Author Topic: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission  (Read 39317 times)

Offline Rocket Science

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #40 on: 09/15/2013 08:34 PM »
I still don’t feel this mission is worthy of risking astronauts as I’ve said before. If you want to shake down the spacecraft send it unmanned. If you want a “cool factor”, send Robonaut which will excite the techie- obsessed kids compared to a bunch of “greybeard Astros”...
what about Gemini and all the several Apollos until 11? Two of them went all the way around the Moon, one almost touched down.

There's a reason why we need to do this sort of mission. We can't do a 500-900 day mission right off the bat.

And by following your logic, we may not have any human exploration at all.

Chris, I’ve seen them all from the first Mercury with Shepard on board. We have surpassed the 1960’s level of automation exponentially and having humans in the loop is not a necessity as it once was. There are missions that I would “like” to have humans involved in. We just have to separate our “needs” from our “wants” rationally...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #41 on: 09/15/2013 08:39 PM »
I still don’t feel this mission is worthy of risking astronauts as I’ve said before. If you want to shake down the spacecraft send it unmanned. If you want a “cool factor”, send Robonaut which will excite the techie- obsessed kids compared to a bunch of “greybeard Astros”...
what about Gemini and all the several Apollos until 11? Two of them went all the way around the Moon, one almost touched down.

There's a reason why we need to do this sort of mission. We can't do a 500-900 day mission right off the bat.

And by following your logic, we may not have any human exploration at all.

Chris, I’ve seen them all from the first Mercury with Shepard on board. We have surpassed the 1960’s level of automation exponentially and having humans in the loop is not a necessity as it once was. There are missions that I would “like” to have humans involved in. We just have to separate our “needs” from our “wants” rationally...
I think human exploration of asteroids is just as rational as human exploration of the Moon.

And besides, we're GOING to need a shakedown of the system before we go to Mars, even Mars orbit. When you change parameters by several orders of magnitude at a time, it's helpful to have something in between to catch the unknown unknowns before they kill you.
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Offline Rocket Science

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #42 on: 09/15/2013 09:02 PM »
I still don’t feel this mission is worthy of risking astronauts as I’ve said before. If you want to shake down the spacecraft send it unmanned. If you want a “cool factor”, send Robonaut which will excite the techie- obsessed kids compared to a bunch of “greybeard Astros”...
what about Gemini and all the several Apollos until 11? Two of them went all the way around the Moon, one almost touched down.

There's a reason why we need to do this sort of mission. We can't do a 500-900 day mission right off the bat.

And by following your logic, we may not have any human exploration at all.

Chris, I’ve seen them all from the first Mercury with Shepard on board. We have surpassed the 1960’s level of automation exponentially and having humans in the loop is not a necessity as it once was. There are missions that I would “like” to have humans involved in. We just have to separate our “needs” from our “wants” rationally...
I think human exploration of asteroids is just as rational as human exploration of the Moon.

And besides, we're GOING to need a shakedown of the system before we go to Mars, even Mars orbit. When you change parameters by several orders of magnitude at a time, it's helpful to have something in between to catch the unknown unknowns before they kill you.
To me this is not a Moon-Mars or asteroid thing. It is what is in the capability of robotic exploration with limited budgets.

As far as the shakedown of the system, that is precisely why I don’t feel the need to place humans in harm’s way for a long duration test flight to nowhere...

I hope you understand what I’m saying, even though you may not agree with it...
"The laws of physics are unforgiving"
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #43 on: 09/15/2013 09:35 PM »
Sure, we don't need to put humans in it for test flights, but the astronaut corp would be mad, the average citizen would think it's worthless to send crew-capable spaceships without any crew, and the science community would be frustrated that you're bothering doing the testing at all instead of just doing fully unmanned missions.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline EE Scott

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #44 on: 09/15/2013 09:59 PM »
Phobos/Deimos is what I wish they were considering!!
Patience, grasshopper! We'll need to do some envelope expansion before we go for the 500-900 day Phobos/Deimos missions. But we'll get there.

Instead of a Phobos/Deimos mission, would a simple Mars flyby be less onerous?  That would be one hell of a shakedown cruise, data gathering and wonder-inspiring mission.  How many days could a flyby be done if one wanted to minimize the travel time, within the payload capacity of two launches?
Scott

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #45 on: 09/15/2013 11:01 PM »
Phobos/Deimos is what I wish they were considering!!
Patience, grasshopper! We'll need to do some envelope expansion before we go for the 500-900 day Phobos/Deimos missions. But we'll get there.

Instead of a Phobos/Deimos mission, would a simple Mars flyby be less onerous?  That would be one hell of a shakedown cruise, data gathering and wonder-inspiring mission.  How many days could a flyby be done if one wanted to minimize the travel time, within the payload capacity of two launches?
Itd be less interesting, IMHO, and less science payoff.
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

To the maximum extent practicable, the Federal Government shall plan missions to accommodate the space transportation services capabilities of United States commercial providers. US law http://goo.gl/YZYNt0

Offline EE Scott

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #46 on: 09/15/2013 11:30 PM »
Phobos/Deimos is what I wish they were considering!!
Patience, grasshopper! We'll need to do some envelope expansion before we go for the 500-900 day Phobos/Deimos missions. But we'll get there.

Instead of a Phobos/Deimos mission, would a simple Mars flyby be less onerous?  That would be one hell of a shakedown cruise, data gathering and wonder-inspiring mission.  How many days could a flyby be done if one wanted to minimize the travel time, within the payload capacity of two launches?
Itd be less interesting, IMHO, and less science payoff.

Agreed.  But way easier.
Scott

Offline QuantumG

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #47 on: 09/16/2013 12:43 AM »
Yeah, I'm really starting to feel that some people on this forum just hate the idea of exploring asteroids.. at all. I wonder if they've read any John S. Lewis, or otherwise understand the potential here.
Jeff Bezos has billions to spend on rockets and can go at whatever pace he likes! Wow! What pace is he going at? The slowest possible.

Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #48 on: 09/16/2013 07:12 AM »
I'd love to see NASA do a manned mission to a decent-sized NEA!! I want to see Astronauts clambering over a little world hundreds of meters large for a couple weeks on our Hi-Def TVs. The crew would be conquering a 'Mount Everest in Space' for mankind. The next mission after that could be to Phobos & Deimos with much the same spacecraft and launchers. But there'll be none of this if there's no Leadership. And most of all: no bucks - no 'Buck Rogers'... :(
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Online Robotbeat

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #49 on: 09/16/2013 07:31 AM »
I often feel "leadership" is a euphemism for "thinks exactly like I do."
Chris  Whoever loves correction loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.

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Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #50 on: 09/16/2013 08:21 AM »
That's a long bow to draw as it pertains to my previous post, but... (shrugs). I take it you have a different destination for manned space? My real preferences are (irrelevant?) the Lunar South Pole first, followed by humans on the Martian surface. But NEAS and Martian Moons would push the technical and budgetary envelope quite far enough for now. And 'leadership'? I think all sides would agree that at this moment in time - it's rather lacking...
« Last Edit: 09/16/2013 08:25 AM by MATTBLAK »
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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #51 on: 09/16/2013 08:34 AM »
That's a long bow to draw as it pertains to my previous post, but... (shrugs). I take it you have a different destination for manned space? My real preferences are (irrelevant?) the Lunar South Pole first, followed by humans on the Martian surface. But NEAS and Martian Moons would push the technical and budgetary envelope quite far enough for now. And 'leadership'? I think all sides would agree that at this moment in time - it's rather lacking...
Oh, the President has proposed lots of stuff. It's just that the space parts of Congress mostly want to do things the way they've always been done, and the House wants cuts. Neither gives the President any opportunity for maneuvering. I actually think the asteroid push is great idea for several reasons, even though a lot of us space cadets had our hearts set on the Moon (not myself, I am interested in almost any beyond-LEO exploration).
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Offline MATTBLAK

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #52 on: 09/16/2013 11:21 AM »
Agreed! We're largely on the same page. Congress wants to do most things the same old way they've always done - then in the next breath, fractious factions within it want to cut everything. I guess the asteroid heist mission is not ideal - I view it as budget-strangled mediocrity - but if I were the space-minded U.S. taxpayer, I'd back it if it were the 'only game in town'. It's a deep space flight, with deep space EVAs and might be a 'training wheels' version of a true NEA mission. But it will cost billions, is bloody years away and just does not seem to have captured the public imagination. The best part of the 'Asteroid Heist' mission to me is the development of large Solar Electric Propulsion: scale that sucker up and there'd be serious capability for NEAs, the Moons of Mars and Ceres. For what it's worth; I could seriously get behind a manned mission to land on and drill into Ceres. But I might not live long enough to see that happen - it probably wouldn't done until 10 or 15 years after Mars is walked on. And nobody knows how far into the future that is.

'Space Cadets' like me will be old Space Cadets before anything big happens... :(
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Offline Proponent

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #53 on: 09/16/2013 04:20 PM »
I think human exploration of asteroids is just as rational as human exploration of the Moon.

I can see that the case for exploring asteroids with humans is as great as for exploring the moon with them if we're talking about large, main-belt asteroids like Ceres and Vesta.  But for small NEAs, it seems to me the value of sending people is very small as far as knowledge gathering goes.  I don't see how humans are superior to robots in exploring such small bodies.  But I would be happy to be convinced otherwise.

Quote
And besides, we're GOING to need a shakedown of the system before we go to Mars, even Mars orbit. When you change parameters by several orders of magnitude at a time, it's helpful to have something in between to catch the unknown unknowns before they kill you.

Now this I agree with.  I'm all for sending people to a free-range NEA to demonstrate deep-space ops.  And, while you're there, you might as well do all of the science you can.  A series of successively longer NEA missions might make sense.  But ultimately what's probably needed scientifically are surveys of many asteroids, and that would have to be done robotically.  And utilization of asteroids would have to be robotic if it is to have any hope of being economic.

Offline M129K

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #54 on: 09/16/2013 04:38 PM »
There's a difference between science missions and exploration missions. A manned mission to an asteroid would be an exploration mission; pushing human presence, experience and knowledge of the solar system, serving as a stepping stone for a manned mission to more interesting targets like Mars, Ceres or Callisto. A science mission serves just to increase knowledge. Robots in space allow you to learn more about space. Humans in space allow you to learn more about humans in space.

Offline Proponent

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #55 on: 09/18/2013 07:54 PM »
I think we are, as they say, in violent agreement.

Offline M129K

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #56 on: 09/18/2013 08:08 PM »
After re-reading your previous comment, I think you're right.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #57 on: 03/02/2014 03:52 PM »
The primary problem is lack of funds, not lack of mass. Why do people always get this reversed?

Good catch in general, bears repeating.
« Last Edit: 03/02/2014 03:54 PM by JohnFornaro »
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #58 on: 03/02/2014 03:55 PM »
The article mentions
*202 days to reach the asteroid,
*14 day exploration period
*153 days to return to earth.

Those seem like hugely long travel times for a short exploration to me. How does this compare in risk and cost to a Phobos/Deimos lunar mission?


Fixed that for ya.
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

Offline JohnFornaro

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Re: NASA managers evaluate yearlong deep space asteroid mission
« Reply #59 on: 03/02/2014 03:58 PM »
Just noticed that this thread is pinned to the top of the category.  Why is that, since most of the commentary is months old?
Sometimes I just flat out don't get it.

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