Soviet approach was only able to return at most 170 g of material. I believe Chang'e 5 is aiming to return at least 2 kg of material, which is possible due to the use of the more complicated Lunar orbit rendezvous mission.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online redliox

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #49 on: 09/19/2016 07:08 AM »
Well, the simpler Soviet approach was only able to return at most 170 g of material. I believe Chang'e 5 is aiming to return at least 2 kg of material, which is possible due to the use of the more complicated Lunar orbit rendezvous mission.

If they can get a sample in the solid kilogram range I'd tip my hat to them for their efforts.  The next trick will be seeing what they'll do next after a LSR.
"Let the trails lead where they may, I will follow."
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Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #50 on: 09/19/2016 12:02 PM »
"at most 170 g of material."

Also, only from a very restricted region of the lunar surface because of the dynamics of the simple direct-to-Earth trajectory.  The Chinese approach should allow sample collection from a much larger region, if not the entire lunar surface.

Offline plutogno

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #51 on: 09/19/2016 06:24 PM »
The Chinese approach should allow sample collection from a much larger region, if not the entire lunar surface.

Exactly. and in fact they have hinted at the fact that CE-6 may return samples from the poles

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #52 on: 09/20/2016 03:53 PM »
I have seen that stated in Chinese media, but I suspect it is a misunderstanding, also common in western media, of 'South Pole - Aitken' (SPA).  The Chang'E 4 site is almost certainly in the Apollo basin in SPA, but I note that at:

http://english.cas.cn/newsroom/news/201606/t20160615_164411.shtml

The headline says 'south pole' even though the article says 'Aitken basin'.

I think CE6, if it flies, will also go to SPA, meaning the Apollo basin in SPA or somewhere near it.  I have seen other Chinese references to follow-on (post-CE6) missions to the poles, but I think they are for the next decade.

Offline Satori

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Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #54 on: 10/27/2016 07:47 PM »
https://chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/Deepspace/CE-5/CE-5.html

Nice view of the drill structure here.  Presumably there are monitoring cameras, but it's not obvious where they are.

Offline plutogno

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #55 on: 11/05/2016 01:25 PM »
Chang'e 5 Wows Zhuhai Airshow

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #56 on: 11/06/2016 09:49 PM »
Some screen grabs.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #57 on: 01/01/2017 09:16 PM »
https://www.chinaspaceflight.com/satellite/Deepspace/CE-5/CE-5.html

Some new images of the CE5 return capsule being prepared.  I am still waiting for news on the landing site location... maybe that will come at LPSC in March.

Offline Endeavour126

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Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Chang'e-5 lunar sample return, CZ-5 - Wenchang - 2017
« Reply #59 on: 01/04/2017 09:30 PM »
Well, 'around' December.


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