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SpaceX Vehicles and Missions => SpaceX Missions Section => Topic started by: Chris Bergin on 12/06/2012 01:43 AM

Title: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : H1-2019?
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/06/2012 01:43 AM
DISCUSSION thread for STP-2 mission.

NSF Threads for STP-2 : Discussion (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30544.0) / ASDS (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=66.0) / Party (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42585.0)
NSF Articles for STP-2 :

probably around the end of Q1 2019 on Falcon Heavy from LC-39A at Cape Canaveral?

This is also the ELaNa XV CubeSat mission for NASA

Link to post with currently known payloads (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30544.msg1795426#msg1795426)

Other SpaceX resources on NASASpaceflight:
   SpaceX News Articles (Recent) (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/spacex/)  /   SpaceX News Articles from 2006 (Including numerous exclusive Elon interviews) (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=21862.0)
   SpaceX Dragon Articles (http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/tag/dragon/)  /  SpaceX Missions Section (with Launch Manifest and info on past and future missions) (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=55.0)
   L2 SpaceX Section (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?board=60.0)




http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2012/12/spacex-foot-eelv-door-double-launch-contract-win/

UGordan with the find on the description of STP-2 payload: https://www.fbo.gov/utils/view?id=36de6af7670d2636c8c195173dd500e1
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: simonbp on 12/06/2012 02:05 AM
Wow, this looks like a complicated mission. Two primary spacecraft inserted into different orbits (one LEO, one 12,000 km) and a ton of secondaries. Looks like every spare spacecraft the USAF could think of...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lee Jay on 12/06/2012 02:30 AM
Interesting article.  Thanks!

"With these two missions supporting the EELV certification process for both the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy, SpaceX noted they will be able to prove the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles are designed for exceptional reliability, meeting the stringent US Air Force requirements for the Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle (EELV) program."

Exceptional reliability?  To me, that would mean better than ULA, and that would require a very long string of successful missions, not just one successful demonstrator.  Is this just marketing/PR speak from SpaceX?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lars_J on 12/06/2012 04:07 AM
Of course it is marketing speak - until they can back it up.

But this will certainly be an interesting mission. It doesn't sound like a something pushing the lift capability to the limit, but they'll certainly give everything else a workout.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: spectre9 on 12/06/2012 04:14 AM
Very cool!

Great article.

It's good to see support coming for Falcon Heavy.

Stacking all the payloads together is going to be the way to do it until somebody is willing to utilise the maximum payload to GTO. I think it's 12 tons? Not sure. Does anybody really know? With or without Merlin 1D and tank stretch  :P
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: cleonard on 12/06/2012 04:19 AM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jason1701 on 12/06/2012 04:19 AM
Very cool!

Great article.

It's good to see support coming for Falcon Heavy.

Stacking all the payloads together is going to be the way to do it until somebody is willing to utilise the maximum payload to GTO. I think it's 12 tons? Not sure. Does anybody really know? With or without Merlin 1D and tank stretch  :P

The quoted FH figures for the last few years have all been with 1D and stretch, but not always admitting that.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Comga on 12/06/2012 04:35 AM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.

and from a pad whose construction has not been started.
I will trust Chris that this confirms that SpaceX will launch the FH from the East coast using LC-40. 
This will be interesting.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 12/06/2012 09:00 AM
At the time the type was officially announced, it was implied very strongly that DoD or USAF had urged SpaceX to proceed with Falcon Heavy more quickly than they had initially planned.  I wonder if STP-2 was the mission that they had in mind, even then?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: john smith 19 on 12/06/2012 09:28 AM
But this will certainly be an interesting mission. It doesn't sound like a something pushing the lift capability to the limit, but they'll certainly give everything else a workout.

IIRC the "on ramp" for new launchers (reported on nasaspaceflight.com previously) has a scale of mission reliability. I suspect these payloads are not at top end so the customers can take the hit if it does not work out.

This is a huge opportunity to go head to head with ULA and start to build credibility and the all important "mission assurance" that these customers want.

I'm presuming this won't be the first F9H launch and even if it's in Q415 that's only (best case) 23 months away, which is not long for a 2nd launch of a new LV.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/06/2012 09:35 AM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.

and from a pad whose construction has not been started.
I will trust Chris that this confirms that SpaceX will launch the FH from the East coast using LC-40. 
This will be interesting.

Yep, the plan is to have a Falcon Heavy hanger and ramp, clocked 90 degrees (could be 180, but the Cape guys say 90) from the Falcon 9 Hanger and ramp. Other options include 39A - I just made Jim frown ;D -or a new pad.....if they don't need it, they don't need it.

Was pretty specific in the presser too: "The DSCOVR mission will be launched aboard a Falcon 9 and is currently slated for late 2014, while STP-2 will be launched aboard the Falcon Heavy and is targeted for mid-2015. Both are expected to launch from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.".
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/06/2012 09:39 AM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.

and from a pad whose construction has not been started.
I will trust Chris that this confirms that SpaceX will launch the FH from the East coast using LC-40. 
This will be interesting.

Yep, the plan is to have a Falcon Heavy hanger and ramp, clocked 90 degrees (could be 180, but the Cape guys say 90) from the Falcon 9 Hanger and ramp. Other options include 39A or a new pad.

Was pretty specific in the presser too: "The DSCOVR mission will be launched aboard a Falcon 9 and is currently slated for late 2014, while STP-2 will be launched aboard the Falcon Heavy and is targeted for mid-2015. Both are expected to launch from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.".

But that sentence does not exclude the chances of building a new pad aside the current pad at SLC-40 (I've seen someone here call it "SLC-40B"), no?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Halidon on 12/06/2012 09:49 AM
At the time the type was officially announced, it was implied very strongly that DoD or USAF had urged SpaceX to proceed with Falcon Heavy more quickly than they had initially planned.  I wonder if STP-2 was the mission that they had in mind, even then?
I don't think this specific mission was on their minds, I think they pushed SpaceX to accelerate FH because F1v1 wasn't meeting their requirements in general. DoD's high valure payloads are big and may be getting bigger.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/06/2012 09:51 AM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.

and from a pad whose construction has not been started.
I will trust Chris that this confirms that SpaceX will launch the FH from the East coast using LC-40. 
This will be interesting.

Yep, the plan is to have a Falcon Heavy hanger and ramp, clocked 90 degrees (could be 180, but the Cape guys say 90) from the Falcon 9 Hanger and ramp. Other options include 39A or a new pad.

Was pretty specific in the presser too: "The DSCOVR mission will be launched aboard a Falcon 9 and is currently slated for late 2014, while STP-2 will be launched aboard the Falcon Heavy and is targeted for mid-2015. Both are expected to launch from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.".

But that sentence does not exclude the chances of building a new pad aside the current pad at SLC-40 (I've seen someone here call it "SLC-40B"), no?

Sure, but I know the "plan" is to launch both from the same spot. What they eventually decide is "TBA". Point is, "SLC-40".
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: woods170 on 12/06/2012 10:39 AM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.

and from a pad whose construction has not been started.
I will trust Chris that this confirms that SpaceX will launch the FH from the East coast using LC-40. 
This will be interesting.
Construction for the combined Falcon 9 / Falcon Heavy launchpad at Vandenburg has been on-going for some time now.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: LouScheffer on 12/06/2012 11:40 AM
Wow, this looks like a complicated mission. Two primary spacecraft inserted into different orbits (one LEO, one 12,000 km) and a ton of secondaries. Looks like every spare spacecraft the USAF could think of...
From the document:

Insertion Orbit #1

Deliver the IPS to a circular orbit with an orbital altitude of 720 km and an orbital inclination of 24º. Deploy only the COSMIC-2 payload set, up to six APLs (TBR), and actuate up to eight P-PODs (TBR).

Insertion Orbit #2

Deliver the IPS (with remaining payloads) to the elliptical orbit with a perigee of 6,000 km, apogee of 12,000 km, and an orbital inclination of 45º. Deploy the DSX payload followed by remaining APLs and actuate remaining P-PODs. After deployment of these payloads, the LV shall enter a coast phase of [3 hours threshold, 5 hours objective]. After the coast phase, the LV shall execute an upper stage restart with a minimum duration of 5 seconds (TBR).

This looks like at least 5 burns of the second stage to me, over many hours.  #1, get into orbit with a 720 km apogee, 24 inclination.  #2, circularize at 720, release first payload.  #3, Next equator crossing, boost to a 6000 km perigee.  Coast until apogee, #4, boost to a 12000x6000 orbit and change plane to 45º.  Wait the required 3 hours for the final stage restart (#5).

I'm not an orbital mechanics guy, but you might get less delta-v by doing the last plane change at the 12,000 km apogee, rather than including it as part of burn #4.  That would be yet another burn, and a few more hours.

The Russian missions to GTO from their high latitude Proton launches are the only other ones I can think of with this many restarts, and they've had reliability problems over the years.   It's a lot of successive events, all of which must go right, and no alternatives....
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 12/06/2012 12:51 PM
At the time the type was officially announced, it was implied very strongly that DoD or USAF had urged SpaceX to proceed with Falcon Heavy more quickly than they had initially planned.  I wonder if STP-2 was the mission that they had in mind, even then?
I don't think this specific mission was on their minds, I think they pushed SpaceX to accelerate FH because F1v1 wasn't meeting their requirements in general. DoD's high valure payloads are big and may be getting bigger.

Huh?  Unwarranted speculation.  This is just a  mission made up to test the FH.  There is no pushing from the DOD either.  The onus is on Spacex to provide the vehicle, the DOD was not looking for another one.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: padrat on 12/06/2012 12:52 PM
It's a wonderful opportunity for Spacex, but they need to execute.  It might seem like it's a long way off in 2015, but it's really not that far off for a vehicle that has not flown yet.

and from a pad whose construction has not been started.
I will trust Chris that this confirms that SpaceX will launch the FH from the East coast using LC-40. 
This will be interesting.

Yep, the plan is to have a Falcon Heavy hanger and ramp, clocked 90 degrees (could be 180, but the Cape guys say 90) from the Falcon 9 Hanger and ramp. Other options include 39A - I just made Jim frown ;D -or a new pad.....if they don't need it, they don't need it.

Was pretty specific in the presser too: "The DSCOVR mission will be launched aboard a Falcon 9 and is currently slated for late 2014, while STP-2 will be launched aboard the Falcon Heavy and is targeted for mid-2015. Both are expected to launch from Space Launch Complex 40 at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, Florida.".
All I'm saying is that I'm hearing decisions for the Heavy pad havent been finalized yet. 39A would be nice but so far it comes with a lot of red tape, which I'm sure Spacex would like to avoid....
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: kevin-rf on 12/06/2012 01:00 PM
Well, sounds like SpaceX will have it's hands full managing the boil off. Hats off if they pull off this Hat Trick.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: avollhar on 12/06/2012 01:04 PM
This looks like at least 5 burns of the second stage to me, over many hours.  #1, get into orbit with a 720 km apogee, 24 inclination.  #2, circularize at 720, release first payload.  #3, Next equator crossing, boost to a 6000 km perigee.  Coast until apogee, #4, boost to a 12000x6000 orbit and change plane to 45º.  Wait the required 3 hours for the final stage restart (#5).

I'm not an orbital mechanics guy, but you might get less delta-v by doing the last plane change at the 12,000 km apogee, rather than including it as part of burn #4.  That would be yet another burn, and a few more hours.


I am no orbital mechanics guy either, but had to do some math a few years ago. Indeed, changing planes is most efficient with lowest orbital velocity: high apogee, low perigee.

Therefore my best guess is:

- Launch into 720x250km transfer orbit 24 deg inclination. The 4.5 deg difference to KSC latitude could be included already.
- Burn 1: 720x720km, 24 deg incl.
- Burn 2: 720x12000km, 24 deg incl.
- Burn 3: 720x12000km, plane change to 45 deg incl.
- Burn 4: 6000x12000km, 45 deg incl.
- Burn 5: as required by contract

I don't think there is a way around separating Burn 2/3. But 3/4 could be possibly joined as they both happen at apogee.

As others noted: a hell of a launch sequence..
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: mlindner on 12/06/2012 02:22 PM
I'm personally wondering about those cubesat P-PODs. My lab here has several nanosats in the pipeline that could be ready for launch in roughly that timeframe. Would be really cool to be on this launch. Only 1 of 3 planned is currently manifested.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: baldusi on 12/06/2012 03:19 PM
I'm personally wondering about those cubesat P-PODs. My lab here has several nanosats in the pipeline that could be ready for launch in roughly that timeframe. Would be really cool to be on this launch. Only 1 of 3 planned is currently manifested.
I always joked that you could launch 25k cubesats on a Falcon Heavy for 6000USD/cubesat. Jokes aside, I don't know what sort of cubesat could use a 24deg 720km circular orbit, or a 45deg x 12.000km x 6.000km. But if somebody can use it there's that 5.000kg of ballast to fill.
And it will test some very exiting ESPA technology.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: LouScheffer on 12/06/2012 05:57 PM
This looks like at least 5 burns of the second stage to me, over many hours.  #1, get into orbit with a 720 km apogee, 24 inclination.  #2, circularize at 720, release first payload.  #3, Next equator crossing, boost to a 6000 km perigee.  Coast until apogee, #4, boost to a 12000x6000 orbit and change plane to 45º.  Wait the required 3 hours for the final stage restart (#5).

I'm not an orbital mechanics guy, but you might get less delta-v by doing the last plane change at the 12,000 km apogee, rather than including it as part of burn #4.  That would be yet another burn, and a few more hours.


[...] Indeed, changing planes is most efficient with lowest orbital velocity: high apogee, low perigee.   Therefore my best guess is:

- Launch into 720x250km transfer orbit 24 deg inclination. The 4.5 deg difference to KSC latitude could be included already.
- Burn 1: 720x720km, 24 deg incl.
- Burn 2: 720x12000km, 24 deg incl.
- Burn 3: 720x12000km, plane change to 45 deg incl.
- Burn 4: 6000x12000km, 45 deg incl.
- Burn 5: as required by contract

I don't think there is a way around separating Burn 2/3. But 3/4 could be possibly joined as they both happen at apogee.
Burns 3/4 in your sequence would definitely be combined, thanks to the triangle inequality (The vector sum of two vectors is shorter than the sum of the lengths of the two vectors, unless they are colinear, which does not apply here.)  Whether the saving from the plane change with the lower perigee outweighs the orbital-raising benefit of doing each burn at the highest velocity is not obvious, at least to me.

I suspect the true solution is to do some of the plane change at each relevant firing. Due to the sin/cos relation, you can get a sideways delta-v of 10% of the maneuver total by giving up only 0.5% in the main direction.  So you'd pick up some of the plane change on the 750 circ->750x6000, some on the 750x6000->6000x12000, and the remainder (if any) at apogee.  I'm sure that someone at SpaceX has worked this out in detail already, to make sure they have enough delta-v.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Halidon on 12/06/2012 06:18 PM
At the time the type was officially announced, it was implied very strongly that DoD or USAF had urged SpaceX to proceed with Falcon Heavy more quickly than they had initially planned.  I wonder if STP-2 was the mission that they had in mind, even then?
I don't think this specific mission was on their minds, I think they pushed SpaceX to accelerate FH because F1v1 wasn't meeting their requirements in general. DoD's high valure payloads are big and may be getting bigger.

Huh?  Unwarranted speculation.  This is just a  mission made up to test the FH.  There is no pushing from the DOD either.  The onus is on Spacex to provide the vehicle, the DOD was not looking for another one.
You're misunderstanding me. I'm not saying SecDef called up Elon and said "build be a Heavy," I'm saying Falcon 9, at least V1, wasn't meeting requirements for the payloads DoD puts on EELVs.

DoD may not have been looking for another vehicle, but they are definitely looking to reduce costs. IF SpaceX can deliver lower costs with a reliable vehicle they'll get payloads.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Antares on 12/06/2012 07:51 PM
Sounds like a 3 burn mission to me.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: FinalFrontier on 12/06/2012 07:57 PM
Well between this, specualtion that FH might be the vehicle for GSC, ongoing CRS, ongoing CCDEV, and ongoing investigation into the engine one failure on the last flight, spacex sure has their hands full right now.

Really pulling for them to pull all this off.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ugordan on 12/06/2012 07:57 PM
Sounds like a 3 burn mission to me.

How do you get from 720x720 to 6000x12000 in one burn, because there is this final requirement for the insertion orbit #2 which accounts for an additional burn: After the coast phase, the LV shall execute an upper stage restart with a minimum duration of 5 seconds (TBR).?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Robotbeat on 12/06/2012 08:05 PM
Sounds like a 3 burn mission to me.

How do you get from 720x720 to 6000x12000 in one burn, because there is this final requirement for the insertion orbit #2 which accounts for an additional burn: After the coast phase, the LV shall execute an upper stage restart with a minimum duration of 5 seconds (TBR).?
Agreed, I immediately thought it sounded more like a 4-burn mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 12/06/2012 08:06 PM
The launch of NET August 2015 is probably prior to the Intelsat launch making this one the test launch for the East coast of FH.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: cleonard on 12/06/2012 08:17 PM
Sounds like a 3 burn mission to me.

Launch into  720x720km, 24 deg incl.
Restart 1: Increase altitude to 720x12000km, 24 deg incl.
Restart 2: Increase altitude to 6000x12000 and plane change to 45 deg
Restart 3: as required by contract

How do you get from 720x720 to 6000x12000 in one burn, because there is this final requirement for the insertion orbit #2 which accounts for an additional burn: After the coast phase, the LV shall execute an upper stage restart with a minimum duration of 5 seconds (TBR).?
Agreed, I immediately thought it sounded more like a 4-burn mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Ronsmytheiii on 12/07/2012 02:50 AM
PDF on DSX

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a531813.pdf
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: LouScheffer on 12/07/2012 11:19 AM
PDF on DSX

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a531813.pdf

From this document:

DSX is slated to fly in a 6,000 km x 12,000 km elliptical orbit at 120 degrees retrograde.

Lucky they relaxed this requirement.  That would be the mother of all plane changes!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 12/07/2012 02:16 PM
PDF on DSX

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a531813.pdf

From this document:

DSX is slated to fly in a 6,000 km x 12,000 km elliptical orbit at 120 degrees retrograde.

Lucky they relaxed this requirement.  That would be the mother of all plane changes!

The original plan, IIRC, was to fly it along with the next DMSP mission to a polar orbit on an Atlas V (401!) with a lot of excess capability. A plane change from 98 to 120 degrees with such a payload at apogee isn't that difficult.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Orbiter on 12/07/2012 02:24 PM
PDF on DSX

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a531813.pdf

From this document:

DSX is slated to fly in a 6,000 km x 12,000 km elliptical orbit at 120 degrees retrograde.

Lucky they relaxed this requirement.  That would be the mother of all plane changes!

The original plan, IIRC, was to fly it along with the next DMSP mission to a polar orbit on an Atlas V (401!) with a lot of excess capability. A plane change from 98 to 120 degrees with such a payload at apogee isn't that difficult.

It is if you're trying to get to a retrograde (ie. east to west) orbit instead of the normal prograde orbit from KSC! :) Unless I read what you guys are talking about wrong.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: LouScheffer on 12/07/2012 02:46 PM
PDF on DSX

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a531813.pdf

From this document:

DSX is slated to fly in a 6,000 km x 12,000 km elliptical orbit at 120 degrees retrograde.

Lucky they relaxed this requirement.  That would be the mother of all plane changes!

The original plan, IIRC, was to fly it along with the next DMSP mission to a polar orbit on an Atlas V (401!) with a lot of excess capability. A plane change from 98 to 120 degrees with such a payload at apogee isn't that difficult.
Agreed, for a dedicated mission it's not hard.  But now it's a dual mission, and the satellite dropped off just before wants a 24 degree prograde orbit.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: smoliarm on 12/09/2012 12:45 PM
NBS reports more details on contracts:

The U.S. Air Force will pay $97 million for a Falcon 9 rocket to launch in 2014 the Deep Space Climate Observatory, a solar telescope that will be operated by NASA. It will also pay $165 million for a Falcon Heavy rocket for the military's Space Test Program-2 satellite, which is expected to fly in 2015.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50094995/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.UMSQT3dacgp

Why are the prices so high?
-- Falcon 9: $M 97 / 54 = 1.8
-- Falcon H: $M 165 / 128 = 1.3

Is it because these missions are much more complex than typical satellite launch?
Or, do they request some additional services?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 12/09/2012 01:12 PM
NBS reports more details on contracts:

The U.S. Air Force will pay $97 million for a Falcon 9 rocket to launch in 2014 the Deep Space Climate Observatory, a solar telescope that will be operated by NASA. It will also pay $165 million for a Falcon Heavy rocket for the military's Space Test Program-2 satellite, which is expected to fly in 2015.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/50094995/ns/technology_and_science-space/#.UMSQT3dacgp

Why are the prices so high?
-- Falcon 9: $M 97 / 54 = 1.8
-- Falcon H: $M 165 / 128 = 1.3

Is it because these missions are much more complex than typical satellite launch?
Or, do they request some additional services?

Gov't launches are always more expensive.  They ask for more data  and services since they are self insured.

This has been stated many times on this forum, the govt does not get the website price.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: baldusi on 12/09/2012 02:30 PM
I'm wondering why the "premium" is higher for the Falcon 9, a flown vehicle with probably more flight history, than the Falcon Heavy, which will need not only more analysis, but also has a way more complicated integration work.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ugordan on 12/09/2012 02:38 PM
* v1.1 has not flown. From a propulsion standpoint it's sufficiently different than a v1.0 that it shouldn't be called a flown vehicle. Especially if you throw the 5 m fairing into the mix.

* FH premium is only lower if you assume the price advertised for "Greater than 6.4 ton to GTO", otherwise the listed "commercial" price is $83 M
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 12/09/2012 06:46 PM
The whole intent of STP-2 is to demonstrate the full capability of the booster. So it would be a cross feed FH at a commercial price of $125M.

Notice that the add on services seem to be a fixed amount regardless of booster at about $40M.

BTW even this service done by ULA seems to be $40M. So it is a well defined manpower intensive service (lots of paperwork) that dosen't vary by booster or provider.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 12/10/2012 03:22 PM
Posts after the above were not relevant to this pre-mission thread. Split and merged with a Falcon Heavy thread here:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=29214.msg989887#msg989887
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: baldusi on 12/10/2012 04:43 PM
* v1.1 has not flown. From a propulsion standpoint it's sufficiently different than a v1.0 that it shouldn't be called a flown vehicle. Especially if you throw the 5 m fairing into the mix.

* FH premium is only lower if you assume the price advertised for "Greater than 6.4 ton to GTO", otherwise the listed "commercial" price is $83 M
v1.1 is quite similar to v1.0. The environment is sort of known. Even engine out has some history. In fact, next year should have at least two launches from two pads, may be even three launches, which would allow for a Category 2 certification.
FH might get to fly once before this mission, and probably from another pad. No vehicle has flown with three cores and more than one engine per core. They have no experience on the cross feed. They have very little history to extrapolate. They have very little insight on engine out for a booster case.
They will even need a new hangar, modify a pad and demonstrate a new process, since they can't just copy the VAFB hangar/pad combo.
And DSCOVR is a simple mission. Burn till close to escape and release. I think  will not even need a second US burn. And they have to integrate a single payload.
STP-2 on the other hand, will have to demonstrate at least four burns, integrate some ten to twelve payloads, do a circular orbit, change plane, get to a new elliptical orbit and dispose the US.
Just the analysis and integration work should be over 50M. May be SpaceX is selling at cost and they are actually charging 85M for the launch and 80M for the rest of the services.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ugordan on 12/10/2012 04:53 PM
v1.1 is quite similar to v1.0. The environment is sort of known.

Never underestimate the headaches even "slight" changes can give you in this business. Sort of known doesn't quite cut it. Case in point: the mere choice of location of a vent on F9 has already bitten them in the rear twice, once causing a frozen roll nozzle and once damaging a niobium nozzle extension. The engines are arranged differently, different plumbing and thrust structure, probably different gimbals (single plane?), etc.

In fact, my uneducated opinion would be that it's a bigger jump from v1.0 to v1.1 than from v1.1 to a FH (without crossfeed, at least).

I will grant you that STP-2 is a much more challenging flight profile, obviously designed as a FH shakedown flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Mader Levap on 12/10/2012 07:57 PM
v1.1 is quite similar to v1.0.
I think thrid mission of F1 wants to talk with you. Something about ablative vs regenerative cooling and thrust transients, I dunno.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Antares on 12/11/2012 04:20 AM
Presumably the USAF certification efforts will occur for the first launch.  The FH launch will only require certification of the differences.  So if things like avionics, engines, structures, sep mechanisms, power, etc. are the same between the two, they won't have to be re-rubber-stamped.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: baldusi on 12/11/2012 05:59 PM
v1.1 is quite similar to v1.0.
I think thrid mission of F1 wants to talk with you. Something about ablative vs regenerative cooling and thrust transients, I dunno.
How many separation events had they had before flt 3?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MP99 on 12/13/2012 01:04 PM
Why are the prices so high?
-- Falcon 9: $M 97 / 54 = 1.8
-- Falcon H: $M 165 / 128 = 1.3

Or, maybe it's not a coincidence that the increment is similar for the two:-

-- Falcon 9: $M 97 - 54 = +$43m
-- Falcon H: $M 165 / 128 = +$37m

...especially when you also bear in mind Antares later post

Presumably the USAF certification efforts will occur for the first launch.  The FH launch will only require certification of the differences.  So if things like avionics, engines, structures, sep mechanisms, power, etc. are the same between the two, they won't have to be re-rubber-stamped.

cheers, Martin
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Comga on 12/14/2012 03:12 AM

From the document:

Insertion Orbit #1

Deliver the IPS to a circular orbit with an orbital altitude of 720 km and an orbital inclination of 24º. Deploy only the COSMIC-2 payload set, up to six APLs (TBR), and actuate up to eight P-PODs (TBR).

Insertion Orbit #2

Deliver the IPS (with remaining payloads) to the elliptical orbit with a perigee of 6,000 km, apogee of 12,000 km, and an orbital inclination of 45º. Deploy the DSX payload followed by remaining APLs and actuate remaining P-PODs. After deployment of these payloads, the LV shall enter a coast phase of [3 hours threshold, 5 hours objective]. After the coast phase, the LV shall execute an upper stage restart with a minimum duration of 5 seconds (TBR).

This looks like at least 5 burns of the second stage to me, over many hours.  #1, get into orbit with a 720 km apogee, 24 inclination.  #2, circularize at 720, release first payload.  #3, Next equator crossing, boost to a 6000 km perigee.  Coast until apogee, #4, boost to a 12000x6000 orbit and change plane to 45º.  Wait the required 3 hours for the final stage restart (#5).

That is an answer to an open question: How many restarts a Merlin-1D-Vac can perform.  Five seems to be a pretty big number. 
Are they limited by the number of onboard "start cartridges" or can they be repeated as long as there are supplies like pressurization and power and fuel?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 12/14/2012 12:25 PM
TEB for ignition and Helium for spin limit number of restarts
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 12/14/2012 03:39 PM
If I remember correctly the M1C (not the MVAC) was mentioned having 10 TEB's to support multiple rapid countdown reset starts. The M1D would probably have the same, which would mean the M1DVAC would have the same capability of the M1D causing the limiting factor primarily being the spin-up. A larger or second Helium tank could allow for more starts. Remember that during thrust the prop tank pressure must be maintained for structural strength.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ugordan on 12/14/2012 03:51 PM
If I remember correctly the M1C (not the MVAC) was mentioned having 10 TEB's to support multiple rapid countdown reset starts.

I thought that was implied for ground storage at the pad, not onboard TEA/TEB?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 12/14/2012 04:44 PM
If I remember correctly the M1C (not the MVAC) was mentioned having 10 TEB's to support multiple rapid countdown reset starts.

I thought that was implied for ground storage at the pad, not onboard TEA/TEB?

If someone who knows which thread the discussion of TEB count on the M1C was on then the actual source (if any) for the reference can be determined and maybe part of the answer for just how many restarts a M1DVAC can do will be answered. Adding extra Helium tanks is not difficult. Redesing the engine is.

edit fix grammer
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: LouScheffer on 12/15/2012 01:17 PM
If I remember correctly the M1C (not the MVAC) was mentioned having 10 TEB's to support multiple rapid countdown reset starts.

I thought that was implied for ground storage at the pad, not onboard TEA/TEB?

If someone who knows which thread the discussion of TEB count on the M1C was on then the actual source (if any) for the reference can be determined and maybe part of the answer for just how many restarts a M1DVAC can do will be answered. Adding extra Helium tanks is not difficult. Redesing the engine is.

edit fix grammer
Presumably the engine needs to re-ignite the gas generator as well.  How is this done?  If pyro, it would need as many sets as the main ignitors...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 12/15/2012 01:49 PM
same chemical and supply
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: simonbp on 12/17/2012 02:33 PM
That is an answer to an open question: How many restarts a Merlin-1D-Vac can perform.  Five seems to be a pretty big number.

How many can Centaur or DCSS do? I'd be willing to bet it's the same as MVAC...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: kevin-rf on 12/17/2012 03:07 PM
How many can Centaur or DCSS do? I'd be willing to bet it's the same as MVAC...
Doesn't the RL-10 use LH boil off to spin up the turbine, and a spark plug as an igniter, so the answer would be as many as it has fuel and battery for ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 12/17/2012 04:00 PM
How many can Centaur or DCSS do? I'd be willing to bet it's the same as MVAC...
Doesn't the RL-10 use LH boil off to spin up the turbine, and a spark plug as an igniter, so the answer would be as many as it has fuel and battery for ;)

and Helium for tank pressurization
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Comga on 12/17/2012 05:11 PM
TEB for ignition and Helium for spin limit number of restarts

Is the TEB stored in bulk or in discrete format, like "cartridges"?
Is it a significant issue to have sufficient TEB for many restarts?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: oldAtlas_Eguy on 12/19/2012 04:43 PM
The FY2013 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA), H.R. 4310 seems to contain funding for STP so this flight is being funded (maybe).

http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/house-and-senate-agree-on-fy2013-defense-authorization-bill-update-2 (http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/house-and-senate-agree-on-fy2013-defense-authorization-bill-update-2)

With a real reason for existing, funding for STP looks to be continued in FY2013 and later appropriations.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Moe Grills on 03/28/2013 08:54 PM
OK! A revival of this topic.
I'm trying to sort out the facts, few as they are.
The STP-2 mission, hopefully in 2015, will involve a Falcon Heavy attempting to launch a....?
(please fill in the blank).
I've checked wikipedia, spacex.com, etc., and there is supposedly
an earlier test flight at Vandenberg this year.

   I'm interested in the Falcon Heavy test-flight payloads.
Boilerplate (mockup) payloads? That's how they used to do it for
new untried launchers.

  Or maybe Elon Musk is waiting on Facebook for one of you
to suggest to him a payload to mount on a Falcon Heavy test-flight.  ;D

Rats!  :'(  I've put off registering for an account on Facebook for too long.
It's not easy trying to send Elon Musk an email with suggestions
or questions without Facebook; maybe one of you, like me have tried.

Anyways! I'm puzzled why Elon Musk hasn't planned to mount a mockup,
fullsized unmanned Dragon on the first or second Falcon Heavy and send it
on a free-return trajectory around the Moon.
What other commercial firm has ever sent any payload to the Moon at its
own expense? Did you say, Hughes Aerospace? Yes, they were the only ones so far to do it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 03/28/2013 09:08 PM
Thread title fixed. Silly me! ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: grythumn on 03/29/2013 02:00 AM
OK! A revival of this topic.
I'm trying to sort out the facts, few as they are.
The STP-2 mission, hopefully in 2015, will involve a Falcon Heavy attempting to launch a....?

Read the PDF in the first post; it has a lot of details.

COSMIC-2, DSX, between 2 and 6 auxiliary (unnamed, max 181 kg each)  payloads, up to 8 P-PODs carrying a TBD number of cubesats, and ballast.

http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20121205

-R C
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Moe Grills on 03/30/2013 08:06 PM
OK! A revival of this topic.
I'm trying to sort out the facts, few as they are.
The STP-2 mission, hopefully in 2015, will involve a Falcon Heavy attempting to launch a....?

Read the PDF in the first post; it has a lot of details.

COSMIC-2, DSX, between 2 and 6 auxiliary (unnamed, max 181 kg each)  payloads, up to 8 P-PODs carrying a TBD number of cubesats, and ballast.

http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20121205

-R C

As you've confirmed, few details available.

But regarding the other matter; (I repeat this) It's most mysterious why Elon Musk hasn't decided to mount a fullsize/full-weight mockup of the Dragon (with basic radio transmitters) and send it on a free-return trajectory around the Moon using a test-launch Falcon Heavy. I assume he's planning two FH test flights at least; one of them STP-2.
Surely people from all over the world, and from this forum
would have flooded his email box with similar suggestions?
   The Falcon Heavy is more than capable of doing the job.

There are a lot of skeptics out there who believe that SpaceX is not up to the task of sending spacecraft and crew to the Moon. They are much more
skeptical about his Mars ambitions. One Falcon Heavy test-flight with an unmanned Dragon to the Moon would silence many critics. It might not be bad if he "bumps" the Cosmic-2, DSX and cubesat payloads off that mission for just that agenda.
  ;)   I think I stirred up an hornet's nest with that one.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lar on 03/30/2013 08:08 PM

There are a lot of skeptics out there who believe that SpaceX is not up to the task of sending spacecraft and crew to the Moon. They are much more
skeptical about his Mars ambitions. One Falcon Heavy test-flight with an unmanned Dragon to the Moon would silence many critics. It might not be bad if he "bumps" the Cosmic-2, DSX and cubesat payloads off that mission for just that agenda.
  ;)   I think I stirred up an hornet's nest with that one.

I'm not sure that Elon cares a lot what the skeptics think, unless they have launch contracts or some other decision making authority that impacts him. My view is that SpaceX have their roadmap mapped out a ways, subject to change, and don't think they have a lot to prove now, except to themselves about the things they want to refine.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/30/2013 08:12 PM
It might not be bad if he "bumps" the Cosmic-2, DSX and cubesat payloads off that mission for just that agenda.
  ;)   I think I stirred up an hornet's nest with that one.

You must be joking. What could be the reason to bump a military contract, which serves as a door-opener for the EELV-class business, for a publicity stunt?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lars_J on 03/30/2013 08:32 PM
Yep, at this point they need more commercial and government payloads launched rather than stunts.

There's only going to be one FH demo where they have the leeway to test out as many features of the LV as possible - presumably they do not want to waste it on a risky BLEO Dragon stunt.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Moe Grills on 04/05/2013 10:09 PM
Yep, at this point they need more commercial and government payloads launched rather than stunts.

There's only going to be one FH demo where they have the leeway to test out as many features of the LV as possible - presumably they do not want to waste it on a risky BLEO Dragon stunt.

There's nothing wrong with your asssertion,....to a point.
Commercial launches will pad Elon's bank account. Nothing wrong with that.
But he knows, I know, you know that serious, commercial, human crew
missions to either the Moon or Mars will drain bank accounts of billions, not
pad them.
There's no doubt that Mr. Musk designed and is building Falcon Heavy
boosters for commercial purposes; but his greater agenda with the development of the FH is and was to send humans to the Moon and Mars;
a big financial drain.

OK! I'm starting to drift off topic. So to draw back, suffice to say that whether 2013, 0r 2015, the first Falcon test-flight is most unusual
in that it risks payloads built and paid for by others. Lack of insurance
must be an issue addressed here.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Kabloona on 04/05/2013 10:20 PM

the first Falcon test-flight is most unusual
in that it risks payloads built and paid for by others. Lack of insurance
must be an issue addressed here.

It's not unusual at all. Launch vehicles don't insure payloads. If the payload wants insurance, they purchase it themselves.

US gov't payloads are self-insured, which means the gov't doesn't bother to purchase insurance. If the payloads are lost, the gov't can choose to build another one. Both primary payloads here fall in that category.

Pegasus and Taurus carried payloads "built and paid for by others" on their first flights. It's common for a first flight to carry an "expendable" payload for a discounted price. The payload gets a cheap ride in exchange for the risk they take by being first in line.

What *is* unusual is the complexity of the mission with 2 primaries and multiple secondary payloads.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: arachnitect on 04/06/2013 11:02 AM

the first Falcon test-flight is most unusual
in that it risks payloads built and paid for by others. Lack of insurance
must be an issue addressed here.

It's not unusual at all. Launch vehicles don't insure payloads. If the payload wants insurance, they purchase it themselves.

US gov't payloads are self-insured, which means the gov't doesn't bother to purchase insurance. If the payloads are lost, the gov't can choose to build another one. Both primary payloads here fall in that category.

Pegasus and Taurus carried payloads "built and paid for by others" on their first flights. It's common for a first flight to carry an "expendable" payload for a discounted price. The payload gets a cheap ride in exchange for the risk they take by being first in line.

What *is* unusual is the complexity of the mission with 2 primaries and multiple secondary payloads.

STP-2 isn't the first Falcon Heavy.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 04/07/2013 01:50 AM
OK! A revival of this topic.
I'm trying to sort out the facts, few as they are.
The STP-2 mission, hopefully in 2015, will involve a Falcon Heavy attempting to launch a....?

Read the PDF in the first post; it has a lot of details.

COSMIC-2, DSX, between 2 and 6 auxiliary (unnamed, max 181 kg each)  payloads, up to 8 P-PODs carrying a TBD number of cubesats, and ballast.

http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20121205

-R C

As you've confirmed, few details available.

But regarding the other matter; (I repeat this) It's most mysterious why Elon Musk hasn't decided to mount a fullsize/full-weight mockup of the Dragon (with basic radio transmitters) and send it on a free-return trajectory around the Moon using a test-launch Falcon Heavy. I assume he's planning two FH test flights at least; one of them STP-2.
Surely people from all over the world, and from this forum
would have flooded his email box with similar suggestions?
   The Falcon Heavy is more than capable of doing the job.

There are a lot of skeptics out there who believe that SpaceX is not up to the task of sending spacecraft and crew to the Moon. They are much more
skeptical about his Mars ambitions. One Falcon Heavy test-flight with an unmanned Dragon to the Moon would silence many critics. It might not be bad if he "bumps" the Cosmic-2, DSX and cubesat payloads off that mission for just that agenda.
  ;)   I think I stirred up an hornet's nest with that one.

MANY Cubesats as a ballast? Seems like a cheap way to offer some quality space! ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Skyrocket on 07/11/2013 04:37 PM
COSMIC-2, DSX, between 2 and 6 auxiliary (unnamed, max 181 kg each)  payloads, up to 8 P-PODs carrying a TBD number of cubesats, and ballast.

http://www.spacex.com/press.php?page=20121205

-R C

One of the (up to) 6 auxiliary payloads is GPIM (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/gpim.htm) (Green Propellant Infusion Mission).

The NASA video shows it as part of the STP-2 stack:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rKYHLAThYc&feature=player_embedded
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jason1701 on 07/12/2013 06:18 AM
Great video, I think it's the first animation of the actual Falcon Heavy design.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canveral - Mid 2015
Post by: jongoff on 07/12/2013 09:14 PM
But regarding the other matter; (I repeat this) It's most mysterious why Elon Musk hasn't decided to mount a fullsize/full-weight mockup of the Dragon (with basic radio transmitters) and send it on a free-return trajectory around the Moon using a test-launch Falcon Heavy.

Simple. In spite of his sometimes bombastic manner, Elon's actually trying to not piss off those in Congress who already hate SpaceX anymore than he already has to. He's already fighting a huge battle with the Shelby's of the world to keep them from completely cutting Commercial Crew, and he doesn't need to provide them any more reason to hate and actively oppose SpaceX at the moment. This is also probably a big part of why SpaceX hasn't been supportive of Inspiration Mars, BTW. It's "bad enough" for SpaceX that us commercial people are constantly pointing out how Falcon Heavy might make SLS obsolete--the last thing he wants to do is to make it look like SpaceX is trying to make that argument too. You may not get this impression from following his Twitter feed, but Elon's actually quite capable of keeping his mouth shut and not intentionally antagonizing people in Congress who could screw his company (he's a better man than I in that regard).

Plus as others mentioned, flying paying payloads from customers that helps on-ramp them into the EELV program instead of a non-paying stunt is all the more reason not to do it.

~Jon
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: newpylong on 07/13/2013 11:28 PM
Considering the FH is estimated to be only good for 10 metric tons to TLI and the fully loaded Dragon is also 10 mt he might have a hard time doing that. They would look pretty bad sending the Dragon on a heliocentric or elliptical orbit because the US ran out of fuel before the full burn.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/13/2013 11:50 PM
Considering the FH is estimated to be only good for 10 metric tons to TLI and the fully loaded Dragon is also 10 mt he might have a hard time doing that. They would look pretty bad sending the Dragon on a heliocentric or elliptical orbit because the US ran out of fuel before the full burn.

Hmmm... I seem to remember the Falcon Heavy being able to throw more to TLI than 10 mt...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: jongoff on 07/14/2013 04:08 AM
Considering the FH is estimated to be only good for 10 metric tons to TLI and the fully loaded Dragon is also 10 mt he might have a hard time doing that. They would look pretty bad sending the Dragon on a heliocentric or elliptical orbit because the US ran out of fuel before the full burn.

Hmmm... I seem to remember the Falcon Heavy being able to throw more to TLI than 10 mt...

I think it's a little more than 10mT to TLI, but it's much more amazing at getting big stuff to LEO than shoving big stuff up the hill beyond LEO. Someone pointed out recently that Atlas V Heavy, if it flew, would have a greater TLI payload than Falcon Heavy using the currently planned upper stage. I'm a huge SpaceX fan, but ULA's Centaur upper stage is still my favorite for BEO missions (though an ACES stage would obviously win if it ever flies).

~Jon
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: QuantumG on 07/14/2013 04:29 AM
For either vehicle you get better performance using a third stage to do the TLI burn. Something like a Blok DM, which has a propellant mass fraction of 85% using LOX/RP-1, launched on a Falcon Heavy could throw 15 tons to TLI. Probably something like 20 tons using LOX/LH2.

Whether Dragon with some extra tankage, could throw itself to TLI, depends on what isp you think the Draco thruster has on-orbit, the mass of the Dragon, and a bunch of other stuff no-one knows.

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: spectre9 on 07/14/2013 07:03 AM
The Inspiration Mars paper gives a good wrap of the FH BEO capabilities.

IIRC they concluded 10mt to whatever C3 they calculated for their Mars flyby trajectory was a good guess.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/14/2013 12:51 PM
A while back on the Falcon Heavy Master Update thread someone poster:

Has SpaceX said (or has anyone surmised) what payload mass Falcon Heavy can push through TLI?

Wikipedia lists 16,000 kg through TLI, but as far as I can tell there is no basis for this figure.

16MT is what you get from mass fraction calculations using 53MT starting at LEO, a 350 ISP engine and adding the DV for TLI. Basicly thats the best. For a 450 ISP you get ~21MT TLI. Direct assent increase performance only slightly, enough to acomodate for whatever is being used as a TLI stage's dry weight.

Wikipedia did say 16,000 kg through TLI and it seems to be removed now.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Rabidpanda on 07/14/2013 05:48 PM
In order to get 16MT you would need an additional stage.  What would Falcon Heavy's TLI performance be with just it's standard upper stage? 10MT doesn't seem like a bad guess.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/14/2013 06:26 PM
In order to get 16MT you would need an additional stage.  What would Falcon Heavy's TLI performance be with just it's standard upper stage? 10MT doesn't seem like a bad guess.

Mmmm... maybe I'm being too optimistic; I think Falcon Heavy can throw more than 10mt to TLI.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: smoliarm on 07/14/2013 06:51 PM
In order to get 16MT you would need an additional stage. 
...

IF we assume 53 t to LEO, then 16 t to TLI is a consistent proportional estimate (w/o any additional stage).

Actually, a while ago in Wiki there was full set of performance numbers for FH:
LEO -- 53 t
GEO -- 19 t
TLI -- 16 t
TMI -- 14 t
C3=0 -- 13 t
(as I recall it)
also, as I understand, TLI and TMI numbers were calculated by wiki contributors.

However, later SpaceX changed their estimate of GEO performance for FH to 13 t, leaving LEO unchanged.
Wiki changed numbers accordingly.
This set is kind of strange, the proportion GEO/LEO is too low, but we do not know their reasons.
And the rocket is not built yet, many things can change.

Ed Kyle's site gives performance for FH here
http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9v1-1.html
in the table "Vehicle Configurations"

-----------
Correction:
Should be GTO, not GEO.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/14/2013 07:22 PM
IF we assume 53 t to LEO, then 16 t to TLI is a consistent proportional estimate (w/o any additional stage).

Actually, a while ago in Wiki there was full set of performance numbers for FH:
LEO -- 53 t
GEO -- 19 t
TLI -- 16 t
TMI -- 14 t
C3=0 -- 13 t
(as I recall it)
also, as I understand, TLI and TMI numbers were calculated by wiki contributors.

However, later SpaceX changed their estimate of GEO performance for FH to 13 t, leaving LEO unchanged.
Wiki changed numbers accordingly.
This set is kind of strange, the proportion GEO/LEO is too low, but we do not know their reasons.
And the rocket is not built yet, many things can change.

Ed Kyle's site gives performance for FH here
http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9v1-1.html
in the table "Vehicle Configurations"


C3 = 0 is less than TMI of 14 t... am I missing something? ???
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: smoliarm on 07/14/2013 07:47 PM
...

C3 = 0 is less than TMI of 14 t... am I missing something? ???

Well, may be you are not, may be it is my recollection :)
Now you mentioned it, perhaps it was 12 t for TMI...
or 14 t for C3=0 ...
Sorry :)

I'm not an expert in orbital calculus, although I passed my exam with A, but it was 17 years ago, and I never used these formulas since.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Rabidpanda on 07/14/2013 08:03 PM
However, later SpaceX changed their estimate of GEO performance for FH to 13 t, leaving LEO unchanged.
Wiki changed numbers accordingly.
This set is kind of strange, the proportion GEO/LEO is too low, but we do not know their reasons.
And the rocket is not built yet, many things can change.

The upper stage on Falcon Heavy is not really optimized for GEO or GTO performance.

According to SpaceX, FH can send 12mT to GTO.  The delta V for LEO to GTO is around 2.5 km/s.  Considering that TLI delta V is slightly more than that (Apollo was 3.05-3.25 km/s) 10mt to TLI seems realistic.

Of course you're right, this rocket doesn't even exist yet and a lot could change.  Honestly, if they just used a larger upper stage they would get much better BLEO performance.  But maybe that's not necessary for any of their future plans, 12mT is plenty for commercial GEO launches.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lars_J on 07/14/2013 08:47 PM
However, later SpaceX changed their estimate of GEO performance for FH to 13 t, leaving LEO unchanged.
Wiki changed numbers accordingly.
This set is kind of strange, the proportion GEO/LEO is too low, but we do not know their reasons.
And the rocket is not built yet, many things can change.

The upper stage on Falcon Heavy is not really optimized for GEO or GTO performance.

According to SpaceX, FH can send 12mT to GTO.  The delta V for LEO to GTO is around 2.5 km/s.  Considering that TLI delta V is slightly more than that (Apollo was 3.05-3.25 km/s) 10mt to TLI seems realistic.

Of course you're right, this rocket doesn't even exist yet and a lot could change.  Honestly, if they just used a larger upper stage they would get much better BLEO performance.  But maybe that's not necessary for any of their future plans, 12mT is plenty for commercial GEO launches.

But the v1.1 and FH upper stage *IS* larger... It appears to be almost twice the tank volume of the v1.0 upper stage.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Excession on 07/14/2013 11:15 PM
They could just add another stage. A wide-body centaur placed ought to be able to put twenty or thirty tons into GTO when starting from LEO, and FH could definitely put it there...

But the v1.1 and FH upper stage *IS* larger... It appears to be almost twice the tank volume of the v1.0 upper stage.

They mean relative to the V1.1.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: SpacexULA on 07/15/2013 12:18 AM
We have a Falcon Heavy speculation thread guys.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ClaytonBirchenough on 07/15/2013 01:11 AM
We have a Falcon Heavy speculation thread guys.

You're right. Sorry for contributing to OT conversation.

Here's an appropriate thread to discuss Falcon Heavy TLI payload:

http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20615.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=20615.0)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Skyrocket on 05/28/2014 09:19 AM
Another payload on this mission is the SSTL built OTB satellite

https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eoportal/satellite-missions/d/dsac
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: cartman on 05/28/2014 11:46 AM
Quote
The DSAC mission will be a hosted payload onboard a Surrey Satellite Technology (SST-US) Orbital Test Bed (OTB) spacecraft, currently planned for launch into LEO (Low Earth Obit) in early 2016
looks like this has slipped to early 2016
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: wannamoonbase on 05/29/2014 02:18 PM
They could just add another stage. A wide-body centaur placed ought to be able to put twenty or thirty tons into GTO when starting from LEO, and FH could definitely put it there...

But the v1.1 and FH upper stage *IS* larger... It appears to be almost twice the tank volume of the v1.0 upper stage.

They mean relative to the V1.1.

Now that may allow the development of re-useability technology.   
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MTom on 05/29/2014 08:22 PM
Quote
The DSAC mission will be a hosted payload onboard a Surrey Satellite Technology (SST-US) Orbital Test Bed (OTB) spacecraft, currently planned for launch into LEO (Low Earth Obit) in early 2016
looks like this has slipped to early 2016

Not sure it has slipped:
SpaceX launch manifest speaking always about "Year indicates vehicle arrival at launch site."
Launch Early 2016 could easy mach with an arrival in 2015 (+ STP-2 US Air Force is the last but one in the manifes for 2015).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: AncientU on 06/05/2014 11:44 AM
Quote
The DSAC mission will be a hosted payload onboard a Surrey Satellite Technology (SST-US) Orbital Test Bed (OTB) spacecraft, currently planned for launch into LEO (Low Earth Obit) in early 2016
looks like this has slipped to early 2016

Not sure it has slipped:
SpaceX launch manifest speaking always about "Year indicates vehicle arrival at launch site."
Launch Early 2016 could easy mach with an arrival in 2015 (+ STP-2 US Air Force is the last but one in the manifes for 2015).
First half of 2015 per Shotwell.  Also, tanks and engines currently being built at Hawthorne.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34884.msg1209634#msg1209634
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34884.msg1209997#msg1209997
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MTom on 06/05/2014 09:12 PM
Quote
The DSAC mission will be a hosted payload onboard a Surrey Satellite Technology (SST-US) Orbital Test Bed (OTB) spacecraft, currently planned for launch into LEO (Low Earth Obit) in early 2016
looks like this has slipped to early 2016

Not sure it has slipped:
SpaceX launch manifest speaking always about "Year indicates vehicle arrival at launch site."
Launch Early 2016 could easy mach with an arrival in 2015 (+ STP-2 US Air Force is the last but one in the manifes for 2015).
First half of 2015 per Shotwell.  Also, tanks and engines currently being built at Hawthorne.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34884.msg1209634#msg1209634
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34884.msg1209997#msg1209997

You mean the demo flight, it's ok.

The question was if STP-2 for US Air Force slipped also or it isn't.
Can be found any information about the original planned launch date?
"Early 2016" is the actual date.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: AncientU on 06/06/2014 10:46 AM
Quote
The DSAC mission will be a hosted payload onboard a Surrey Satellite Technology (SST-US) Orbital Test Bed (OTB) spacecraft, currently planned for launch into LEO (Low Earth Obit) in early 2016
looks like this has slipped to early 2016

Not sure it has slipped:
SpaceX launch manifest speaking always about "Year indicates vehicle arrival at launch site."
Launch Early 2016 could easy mach with an arrival in 2015 (+ STP-2 US Air Force is the last but one in the manifes for 2015).
First half of 2015 per Shotwell.  Also, tanks and engines currently being built at Hawthorne.
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34884.msg1209634#msg1209634
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=34884.msg1209997#msg1209997

You mean the demo flight, it's ok.

The question was if STP-2 for US Air Force slipped also or it isn't.
Can be found any information about the original planned launch date?
"Early 2016" is the actual date.
Sorry, missed that. You're correct.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: DaveJes1979 on 06/12/2014 10:39 PM
Does anyone actually believe that the demo flight is going to be out of KSC?  I know that is what they are currently saying, but it doesn't seem likely that that pad will be ready in time if they are sticking with a "first half of 2015" time frame.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: QuantumG on 06/12/2014 10:41 PM
Does anyone actually believe that the demo flight is going to be out of KSC?  I know that is what they are currently saying, but it doesn't seem likely that that pad will be ready in time if they are sticking with a "first half of 2015" time frame.

I don't think there's any point doing the demo until they have this while lawsuit business sorted out, anyway.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jcc on 06/13/2014 01:10 AM
Does anyone actually believe that the demo flight is going to be out of KSC?  I know that is what they are currently saying, but it doesn't seem likely that that pad will be ready in time if they are sticking with a "first half of 2015" time frame.

I don't think there's any point doing the demo until they have this while lawsuit business sorted out, anyway.

I don't see why that would be the case. They need to demo FH if they want to attract customers for it.
I'm am curious about why they switched to KSC though, maybe they have a payload that needs to launch east.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: QuantumG on 06/13/2014 01:15 AM
I don't see why that would be the case. They need to demo FH if they want to attract customers for it.

Unless there's been a drastic change, the only customer for this behemoth is the US air force.

The commsat folks would demand a lot more than just the one demonstration flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ChefPat on 06/13/2014 01:29 AM
I don't see why that would be the case. They need to demo FH if they want to attract customers for it.

Unless there's been a drastic change, the only customer for this behemoth is the US air force.

The commsat folks would demand a lot more than just the one demonstration flight.

Bigelow.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: QuantumG on 06/13/2014 01:30 AM
Bigelow.

Yeah, right.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: docmordrid on 06/13/2014 02:37 AM
I don't see why that would be the case. They need to demo FH if they want to attract customers for it.

Unless there's been a drastic change, the only customer for this behemoth is the US air force.

The commsat folks would demand a lot more than just the one demonstration flight.

Bigelow, if the 5.2x19m fairing is any indication.  Seems perfect, if not purpose built, for BA-330.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Antares on 06/13/2014 02:54 AM
There is a very good reason not to do demos out of the Cape, now that a Vandy launch site is available: the lack of beaches full of tourists and news crews, all filming the possible unscheduled fireworks display.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: docmordrid on 06/13/2014 03:02 AM
Go check YouTube for videos of the CASSIOPE launch at Vandy.  There are plenty of places where a launch accident there could be seen & filmed by the public and news mongers
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: king1999 on 06/13/2014 03:05 AM
There is a very good reason not to do demos out of the Cape, now that a Vandy launch site is available: the lack of beaches full of tourists and news crews, all filming the possible unscheduled fireworks display.
I think the last few words were what you wanted to say, but tried to dress it unsuccessfully. An old Russian engine is more likely to make it a July 4  for the US then 27 newly built and tested ones.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Antares on 06/13/2014 05:13 AM
I think the last few words were what you wanted to say, but tried to dress it unsuccessfully. An old Russian engine is more likely to make it a July 4  for the US then 27 newly built and tested ones.

No, unlike what I'm typing right now, I said exactly what I wanted to say.  I will assume you're just new and don't realize that my moniker preceded the renamed launch vehicle by more than 4 years.

Pros know the relative reliability of the two launch systems, and pros in any business seek to minimize PR fall out.  SpaceX is in a high-stakes PR match with FAR 15 Old Space right now.  The Cape is much more accessible than Vandenberg.  Places to watch from are less important than opportunity to do so.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 06/13/2014 05:26 AM
I'm am curious about why they switched to KSC though, maybe they have a payload that needs to launch east.

I'm guessing that KSC was chosen so that a used Dragon could be sent around the Moon on FH's first flight. I'm sure the connection to LC-39A having launched Apollo will not be lost on some.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jcc on 06/13/2014 10:57 AM
I'm am curious about why they switched to KSC though, maybe they have a payload that needs to launch east.

I'm guessing that KSC was chosen so that a used Dragon could be sent around the Moon on FH's first flight. I'm sure the connection to LC-39A having launched Apollo will not be lost on some.

Nice thought, but they won't want to get NASA angry by upstaging Orion/SLS.
Speaking of NASA, they are a potential customer for interplanetary missions, including Mars.

First flight out of 39A is likely to have pad issues, maybe they want to shake those out on a demo flight rather than a CRS mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: woods170 on 06/13/2014 11:38 AM
I'm am curious about why they switched to KSC though, maybe they have a payload that needs to launch east.

I'm guessing that KSC was chosen so that a used Dragon could be sent around the Moon on FH's first flight. I'm sure the connection to LC-39A having launched Apollo will not be lost on some.

Nice thought, but they won't want to get NASA angry by upstaging Orion/SLS.
Speaking of NASA, they are a potential customer for interplanetary missions, including Mars.
That would not actually upset NASA but mostly Congress critters.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 06/13/2014 11:40 AM
I'm am curious about why they switched to KSC though, maybe they have a payload that needs to launch east.

I'm guessing that KSC was chosen so that a used Dragon could be sent around the Moon on FH's first flight. I'm sure the connection to LC-39A having launched Apollo will not be lost on some.

Np, they chose it for this payload, STP-2.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MTom on 06/13/2014 11:55 AM
I'm am curious about why they switched to KSC though, maybe they have a payload that needs to launch east.

I'm guessing that KSC was chosen so that a used Dragon could be sent around the Moon on FH's first flight. I'm sure the connection to LC-39A having launched Apollo will not be lost on some.

Np, they chose it for this payload, STP-2.

Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Jim on 06/13/2014 01:20 PM

Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)

They will be one and the same
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 06/13/2014 01:49 PM

Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)

They will be one and the same

Is there any written source that can confirm this? (although it is an obvious choice for the FH maiden flight)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MTom on 06/13/2014 07:21 PM

Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)

They will be one and the same

Is there any written source that can confirm this? (although it is an obvious choice for the FH maiden flight)

SpaceX launch manifest (still) says there will be two launches: FH demo flight and STP-2 for USAF.
Something changed?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Dudely on 06/13/2014 08:03 PM
I don't see why that would be the case. They need to demo FH if they want to attract customers for it.

Unless there's been a drastic change, the only customer for this behemoth is the US air force.

The commsat folks would demand a lot more than just the one demonstration flight.

Bigelow, if the 5.2x19m fairing is any indication.  Seems perfect, if not purpose built, for BA-330.

Yes, they have been building hardware to fly on FH specifically. They already have some completed and are waiting in storage to launch (remember FH has been delayed 2 years+).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: docmordrid on 06/13/2014 08:30 PM
Anyone know if Thin Red Line in Canada is still working with Bigelow?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: sublimemarsupial on 06/13/2014 08:32 PM

I don't see why that would be the case. They need to demo FH if they want to attract customers for it.

Unless there's been a drastic change, the only customer for this behemoth is the US air force.

The commsat folks would demand a lot more than just the one demonstration flight.

Bigelow, if the 5.2x19m fairing is any indication.  Seems perfect, if not purpose built, for BA-330.

Yes, they have been building hardware to fly on FH specifically. They already have some completed and are waiting in storage to launch (remember FH has been delayed 2 years+).

Do you have a source for that?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/13/2014 09:43 PM
Right then.

Let's all get on topic with THIS mission.

From this point onwards. Don't make me get out my big stick.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Llian Rhydderch on 06/13/2014 10:54 PM

Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)

They will be one and the same

Is there any written source that can confirm this? (although it is an obvious choice for the FH maiden flight)

So, do we have a source for the idea that the STP-2 payload will fly on the FH demo flight, the maiden flight of Falcon Heavy???

Jim claims it will be.

I realize that there are some insiders here, and that they may possibly have, and then choose to make public, such inside information.   But we are all better off if we know if a claim is from someone who is claiming inside knowledge, or if the information has been publically stated.

Let's make the implicit, explicit!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: QuantumG on 06/14/2014 12:51 AM
Quote
1.3  MISSION OBJECTIVES
The goals of the SM-2.4 mission are to launch an Integrated Payload Stack (IPS) to the required
orbits and to provide an EELV New Entrant opportunity.


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Llian Rhydderch on 06/14/2014 03:04 AM
Quote
1.3  MISSION OBJECTIVES
The goals of the SM-2.4 mission are to launch an Integrated Payload Stack (IPS) to the required
orbits and to provide an EELV New Entrant opportunity.

Thanks QG. 

So I don't have the full context for the quote you provided..., but as I read it, it says nothing about the SM-2.4 mission (STP-2, I guess, based on the title of this thread) flying on the maiden flight of the Falcon Heavy.  In fact, that statement doesn't seem to indicate which ordinal FH flight STP-2 will fly on.

So I either Jim is not correct with his statement of "They will be one and the same" on a post following a substantive comment about "STP-2 and not FH demo flight" that immediately preceded his comment:


Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)

They will be one and the same

... or, if he didn't mean what that locution seemed to say, then I don't understand Jim's abbreviated prose.  In this case, Galactic Penquin, MTom and I all seemed to take it as FH flight 1 == STP-2 USG payload.

But actually, understanding Jim seems to be a problem many of us on these forums often seem to run into :o.   Communication is hard!   :D 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: baldusi on 06/14/2014 11:50 AM
He's the guy with most insight into this things. I would tend to think that he simply knows.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MTom on 06/14/2014 12:09 PM
Quote
1.3  MISSION OBJECTIVES
The goals of the SM-2.4 mission are to launch an Integrated Payload Stack (IPS) to the required
orbits and to provide an EELV New Entrant opportunity.

Thanks QG. 

So I don't have the full context for the quote you provided..., but as I read it, it says nothing about the SM-2.4 mission (STP-2, I guess, based on the title of this thread) flying on the maiden flight of the Falcon Heavy.  In fact, that statement doesn't seem to indicate which ordinal FH flight STP-2 will fly on.

So I either Jim is not correct with his statement of "They will be one and the same" on a post following a substantive comment about "STP-2 and not FH demo flight" that immediately preceded his comment:


Jim's post is a good point to come back on topic: STP-2 and not FH demo flight.   ;)

They will be one and the same

... or, if he didn't mean what that locution seemed to say, then I don't understand Jim's abbreviated prose.  In this case, Galactic Penquin, MTom and I all seemed to take it as FH flight 1 == STP-2 USG payload.

But actually, understanding Jim seems to be a problem many of us on these forums often seem to run into :o.   Communication is hard!   :D

Yes, that is also my question, because SpaceX launch manifest lists (still?) 2 FH flights.
(With the information mentioned before: STP-2 launch date is early 2016...)
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=30544.msg1205265#msg1205265
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-40, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: russianhalo117 on 06/14/2014 03:34 PM
The title needs to be updated to reflect the move of FH from SLC-40 to SLC-39A.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 06/14/2014 06:02 PM
Done.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: MTom on 06/14/2014 09:25 PM
The title needs to be updated to reflect the move of FH from SLC-40 to SLC-39A.

... and the launch date could be also: Mid 2015 --> Early 2016

Edit/CR: updated from SLC-40 to SLC-39A in post title
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: docmordrid on 10/19/2014 07:29 AM
Space News reports a slip into 2016

Link.... (http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/42221nasa-green-propellant-mission-to-host-three-pentagon-experiments)

Quote
SpaceX’s public manifest shows the STP-2 mission launching in 2015, but Ball [Aerospace] said it has pushed to 2016.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: tobi453 on 10/19/2014 08:02 AM
So there will be a different payload on the FH maiden flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Skyrocket on 10/19/2014 06:56 PM
Interessting document on the FORMOSAT-7/COSMIC-2 satellites with info on the payload stack
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: somepitch on 10/19/2014 07:12 PM
That's a remarkable failed attempt at spelling "courtesy" on that slide...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: arachnitect on 10/19/2014 07:14 PM
Interessting document on the FORMOSAT-7/COSMIC-2 satellites with info on the payload stack

I didn't recognize that at first.

I thought the previous design looked really cool. But I guess the new version (using ESPA rings) is probably a good choice.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: ugordan on 10/19/2014 07:16 PM
So there will be a different payload on the FH maiden flight.

Or (gasp!) FH will slip into 2016...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: veblen on 10/19/2014 07:43 PM
That's a remarkable failed attempt at spelling "courtesy" on that slide...

And it gets replicated. He probably relied on spell check. Typical result.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lars-J on 10/19/2014 07:59 PM
That's a remarkable failed attempt at spelling "courtesy" on that slide...

And it gets replicated. He probably replied on spell check. Typical result.

Intentional irony?  ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: veblen on 10/19/2014 08:28 PM
That's a remarkable failed attempt at spelling "courtesy" on that slide...

And it gets replicated. He probably replied on spell check. Typical result.

Intentional irony?  ;D

That sounds much better than brain fart;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - SLC-39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Moe Grills on 10/19/2014 09:51 PM
The title needs to be updated to reflect the move of FH from SLC-40 to SLC-39A.

... and the launch date could be also: Mid 2015 --> Early 2016

Edit/CR: updated from SLC-40 to SLC-39A in post title
Could, maybe, likely, but still an opinion until the launch schedule firms up.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/22/2014 12:01 PM
From page 25 of that Formosat 7/Cosmic 2 presentation, launch is scheduled for May 2016.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Chris Bergin on 10/22/2014 02:19 PM
Reminder, this is not a party thread, so silly posts have and will be removed.

Sorry!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Karloss12 on 10/22/2014 10:19 PM
From page 25 of that Formosat 7/Cosmic 2 presentation, launch is scheduled for May 2016.

Sounds about right.  With the launch pad due for completion in mid 2015, FH Demo will be Q4 of 2015 leaving a few months to review flight data for STP-2.

I recon they will be fully recovering the side cores by then, even of the Demo flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: macpacheco on 01/27/2015 12:01 PM
I hope I can say this much. Interesting news on L2 about this.
Let's hope Chris doesn't slap me for saying this little.
 ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 01/27/2015 12:07 PM
BTW, I have to say that it gives me a silly thrill to once again see in a launch discussion thread Launch Complex 39A. ;D
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: mtakala24 on 01/27/2015 06:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ca6x4QbpoM
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: llanitedave on 01/27/2015 07:27 PM
The TE seems to be sheathed with sheet metal in the video.  Is that new?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Comga on 01/27/2015 07:32 PM
Verry nice!
Of course everyone wants something different.  I would have liked to see the center core land on the barge "Instructions".  Butif we wait until we see what SpaceX will really do we won't need these spectatular annimations, so this is a wonderful preview. 

edit: The grid fins droop after touchdown like F9R-Dev1!  Fantastic detailing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Lars-J on 01/27/2015 07:34 PM
The TE seems to be sheathed with sheet metal in the video.  Is that new?

New, or the modeling/animation crew avoiding modeling the TE accurately. ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Space OurSoul on 01/27/2015 08:19 PM
NERD CHILLS
Did y'all catch the braces retracting back into the center core after booster sep? (0:36s or so)

Edit: My bad. There's a stand-alone thread for the video:
http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36660.0 (http://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=36660.0)

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: guckyfan on 01/27/2015 09:11 PM
Is the Mid 2015 in the thread title new?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Ben the Space Brit on 01/27/2015 09:40 PM
Re.: The FH promo video: I wouldn't be surprised if, for the heaviest payloads, the central core landed on the barge in the mid-Atlantic somewhere.

Still, for average-sized payloads, the boosters and the main core should all make it back to KSC. Seeing them landing all in a neat row IRL will be quite the sight!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: deadman719 on 01/27/2015 09:45 PM
Re the FH video: Are there any concerns with sound waves bouncing off the fixed srevice structure, if it is enclosed and given its size, as the vehicle launches?  Would it be correct to assume enclosing it would be an attempt to lower maintenance costs by reducing the number of components exposed to the elements? 

Deadman
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 01/28/2015 01:07 AM
Is the Mid 2015 in the thread title new?

Nope, it's actually very old. I've changed the title to reflect what was reported one page back.  ;)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - Mid 2015
Post by: guckyfan on 01/28/2015 05:12 AM
Is the Mid 2015 in the thread title new?

Nope, it's actually very old. I've changed the title to reflect what was reported one page back.  ;)

Thanks. That is what I meant. It is new in the title, not that the data is new.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 01/28/2015 06:14 AM
There seems to be a "bump" about 1/3 of the way up on the boosters. I wonder if this has anything to with the cross-feed mechanism.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Lars-J on 01/28/2015 07:18 AM

There seems to be a "bump" about 1/3 of the way up on the boosters. I wonder if this has anything to with the cross-feed mechanism.

No, that exists on all F9s, although it is usually not very visible since it faces the erector at launch. (See image below) It is placed right around the common bulkhead, so it may be some kind of emergency tank vent.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Rebel44 on 04/26/2015 08:08 AM
How much delta v will this mission require?

thx
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 04/28/2015 05:06 AM
Here's a JPL press release on the Deep Space Atomic Clock mission which is flying on STP-2. Only says it is flying in 2016 on Falcon Heavy.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4567
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Skyrocket on 04/28/2015 06:06 AM
Here's a JPL press release on the Deep Space Atomic Clock mission which is flying on STP-2. Only says it is flying in 2016 on Falcon Heavy.

http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4567

The Deep Space Atomic Clock is a hosted experiment on the OTB 1 satellite: http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/otb-1.htm
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Jakusb on 03/09/2016 08:29 PM
According to Jeff Foust:
Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX: expect first Falcon Heavy launch now late this year, three more to follow in subsequent 6 months. #satshow

Anybody care/dare to speculate on what this means?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - 2016
Post by: Robotbeat on 03/09/2016 08:46 PM
According to Jeff Foust:
Gwynne Shotwell, SpaceX: expect first Falcon Heavy launch now late this year, three more to follow in subsequent 6 months. #satshow

Anybody care/dare to speculate on what this means?
Sounds like they're realigning the projected Falcon Heavy launch date to realign with reality.

However, 3 more Falcon Heavies within 6 months from that shows a big ramp-up production. That's a total of 12 boosters, and 112 Merlin engines and 48 legs and 48 fins. But many are likely to RTLS at least the boosters, which they've already shown they can pull off...

...which implies to me at least SOME components could be reused.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - December, 2016
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 06/25/2016 03:59 AM
Attached is an ELaNa presentation giving a launch date of 1 March 2017 (under review) for STP 2. This flight is carrying three cubesats on ELaNa XV; ARMADILLO, LEO and StangSat.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET Sept. 2017
Post by: gongora on 12/07/2016 06:31 PM
Planetary Society: Ground finale? Deployment test moves LightSail 2 closer to handoff (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2016/20161206-ls2-boom-only-ditl.html)
Quote
The Planetary Society's LightSail 2 spacecraft completed what may have been its final end-to-end systems test today here at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo...
LightSail 2 is nearly ready to be integrated with its P-POD, the spring-loaded box that will carry it to space. After integration takes place, the loaded P-POD will be shipped to the Air Force Research Laboratory in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Shipping may occur in January. At AFRL, LightSail's P-POD will be installed inside Prox-1, a Georgia Tech-built SmallSat that will hitch a ride to orbit aboard the second flight of SpaceX's new Falcon Heavy rocket.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET Sept. 2017
Post by: gongora on 01/25/2017 09:35 PM
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/824371954559836160 (https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/824371954559836160)
Quote
In talk on COSMIC-2, NOAA says Falcon Heavy demo launch scheduled for 2nd Q; STP-2 mission (with COSMIC-2) planned for Sept. 30. #AMS2017
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET Sept. 2017
Post by: butters on 03/09/2017 11:49 PM
Is this mission still okay following the last-minute issues with the 2017 authorization bill?

It seemed that the STP program was flagged as one of the concerns for the WH/DOJ?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET Sept. 2017
Post by: tater on 03/10/2017 01:31 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/824371954559836160 (https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/824371954559836160)
Quote
In talk on COSMIC-2, NOAA says Falcon Heavy demo launch scheduled for 2nd Q; STP-2 mission (with COSMIC-2) planned for Sept. 30. #AMS2017

Where would they launch it when they have no pad ready for it?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET Sept. 2017
Post by: Jim_LAX on 03/10/2017 04:11 PM
Quote from Shotwell at Satelite 2017 on March 8th:
Cape Canaveral’s Space Launch Complex-40 should be operational again this summer.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: woods170 on 03/10/2017 08:19 PM
Quote from Shotwell at Satelite 2017 on March 8th:
Cape Canaveral’s Space Launch Complex-40 should be operational again this summer.
August was publically mentioned by SpaceX. After that, SpaceX will need at least 60 days to modify the current LC-39A reaction frame to host the additional TSM's and holddown posts needed for FH. That period is also from public SpaceX statements.
So, assuming LC-40 is back in action this August, and assuming the 60-day modification period goes off without a hitch, it will be NET november 2017 for first FH launch attempt.
But that is assuming that the notorious SpaceX time dilation factor does not rear it's ugly head. If it does (like it almost always does) we could be looking at first FH launch attempt somewhere in Q1 of 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: DOCinCT on 03/10/2017 09:14 PM
Quote from Shotwell at Satelite 2017 on March 8th:
Cape Canaveral’s Space Launch Complex-40 should be operational again this summer.
....After that, SpaceX will need at least 60 days to modify the current LC-39A reaction frame to host the additional TSM's and holddown posts needed for FH. That period is also from public SpaceX statements.
So, assuming LC-40 is back in action this August, and assuming the 60-day modification period goes off without a hitch, ....
Do you have some references for that statement?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: old_sellsword on 03/10/2017 09:20 PM
Quote from Shotwell at Satelite 2017 on March 8th:
Cape Canaveral’s Space Launch Complex-40 should be operational again this summer.
....After that, SpaceX will need at least 60 days to modify the current LC-39A reaction frame to host the additional TSM's and holddown posts needed for FH. That period is also from public SpaceX statements.
So, assuming LC-40 is back in action this August, and assuming the 60-day modification period goes off without a hitch, ....
Do you have some references for that statement?

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2017/03/spacex-falcon-9-echostar-23-slc-40-return/

Quote from: Chris Bergin
It was also noted that SpaceX is working a plan that involves returning operations to SLC-40 before then working on 39A to prepare it for the maiden launch of the Falcon Heavy rocket.

This work will take “at least 60 days” to complete, focusing on the 39A TEL table – which is currently specific to the single core Falcon 9 – and Tail Service Masts (TSM).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: Pete on 03/11/2017 05:58 AM
...So, assuming LC-40 is back in action this August, and assuming the 60-day modification period goes off without a hitch, it will be NET november 2018 for first FH launch attempt.
But that is assuming that the notorious SpaceX time dilation factor does not rear it's ugly head.
...
One would have to look hard to find a time dilation factor as bad as yours.
"this August" + 60 days == NET November 2018?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: ugordan on 03/11/2017 08:13 AM
...So, assuming LC-40 is back in action this August, and assuming the 60-day modification period goes off without a hitch, it will be NET november 2018 for first FH launch attempt.
But that is assuming that the notorious SpaceX time dilation factor does not rear it's ugly head.
...
One would have to look hard to find a time dilation factor as bad as yours.
"this August" + 60 days == NET November 2018?

Well, he did get the year right at least...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: woods170 on 03/11/2017 02:50 PM
...So, assuming LC-40 is back in action this August, and assuming the 60-day modification period goes off without a hitch, it will be NET november 2018 for first FH launch attempt.
But that is assuming that the notorious SpaceX time dilation factor does not rear it's ugly head.
...
One would have to look hard to find a time dilation factor as bad as yours.
"this August" + 60 days == NET November 2018?
Good catch. Corrected in the original post. And thanks for pointing out.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy - STP-2 mission - 39A, Cape Canaveral - NET 2017
Post by: sdsds on 03/21/2017 07:44 PM
Although the launcher isn't explicitly mentioned, this article belongs here. (Yes?)

https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=6784

Last month, the space agency's next-generation atomic clock was joined to the spacecraft that will take it into orbit in late 2017.

That instrument, the Deep Space Atomic Clock was developed by NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. On Feb. 17, JPL engineers monitored integration of the clock on to the Surrey Orbital Test Bed spacecraft at Surrey Satellite Technology in Englewood, Colorado.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2017
Post by: gongora on 05/25/2017 04:42 AM
A recent presentation on the Cosmic-2 payload by Wei Xia-Serafino/NOAA.  PDF file is attached below.  There is an updated graphic of the STP-2 payload stack, and much information/pictures on Cosmic-2 of course.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: Formica on 07/02/2017 02:41 AM
What is the purpose of the 5 tonnes of ballast on this mission? Is it simply to ensure that FH is capable of meeting the EELV New Entrant specifications?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: woods170 on 07/02/2017 11:50 AM
What is the purpose of the 5 tonnes of ballast on this mission? Is it simply to ensure that FH is capable of meeting the EELV New Entrant specifications?
No. The launcher is too powerfull for just the payload alone. It requires additional payload mass (provided by means of ballast) to prevent over-performance.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: Pete on 07/02/2017 12:38 PM
About the date for this mission, it reminds me of a movie .

"Mission Impossible"?  no, that's not it
.
"Back to the Future"?  closer
.
"Days of our Lives"? almost
.
I have it.. Annie, singing "Tomorrow, Tomorrow, i love ya, your only a day away"


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: vaporcobra on 07/21/2017 12:57 PM
Potentially great news. STP-2 is NET April 30th, 2018, according to the USAF.
http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2017/20170721-lightsail-2-updates-prox-1-launch-dates.html (http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2017/20170721-lightsail-2-updates-prox-1-launch-dates.html)
Title: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: Star One on 08/07/2017 07:00 PM
That date appears again in this tweet from Jeff Foust showing a chart of educational nanosatellites missions.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/894608571186388992
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: gongora on 08/07/2017 08:26 PM
I'm not going to believe any dates on this one yet, let's see how the first couple flights go.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: Star One on 08/07/2017 08:32 PM
I'm not going to believe any dates on this one yet, let's see how the first couple flights go.

Isn't this the second FH flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: tvg98 on 08/07/2017 08:36 PM
I'm not going to believe any dates on this one yet, let's see how the first couple flights go.

Isn't this the second FH flight.

I thought Arabsat 6A was the second flight no?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: vaporcobra on 08/07/2017 08:40 PM
I'm not going to believe any dates on this one yet, let's see how the first couple flights go.

Isn't this the second FH flight.

Based on the link in my response above, the AF has reason to believe STP-2 could be the third FH launch. But it's understandably in flux and highly dependent upon the first launch. As gongora said, our best bet is to just wait for the first launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: titusou on 08/18/2017 04:36 PM
I'd talk with NSPO (Taiwan) team today. It's NET Apr,2018 right now.
Titus
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: vaporcobra on 08/18/2017 06:13 PM
I'd talk with NSPO (Taiwan) team today. It's NET Apr,2018 right now.
Titus

Thanks! Tentatively indicates that the inaugural launch is still relatively stable for now. Can't really read far into future schedules until FH's first success, but SpaceX is clearly relatively confident in the vehicle, at least internally.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Kenp51d on 08/18/2017 07:13 PM
I'd talk with NSPO (Taiwan) team today. It's NET Apr,2018 right now.
Titus

Thanks! Tentatively indicates that the inaugural launch is still relatively stable for now. Can't really read far into future schedules until FH's first success, but SpaceX is clearly relatively confident in the vehicle, at least internally.
Mr. Musk puplicly lowered expectations, but I'd bet internally they are very confident of at least safely clearing the pad at minimum. So is NASA, they sure as heck are not willing to loose the pad for manned flights.
If they can make it past Max Q, and can throttle down for that, then my bet is successful booster sep, stage sep, and they then make orbit.
This is gonna be way cool!
Just unimagenabl to me they'd risk the pad.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: AncientU on 08/18/2017 08:16 PM
They wouldn't be launching if they thought the chance of failure was high.
Think about it...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Space Ghost 1962 on 08/18/2017 08:37 PM
It's logistics/operations that one should fear before T0. So much has to go right before you make it to ignition. Could sit on the pad for a month. Complex beast, more like 5x the trouble for three boosters.

Next, it's the hold down time and validating vehicle before launch and after ignition. Static fire?

Then its that all the clamps go. Otherwise engine shutdown.

After off the pad, very likely to clear the tower, and find out how well the acoustics worked. Very loud as things don't scale linearly (overtones).

At some point leading up to MaxQ, the torques between the three boosters will attempt to tear apart the stack. But likely the oscillations will be damped and fall by flight software (to be later analyzed to improve vehicle performance). This starts where the most critical phase begins, ending with engine shutdown and side booster separation.

If they get through that, FH is a success as far as having a potential alternative to DIVH, which we haven't yet had ever. (Ironically, it increases DIVH's value because you have multiple alternatives so more payloads can be considered, although doubtful that has any meaning.)

Having three returning boosters land after that would be a showy tour de force.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: gongora on 08/18/2017 09:23 PM
Ya'll realize this isn't the Demo Mission thread, right?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Space Ghost 1962 on 08/18/2017 09:51 PM
Applies to both. Actually, to the third flight as well, but lesser.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: IainMcClatchie on 08/20/2017 09:49 PM
....After off the pad, very likely to clear the tower, and find out how well the acoustics worked. Very loud as things don't scale linearly (overtones).

Can you elaborate how overtones don't scale linearly?  That is, how three cores would produce more than three times as much accoustic pressure in some direction.

My best guess is that you might get a bit of a phased array effect normal to the axis of attachment.

I'm also expecting something interesting to happen to the core plume as all three get underexpanded in the upper atmosphere.  A single core plume gets to expand in two dimensions.  A center core of three really only  expands along one dimension.  My guess is they'll get more of the plume crawling it's way up the sides of the rocket.  Combined with a longer burn time from running throttled down part of the way, and that center core is going to see a significantly toastier ride on the way up.  But maybe that's dominated by re-entry and landing.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: tyrred on 08/21/2017 05:03 AM
It would be interesting if the combined exhaust plumes have the appearance of the three-engine landing burns, three hydras expanding perpendicular to the core arrangement. Great big eye of Sauron?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Mike_1179 on 08/21/2017 02:48 PM
It would be interesting if the combined exhaust plumes have the appearance of the three-engine landing burns, three hydras expanding perpendicular to the core arrangement. Great big eye of Sauron?


Would have to fire up the CFD to do more than arm-waving, but remember that the 3-engine re-entry burn is done when the stage is traveling supersonic and engine first, so you get some pretty interesting shockwaves and boundary conditions. A stage accelerating up with three cores burning would look, well, different.

There's no shockwaves forcing the exhaust and firey bits into a small cone shape when the stage is going up. Instead the exhaust expands outward radially like you see from the 9 engines of a F9 as it gets closer to MECO. However, the boosters are gone well before the stage gets up as high as the F9 MECO, so we won't see the super-wide plumes we're used to seeing from all three boosters firing simultaneously. Might just be a more orange and more sooty version of a Delta IV Heavy.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Jim on 08/21/2017 03:04 PM
It would be interesting if the combined exhaust plumes have the appearance of the three-engine landing burns, three hydras expanding perpendicular to the core arrangement. Great big eye of Sauron?


It shouldn't be much different than the two RD-180 nozzles.  Just a large scale..
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: OneSpeed on 08/22/2017 09:17 AM
My best guess is that you might get a bit of a phased array effect normal to the axis of attachment.

That would be very likely for the shock wave interaction between the plumes. However, acoustic phased array effects are strongest when each source is outputting the same waveform, like in a PA system. In the case of rocket engines, the flow is turbulent, so although the spectrum is reasonably consistent over time, the waveforms are independent. The rms response can be obtained by combining those waveforms, but the result, especially at higher frequencies, can be quite chaotic, leading to effects like the crackling sound we hear from Falcon 9 and others.

It would be interesting if the combined exhaust plumes have the appearance of the three-engine landing burns, three hydras expanding perpendicular to the core arrangement. Great big eye of Sauron?
... Instead the exhaust expands outward radially like you see from the 9 engines of a F9 as it gets closer to MECO. However, the boosters are gone well before the stage gets up as high as the F9 MECO, so we won't see the super-wide plumes we're used to seeing from all three boosters firing simultaneously ...

Although the FH boosters will stage earlier, due to FH's phenomenal T/W, they will do so at a similar altitude and higher velocity than the F9 core. Forgive the crude rendering, but the plume could be quite spectacular.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 09/15/2017 09:14 AM
Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 35s seconds ago

Taiwan NSPO: Six US/Taiwan Formosat-7/COSMIC-2 sats to launch Q2 2018 on @SpaceX Falcon Heavy; will be 1st launch after Nov FH demo flight.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/908619097189027840

If I'm reading the above correctly, that puts 2nd FH flight in Q2 2018 so STP-2 presumably pushes back?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 09/15/2017 09:28 AM
Quote
Peter B. de Selding‏ @pbdes 35s seconds ago

Taiwan NSPO: Six US/Taiwan Formosat-7/COSMIC-2 sats to launch Q2 2018 on @SpaceX Falcon Heavy; will be 1st launch after Nov FH demo flight.

https://twitter.com/pbdes/status/908619097189027840

If I'm reading the above correctly, that puts 2nd FH flight in Q2 2018 so STP-2 presumably pushes back?

They are actually one of the main payloads on the STP-2 flight.  ;)

That means the Arabsat flight once reported to be 2nd in queue must have slipped behind.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 10/30/2017 09:16 PM
This report on Formosat 5 has at the end I believe a paragraph on Formosat 7, flying along with STP-2.

https://www.inside.com.tw/2017/10/30/formosat-5-cmos-modify

The Bing translation is

"On the other hand, a few days ago, because the United States funds can not be put in place, the Space Center canceled the second group of seventh, the launch plan, and Zhang Liaowan insists on the current status of the progress of the seven. Chen Liangki responded that the current satellite of the first group of Fowei seventh had been placed in the plant and was expected to be launched on schedule next 5 June."

If my understanding is correct, this means the launch has been delayed to 5 June 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: gongora on 10/31/2017 01:22 AM
The Bing translation doesn't seem to be correct.  In the manifest thread this was posted earlier:

NSPO still hopes to launch Formosat-7 sats in May/June, 2018
https://www.inside.com.tw/2017/10/30/formosat-5-cmos-modify

The May/June timeframe is also mentioned in this English language article:
[Focus Taiwan] FormoSat-7 satellite group to be launched in mid-2018 (http://focustaiwan.tw/news/ast/201710300017.aspx)
Quote
A constellation of six satellites under the FormoSat-7/COSMIC-2 project, a U.S.-Taiwan collaboration, will be launched in May or June next year, Taiwan's Science and Technology Minister Chen Liang-gee (陳良基) said Monday.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: cscott on 11/21/2017 04:59 PM
From Gwynne's recent interview (http://spacenews.com/spacex-aims-to-follow-a-banner-year-with-an-even-faster-2018-launch-cadence/):
Quote
“We should ship the first Block 5 this year,” she said. “We are going to spend some time in Texas testing it, [then] it should fly in late Q1.”
[...]
Shotwell said the Block 5 Falcon 9 should be able to refly “10 or more times” with limited refurbishment. The Falcon Heavy will also use Block 5 cores, she said, with the exception of the first mission.

Having to wait for F9 block 5 might push back some estimates of FH's second flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: envy887 on 11/21/2017 05:45 PM
From Gwynne's recent interview (http://spacenews.com/spacex-aims-to-follow-a-banner-year-with-an-even-faster-2018-launch-cadence/):
Quote
“We should ship the first Block 5 this year,” she said. “We are going to spend some time in Texas testing it, [then] it should fly in late Q1.”
[...]
Shotwell said the Block 5 Falcon 9 should be able to refly “10 or more times” with limited refurbishment. The Falcon Heavy will also use Block 5 cores, she said, with the exception of the first mission.

Having to wait for F9 block 5 might push back some estimates of FH's second flight.

She didn't say that FH would only use block 5 cores. Perhaps its using Block 5 center boosters and flight-proven side boosters. russianhalo said that the side boosters were already being manufactured early this year.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: mgeagon on 11/22/2017 06:27 AM
I think the term "core" in this context means the center booster. I agree that until customers start using high-energy returned boosters in a single stick launch, Falcon Heavy might be the only avenue to reuse some of the flight proven block 3s and 4s. It seems economically unlikely that all three boosters in the Demo 2 mission will be block 5s.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET Apr 30, 2018
Post by: Formica on 12/08/2017 05:58 PM
Spaceflight Now has updated their launch schedule, putting STP-2 NET June 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: Jakusb on 01/01/2018 06:05 PM
Spaceflight Now has updated their launch schedule, putting STP-2 NET June 2018.
Isn’t the most likely reason the much later launch of FH-Demo? 6 months to:
- review all launch data
- review all FH Demo hardware (safely landed in one piece)
- adjust design where needed
- build brand new improved block 5 center core
- build OR convert 2 side cores

All given a successful flight of FH Demo...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: IanThePineapple on 01/01/2018 06:11 PM
Spaceflight Now has updated their launch schedule, putting STP-2 NET June 2018.
Isn’t the most likely reason the much later launch of FH-Demo? 6 months to:
- review all launch data
- review all FH Demo hardware (safely landed in one piece)
- adjust design where needed
- build brand new improved block 5 center core
- build OR convert 2 side cores

All given a successful flight of FH Demo...

I'm wondering whether they'll reuse the center core and perhaps the two side cores.

If not I'd guess they'd convert two B4 cores for boosters, and 1 B5 for center. Just a guess.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: gongora on 01/01/2018 06:19 PM
The vehicle for this flight should be all new Block 5 cores.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: IanThePineapple on 01/01/2018 06:44 PM
The vehicle for this flight should be all new Block 5 cores.

Ah, nice!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: cscott on 02/14/2018 06:46 PM
We have a date! NET April 30, with two month window stretching to June.


STP-2 is scheduled for a window from April until June and Arabsat is confirmed to be second launching Falcon Heavy, according to NASA's budget released today (Page 537).

As I think I've mentioned before, I've got tickets to this launch courtesy of the Lightsail Kickstarter years and years ago, so I've started clearing my schedule!
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: gongora on 02/14/2018 06:54 PM
We have a date! NET April 30, with two month window stretching to June.


STP-2 is scheduled for a window from April until June and Arabsat is confirmed to be second launching Falcon Heavy, according to NASA's budget released today (Page 537).

As I think I've mentioned before, I've got tickets to this launch courtesy of the Lightsail Kickstarter years and years ago, so I've started clearing my schedule!

Well, that was the schedule when FH Demo was going to fly in December...  If this is still the third FH then unlikely it flies in that window.  If it swaps places with Arabsat 6A then it would still be possible (but probably not April, I'm guessing F9 Block 5 doesn't even debut until mid-April.)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: pb2000 on 02/14/2018 07:42 PM
Well, that was the schedule when FH Demo was going to fly in December...  If this is still the third FH then unlikely it flies in that window.  If it swaps places with Arabsat 6A then it would still be possible (but probably not April, I'm guessing F9 Block 5 doesn't even debut until mid-April.)
Does the STP-2 contract stipulate new cores? If not, it might be possible to launch 6A and assuming full recovery be ready to launch again in ~6 weeks, if Elon's gas and go model pans out.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: gongora on 02/14/2018 08:48 PM
Well, that was the schedule when FH Demo was going to fly in December...  If this is still the third FH then unlikely it flies in that window.  If it swaps places with Arabsat 6A then it would still be possible (but probably not April, I'm guessing F9 Block 5 doesn't even debut until mid-April.)
Does the STP-2 contract stipulate new cores? If not, it might be possible to launch 6A and assuming full recovery be ready to launch again in ~6 weeks, if Elon's gas and go model pans out.

The contract we've seen is almost 6 years old and has been amended multiple times since then.  We really don't know for sure what's in it now.  I would assume new cores.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: Star One on 02/14/2018 08:55 PM
We have a date! NET April 30, with two month window stretching to June.


STP-2 is scheduled for a window from April until June and Arabsat is confirmed to be second launching Falcon Heavy, according to NASA's budget released today (Page 537).

As I think I've mentioned before, I've got tickets to this launch courtesy of the Lightsail Kickstarter years and years ago, so I've started clearing my schedule!

Well, that was the schedule when FH Demo was going to fly in December...  If this is still the third FH then unlikely it flies in that window.  If it swaps places with Arabsat 6A then it would still be possible (but probably not April, I'm guessing F9 Block 5 doesn't even debut until mid-April.)

Elon indicated that the single stick block 5 debut flight would be in a couple of months.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: vaporcobra on 02/14/2018 09:21 PM
Well, that was the schedule when FH Demo was going to fly in December...  If this is still the third FH then unlikely it flies in that window.  If it swaps places with Arabsat 6A then it would still be possible (but probably not April, I'm guessing F9 Block 5 doesn't even debut until mid-April.)

Elon indicated that the single stick block 5 debut flight would be in a couple of months.

In this context, I think STP-2's launch date is going to be highly contingent on the launch of Arabsat 6A, which will in essence be the debut of an entirely new iteration of Falcon Heavy derived from Block 5. If SpaceX is also required to build an entirely new Block 5 Falcon Heavy for STP-2 on top of the new vehicle for Koreasat, late 2018 may be a more realistic launch window.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: gongora on 02/14/2018 11:01 PM
[Bloomberg] SpaceX's Falcon Heavy Mission for Air Force Targets June Launch (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-14/spacex-s-falcon-heavy-mission-for-air-force-targets-june-launch)
Quote
The U.S. Air Force is targeting that month for its Space Test Program 2 mission, or STP-2, a spokeswoman for the Space and Missile Systems Center said in an email.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: cebri on 02/15/2018 08:12 AM
Really considering flying from Europe to watch this.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: macpacheco on 02/15/2018 01:20 PM
Given that FH side cores are interchangeable with F9 cores, FH launch contracts that stipulate new cores will be handled building the 3 new cores, launching the set, then giving the side boosters interstages and launching them as F9 cores.
And if Arabsat accepts reused cores, it could launch with two previously flown F9 cores as side boosters.
It seems SpaceX will end up with 3 or 4 FH center cores, enough to launch to a long while.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: Jakusb on 02/22/2018 02:38 AM
With ArabSat-6A delayed to end-of-2018, will STP-2 be the 2nd FH and still aiming june 2018?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: cscott on 02/22/2018 06:33 AM
With ArabSat-6A delayed to end-of-2018, will STP-2 be the 2nd FH and still aiming june 2018?
Where is this information on ArabSat 6A coming from? I can't find it here on NSF.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : mid 2018
Post by: Paul_G on 02/22/2018 06:48 AM
With ArabSat-6A delayed to end-of-2018, will STP-2 be the 2nd FH and still aiming june 2018?
Where is this information on ArabSat 6A coming from? I can't find it here on NSF.

I saw this mentioned on Twitter. A search for Arsbsat 6a returned this article which says testing un

http://satelliteprome.com/news/lockheed-martin-completes-assembly-on-arabsat-6a/

Quote
During the trip from Denver to Sunnyvale, Arabsat-6A was housed in a “mobile cleanroom,” which keeps the satellite secure and in pristine condition, free of virtually any specks of dust and contaminants that could damage its precision electronics.

In California, the satellite will undergo multiple tests to ensure it is fit for flight. The satellite will be blasted with sound, exposed to extreme heat and cold, and subjected to a total vacuum to simulate what it will endure during its launch and operations in space. The testing will be completed and the satellite ready for delivery to the launch site by the end of the year.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: soltasto on 03/03/2018 01:03 AM
NET June 13

http://planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2018/20180302-lightsail-2-launch-update.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Demidrol on 03/03/2018 08:09 AM
There were some mentions about an ISAT demonstrator as part of the STP-2 mission. But now I can't find any information about it. So are they still going to launch the ISAT on FH?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/03/2018 09:51 AM
There were some mentions about an ISAT demonstrator as part of the STP-2 mission. But now I can't find any information about it. So are they still going to launch the ISAT on FH?

AFAIK, ISAT is pretty dead since many years (i think, i need to update my website on ISAT).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: gongora on 03/03/2018 09:43 PM
I started trying to cross-reference the payloads mentioned in the recent Spaceflight Now article with Gunter's site, need to look at this more later.

[Spaceflight Now] Rideshare mission for U.S. military confirmed as second Falcon Heavy launch (https://spaceflightnow.com/2018/03/01/rideshare-mission-for-u-s-military-confirmed-as-second-falcon-heavy-launch/)
Quote
Known as the Space Test Program-2, or STP-2, mission, the Falcon Heavy launch will launch with 25 spacecraft inside its nose cone, according to a spokesperson from the U.S. Air Force’s Space and Missile Systems Center.
...
Most of the STP-2 payloads will go into circular low-altitude orbits around 447 miles (720 kilometers) above Earth, inclined 24 degrees to the equator. Then the Falcon Heavy will boost the DSX satellite into an unusual elliptical orbit ranging in altitude between 3,728 miles (6,000 kilometers) and 7,456 miles (12,000 kilometers), with a ground track shifting between 43 degrees north and south of the equator.

6x COSMIC-2/Formosat 7
DSX (600kg, http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/dsx.htm)
NASA GPIM (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/gpim.htm)
Orbital Test Bed (includes atomic clock) (http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/otb-1.htm)
Prox 1 + Lightsail 2 ( http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/prox-1.htm, http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/lightsail-1.htm)
USAF Academy (FalconSAT 6, 181kg http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/falconsat-6.htm, FalconSat 7, 3U CubeSat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/falconsat-7.htm)
Naval Postgraduate School (NPSat 1, 86kg http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/npsat1.htm)
Naval Research Laboratory (TEPCE 1,2 2x1.5U Cubesat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/tepce.htm)
UT Austin (ARMADILLO, 3U CubeSat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/armadillo.htm)
Michigan Tech (Oculus-ASR, 70kg http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/oculus-asr.htm)
Cal Poly / Merritt Island High School (CP 9, 2U CubeSat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/cp-9.htm and StangSat, 1U CubeSat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/stangsat.htm)
----
BRICSat 2 - US Naval Academy 1.5U CubeSat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/bricsat-2.htm
PSat 2 (http://aprs.org/psat2.html) - US Naval Academy 1.5U CubeSat http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/psat-2.htm
TBEx (2x 3U CubeSats, http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/tbex.htm)
Prometheus-2 (6x 1.5U CubeSats http://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/prometheus-2.htm)


Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: OnWithTheShow on 03/04/2018 04:54 AM
A Celestis space burial mission will also fly on this mission.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Steven Pietrobon on 03/04/2018 05:03 AM
A Celestis space burial mission will also fly on this mission.

Do the you know the mission or name for this Celestis payload?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Skyrocket on 03/04/2018 08:54 AM
A Celestis space burial mission will also fly on this mission.

Do the you know the mission or name for this Celestis payload?

It is called "Heritage Flight". The Celestis capsule is integrated into the OTB satellite.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Nehkara on 03/09/2018 08:28 PM
Is there any confirmation that SpaceX has been cleared by the Air Force to use flight-proven side boosters on this mission?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: russianhalo117 on 03/09/2018 08:41 PM
Is there any confirmation that SpaceX has been cleared by the Air Force to use flight-proven side boosters on this mission?
It is previously stated that the next launch which is now this flight will use all block-5 cores which in earlier announcement were to be all new. I have not come across anything different information wise.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 03/09/2018 10:15 PM
Is there any confirmation that SpaceX has been cleared by the Air Force to use flight-proven side boosters on this mission?
It is previously stated that the next launch which is now this flight will use all block-5 cores which in earlier announcement were to be all new. I have not come across anything different information wise.

I know the center core will be a new Block 5 as it has to be custom-built for FH.  Where's the link to the announcement that both side cores (regular F9 Block 5s with nose cones instead of interstages) are going to be new Block 5s for this mission?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Kansan52 on 03/09/2018 10:34 PM
CG, going from other posts that reported after the first mixmaster FH launch, all FH would be constructed using Block 5.

But nothing has stated the side F9s would be new. I inferred there would not be any flight proven Block 5 available for the next FH. Just to little time.

Still, the SX tempo could mean flight proven Block 5s could be available.

Fun to watch!
Title: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Star One on 03/10/2018 09:30 AM
Is there any confirmation that SpaceX has been cleared by the Air Force to use flight-proven side boosters on this mission?
It is previously stated that the next launch which is now this flight will use all block-5 cores which in earlier announcement were to be all new. I have not come across anything different information wise.

I know the center core will be a new Block 5 as it has to be custom-built for FH.  Where's the link to the announcement that both side cores (regular F9 Block 5s with nose cones instead of interstages) are going to be new Block 5s for this mission?

I believe Elon also stated it a couple of times in interviews around the demo flight of the FH.

Here’s one example.

https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/09/spacex-aims-to-make-history-3-more-times-in-2018/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: ChrisGebhardt on 03/10/2018 09:35 AM
CG, going from other posts that reported after the first mixmaster FH launch, all FH would be constructed using Block 5.

But nothing has stated the side F9s would be new. I inferred there would not be any flight proven Block 5 available for the next FH. Just to little time.

Still, the SX tempo could mean flight proven Block 5s could be available.

Fun to watch!

Gotcha.  Could be wrong, but I would imagine that the first Block 5 would be available.  If it flies around 5 April as intended, that would that would be 2.5 month before the FH-2 flight.  If they're serious about rapid reuse, that core should be available.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: gongora on 03/10/2018 02:08 PM
CG, going from other posts that reported after the first mixmaster FH launch, all FH would be constructed using Block 5.

But nothing has stated the side F9s would be new. I inferred there would not be any flight proven Block 5 available for the next FH. Just to little time.

Still, the SX tempo could mean flight proven Block 5s could be available.

Fun to watch!

Gotcha.  Could be wrong, but I would imagine that the first Block 5 would be available.  If it flies around 5 April as intended, that would that would be 2.5 month before the FH-2 flight.  If they're serious about rapid reuse, that core should be available.

It really comes down to what the customer wants them to demonstrate.  It's an Air Force launch, and I doubt they put in any language allowing reused boosters when they signed the contract 5 years ago.  Maybe the Air Force would be willing to try it on a test launch like this but that would have to be negotiated.  SpaceX can't just stick a used booster on a flight unless the contract allows it.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: jpo234 on 03/10/2018 03:15 PM
SpaceX can't just stick a used booster on a flight unless the contract allows it.

Is it enough if the contract doesn't forbid it?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Nomadd on 03/10/2018 04:15 PM
SpaceX can't just stick a used booster on a flight unless the contract allows it.

Is it enough if the contract doesn't forbid it?
"That which is not expressly forbidden is allowed?" or "That which is not expressly allowed is forbidden?"
 The basic SX contract could be written for used with the option to request new or the other way around.
 I would imagine the former.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Michael Baylor on 03/10/2018 06:31 PM
To settle the above discussion, all cores on this FH mission will be Block V.

Ok, my bad. This doesn't settle the above discussion, but here's the most detailed response that Elon has given up regarding the side cores.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: gongora on 03/10/2018 08:41 PM
To settle the above discussion, all cores on this FH mission will be Block V.

We've known that for months, it doesn't settle anything.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Michael Baylor on 03/10/2018 10:41 PM
To settle the above discussion, all cores on this FH mission will be Block V.

We've known that for months, it doesn't settle anything.
Yeah, my bad. I missed the part about this being specific to new Block V side cores.

Nothing has been settled.  :(
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Mader Levap on 03/12/2018 02:01 PM
SpaceX can't just stick a used booster on a flight unless the contract allows it.

Is it enough if the contract doesn't forbid it?
It would not be enough, but I am very sure they all have in contracts something about reuse (even if it amounts to "[BLEEEP] NO"). It is not like SpaceX's reuse ambitions were secret.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: Nehkara on 03/12/2018 02:05 PM
SpaceX can't just stick a used booster on a flight unless the contract allows it.

Is it enough if the contract doesn't forbid it?
It would not be enough, but I am very sure they all have in contracts something about reuse (even if it amounts to "[BLEEEP] NO"). It is not like SpaceX's reuse ambitions were secret.

STP-2 was awarded in 2012.  It's possible there is nothing in the contract about re-use.

http://www.spacex.com/press/2012/12/19/spacex-awarded-two-eelv-class-missions-united-states-air-force
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: envy887 on 03/12/2018 02:15 PM
SpaceX can't just stick a used booster on a flight unless the contract allows it.

Is it enough if the contract doesn't forbid it?
It would not be enough, but I am very sure they all have in contracts something about reuse (even if it amounts to "[BLEEEP] NO"). It is not like SpaceX's reuse ambitions were secret.

STP-2 was awarded in 2012.  It's possible there is nothing in the contract about re-use.

http://www.spacex.com/press/2012/12/19/spacex-awarded-two-eelv-class-missions-united-states-air-force

The USAF has a whole boatload of qualification requirements that assume a new booster. As I understand it, those would be very difficult to meet with a used booster because the process is not designed to qualify a used booster.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: envy887 on 03/21/2018 05:34 PM
The date on STP-2 was updated from NET June to NET June 13th in the general launch log thread last week. Is that a reasonably solid date?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: russianhalo117 on 03/21/2018 05:41 PM
The date on STP-2 was updated from NET June to NET June 13th in the general launch log thread last week. Is that a reasonably solid date?
It still says its a NET but it is more of a promising date than just NET June. Keep in mind that for a while now in the USA launch schedule the launch date is NET 13 June 2018 to NLT 13 August 2018.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A : NET June 2018
Post by: gongora on 03/21/2018 06:15 PM
The date on STP-2 was updated from NET June to NET June 13th in the general launch log thread last week. Is that a reasonably solid date?

The 13th is probably a solid NET date but I wouldn't consider it a solid launch date yet.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET June 13, 2018
Post by: gongora on 04/13/2018 10:48 PM
You never know what you'll find when you get bored and poke around the FCC database...

ELS File Number 0235-EX-PL-2016
Quote
TBEx will be inserted into the nominal STP-2 CubeSat orbit with apogee at 860 km, perigee
at 300 km, and an inclination of 28.4.

This was from a 2017 document, which is five years newer than the publicly released mission requirements document you can find at the top of the thread.

edit: attach document with cubesat mission details
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET June 13, 2018
Post by: gongora on 04/14/2018 12:46 AM
Here is the ODAR for the three ELaNa XV CubeSats.  It gives the orbit as 300x860 at 28.5 degrees.  It also shows the June 13 target date was already set as of Dec. 12, 2017 (a couple months before the FH Demo launch).
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET June 13, 2018
Post by: gongora on 04/14/2018 05:40 PM
The Planetary Society hasn't changed their ODAR for Lightsail-2, it still shows deployment at 720km circular, 24 degrees.
FCC application still pending, FCC ELS File Number 0338-EX-ST-2018
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET June 13, 2018
Post by: tleski on 04/16/2018 12:57 AM
On the Space Show dated April 10th, Casey Dreier (Planetary Society) mentioned that the Lightsail-2 launch slipped from June to September. It would mean STP-2 slipped. Do we have any information confirming this from other sources? He seems to be pretty well informed.

Link to the interview (the Lightsail-2 is discussed ~33minutes into the show):
http://thespaceshow.com/show/10-apr-2018/broadcast-3098-casey-dreier
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET June 13, 2018
Post by: gongora on 04/16/2018 01:06 AM
It would not be surprising at all if it slips a few months.  There wasn't really any chance of June happening.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET September 2018
Post by: cebri on 04/20/2018 10:18 AM
Kind of a bummer, i'll probably be in the States in June and i was hoping to see it go. Not really that suprised tho.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET September 2018
Post by: gongora on 04/24/2018 09:34 PM
General Atomics Completes Ready-For-Launch Testing of Orbital Test Bed Satellite (http://www.ga.com/general-atomics-completes-ready-for-launch-testing-of-orbital-test-bed-satellite)
Quote
SAN DIEGO, CA, 23 APRIL 2018 - General Atomics Electromagnetic Systems (GA-EMS) announced today that it has completed full system and “ready for launch” pre-flight testing of its Orbital Test Bed (OTB) satellite. OTB will launch as part of the U.S. Air Force’s Space Technology Program (STP-2) flight on the SpaceX Falcon Heavy rocket. The OTB hosts multiple payloads on a single platform for on-orbit technology demonstration. Among the hosted payloads on OTB is NASA’s Space Technology Mission Directorate’s Deep Space Atomic Clock, designed and built at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory, which supports deep space navigation and exploration.

“The completion of system testing marks a significant milestone, allowing us to effectively “button up” the OTB satellite in anticipation of delivery to Cape Canaveral for launch into space,” stated Scott Forney, president of GA-EMS. “We believe OTB is a new paradigm in hosted payload satellite design and is paving the way to make space more affordable and accessible to customers looking to demonstrate and validate their technologies on-orbit.”

GA-EMS’ low-Earth orbit OTB is a versatile, modular platform designed for the simultaneous launch of multiple demonstration payloads. Hosting multiple payloads on a single satellite eliminates the need for customers to bear the costly burden of a dedicated platform and launch.

“As the small satellite industry grows, the OTB hosted payload platform can increase the number of flight opportunities, reduce the cost to access space, and provide a more adaptable approach to managing the integration, launch, and on-orbit operations to support commercial, civil, educational, and military payloads,” added Nick Bucci, vice president of Missile Defense and Space at GA-EMS. “From the perspective of both the payload customer and host provider, this new approach offers significant advantages and benefits over classic space industry practices to help rapidly space-qualify new equipment.”

GA-EMS continues to expand its portfolio of small satellites and mission-support capabilities, providing ground-to-on-orbit solutions that offer a high degree of modularity and payload flexibility to suit a variety of mission and customer requirements.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET September 2018
Post by: Eagandale4114 on 05/09/2018 10:32 PM
Now NET October 2018 according to Bloomberg  (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-09/spacex-s-second-falcon-heavy-rocket-spectacle-slips-to-october)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET October 2018
Post by: gongora on 05/11/2018 05:38 PM
NET Oct. 30

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/2018/20180511-lightsail2-launch-slip.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET end of October 2018
Post by: Comga on 06/08/2018 01:44 AM
A system engineer working a payload on STP-2 told me that SpaceX has told the team with  that the launch is now targeted for November 19. 
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: gongora on 06/08/2018 01:58 AM
It will be interesting to see where DM-1 ends up in relation to this flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: deruch on 06/08/2018 07:43 PM
It will be interesting to see where DM-1 ends up in relation to this flight.

I wouldn't be surprised if current delays in preparation of LC-39 for DM-1 are causing the slippage of STP-2 since both need that pad.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: vaporcobra on 06/10/2018 02:56 AM
What is the purpose of the 5 tonnes of ballast on this mission? Is it simply to ensure that FH is capable of meeting the EELV New Entrant specifications?
No. The launcher is too powerfull for just the payload alone. It requires additional payload mass (provided by means of ballast) to prevent over-performance.

Perhaps this is an ignorant question, but why is this mission still manifested on a Falcon Heavy? I'm trying to figure out the rationale, especially given the unbelievably severe delays STP-2 has been beset with as a result of LV choice. Sunk cost fallacy?

It's just hard for me to see any actual value in adding a huge amount of ballast to "stress" test a LV that has already been successfully demonstrated with an interplanetary launch.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 mission : LC-39A, Cape Canaveral : NET 2018
Post by: gongora on 06/10/2018 02:59 AM
What is the purpose of the 5 tonnes of ballast on this mission? Is it simply to ensure that FH is capable of meeting the EELV New Entrant specifications?
No. The launcher is too powerfull for just the payload alone. It requires additional payload mass (provided by means of ballast) to prevent over-performance.

Perhaps this is an ignorant question, but why is this mission still manifested on a Falcon Heavy? I'm trying to figure out the rationale, especially given the unbelievably severe delays STP-2 has been beset with as a result of LV choice. Sunk cost fallacy?

It's just hard for me to see any actual value in adding a huge amount of ballast to "stress" test a LV that has already been successfully demonstrated with an interplanetary launch.

The STP contracts are an onramp to DoD certification for new vehicles.  It's a test flight.  The payload isn't all that relevant.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: gongora on 07/13/2018 06:15 PM
I wonder what the requirements for this actually are now.  I don't see why it would ever go to 720km-circular unless a government secondary payload needs that orbit.  The initial permit request for Prox-1 back in 2016 was denied by the FCC because that orbit was so high.  Most of the smaller payloads are now showing a 300x860 at 28.5 degrees orbit, and Formosat-7's operational (not necessarily deployment) orbit is only 550-km at 24 degrees.

This article mentions the launch being pushed toward the end of the year (which we already knew), and has a couple other tidbits about the Formosat-7 sats.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2018/07/14/2003696663
Quote
In April and May, the US sent experts to replace some of Formosat-7’s components after the NSPO detected signal interference among its scientific payloads, he said, adding the satellite cluster is now ready for launch.
...
The second set’s seventh satellite, which was made by Taiwan, would still be launched, and the NSPO would seek other rocket suppliers to help with the plan, he said.

It would budget NT$540 million (US$17.67 million) for the seventh satellite’s separate launch, which is scheduled for 2020, Yu added.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: gongora on 08/02/2018 06:38 PM
https://blogs.nasa.gov/commercialcrew/2018/08/02/nasas-commercial-crew-program-target-test-flight-dates-3/

Targeted Test Flight Dates:
Boeing Orbital Flight Test (uncrewed): late 2018 / early 2019
Boeing Crew Flight Test (crewed): mid-2019
SpaceX Demo-1 (uncrewed): November 2018
SpaceX Demo-2 (crewed): April 2019

DM-1 now has a November target, not sure if that will have any effect on the STP-2 schedule.  I guess it may be another couple months before it's clear whether either or both of them will actually make November  :)
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: John Alan on 08/02/2018 11:34 PM
Do we have any idea how long SpaceX will need to switch 39A back and forth between F9 and FH as it currently stands?...  ???

DM-1 in early Nov and STP-2 in late Nov seems a possibility...  :-\
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: IanThePineapple on 08/02/2018 11:37 PM
Do we have any idea how long SpaceX will need to switch 39A back and forth between F9 and FH as it currently stands?...  ???

DM-1 in early Nov and STP-2 in late Nov seems a possibility...  :-\

I believe I read it took 2 days to convert 39A from FH to F9 capability after the demo flight.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: mazen hesham on 08/06/2018 01:12 AM
the launch schedule thread says this launch is now early December, what's the source for that ?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: Comga on 08/06/2018 03:45 AM
the launch schedule thread says this launch is now early December, what's the source for that ?

To what “launch schedule thread” are you referring?
The public SpaceX Manifest Thread still says 2018-11.
Although my suspicion is that a slip to December is probable...
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: Galactic Penguin SST on 08/06/2018 04:46 AM
the launch schedule thread says this launch is now early December, what's the source for that ?

To what “launch schedule thread” are you referring?
The public SpaceX Manifest Thread still says 2018-11.
Although my suspicion is that a slip to December is probable...

It's this one: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1840 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1840)
This is probably a misread of the "FPIP chart" made by smoliarm as that wasn't meant to be accurate.

Updated FPIP:

(https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/43418.0/1502410.jpg)
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43418.0;attach=1502409;sess=17024
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: Comga on 08/06/2018 05:49 AM
the launch schedule thread says this launch is now early December, what's the source for that ?

To what “launch schedule thread” are you referring?
The public SpaceX Manifest Thread still says 2018-11.
Although my suspicion is that a slip to December is probable...

It's this one: https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1840 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=8184.1840)
This is probably a misread of the "FPIP chart" made by smoliarm as that wasn't meant to be accurate.

Updated FPIP:

(https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/assets/43418.0/1502410.jpg)
https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43418.0;attach=1502409;sess=17024 (https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=43418.0;attach=1502409;sess=17024)

Ah
We are, as they say, “in violent agreement”.
With SpaceX DM-1 said to have to wait until November, it is a reasonable assumption that STP-2 will slip into December.
But that’s all it is, a reasonable assumption. 
Let’s hope for an announcement soon.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: SimonFD on 08/06/2018 07:50 AM
Given DM- is big held up by other schedules, couldn't STP-2 move to the left and go first?
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: Star One on 08/06/2018 03:49 PM
Given DM- is big held up by other schedules, couldn't STP-2 move to the left and go first?

Because I imagine the former is a higher priority for Space X than the latter.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: gongora on 08/06/2018 04:14 PM
Given DM- is big held up by other schedules, couldn't STP-2 move to the left and go first?

If STP-2 was able to move left then it probably wouldn't have moved right in the first place.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: rosbif73 on 08/07/2018 10:52 AM
Given DM- is big held up by other schedules, couldn't STP-2 move to the left and go first?

If STP-2 was able to move left then it probably wouldn't have moved right in the first place.

Depends whether we're talking absolute left and right (i.e. calendar dates) or just relative left and right (i.e. order of missions). STP-2 probably can't move very far to the left in absolute terms, but it could conceivably stay at the same NET date whilst the DM slips rightwards past it due to ISS scheduling constraints.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : November 2018
Post by: gongora on 08/07/2018 03:18 PM
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201808030023.aspx
Quote
Taipei, Aug. 3 (CNA) The FormoSat-7 satellite group, a U.S.-Taiwan collaboration that could be launched by the end of this year, will greatly improve the world's typhoon prediction capabilities, the deputy head of the Central Weather Bureau said Friday.
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2018/08/04/2003697944
Quote
While Lai said that Formosat-7 would be delivered to the US at the end of next month, agency officials appeared more reserved about its launch schedule, which has been postponed several times.
The satellite cluster will most likely be launched next year, Lin said, adding that the actual date has yet to be determined.
As Formosat-7’s launch is managed by the US Air Force and US company SpaceX, the NSPO can only wait for notification two months prior to launch, he said.
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET 30 Nov, 2018
Post by: FutureSpaceTourist on 08/08/2018 09:35 PM
Quote
Jason Davis • August 8, 2018
LightSail 2 updates: Launch date slips, environmental test complete, new video released

The Planetary Society's LightSail 2 spacecraft has proved it can withstand the rigors of launch aboard SpaceX's Falcon Heavy, the powerhouse rocket that will carry it into orbit. But that ride to space won't happen until at least November 30, as SpaceX works through a list of other payloads in line to fly first.

http://www.planetary.org/blogs/jason-davis/lightsail-2-launch-nov30.html
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET end of Nov., 2018
Post by: mazen hesham on 09/05/2018 03:20 PM
STP-2 NET March 2019 per Teslarati.
Quote
Currently NET March 2019 as well, SpaceX’s third dedicated USAF launch – STP-2 on Falcon Heavy – is being set up primarily to help the USAF certify SpaceX’s newest heavy-lift rocket for national security launches.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-second-usaf-mission-december-gps-satellite-launch-target/
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET end of Nov., 2018
Post by: Michael Baylor on 09/05/2018 03:43 PM
STP-2 NET March 2019 per Teslarati.
Quote
Currently NET March 2019 as well, SpaceX’s third dedicated USAF launch – STP-2 on Falcon Heavy – is being set up primarily to help the USAF certify SpaceX’s newest heavy-lift rocket for national security launches.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-second-usaf-mission-december-gps-satellite-launch-target/
Pretty sure that was sourced based on this forum post. I could be wrong though.
A question mark is not needed
STP-2 is NET March 2019
Title: Re: SpaceX Falcon Heavy : STP-2 : LC-39A : NET end of Nov., 2018
Post by: vaporcobra on 10/30/2018 05:14 AM
STP-2 NET March 2019 per Teslarati.
Quote
Currently NET March 2019 as well, SpaceX’s third dedicated USAF launch – STP-2 on Falcon Heavy – is being set up primarily to help the USAF certify SpaceX’s newest heavy-lift rocket for national security launches.
https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-second-usaf-mission-december-gps-satellite-launch-target/
Pretty sure that was sourced based on this forum post. I could be wrong though.
A question mark is not needed
STP-2 is NET March 2019

Sorry, just saw this. Comga's comment cued me to ask a friend and they corroborated with "Q1/Q2". No reason to question Comga's NET, as such.