Author Topic: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept  (Read 155863 times)

Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #560 on: 06/17/2016 01:52 PM »
The moon should be cheaper now than when Constellation was the only path. Between SLS and more capable lower price commercial LVs (FH, Vulcan, OA NGLV) plus X prize landers and rovers costs have come down. The commercial  companies are more than capable of handling cargo side of any missions.

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Assuming that the Moon does become a goal, then this could get SpaceX's MCT partially funded by the government.  Assuming that they can prove that they can land a Dragon 2 capsule, on land, after reentry, that is.
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Offline JasonAW3

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #561 on: 06/17/2016 02:03 PM »

     Is it just me or did anyone else notice the rather oddly regular shape of 2008 EV5 in the Nasa ARM reference document?

    It looks like a pair of tunicated cones fused base to base, then hammered a bit over their outer surfaces.  Oddly regular in shape.

     Probably two same sized asteroids that had a low speed impact with one another, squishing out a bit in the middle, but still, a rather odd shape.
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Online KelvinZero

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #562 on: 06/21/2016 02:58 AM »
With the discovery of HO3, there is now a target to aim for without hauling some VW sized rock back from elsewhere. HO3 is about 9M mi at its closest. Taking Orion with a Bigelow hab seems like a reasonable early (yea..that's a relative term here) mission.
I see a thread has started on that. I will put my negativity here :-)

I far prefer the ARRM concept. The attraction of actually going to a rock just seems to be romanticism to me. I think if we do the ARRM mission, and extend it to a DSH, we will actually be practicing everything we need to master an asteroid colony, as well as other possible applications of a high lunar orbit outpost. it is closer and safer, I expect allowing Apollo-13 style free return. There is no reason to tie yourself to just one rock that happens to be in a convenient orbit. Instead we can keep pulling in new samples to our convenient near-earth ISRU testbed.

Offline mike robel

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #563 on: 06/21/2016 08:26 PM »
A search for Asteroid 2004 MN4 did not turn up a lot of hits on the site.  Seems to me, since it will be in the neighborhood, we would be able to accomplish multiple tasks by sending a spacecraft after it.  Presupposing it could be ready in time.  After all, it will be sailing by in visual sight of half the planet in 2029 and possibly around in 2035 again.

Offline A_M_Swallow

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #564 on: 06/23/2016 07:21 AM »
Does anyone have information on how much cargo the ARM SEP tug can take to lunar orbit?
Also how much cargo to Mars orbit?
I am assuming the SEP tug returns to LEO empty to pick up a second cargo.

Offline catdlr

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #565 on: 03/20/2017 09:39 PM »
These NASA-designed grippers can lift massive rocks

Published on Mar 20, 2017
NASA's Jet Propulsion Lab created these super-strong grippers that can anchor and grip rocks at any angle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgvZaz-36us?t=001

Tony De La Rosa

Online FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #566 on: 03/28/2017 02:05 PM »
From NAC HEO meeting:

Quote
Gerst said (I think) that they’re planning to replace the planned crewed element of ARM with an extended mission in cislunar space.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/846721486345949184

Offline redliox

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #567 on: 03/29/2017 12:28 AM »
From NAC HEO meeting:

Quote
Gerst said (I think) that they’re planning to replace the planned crewed element of ARM with an extended mission in cislunar space.

https://twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/846721486345949184

Extended mission in Cislunar space doesn't specify much aside from an Apollo 8 redux.  If done in the NRO the views of the Moon would exchange extensively I'm sure.

Well ashes to ashes, rust to rust, ARM has officially bit the dust...
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Offline whitelancer64

Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #568 on: 06/17/2017 07:51 PM »
Question: was any hardware for ARM actually built?

Specifically wondering about any SEP hardware.
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Offline wannamoonbase

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #569 on: 07/07/2017 02:43 AM »
I'm happy that this dull mission to nowhere has been ended.

40 years in LEO should teach us one thing, a destination matters.
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Offline tea monster

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #570 on: 07/07/2017 07:11 AM »
We were going somewhere, we were going to have a deep-space ion-drive tug.

Now we are back to promises and power point presentations. Yeah, that's great.

Online AncientU

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #571 on: 07/07/2017 01:06 PM »
We were going somewhere, we were going to have a deep-space ion-drive tug.

Now we are back to promises and power point presentations. Yeah, that's great.

Did ARM ever get beyond promises and PowerPoint?

Question: was any hardware for ARM actually built?
 
I am specifically wondering about any SEP hardware.

No

« Last Edit: 07/07/2017 01:07 PM by AncientU »
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Offline tea monster

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #572 on: 07/07/2017 04:09 PM »
No, but it was a real program that was funded and authorised. It was still in the study stage, but it was an approved mission that would have progressed to flight hardware had it been allowed to continue. We would have had a deep-space ion-drive tug, which is similar to the vehicle proposed for the Deep Space Gateway - which is just a presentation at the moment.

It would also have got astronauts out of LEO - again, a real program that was funded and approved.

The Deep Space Gateway is a nice idea and fits well with expanding out to the Moon, and eventually Mars, but it isn't funded and isn't an approved mission. This may all come to pass in the future, but we've traded a 'working' program for a concept that only exists as artwork.

We've been doing that a lot over the last few years and I find it heartbreaking to see yet another chance for us to do something with our space program thrown away for vague promises of something better in the future that may (but based on history, probably won't) be better.

Offline jgoldader

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #573 on: 07/08/2017 01:00 PM »
The original mission concept, sending a crew on a long voyage, didn't sell well, cost too much, and was risky.  The descoped mission, spending billions of dollars to get 2 people a few days at a meters-diameter rock brought into cislunar space, never had a chance.

It's possible that ARM's SEP system might live on as the propulsion module of the Gateway, but we'll see.  Without going OT, it's fair to say that at the very least, Gateway will cost a whole lot more than ARM.

Despite Shoemaker-Levy 9 and Chelyabinsk, the idea of studying NEOs continues to have a high "giggle factor."  When I hear people dismissing the potential threat of NEOs, I get this mental image of people in a lifeboat laughing at shark fins in the water.  You'd have to look a long time to find a stronger advocate of studying NEOs than me.  But even to me, the final version of ARM didn't do nearly enough to justify its cost.
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Online KelvinZero

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #574 on: 07/09/2017 11:28 PM »
If we are lucky, things wont actually change much.

The value in the ARM mission was in the development of SEP, and the introduction of ISRU as a core goal of HSF.

As a one off, the mission itself does look pretty pointless, especially the portion involving SLS/Orion, which no doubt made SLS/Orion lobby very nervous.

It only became interesting if you keep doing it, reusing the tug and so on, in which case a DSH in lunar orbit would naturally have become a part of it. The reason I call this "interesting" is that even if we did nothing else but this -- if we got stuck in a boondoggle of visiting a DSH in lunar orbit which is also visited by samples taken from asteroids, doing ISRU and mastering a more industrial form of technology than the ISS, the central goal being humans and ISRU, not supersensitive microgravity experiments -- then we would still be on the path to asteroid colonisation, the right way, solving the technology to become self sufficient rather than dead-end destination-driven missions that abhor solving problems that do not necessarily have solutions in known timeframes.

The DSH is a wonderful goal that happens to be a lot more expensive. It might happen to be politically more palatable.

If we get a DSH in lunar orbit we will get a lot of practical technology development, moving things from theory to readiness for missions of significant duration.

Apart from that though, it will just be people sitting there. What will they be doing? They have to find something. Lunar teleoperation is one thing, but not enough to justify moving from LEO.  I think one thing this DSH will quite likely end up doing is ARM style missions and ISRU investigations, especially if the SEP development gets funded independently, perhaps as a tool to service the DSH. In that case the horrible expensive ARM missions that so offended certain lobbies will suddenly be noticed to be only a hundredth of the cost and give 50% of the justification for the whole project.

We might even have small reusable robotic sample return vehicles to the moon, extracting samples of dozens of locations and returning to an ISRU lab and eventually back to earth. This would be sort of like "ARM on chemicals"

Offline savuporo

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #575 on: 07/10/2017 05:18 AM »
Lunar teleoperation is one thing, but not enough to justify moving from LEO...
Cutting the 2 second time lag Earth-Moon to 0.5 seconds DSH-Moon ? This would be positively insane attempt of justifying this, i hope nobody seriously tries.
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Online KelvinZero

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Re: Asteroid Retrieval Mission Concept
« Reply #576 on: 07/11/2017 12:27 AM »
Lunar teleoperation is one thing, but not enough to justify moving from LEO...
Cutting the 2 second time lag Earth-Moon to 0.5 seconds DSH-Moon ? This would be positively insane attempt of justifying this, i hope nobody seriously tries.
Ok, perhaps I should have said "not nearly, remotely enough"  :)

I still expect it will be one of the things we will dabble in if we have a DSH in high lunar orbit.

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