Author Topic: Moon Express MX-1  (Read 108788 times)

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #80 on: 08/23/2016 07:22 pm »
Would this lander be big enough to investigate lunar polars for water. eg land in shadow crate and survive long enough to determine state water is in. This may be simple as scanner or more complex like robotic arm and means of testing sample.

I guessing a life measured in hours.


Alternatively they land at the top of a crater and send down a rover that keeps coming back to recharge its batteries.

Offline Lar

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #81 on: 08/23/2016 09:49 pm »
Something doesn't add up.

Their mission is supposed to cost $10 million -- $5 million for the launcher and $5 million for the lander.  And the article says that they have bought two more launch vehicles and have options on two more.  But their first launch attempt is supposed to be toward the end of 2017.  The end of 2017 is the deadline for the GLXP.  So, if their first attempt fails, how can they possibly have time to build another lander and launch it before the end of 2017?  If they really have two more launch vehicles as a contingency, they would need to build two more landers as a contingency, pushing their costs to $30 million.  And even then, if there's a failure on the first mission, there's a good chance it will take a while to figure out what went wrong and/or fix it -- whether it's the launch vehicle or the lander.  So they've inflated their costs by a factor of 3 just to have only modest chances of being able to succeed if the first mission fails.  And, it puts their costs over the total amount they could win even if they do succeed.

S I doubt they really bought two additional launch vehicles as a contingency for the GLXP.  They want to go into business post-GLXP with more lunar missions, so maybe they put down deposits on additional launch vehicles for that.


I would believe deposits on launches rather than outright purchases... probably a reporter bobble. But I think on the lander front, building a second copy of something doesn't require the R&D that the first copy does, so it's very possible that they can build landers 2 and 3 for a lot less than lander 1....
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Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #82 on: 08/24/2016 07:41 am »
Would this lander be big enough to investigate lunar polars for water. eg land in shadow crate and survive long enough to determine state water is in. This may be simple as scanner or more complex like robotic arm and means of testing sample.

I guessing a life measured in hours.


Alternatively they land at the top of a crater and send down a rover that keeps coming back to recharge its batteries.

MX-1 is designed to be the lightest-possible lander that can barely meet the requirements of the GLXP.  I don't think it's going to be able to land so precisely it can end up at the top edge of a particular crater.  And it wouldn't be able to carry a rover that could drive down a crater wall and back up.

It's also not going to be able to carry any significant instruments.

MX-1 won't do science.  It's not designed to do that.  Give the designers credit -- if it could carry out science missions, it's over-designed for meeting the GLXP requirements, so it's more expensive and massive (implying more launch cost) than it should be.

If it's successful, and if someone pays for science missions, MX-2, MX-3, etc. could do science missions.  Not MX-1.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #83 on: 08/26/2016 07:27 pm »
Moon express future plans including returning lunar samples to earth. This company may have capsule to do this
http://terminalvelocityaero.com

Here are some rough guesses on this return vehicles. ISP 280. 55kg wet would deliver 20kg(vehicle + capsule) to TEI (2.8km/s).

NB the Electron lander might just be able to do sample return if it was delivered to TLI on a more capable LV with earth departure stage.

Offline Kryten

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #84 on: 09/28/2016 08:23 pm »
 Celestis are to have a memorial payload on the first MX-1 flight;
http://www.memorialspaceflights.com/launch-schedule/luna-02-flight/#mission-details

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #85 on: 11/01/2016 05:05 pm »
Synopsis:

Added: Nov 01, 2016 7:59 am

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA) Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate (HEOMD) is seeking information on the availability of small payloads that could be delivered to the Moon as early as the 2017-2020 timeframe using U.S. commercial lunar cargo transportation service providers. 



https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=cbcd56e6afbd7dfad1ef9cd0fb52b6f7&tab=core&_cview=0


Nice to see NASA make use of these XPrize landers. At $10M for MX1, a lunar mission has never been cheaper. With <10kg payload to work with, science teams and their engineers are going need to be resourceful. Astrobotic lander can deliver few hundred KGS but mission costs are likely to be around $100m.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #86 on: 11/01/2016 05:11 pm »
Synopsis:

Added: Nov 01, 2016 7:59 am

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration's (NASA) Human Exploration and Operations Mission Directorate (HEOMD) is seeking information on the availability of small payloads that could be delivered to the Moon as early as the 2017-2020 timeframe using U.S. commercial lunar cargo transportation service providers.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=cbcd56e6afbd7dfad1ef9cd0fb52b6f7&tab=core&_cview=0

Nice to see NASA make use of these XPrize landers. At $10M for MX1, a lunar mission has never been cheaper. With <10kg payload to work with, science teams and their engineers are going need to be resourceful. Astrobotic lander can deliver few hundred KGS but mission costs are likely to be around $100m.

I agree that it's great to see NASA pursuing this.  But saying "At $10M for MX1, a lunar mission has never been cheaper." is premature.  None of these companies claiming they will land on the moon has actually flown anything anywhere.  I hope one or more of them succeeds, but we need some evidence before declaring the age of private moon missions has arrived.

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #87 on: 11/01/2016 06:55 pm »
If MX1 is delivered to GTO or even better TL1 by more capable LV, it should land with even fuel to do few lunar hops. This would allow it to investigate a few craters for water. 

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #88 on: 11/01/2016 07:26 pm »
I understand that a mid-latitude site is more likely than a polar site for the first landing.  Tycho has been suggested as a target - within sight of Surveyor 7.

The second mission is supposed to go to Malapert Mountain to deploy the ILOA telescope.

Any other science will be on later missions, assuming they can make it all work.

Offline Davidthefat

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #89 on: 11/01/2016 08:57 pm »
Doesn't Electron have an option for a 3rd stage kick motor? Are the payload capability figures all considered with the utilization of the optional motor?

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #90 on: 11/02/2016 04:46 pm »
Doesn't Electron have an option for a 3rd stage kick motor? Are the payload capability figures all considered with the utilization of the optional motor?
I haven't read anything about a 3rd stage option. It would allow for earth escape of smallsats  or cubesats. Moon express could use modified version of their lander as 3rd stage.

Offline savuporo

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #91 on: 11/02/2016 07:09 pm »
Doesn't Electron have an option for a 3rd stage kick motor? Are the payload capability figures all considered with the utilization of the optional motor?
They were talking about electric propulsion 3rd stage
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Offline Lars-J

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #92 on: 05/04/2017 06:55 pm »
Apparently Naveen Jain (co-founder of Moon Express) decided to do some trash talking about Musk/SpaceX and Bezos/Blue Origin.  ;D ;D

https://www.geekwire.com/2017/new-space-race-includes-a-little-earthbound-trash-talking/

Quote
“I love Elon and I love Jeff, and both are our neighbors at Cape Canaveral, so we are a good neighborhood there,” he said. “But – truth be told – they are all underachievers and unambitious people.”
...
“They are all stuck in low Earth orbit so far – and we are going to the moon this year,” Jain said. “We are the only company in the universe that has permission to leave Earth orbit and land on the moon. So when we talk about underachievers, that’s where we put Elon and Jeff. But someday, when they can land on the moon, they can come talk to me about it.”

Truth be told, Moon Express hasn’t yet put anything in space, let alone on the moon. It’s relying on Rocket Lab’s low-cost Electron launch vehicle to send up its lander, but the Electron still has to face flight testing.

Offline Space Ghost 1962

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #93 on: 05/04/2017 07:42 pm »
Heard this also a few years back from Moon Express investor Barney Pell.

(He was doing it when we discussed a deal he did a handshake on. He never honored the handshake. Blew the deal off.)

Don't deal with Barney anymore. He also says he's not focused on space anymore. Even though he said he came from NASA.

Think that Electron won't fly soon, and someone thinks they can declare it a victory and move on.

So ego wise they have landed on the moon in their heads, and reality/Musk has let them down by not offering a cheap flight. Dumb.

Offline high road

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #94 on: 05/05/2017 07:19 am »
That's hilarious. I feel another 'welcome to the club' tweet in the making when they are eventually outclassed as well.

Is there a video of this? Maybe they said this ironically. Although the video in the article doesn't look like they are that self aware.
« Last Edit: 05/05/2017 07:28 am by high road »

Offline TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #95 on: 05/19/2017 10:53 am »
2kg Cuberover being developed by Astrobotic with NASA funding.

https://www.newsledge.com/astrobotic-working-on-cuberover/

A 2kg rover would be perfect for MX1E especially as its payload is limited to about 10kg. With 2kg there is not a lot of room for science instruments but even a roving high res camera would be useful. At around $10M for a mission it is low cost scouting option.

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #96 on: 05/26/2017 08:17 am »
Seems they are going straight to TLI! There might be a good chance MX-1 will miss the Moon entirely, like the early US missions that tried this technique.

As the goal is to reach transfer orbit, “it is an easier mission for us. It’s an easier trajectory for us than Sun-synchronous, so it is very simple with no additional burn needed to circularize the orbit.”

http://aviationweek.com/space/rocket-lab-well-ahead-after-initial-launch-test
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Svetoslav

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #97 on: 05/26/2017 09:22 am »
Uh... this is behind a paywall, is there a mirror?

Offline Star One

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Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #98 on: 05/26/2017 09:59 am »
Uh... this is behind a paywall, is there a mirror?

Not a paywall as it's free to register on their site. I believe they do this precisely to stop people mirroring their content.
« Last Edit: 05/26/2017 10:00 am by Star One »

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #99 on: 07/12/2017 02:26 pm »
Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust 16m16 minutes ago

Moon Express shows off a full-sized model of its MX-1E lunar lander in D.C.; company CEO Bob Richards at left.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/885138511069945857

Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust 14m14 minutes ago

Richards says company is on schedule to launch its first spacecraft by the end of the year, pending availability of the Electron launcher.
https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/885139218351222785

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