Author Topic: LIVE: NASA MAVEN - Mars Orbit Insertion - UPDATES - Sept. 21, 2014  (Read 44537 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

« Last Edit: 09/21/2014 03:46 pm by Chris Bergin »
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Offline seshagirib

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Any nasa tv link for mobile(android) devices?
astronaut on space ship earth

Online DaveS

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Any nasa tv link for mobile(android) devices?

The official NASA app for iOS/Android includes NASA TV. Just search for it their respective app stores.
"For Sardines, space is no problem!"
-1996 Astronaut class slogan

"We're rolling in the wrong direction but for the right reasons"
-USA engineer about the rollback of Discovery prior to the STS-114 Return To Flight mission

Offline seshagirib

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Any nasa tv link for mobile(android) devices?

The official NASA app for iOS/Android includes NASA TV. Just search for it their respective app stores.

No joy, incompatible device, I guess I am dated (gingerbread).
Oh well! I will get out of the bed and boot the old desktop afterall.
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Offline belegor

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Also, as a heads up:
NASA has included MAVEN MOI in their Eyes on the Solar System applet:
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/eyes/

Offline seshagirib

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When do they start?

Do not see anything MAVEN related on NASA live TV.

or AM I looking at the wrong stream?

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VB7_2JSSxA0
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Online DaveS

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MAVEN MOI coverage begains at 9:30 pm EDT, 0130 UTC Sept. 22. Actual TIG is at 9:50 pm EDT, 0150 UTC Sept. 22.
"For Sardines, space is no problem!"
-1996 Astronaut class slogan

"We're rolling in the wrong direction but for the right reasons"
-USA engineer about the rollback of Discovery prior to the STS-114 Return To Flight mission

Offline Chris Bergin

When do they start?

Do not see anything MAVEN related on NASA live TV.

or AM I looking at the wrong stream?

http://www.nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html#.VB7_2JSSxA0

All three channels showing:

"Live Coverage of MAVEN - Mars Orbit Insertion (MOI)"
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Offline Comga

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MAVEN MOI coverage begins at 9:30 pm EDT, 0130 UTC Sept. 22. Actual TIG is at 9:50 pm EDT, 0150 UTC Sept. 22.
Wolfram Alpha says that the time of flight for the signal from Mars to Earth is currently 12.36 minutes.
Published info says the MOI burn lasts for 34 minutes, so it finishes at 10:24 EDT, 8:24 MDT at the mission "home" at LASP, the Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Science at the University of Colorado, in Boulder, Colorado.
It doesn't say if these times, which correspond to the times above, are when the signal is received or when they are sent. 
The event at LASP is scheduled to end at 8:30 MDT, which wouldn't be enough time for the signal to arrive if it was sent at 8:24 MDT.  That suggests that the times are the equivalent signal arrival times.
Anyone here know for sure which it is?

edit:punctuation
« Last Edit: 09/21/2014 10:41 pm by Comga »
What kind of wastrels would dump a perfectly good booster in the ocean after just one use?

Offline dsmillman

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MOI burn starts at 9:50 PM EDT earth received time.

Offline Chris Bergin

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Offline Chris Bergin

Nice HD view of our planet, before we head off to the Red Planet.
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Offline deadshot462

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Hello, first post here but would like to share that the Planetary Society is having a live discussion of the event:
http://new.livestream.com/accounts/4466798/events/3312247

Offline Chris Bergin

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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Coverage starting soon.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Here we go boys and girls!
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Football reference. This is a long catch.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

"Football may have dominated TV schedules today"

Oh a nice reference to Manchester United losing 5-3 in front of 1.6 billion on TV.....oh she means NFL ;D
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Twitter links.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Talking about Mars atmosphere mission.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Curiosity in Gale Crater.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Gary works for Lockheed Martin.
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 01:35 am by Chris Bergin »
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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MAVEN encapsulation.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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MAVEN launch.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

The launch
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Interview with ?. About to slew MAVEN.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Everything is on the money.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

"Mars is tugging on Maven"......
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Velocity almost doubled in last few hours.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Signal taking 12.5 minutes from Mars to Earth.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

"Please let me get on with my job now" (he didn't say that, but that's what he was thinking!)
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Offline Chris Bergin

Han Solo reference - nooooo idea why..........this is very much aimed at getting passing observers to tweet about it.
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 01:42 am by Chris Bergin »
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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"Han Solo passing through hyperspace" ?!

The project manager above is David Mitchell.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Control center.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Tim Preiser. No issues are being worked.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

"Nominal is boring but a wonderful word". Nice!
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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MSA room?
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Control room.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Director telling the cameraman to get right in there.
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Offline robertross

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Slew has been completed

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Slew has been completed.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Slew complete.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

As expected, a lot of NASA twitter social stuff now.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Facebook and Twitter questions.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Expecting a 33 minute burn.
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Offline robertross

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3min 50 sec to burn

Online Steven Pietrobon

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35 minutes to capture.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Engineer calling MAVEN a she - thus I instantly like this guy. :)
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Talking about "pigs being committed". ?!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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33 minutes to capture. 2 minutes to engine start.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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1 minute to engine start! Laughter in background.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Big laugh from the control room.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Engine start!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline robertross

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burn should have started

Offline Chris Bergin

Burn has begun.
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Offline robertross

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Applause in Control room, so must be good news!

Offline Chris Bergin

Control room applause.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Doppler chart. Dotted line is now. Watching green dots from Goldstone.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Control room.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Doppler screen.
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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Please. Less talking heads and more Doppler charts!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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MAVEN encapsulation.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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MAVEN launch.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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T+7 minutes.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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The data is now out of view!
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Talking about comet flyby.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

The cool event of the comet near pass.
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Offline lcs

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Too bad they can't just let the scientists talk naturally rather than this rehearsed babble aimed at 10 year olds. 

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Lisa May. Presenter is Gary Napier from Lockheed Martin.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Broadcasting from Lockheed Martin.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Jeff Lerner

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Anyone spotted any jars of lucky peanuts ???...thought I saw an M&M bag...not,sure if that counts...😄

Online Steven Pietrobon

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"Blending management styles"
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

Seems to be going well!
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Online Steven Pietrobon

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T+13 minutes.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Trajectory design. Can't go in a straight line.
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 02:06 am by Steven Pietrobon »
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Scylla

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Anyone spotted any jars of lucky peanuts ???...thought I saw an M&M bag...not,sure if that counts...😄
The control center is at Locheed Martin, they may not follow the tradition. :-[
I reject your reality and substitute my own--Doctor Who

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Orbital insertion animation.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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T+16.5 minutes. Talking about George Jetson. ?!

Data rate is 40 bit/s.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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Everything is nominal as still in window. Errors will accumulate.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Online Steven Pietrobon

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T+20 minutes.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline Chris Bergin

250 gallons of fuel being used for this burn.
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Back to the presenter.
Akin's Laws of Spacecraft Design #1:  Engineering is done with numbers.  Analysis without numbers is only an opinion.

Offline sanman

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Maven uses clustered thrusters for propulsion , is it a standard for US Mars mission spacecrafts? Also, I feel MOI can be achieved even if few of them fail?
Nasadiya Sukta:
Srishti se pehle sat nahin thaa, asat bhi nahin | Antariksh bhi nahin, aakaash bhi nahin thaa | chhipaa thaa kyaa, kahaan, kisne dhakaa thaa | us pal to agam, atal jal bhi kahaan thaa ||

From: 1st verse of 129th Hymn of the 10th Book of Rig Veda

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Construction and testing.
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T+24:33 minutes. Model of MAVEN.
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T+26 minutes.
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Bruce Jakovsky.
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MAVEN team.
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David Mitchell.
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A few minutes from orbital insertion.
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Offline Chris Bergin

They really could use a floor manager for this! ;D
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Twitter questions.
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"Everything looks fantastic."
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Offline Chris Bergin

Apparently they are underperforming. So may run longer than 33 mins.
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"A little bit underperforming."
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MAVEN is in Mars orbit!!

Congrats!

Offline Chris Bergin

And that's the job done!
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Engine cutoff! They have orbital insertion!

Congratulations to NASA and Lockheed Martin for the successful insertion.
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"This must be very exciting"

"I'm ready to pop"

 lol

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High fives.
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Great job !!...congrats to the Maven Team.....looking forward to the science on this mission..

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Control room congratulations.
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Colleen Hartman from GSFC.
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Offline Chris Bergin

Right, I'm out of here. Thanks to all who got involved, especially Steven again! :)

Congrats MAVEN!

Chris Gebhardt's article:
http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/09/maven-arrives-mars-atmospheric-study-mission/
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 02:29 am by Chris Bergin »
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Control room congratulations.

Bottom right of the image, you can see the jar of peanuts open and being dumped into a waiting hand  :)

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Talking about Osiris-REX. Every planetary spacecraft has had a Goddard instrument.

Thanks Chris. Always a pleasure to be of help.
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 02:33 am by Steven Pietrobon »
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Congrats!  ;D

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You can clearly see the Doppler jump here at engine cutoff.
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Control room.
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John Grunsfield.
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"All the robotic missions are human missions." ?!
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Doppler plot.
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Video on future missions.
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 02:40 am by Steven Pietrobon »
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Instruments deploy in two weeks.
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"Pulse rates just starting to come down."
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 02:55 am by Steven Pietrobon »
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Press conference in about 1 hour. End of broadcast.
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From Facebook

United Launch Alliance

The Mars Atmosphere and Volatile EvolutioN Mission is in orbit around Mars! Congratulations to NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Laboratory for Atmospheric and Space Physics, Lockheed Martin and everyone involved in this mission. Looking forward to the great science from this mission! Proud to have launched the mission on ‪#‎AtlasV‬!
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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

Post-MOI press briefing now starting.
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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

NASA's MAVEN Mission ‏@MAVEN2Mars
#MAVEN project manager David Mitchell from @NASAGoddard: "You get one shot" with an event like orbit insertion. #JourneyToMars Nailed it!

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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

The MOI burn lasted 34 min 26 sec, 11 seconds longer than planned. The burn "nailed it" putting MAVEN in a 35 hr period orbit. Will move to the planned 4.5 hour orbit with 5 more burns (1 of which using the main engine).
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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

260 gallon of fuel used in the MOI burn. HGA Antenna slewing and start of engine burn were on time. Pyrotechnic valves that needed to be fired were done flawlessly.
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Offline Galactic Penguin SST

MAVEN should be starting its science mission in early November after reaching the final orbit, instrument booms deploying and calibration of the science instruments.
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"All the robotic missions are human missions." ?!

From an earlier (and separate) mission, it was noted that this was due to human involvement in the mission at various stages (not fully autonomous).

I'm sure that's something they will improve on over the years

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"All the robotic missions are human missions." ?!

From an earlier (and separate) mission, it was noted that this was due to human involvement in the mission at various stages (not fully autonomous).

I'm sure that's something they will improve on over the years

I'm sure that the original comment meant that humans build the robots, operate them, and analyze their data, and therefore are human missions. Robots are extensions of our selves.

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You can clearly see the Doppler jump here at engine cutoff.

Wait a second. Doppler shift is dependent only on relative velocity.

There's a step change steep change in ACCELERATION at engine cut-off, but NOT velocity.

So why would there be a discontinuity steep jump in the frequency shift? If v_MAVEN(t) = v1 at t = (lim h -> 0+) T_cutoff - h; and v_MAVEN = v2 at t = T_cutoff; and v_MAVEN = v3 at t = (lim h -> 0+) T_cutoff + h; then v1, v2, and v3 will not differ by much... and there shouldn't be a jump?

Here's another picture (not very clear unfortunately) showing no jump. (EDIT: My bad.. it's not a picture taken after cut-off.. burn is still in progress at that time. But my doubt still persists) (Larger version)

The doppler plots they're using need more explanation (to me atleast). Here's how I understand it so far. First of all, they're talking about incremental doppler shift as a result of the burn. MAVEN's carrier signal would've been Doppler shifted down anyway, (The Earth-Mars, and Earth-MAVEN separation was, and is increasing which means that MAVEN's relative velocity with respect to the Earth was such that source and observer were moving away from each other). The burn would result in a further slowing down of MAVEN with respect to the Earth, and therefore an increase in the magnitude of the downward Doppler shift.

There's some uncertainty in burn performance which results in a range for the Doppler shift. But absolute doppler shift (magnitude of downard shift in frequency) does increase regardless. (This is why both upper and lower bounds show a downward kink in the blurry picture I linked to above).

Now, if there's under-performance, MAVEN is slowed down lesser (smaller change in Earth relative velocity as a result of the under-performing burn), and therefore the incremental Doppler shift is lesser, and therefore it'll be above the nominal line on a trace of Doppler shift (Y axis) vs time (X axis) line. (This matches with what was said during coverage). If it over-performs, then it'll be under the nominal.

But I have no idea why there's a jump. Anyone?
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 02:01 pm by AJA »

Offline LouScheffer

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You can clearly see the Doppler jump here at engine cutoff.

Wait a second. Doppler shift is dependent only on relative velocity.

[...]
But I have no idea why there's a jump. Anyone?
I think this makes perfect sense.  They are plotting the residual, the difference from what they expect.  The engine is underperforming slightly, so there is a non-zero residual. Now they get the the end of the (expected) firing, still with a non-zero residual.  But the accelerometer on the craft knows the engines have been underperforming, so fires for 11 more seconds to compensate.  This drives the residual to 0 (since it's now the velocity that was expected after the burn).

So it's not a step function change in residual, it's a very rapid convergence to 0 residual as the spacecraft corrects during the additional 11 seconds it added on.

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I think this makes perfect sense.  They are plotting the residual, the difference from what they expect.  The engine is underperforming slightly, so there is a non-zero residual. Now they get the the end of the (expected) firing, still with a non-zero residual.  But the accelerometer on the craft knows the engines have been underperforming, so fires for 11 more seconds to compensate.  This drives the residual to 0 (since it's now the velocity that was expected after the burn).

So it's not a step function change in residual, it's a very rapid convergence to 0 residual as the spacecraft corrects during the additional 11 seconds it added on.

But look at the slopes of the upper and lower bounds for the residuals (right before nominal cutoff) - corresponding to maximum tolerated underperformance and maximum tolerated over-performance of the engine.

The engine would've still under-performed during those 11 compensatory seconds. Hell.. even if it suddenly got a kick, and started over-performing (right at the edge of tolerable overperformance), it wouldn't compensate so fast as to yield a massively different slope.

In other words - if you connected the two discontinuous ends of the green trace with a straight line, the slope of that line you would be drawing in... is way steeper than even the predicted slope in the case of an over-performing engine (lower trace of the residual envelope).
« Last Edit: 09/22/2014 03:26 pm by AJA »

Offline LouScheffer

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I think this makes perfect sense.  They are plotting the residual, the difference from what they expect.  The engine is underperforming slightly, so there is a non-zero residual. Now they get the the end of the (expected) firing, still with a non-zero residual.  But the accelerometer on the craft knows the engines have been underperforming, so fires for 11 more seconds to compensate.  This drives the residual to 0 (since it's now the velocity that was expected after the burn).

So it's not a step function change in residual, it's a very rapid convergence to 0 residual as the spacecraft corrects during the additional 11 seconds it added on.

But look at the slopes of the upper and lower bounds for the residuals (right before nominal cutoff) - corresponding to maximum tolerated underperformance and maximum tolerated over-performance of the engine.

The engine would've still under-performed during those 11 compensatory seconds. Hell.. even if it suddenly got a kick, and started over-performing (right at the edge of tolerable overperformance), it wouldn't compensate so fast as to yield a massively different slope.

In other words - if you connected the two discontinuous ends of the green trace with a straight line, the slope of that line you would be drawing in... is way steeper than even the predicted slope in the case of an over-performing engine (lower trace of the residual envelope).
You would expect the slope to be about 200 times steeper during the extra time.  During the predicted burn, the delta force (causing the residual) is about 1/200 of the thruster force (assuming 11 extra sec for 34 minutes).  The thruster is firing, the expected value is firing, but they are slightly different by about 1/200 of total thruster force.  But during the extra firing time, the delta is the full thruster force (well 99.5% anyway) since the expected value is 0, but the real value is the thruster firing.  So on the residual plot, the curve will dive towards 0 with 200 times the slope that it had previously.   This will look like a step function.   And compared to the upper and lower limit curves, presumably something like +-10% performance variation, then the post-cutoff residual reduction would to 10x the slope of these curves.

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It's complex this rocket science methinks!
Respect to Goddard and Nasa.

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Nice to see Maven is at Mars. Can somebody please tell me how many artificial satellites are now in orbit around Mars including all countries. Both operational and dead?

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There have been 12 spacecraft to enter orbit about Mars.

Currently active:
2001 Mars Odyssey (US)
Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (US)
MAVEN (US)
Mars Express (ESA).

Inactive/lost contact/mission ended:
Mariner 9 (US)
Viking 1 (US)
Viking 2 (US)
Mars Global Surveyor (US)
Mars 2 (USSR)
Mars 3 (USSR)
Mars 5 (USSR)
Phobos 2 (USSR)

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ScienceCasts: First Light for MAVEN

Published on Oct 8, 2014
Visit http://science.nasa.gov/ for more.

NASA's MAVEN spacecraft has reached Mars and it is beaming back "First Light" images of the Red Planet's upper atmosphere. The data could help researchers understand what transformed Mars from a hospitable planet billions of years ago into a desiccated wasteland today.

Tony De La Rosa, ...I'm no Feline Dealer!! I move mountains.  but I'm better known for "I think it's highly sexual." Japanese to English Translation.

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