Author Topic: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attempt 2 Updates  (Read 88111 times)

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #40 on: 03/11/2010 04:00 PM »
Hard to Tell but it looks like the Strongback arms at the top may be opened up..
« Last Edit: 03/11/2010 04:00 PM by stockman »
One Percent for Space!!!

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #41 on: 03/11/2010 04:02 PM »
That is definitely something that should not become SOP. Aborting after ignition and safing a vehicle should be a safety net, not an accepted thing. Like a LAS for crewed launches.

Actually 98% of all sims and training that involve anything that flies consists of abort proceedures and situations. So, I'd hope that Space-X has made this a major portion of their training and NOT a safety net.

In airline captain's training you do one normal flight (if you're lucky) and then spend six weeks or more aborting and or getting killed over and over. If you ask any NASA controller they'll tell you the same exact thing.

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #42 on: 03/11/2010 04:03 PM »
retraction in process
« Last Edit: 03/11/2010 04:07 PM by stockman »
One Percent for Space!!!

Online ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7420
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1582
  • Likes Given: 339
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #43 on: 03/11/2010 04:14 PM »
That is definitely something that should not become SOP. Aborting after ignition and safing a vehicle should be a safety net, not an accepted thing. Like a LAS for crewed launches.

Actually 98% of all sims and training that involve anything that flies consists of abort proceedures and situations. So, I'd hope that Space-X has made this a major portion of their training and NOT a safety net.

Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Having to abort during ignition on a regular basis means your system isn't exactly designed properly. Of course there will be occasional aborts in various points of the countdown, and teams sure as hell need to be drilled to handle them, but that doesn't mean you actually want post-ignition aborts becoming your SOP.

Online ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7420
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1582
  • Likes Given: 339
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #44 on: 03/11/2010 04:16 PM »
Sunshine State:

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #45 on: 03/11/2010 04:26 PM »
hope its ok to repost this here... another update from SFN..

"The strongback fueling tower has retracted away from the Falcon 9 rocket at Cape Canaveral. Whether this activity is a test or a sign that the booster will soon be fueled is unclear. The latest information we received from SpaceX indicated the static fire may occur today, but stormy weather is prevalent across the Space Coast. "

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/falcon9/001/status.html
One Percent for Space!!!

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #46 on: 03/11/2010 04:27 PM »
seems like they have moved the webcam zoom back... :(
« Last Edit: 03/11/2010 04:29 PM by stockman »
One Percent for Space!!!

Offline zerm

  • Hypergolic cartoonist
  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Klyde Morris dot com
  • Liked: 32
  • Likes Given: 8
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #47 on: 03/11/2010 05:06 PM »
That is definitely something that should not become SOP. Aborting after ignition and safing a vehicle should be a safety net, not an accepted thing. Like a LAS for crewed launches.

Actually 98% of all sims and training that involve anything that flies consists of abort proceedures and situations. So, I'd hope that Space-X has made this a major portion of their training and NOT a safety net.

Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to say. Having to abort during ignition on a regular basis means your system isn't exactly designed properly. Of course there will be occasional aborts in various points of the countdown, and teams sure as hell need to be drilled to handle them, but that doesn't mean you actually want post-ignition aborts becoming your SOP.

Gotcha' now- agree 100%. Let's hope that the next test goes better.

Offline Antares

  • ABO^2
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5194
  • Done arguing with amateurs
  • Liked: 345
  • Likes Given: 223
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #48 on: 03/11/2010 05:08 PM »
Scrub for weather.
If I like something on NSF, it's probably because I know it to be accurate.  Every once in a while, it's just something I agree with.  Facts generally receive the former.

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #49 on: 03/11/2010 05:24 PM »
clearing up a bit.. probably just a break in the weather though... looks ugly today.
« Last Edit: 03/11/2010 05:31 PM by stockman »
One Percent for Space!!!

Online ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7420
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1582
  • Likes Given: 339
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #50 on: 03/11/2010 05:27 PM »
looks ugly today.

And looks like more of the same (if not worse) tomorrow. Saturday looks promising.

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #51 on: 03/11/2010 06:06 PM »
Hard to see for sure from this distance but it does appear that the strongback is back in its upright position around F9 - it would appear Antares is right again and we are scrubbed for the day...
« Last Edit: 03/11/2010 06:07 PM by stockman »
One Percent for Space!!!

Offline corrodedNut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1541
  • Liked: 207
  • Likes Given: 130
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #52 on: 03/11/2010 06:31 PM »
SFN:

"Amid thunder, heavy rain and stiff winds, the Falcon 9 remains on the launch pad. The strongback servicing tower has been returned to its vertical position against the Falcon 9 rocket. SpaceX officials still aren't confirming whether there is still a chance of a static fire attempt this afternoon. "

I think our sources know better.

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #53 on: 03/11/2010 06:39 PM »
SFN:

"A SpaceX spokesperson says today's engine test has been scrubbed due to winds and weather at the launch site. "


better luck tomorrow...
One Percent for Space!!!

Offline Kabloona

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4086
  • Velocitas Eradico
  • Fortress of Solitude
  • Liked: 2256
  • Likes Given: 464
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #54 on: 03/11/2010 06:58 PM »
Saturday forecast is clear but windy (gusts to 25 mph). Anyone know what the wind limits might be for the static firing?

Online Chris Bergin

Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attempt 2 Updates
« Reply #55 on: 03/11/2010 07:12 PM »
Thanks for the screenshots Roger, and to Antares for the heads up on the scrub.

Technically wasn't a second attempt I'd say, so we'll keep things on this thread for the next opportunity.

Offline corrodedNut

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1541
  • Liked: 207
  • Likes Given: 130
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attempt 2 Updates
« Reply #56 on: 03/11/2010 07:22 PM »
SpaceX has made a change to their latest update, it now says:

"The brief flames seen on the video are normal burn off of residual LOX and kerosene, similar to what occurs when we do stage firings at our test site in Texas. No damage occurred to the vehicle."

Online ugordan

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7420
    • My mainly Cassini image gallery
  • Liked: 1582
  • Likes Given: 339
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #57 on: 03/11/2010 07:23 PM »
Anyone know what the wind limits might be for the static firing?

I'm trying to think of a reason why wind would be an issue for a vehicle anchored to the pad. Are they playing this out as a real launch down to ground wind constraints, even though this time the vehicle isn't leaving the pad?

Also, any idea why they'd even attempt the hotfire today when the weather was clearly abysmal? They can't rush for the launch without getting range safety approvals anyway. Could it be a sign those are being finished up?

Offline stockman

  • Extreme Veteran
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6916
  • Southern Ontario - Canada
  • Liked: 3
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attempt 2 Updates
« Reply #58 on: 03/11/2010 08:49 PM »
from SFN:

"SpaceX is planning April 12 as their new launch date on the Eastern Range, according to the Air Force. The launch window would be between 11 a.m. and 3 p.m. EDT. But the new launch date is still pending Air Force approval.
The company tried to fuel the 15-story Falcon 9 rocket this afternoon and fire the first stage's nine Merlin engines for a hotfire test, but inclement weather thwarted the attempted test.

The weather forecast tomorrow calls for similar conditions to today, including a good chance of strong thunderstorms near Cape Canaveral. The outlook predicts better weather Saturday and Sunday. "
One Percent for Space!!!

Offline William Barton

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3487
  • Liked: 2
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: SpaceX: Falcon 9 Hotfire Attemp 2 Updates
« Reply #59 on: 03/11/2010 09:13 PM »

Which points to an interesting (slightly OT) speculation: If they ever succeed in getting second stage recovery, would they then want to implement in-flight abort for it? I realize throwing the payload in the sea would be a big complication, but if the stage fails, it's going in the sea anyway.

Other than you are talking the difference between recovering a fully fueled upper stage and an empty upper stage... You'll need bigger a parachute ;)

One assumes they'd take the easier route of arranging an in flight fuel dump? Addressing some earlier comments of others, I think I was misunderstood. I was suggesting if they ever get to full recoverability (i.e., they are expecting to get both stages back, as well as, in the case of Dragon, the payload), might they not begin to think in terms of aborts across the entire flight regime? I realise it would be pretty hard to cover everything in a VTOPL LV. It's hard (though not impossible) to imagine a first stage multiple engine failure at +30sec, for example, where the second stage boosts away, dumps it's fuel, and comes down on parachute. Probably not worth the design effort. I think the idea all along has been, "If we get the rocket back, more profit for us!" And if they don't, it still got paid for by the customer.

Tags: