Author Topic: Moon Express MX-1  (Read 108817 times)

Offline catdlr

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #60 on: 04/23/2016 07:40 pm »
Moon Express Rocket Engine Tests

MoonExpress

Published on Apr 23, 2016
To land a rover on the Moon, you need a lander. To land a lander on the Moon, you need rocket engines.

This video shows a series of rocket engine test firings during our propulsion developments at Moon Express.

Our primary choice of propulsion technology for our MX series of spacecraft/landers uses a green fuel combination of hydrogen peroxide (HTP) combined with a non-toxic hydrocarbon propellant such as kerosene (RP1). The exhaust bi-product of HTP fuels is primarily super-heated steam.

Moon Express will be powered by steam engines going to the Moon.

In thrust we trust.

Company Site: http://www.moonexpress.com/

YouTube Video Location: https://www.youtube.com/user/MoonExpressInc

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Offline Lar

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #61 on: 04/23/2016 11:26 pm »
It even looks kinda steampunkish
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline catdlr

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #62 on: 06/07/2016 09:07 pm »
U.S. government close to approving private moon mission

LA Times Article  June 7, 2016

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-moon-express-20160606-snap-story.html

Quote
The MX-1 lander, which Moon Express said is capable of carrying scientific and commercial payloads, is set to blast off in 2017 on Los Angeles-based Rocket Lab’s Electron rocket. The rocket is awaiting its first flight.
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Offline Star One

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Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #63 on: 08/03/2016 04:02 pm »
Now approved.

Moon Express wins U.S. government approval for lunar lander mission

http://spacenews.com/moon-express-wins-u-s-government-approval-for-lunar-lander-mission/

Also new logo & website.

http://www.moonexpress.com
« Last Edit: 08/03/2016 07:52 pm by Star One »

Offline Steven Pietrobon

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #64 on: 08/04/2016 06:39 am »
Also new logo & website.

http://www.moonexpress.com

Wow, that website is an exercise in minimalism! Attached is their Press Kit.
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Offline Jarnis

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #65 on: 08/04/2016 08:00 am »
I would have far more confidence in this if they'd have an actual flown booster for their mission before they worry about the paperwork.

Unless they going full yolo and launching this on the very first Electron. If/when it is ready in 2017 (not holding my breath, but I must admit I know very little of their project)

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #66 on: 08/04/2016 10:00 am »
I would have far more confidence in this if they'd have an actual flown booster for their mission before they worry about the paperwork.

Unless they going full yolo and launching this on the very first Electron. If/when it is ready in 2017 (not holding my breath, but I must admit I know very little of their project)
The Electron is scheduled to have its maiden flight this year. They have a full manifest of missions for next 2 years, where ME fit in that I don't know, but a failure will surely set them back 3-6months.  I'm personally hoping they don't have any failures, unfortunately LV history says a failure in first few missions is likely.

« Last Edit: 08/04/2016 10:04 am by TrevorMonty »

Offline Jarnis

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #67 on: 08/04/2016 11:37 am »
Good to know - hadn't followed it that closely. Guess it is then plausible, assuming the early flights go fine.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #68 on: 08/04/2016 04:09 pm »
They have a chance, even if it's a small chance.

I really wish they would dial back on the hype, though.  For example, in their press kit they highlight this quote by their co-founder, filling an entire page with just this one sentence: "IN 15 YEARS, THE MOON WILL BE AN IMPORTANT PART OF EARTH’S ECONOMY, AND POTENTIALLY OUR SECOND HOME.  IMAGINE THAT."  That's so clearly not true that it casts doubt on their judgement.  If they really think in 15 years the moon will be a significant part of the Earth's economy, they're delusional about that, so are they also delusional about their chances of getting MX-1 to the Moon?  And if they don't really believe it, then they're lying, so in that case what else are they lying about?

Offline Phil Stooke

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #69 on: 08/04/2016 04:28 pm »
Yes, it's too much hype.  But that's how you raise money.

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #70 on: 08/04/2016 04:52 pm »
Yes, it's too much hype.  But that's how you raise money.

Maybe from some investors.  But it can also turn off other potential investors.

We'll have to see how this approach works for Moon Express.

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #71 on: 08/05/2016 08:10 pm »
The MX-1 is not just limited to landing on moon it is also space craft which can act as lunar orbiter with a significantly larger payload. This orbiter mission could also place a few cubesats in lunar orbit.

Alternatively in lower cost version act as earth departure stage to Mars or beyond for large cubesats ie 6-12U. The launch costs for these missions could be well under $10M, really depends how much MX want to charge.

NB to land on moon it will need a DV of 5-6km/s.
« Last Edit: 08/05/2016 08:15 pm by TrevorMonty »

Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #72 on: 08/05/2016 08:47 pm »
The MX-1 is not just limited to landing on moon it is also space craft which can act as lunar orbiter with a significantly larger payload. This orbiter mission could also place a few cubesats in lunar orbit.

Alternatively in lower cost version act as earth departure stage to Mars or beyond for large cubesats ie 6-12U. The launch costs for these missions could be well under $10M, really depends how much MX want to charge.

NB to land on moon it will need a DV of 5-6km/s.

Getting cubesats into lunar orbit or into interplanetary space is exciting, but I'm not convinced something like MX-1 is the way to go for that.  I'm more excited about the small ion thrusters being developed for cubesats -- they would be much cheaper and require much less mass be launched into LEO.  The cubesat would have its own SEP thruster and slowly spiral out from LEO and spiral in to lunar orbit or out on a trip to another planet.  That's much more in the spirit of cubesats than having a heavy (by cubesat standards) MX-1-style Earth departure stage.


Online TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #73 on: 08/05/2016 09:54 pm »
This is link to CAT plasma thruster about the only cubesat propulsion system that I know of capable of >3km/s (7km/s?). Still a while away from flying. There are some systems close to 3km/s, may do earth escape but leaves nothing in tank for mission.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35143.msg1227561.msg#1227561

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #74 on: 08/06/2016 02:28 am »
This is link to CAT plasma thruster about the only cubesat propulsion system that I know of capable of >3km/s (7km/s?). Still a while away from flying. There are some systems close to 3km/s, may do earth escape but leaves nothing in tank for mission.

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=35143.msg1227561.msg#1227561

It looks like the University of Michigan has licensed Phase Four to manufacture the CAT thruster.
 ΔV 0.2 - 8km/sec
http://www.phasefour.io/cat-engine.html

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #75 on: 08/22/2016 05:04 pm »
Article on MX mission with some useful lander information.

http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/08/20/its-official-in-2017-we-begin-mining-the-moon.aspx?source=isesitlnk0000001&mrr=1.00

"After seven years of crunching numbers, the solution Moon Express came up with was to build its lander in-house, using lightweight carbon-composite materials, permitting use of a smaller rocket to climb out of Earth's gravity well. Of the lander's 495-pound weight, 90% will be kerosene and hydrogen peroxide (fuel for the third stage of the mission, from Earth to Moon), and about 5% will be payload.

And yes, the entire cost will be $10 million for the first mission -- less than $5 million each for the lander and for the Electron rocket to launch it. Additional missions may be needed if the first attempt fails, though, and against that contingency, Moon Express has already bought two more Electron rockets, and has options on two others."



Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #76 on: 08/23/2016 04:53 am »
Something doesn't add up.

Their mission is supposed to cost $10 million -- $5 million for the launcher and $5 million for the lander.  And the article says that they have bought two more launch vehicles and have options on two more.  But their first launch attempt is supposed to be toward the end of 2017.  The end of 2017 is the deadline for the GLXP.  So, if their first attempt fails, how can they possibly have time to build another lander and launch it before the end of 2017?  If they really have two more launch vehicles as a contingency, they would need to build two more landers as a contingency, pushing their costs to $30 million.  And even then, if there's a failure on the first mission, there's a good chance it will take a while to figure out what went wrong and/or fix it -- whether it's the launch vehicle or the lander.  So they've inflated their costs by a factor of 3 just to have only modest chances of being able to succeed if the first mission fails.  And, it puts their costs over the total amount they could win even if they do succeed.

S I doubt they really bought two additional launch vehicles as a contingency for the GLXP.  They want to go into business post-GLXP with more lunar missions, so maybe they put down deposits on additional launch vehicles for that.

Online Johnnyhinbos

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #77 on: 08/23/2016 05:01 am »
I believe Moon Express is in it for the long haul - GLXP not withstanding...
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Offline ChrisWilson68

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Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #78 on: 08/23/2016 05:04 am »
I believe Moon Express is in it for the long haul - GLXP not withstanding...

I believe they want to be in it for the long haul.  Whether they're funded for the long haul remains to be seen.

Online TrevorMonty

Re: Moon Express MX-1
« Reply #79 on: 08/23/2016 05:25 pm »
Would this lander be big enough to investigate lunar polars for water. eg land in shadow crate and survive long enough to determine state water is in. This may be simple as scanner or more complex like robotic arm and means of testing sample.

I guessing a life measured in hours.
« Last Edit: 08/23/2016 05:26 pm by TrevorMonty »

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