Concerning "warp-drive", please notice that the following was placed today on NASA Glenn's website ( http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/warp/warp.html ):Bold added for emphasis:QuoteIs Warp Drive Real?Ever since the sound barrier was broken, people have turned their attention to how we can break the light speed barrier. But “Warp Drive” or any other term for faster-than-light travel still remains at the level of speculation. The bulk of scientific knowledge concludes that it’s impossible, especially when considering Einstein’s Theory of Relativity. There are certainly some credible concepts in scientific literature, however it’s too soon to know if they are viable.Science fiction writers have given us many images of interstellar travel, but traveling at the speed of light is simply imaginary at present.In the meantime, science moves forward. And while NASA is not pursuing interstellar flight, scientists here continue to advance ion propulsion for missions to deep space and beyond using solar electric power. This form of propulsion is the fastest and most efficient to date.There are many “absurd” theories that have become reality over the years of scientific research. But for the near future, warp drive remains a dream.If you would like to know more about the theories of interstellar flight, you should visit the Tau Zero Foundation. Marc Millis, a former NASA Glenn physicist, founded the organization to consider revolutionary advancements in propulsion. Past articles of warp drive found at this location have been archived.Nancy Smith Kilkenny, SGT Inc.NASA's Glenn Research CenterLast Updated: April 23, 2015Editor: NASA Administrator
Is Warp Drive Real?Ever since the sound barrier was broken, people have turned their attention to how we can break the light speed barrier. But “Warp Drive” or any other term for faster-than-light travel still remains at the level of speculation. The bulk of scientific knowledge concludes that it’s impossible, especially when considering Einstein’s Theory of Relativity. There are certainly some credible concepts in scientific literature, however it’s too soon to know if they are viable.Science fiction writers have given us many images of interstellar travel, but traveling at the speed of light is simply imaginary at present.In the meantime, science moves forward. And while NASA is not pursuing interstellar flight, scientists here continue to advance ion propulsion for missions to deep space and beyond using solar electric power. This form of propulsion is the fastest and most efficient to date.There are many “absurd” theories that have become reality over the years of scientific research. But for the near future, warp drive remains a dream.If you would like to know more about the theories of interstellar flight, you should visit the Tau Zero Foundation. Marc Millis, a former NASA Glenn physicist, founded the organization to consider revolutionary advancements in propulsion. Past articles of warp drive found at this location have been archived.Nancy Smith Kilkenny, SGT Inc.NASA's Glenn Research CenterLast Updated: April 23, 2015Editor: NASA Administrator
So it looks like any interest in warp drive has been for now shelved. But then warp drive isn't the EM drive & I imagine it's possible that people were getting the two mixed up and this is an act of clarification.
Quote from: Star One on 04/23/2015 06:51 pmSo it looks like any interest in warp drive has been for now shelved. But then warp drive isn't the EM drive & I imagine it's possible that people were getting the two mixed up and this is an act of clarification.Your statements are of course your personal view. I regard the first statement as unwarranted speculation, as the announcement from NASA Glenn just pertains their own center's work on space propulsion, and also because NASA Eagleworks is not conducting engineering of an actual warp-drive vehicle but is instead conducting R&D interferometer tests for the purposes discussed in previous posts.I regard Glenn's statement as a necessary sanitary statement to answer science-fiction fans that may be unaware of the difference between R&D and actual aerospace-engineering, and therefore may have completely unrealistic short-term expectations.
So it looks like my conjecture that the device is creating some sort of spacial warp field is likely?
Quote from: JasonAW3 on 04/23/2015 04:59 pmSo it looks like my conjecture that the device is creating some sort of spacial warp field is likely?IF it´s creating a sort of warp of space-time... would it be safe to use on Earth when we increase it´s thrust by several orders of magnitude? Unless the warp distortion can be kept small but strong (think of a black hole) inside the engines...
Quote from: Mulletron on 04/23/2015 05:29 amThey report using permanent magnets for B and a sinusoidally driven HVPS for E. Recent discussion wrt connecting EM to warp reminded me of this. His youtube channel is amazing. I wish we had him here in this thread. Is the following just "defined" β f = - h /(1 - h )without addressing what are the conditions for this "definition" to hold, and what is the validity of this "definition" ?and then predictive conclusions are extracted from plugging in this "definition" into the exact solution?
They report using permanent magnets for B and a sinusoidally driven HVPS for E. Recent discussion wrt connecting EM to warp reminded me of this. His youtube channel is amazing. I wish we had him here in this thread.
Quote from: Rodal on 04/23/2015 01:23 pmQuote from: Mulletron on 04/23/2015 05:29 amThey report using permanent magnets for B and a sinusoidally driven HVPS for E. Recent discussion wrt connecting EM to warp reminded me of this. His youtube channel is amazing. I wish we had him here in this thread. Is the following just "defined" β f = - h /(1 - h )without addressing what are the conditions for this "definition" to hold, and what is the validity of this "definition" ?and then predictive conclusions are extracted from plugging in this "definition" into the exact solution?I hopped on his youtube channel and asked him. At the 40 second mark he explains what is going on but not to the detail you're looking for.
Quote from: aceshigh on 04/23/2015 07:48 pmQuote from: JasonAW3 on 04/23/2015 04:59 pmSo it looks like my conjecture that the device is creating some sort of spacial warp field is likely?IF it´s creating a sort of warp of space-time... would it be safe to use on Earth when we increase it´s thrust by several orders of magnitude? Unless the warp distortion can be kept small but strong (think of a black hole) inside the engines...Whether it is creating a distortion of the space fabric of spacetime remains to be proven (hopefully they carry on their proposed experiments in vacuum to put to bed the issue of air refraction). But just to entertain your speculative question, a back-of-the-envelope analysis quickly shows that the initial distortion of spacetime would be local and insignificant compared to the distortion of spatime produced by the Earth (which is immense in comparison).
There is no issues of safety related to "black holes". No. (And there are no issues of black-hole safety at CERN either).
...even if the EM Drive thrust was increased to big levels?Is it possible to calculate at which level of EM Drive thrust the local distortion of space time would be dangerous?...I mentioned black holes only in the sense of strong space-time warping in a small volume...In that same sense, I would guess that despite Earth having a much stronger effect warping space time due to it´s mass, it´s spread over a large volume.In other words... what I am thinking here is the difference between the distortion caused by a spoon of neutron star matter, weighing the same as the Everest, and Earth itself. Earth itself has much more gravity, but it´s spread over a really big volume... while a spoon of neutron star matter equivalent to Mount Everest would condense all that space-time distortion over such a small volume...
....Now, Paul March talked about increasing thrust to 600 N. Let´s imagine a future EM Drive with a thrust equivalent to a chemical rocket... 600 thousand N. Would that create a significant space-time distortion?
[snip]Look at my answer above, on what I wrote after "EDIT".I would worry much more about particles in space being “swept up” into the warp bubble and focused into regions before and behind the ship. When your warp-driven spaceship decelerates, these particles will be released in outbursts. The forward-facing particles can be very energetic — enough to destroy anyone at the destination directly in front of you. So, if you are planning to go on a warp-drive beware that gamma ray and high energy particles may destroy any beings on the location you are trying to reach Wormholes are more benign (if you can traverse them
Quote from: Rodal on 04/23/2015 08:56 pm[snip]Look at my answer above, on what I wrote after "EDIT".I would worry much more about particles in space being “swept up” into the warp bubble and focused into regions before and behind the ship. When your warp-driven spaceship decelerates, these particles will be released in outbursts. The forward-facing particles can be very energetic — enough to destroy anyone at the destination directly in front of you. So, if you are planning to go on a warp-drive beware that gamma ray and high energy particles may destroy any beings on the location you are trying to reach Wormholes are more benign (if you can traverse them Easy solution: Divide your travel way into hops with very short warp deactivation phases to get rid of unwanted particle collection.
Quote from: CW on 04/23/2015 09:03 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/23/2015 08:56 pm[snip]Look at my answer above, on what I wrote after "EDIT".I would worry much more about particles in space being “swept up” into the warp bubble and focused into regions before and behind the ship. When your warp-driven spaceship decelerates, these particles will be released in outbursts. The forward-facing particles can be very energetic — enough to destroy anyone at the destination directly in front of you. So, if you are planning to go on a warp-drive beware that gamma ray and high energy particles may destroy any beings on the location you are trying to reach Wormholes are more benign (if you can traverse them Easy solution: Divide your travel way into hops with very short warp deactivation phases to get rid of unwanted particle collection.I somehow suspect thatthey issue would be self resolving as I suspect teh particles and built up debris would flow around the warp in much the same way as the wake of a ship is formed. It would tend to wrap around the craft and be left behind, much the same way that water wraps around and is left behind a submarine.
It would tend to wrap around the craft and be left behind, much the same way that water wraps around and is left behind a submarine.
Quote from: CW on 04/23/2015 09:03 pmQuote from: Rodal on 04/23/2015 08:56 pm[snip]Look at my answer above, on what I wrote after "EDIT".I would worry much more about particles in space being “swept up” into the warp bubble and focused into regions before and behind the ship. When your warp-driven spaceship decelerates, these particles will be released in outbursts. The forward-facing particles can be very energetic — enough to destroy anyone at the destination directly in front of you. So, if you are planning to go on a warp-drive beware that gamma ray and high energy particles may destroy any beings on the location you are trying to reach Wormholes are more benign (if you can traverse them Easy solution: Divide your travel way into hops with very short warp deactivation phases to get rid of unwanted particle collection.I wonder if this "broom" effect is actually a blessing in disguise, the kind that would make warp drive travel actually feasible (if it exists).One of the biggest concerns of relativistic ships is the effect of dust and particles upon the traveling ship. The faster you go, the nastier the effect of these particles upon your ship. At some speeds blue shifting converts mere radio wave photons into gamma rays hitting you all the time. Up to the point of probably limiting the speed reachable by any ship, given the fact that even the weak CMB radiation would start heating up and melting the ship after certain fraction of c is reached. If the warp drive "focuses" the dirt and particles in the front of the ship, releasing them upon the field's deactivation, then that's maybe a solution to the problem of high energy impacts. And probably of dust up to certain grain size.