Author Topic: SpaceX Reusable Falcon 9 (Grasshopper ONLY) DISCUSSION Thread (3)  (Read 830095 times)

Online LouScheffer

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Or you do something revolutionary. Use concrete, that has been proven adequate in the Grasshopper tests and is really, really chaeap.

Concrete is really cheap.  Damage to the surrounding engines (which grasshopper does not have) from flying concrete fragments is not.

If grasshopper tests show that *all* concrete fragments (if any) get blown straight to the side, then by all means use a cheap concrete pad.  But if any bounce up and might hit the adjoining engines, you might consider a pit.

Offline Lar

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Absolutely. This landing pad thing keeps going round in circles.

So will GH2's pad be a circle or a square? I thought straight forms are cheaper, but circular pads use less concrete for a given minimum edge distance.

:)

NOTE: this is a silly post ( and the mods can delete it ), merely to illustrate what minutia we actually were avoiding asking
« Last Edit: 05/23/2013 08:22 pm by Lar »
"I think it would be great to be born on Earth and to die on Mars. Just hopefully not at the point of impact." -Elon Musk
"We're a little bit like the dog who caught the bus" - Musk after CRS-8 S1 successfully landed on ASDS OCISLY

Offline simonbp

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Everything about how SpaceX is pursuing reusability suggests a philosophy of "try the simplest thing possible and only add complexity if the simplest idea doesn't work". I would only expect them to try something more complex than a concrete pad if they were having serious problems with the concrete...which so don't seem to have any clear evidence for.

Oh yeah, I agree they's never try anything beyond legs an concrete for the initial flights. A cradle only makes sense if you want really quick (<24 hour) turnaround. That's not going to happen for many years, but still fun to think about. Which is the point of discussion threads. ;)

Offline douglas100

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Thank you, all fans of rotating things.  ;D

Funchucks made my point:

Quote
The landing pad seems like a total non-issue.  I'm surprised it's being discussed at all.

From simonbp:

Quote
Oh yeah, I agree they's never try anything beyond legs an concrete for the initial flights. A cradle only makes sense if you want really quick (<24 hour) turnaround. That's not going to happen for many years, but still fun to think about. Which is the point of discussion threads.

Fair enough, but I think the pad issue has been well covered already.
Douglas Clark

Offline Avron

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bigger question is when will it or the new version fly..

Offline Rocket Surgeon

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Anyone know when the next grasshopper test is/ What they will do for it?

Offline kkattula

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Anyone know when the next grasshopper test is/ What they will do for it?


Yes, I'm sure someone at SpaceX knows the answers to both those questions. :)
 
Based on past history, we won't know when until it happens, and we won't know what until the video is posted.

Offline llanitedave

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It would be cool if the interstage could double as a petal-out air brake/stabilizer structure, although I don't know that it would be feasible.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline Rocket Surgeon

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It would be cool if the interstage could double as a petal-out air brake/stabilizer structure, although I don't know that it would be feasible.

So something like this?

http://www.google.com/patents?id=zB3wAAAAEBAJ&zoom=4&dq=%22Blue%20Origin%2C%20LLC%22&pg=PA13#v=onepage&q&f=false

Patent-happy Bezos :P

Offline docmordrid

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That patent is probably not enforceable. Deployable airfoils & drag devices have been described many times before, including the TGV MICHELLE.
DM

Offline ClaytonBirchenough

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Any hope of testing to destruction much more frequent and aggressive testing now that a replacement is on the horizon?


Haha thank you, you gave me a good laugh  :D.
Clayton Birchenough

Offline llanitedave

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That patent is probably not enforceable. Deployable airfoils & drag devices have been described many times before, including the TGV MICHELLE.

There are a lot of ways to implement the concept.  If the Bezos patent is narrow enough, it could probably stand.  If he's trying to patent the entire approach, then he's probably puffing hot air.
"I've just abducted an alien -- now what?"

Offline kch

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That patent is probably not enforceable. Deployable airfoils & drag devices have been described many times before, including the TGV MICHELLE.

There are a lot of ways to implement the concept.  If the Bezos patent is narrow enough, it could probably stand.  If he's trying to patent the entire approach, then he's probably puffing hot air.

From the sounds of it, hot air might be the next thing he tries to patent ... ;)

Offline rickyramjet

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The document; "LAUNCH VEHICLES WITH FIXED AND DEPLOYABLE DECELERATION SURFACES" is not a patent.  It is an application for a patent.  It might not get approved.  Patents take 5 to 6 years to work their through the USPTO, so it will be 2 or 3 years yet that anyone has to worry about it.

Offline Linze

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That patent is probably not enforceable. Deployable airfoils & drag devices have been described many times before, including the TGV MICHELLE.

There are a lot of ways to implement the concept.  If the Bezos patent is narrow enough, it could probably stand.  If he's trying to patent the entire approach, then he's probably puffing hot air.

SpaceX is typically reluctant to file for patents, believing it just provides blueprints for the Chinese, but they have filed for certain patents.  They say the filings were specifically designed to counter the patents from an unnamed competitor.  That competitor is very likely to be Blue Origin. 

If done properly, it creates a patent stalemate that should allow SpaceX to use Blue Origin patents without worry.

Offline krytek

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Just saw an interview with Elon. He stated the first stage is 3/4 of the cost of the stack.

Offline hrissan

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Just saw an interview with Elon. He stated the first stage is 3/4 of the cost of the stack.
I noticed that point too. It means Elon should be very serious in making upper stage reusable too, if his goal is at least 10x reduction in launch cost (not price :)).

Offline deltaV

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Just saw an interview with Elon. He stated the first stage is 3/4 of the cost of the stack.

Is that figure for F9 or FH?

Offline Thunderbird5

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Just saw an interview with Elon. He stated the first stage is 3/4 of the cost of the stack.
Which interview? Can you provide a link please?

Offline GalacticIntruder

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Just saw an interview with Elon. He stated the first stage is 3/4 of the cost of the stack.
Which interview? Can you provide a link please?



http://allthingsd.com/20130530/tesla-ceo-and-spacex-founder-elon-musk-the-full-d11-interview-video/

At around the 36 minute mark he mentions first stage recovery.
"And now the Sun will fade, All we are is all we made." Breaking Benjamin

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