We’re returning human spaceflight launches to America. Learn who will take crews to the #ISS. Watch NASA TV at 4pm ET
The press conference will also be on NASA TV according to the commercial crew program office:
Quote from: yg1968 on 09/16/2014 02:19 pmThe press conference will also be on NASA TV according to the commercial crew program office:But oddly no sign of it on their official app in the news & events section.
Just to be clear, this is 20:00 UCT, yes?
ending with what looked like a Soyuz launch--how ironic
$6.8Billion over the initial contract term
Lots of Orion stuff. Charlie can we stay focused on Commercial Crew please?
From twitter, here's the cost breakdown:Casey Dreier @CaseyDreier 4mNASA press release: Boeing gets $4.2B. SpaceX gets $2.6B.~Jon
More SLS news!
Quote from: jongoff on 09/16/2014 08:11 pmFrom twitter, here's the cost breakdown:Casey Dreier @CaseyDreier 4mNASA press release: Boeing gets $4.2B. SpaceX gets $2.6B.~JonWhere is that 'dislike' button? If that's not an award-and-a-half then I don't know what...
"...pretend to be Americans..."WTF? Blathering patriotism instead of what everyone came to hear, and the reasons why. Someone pull this guy off-stage.
This is a tremendously political announcement carefully designed to fit the needs of the political will funding all of it.
Quote from: jongoff on 09/16/2014 08:11 pmFrom twitter, here's the cost breakdown:Casey Dreier @CaseyDreier 4mNASA press release: Boeing gets $4.2B. SpaceX gets $2.6B.~JonAt least Boeing will be able to afford the bonuses for their roaming hoards of lobbyists that worked their magic over the last few weeks.I feel like resigning today. Money buys you money.
$4.2B at 6 flights of 4 is $175M per seat$2.6B at 6 flights of 4 is $108M per seat
$6.8 billion. Up to 48 seats. $141.7 million per person. That's what it cost to fly the space shuttle.
Each provider will make one crewed flight to ISS.Excellent! Taking both systems to a flight ready state will ensure that at least one will be successful.Quote from: kirghizstan on 09/16/2014 08:20 pm$4.2B at 6 flights of 4 is $175M per seat$2.6B at 6 flights of 4 is $108M per seatWhere do people get the 6 flight from? And if so only one of them will be crewed.
Someone needs to remind Gen Bolden that CST-100 achieving orbit depends on "The Russians"...
Quote from: PahTo on 09/16/2014 08:23 pmSomeone needs to remind Gen Bolden that CST-100 achieving orbit depends on "The Russians"...Nah, ULA is already working that. Getting CST-100 to orbit will soon depend on Blue Origin.
contracts are for certification and a max of 6 missions per contract
Selection Rationale will not be provided today. :-(
Basically, to get SpaceX to the station costs about two-thirds of getting Boeing to the station. Not bad..., but not as cheap as Elon had promised. Disappointing.
Quote from: woods170 on 09/16/2014 08:30 pmBasically, to get SpaceX to the station costs about two-thirds of getting Boeing to the station. Not bad..., but not as cheap as Elon had promised. Disappointing.As far as I know Elon talked about price per flight. Can you point to sources him claiming development would be cheaper?
V2 reveal. The amount named to get V2 flight ready was in the order of 400 million US$. Do the rest of the math yourself.
2017 only possible if Congress funds according to presidents request.
Quote from: woods170 on 09/16/2014 08:31 pm2017 only possible if Congress funds according to presidents request.Well, we know 2017 won't be happening then.
Anyone seen the NASA press release yet? (NASA e-mails can lag for me).
American Companies Selected to Return Astronaut Launches to American SoilToday, with the selection of Boeing and SpaceX to be the first American companies to launch our astronauts to the International Space Station, NASA has set the stage for what promises to be the most ambitious and exciting chapter in the history of human spaceflight. From day one, the Obama Administration has made it clear that the greatest nation on Earth should not be dependent on other nations to get into space. Thanks to the leadership of President Obama and the hard work of our NASA and industry teams, today we are one step closer to launching our astronauts from U.S. soil on American spacecraft and ending the nation’s sole reliance on Russia by 2017. Turning over low-Earth orbit transportation to private industry also will allow NASA to focus on an even more ambitious mission – sending humans to Mars.We have already fulfilled part of the President’s vision. For the past two years, two companies, SpaceX and Orbital Sciences, have been making regular cargo deliveries to the International Space Station. The contracts we are announcing today are designed to complete the NASA certification for human space transportation systems capable of carrying people into orbit. Once certification is complete, NASA plans to use these systems to ferry astronauts to the International Space Station and return them safely to Earth. Again, this will fulfill the commitment President Obama made to return human spaceflight launches to U.S. soil and end our sole reliance on the Russians.As a former space shuttle commander, I know that the goal of every mission is to do something different from the flights that have gone before. Alan Shepard earned the title first American in space, John Glenn the first American to orbit Earth. And with all due respect to the late Michael Jackson, Neil and Buzz were the first moonwalkers.Today, we don't know who is going to get to command the first mission to carry humans into low-Earth orbit on a spacecraft built by an American private company, but we know it will be a seminal moment in NASA history and a major achievement for our nation. We now know, however, who will build it.The Boeing Corporation (Boeing) and Space Exploration Technologies (SpaceX) have each presented to us designs that will allow us to fly crews to the International Space Station in just a few years. Respectively, the vehicles are Boeing’s CST-100 and SpaceX’s Dragon. The total potential contract value is $4.2 billion for Boeing and $2.6 billion for SpaceX. The spacecraft will launch from Kennedy Space Center – Cape Canaveral complex.Our specialist teams have watched the development of these new spacecraft during earlier development phases, and are confident they will meet the demands of these important missions. We also are confident they will be safe for NASA astronauts – to achieve NASA certification in 2017, they must meet the same rigorous safety standards we had for the Space Shuttle Program.It was not an easy choice, but it is the best choice for NASA and the nation. We received numerous proposals from companies throughout the aerospace industry. Highly qualified, American companies – united in their desire to return human spaceflight launches to U.S. soil – competed to serve this nation and end our reliance on Russia. I applaud them all for their innovations, their hard work and their patriotism. The partnership with Boeing and SpaceX promises to give more people in America and around the world the opportunity to experience the wonder and exhilaration of spaceflight – to realize the dream of leaving Earth for even a short time to float above our planet Earth in microgravity and to see the stars and the majestic tapestry of the Milky Way unobstructed by the artificial lights and dust of our atmosphere. Space travelers also will be able to imagine and realize new benefits that can be brought back to Earth.While Boeing and SpaceX handle the task of taking our astronauts to the space station, the scientists on Earth and astronauts on the orbiting ISS National Laboratory will continue the groundbreaking research that has been taking place there for almost 14 years now without interruption. They will be able to add to that portfolio with an expanded crew made possible by the arrival of these new spacecraft.As research takes place in Earth orbit and the companies refine these new space transportation systems, we at NASA will be working just as diligently readying our new heavy-lift rocket, the Space Launch System (SLS), and our multi-purpose crew vehicle, Orion, for missions in the next decade that will carry people far from our local space neighborhood.Just yesterday, off the coast of California, I witnessed the successful recovery test of the Orion engineering test article – the next generation spacecraft that is being readied for its December flight test and its eventual use for journeys to an asteroid and to Mars. With the help of the U.S. Navy, the Orion mockup was put through a full ocean recovery dress rehearsal. Following its first flight (EFT-1), Orion will splashdown in the Pacific Ocean – the first time in more than 40 years that it has been necessary to recover a human spacecraft from the ocean.Last week, at Kennedy Space Center, we rolled the Orion crew module for EFT-1 out of the Neil Armstrong O&C Building to the Hypergolic Processing Facility for fueling in preparation for its maiden test flight in December. Just two days later at NASA’s Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans, we cut the ribbon on the new 170 foot high Vertical Assembly Center, the state of the art tooling facility that will weld together the massive core stage of the SLS – the rocket that will launch Orion and our astronauts farther into space than any human has gone before. From Michoud, I traveled to the Stennis Space Center to view progress on the historic B-2 Test Stand that is being prepared to test the core stage of SLS and its configuration of four RS-25 engines. We will launch SLS and Orion from Kennedy Space Center. They will test the systems needed to get to Mars – with missions to an asteroid and areas beyond the moon such as Lagrange points, where space observatories will be operating within our reach in the 2020s as we conduct the first deep space mission with astronauts since the Apollo moon landings.We’ll conduct missions that will each set their own impressive roster of firsts. First crew to visit and take samples of an asteroid, first crew to fly beyond the orbit of the moon, perhaps the first crew to grow its own food in space -- all of which will set us up for humanity's next giant leap: the first crew to touch down and take steps on the surface of Mars. The partnership we are announcing today for development of our commercial crew vehicles would not be possible without the hard work of hundreds of individuals dedicated to America's spirit of exploration and innovation. I especially want to commend the President and Congress for providing support for this new way of doing business. By combining private sector ingenuity with a bipartisan national commitment, and the unmatched expertise of NASA, we are not only better able to stretch the boundaries of the possible, we are strengthening our economy and creating good jobs for our people. As President Obama has said, “We will not only extend humanity’s reach in space -- we will strengthen America’s leadership here on Earth.”Our destiny is set. Our course is laid out before us. And we are following it. We hope the American people will be inspired to join us on this next great, ambitious leg of humanity’s journey farther into our solar system than ever before.Charlie B.
claiming that the crew of 4 will double the amount of science that can be done?
will not comment on reasons for those selected and those not
Would someone please ask who owns the first stage after the tests flight completes.Also does the contract allow SpaceX to use a used rocket.
Quote from: tvillars on 09/16/2014 09:06 pmWould someone please ask who owns the first stage after the tests flight completes.Also does the contract allow SpaceX to use a used rocket.NASA is purchasing the service. They do not own the equipment. That includes rockets and capsules. (But not astros ).
...where to begin...how about, where is this money coming from? are they telling me that the FY15 PBR will fund this selection and contract adequately? really?...www.nasa.gov/budgetCCP fy13 actual 525.0fy 14 enact 696.0fy15 request 848.3fy16 notional 872.3fy17 notional 791.7fy18 notional 730.9fy19 notional 172.0
Most of the funding is for certification.
Still interested in how they explain paying one contract 60% more than the other for the same service.
Quote from: BeanEstimator on 09/16/2014 09:01 pm...where to begin...how about, where is this money coming from? are they telling me that the FY15 PBR will fund this selection and contract adequately? really?...www.nasa.gov/budgetCCP fy13 actual 525.0fy 14 enact 696.0fy15 request 848.3fy16 notional 872.3fy17 notional 791.7fy18 notional 730.9fy19 notional 172.0 It appears from the follow on conference that the figures are the max amounts if all six flights are taken up. So, the amounts up to 2017 should be somewhat less than that.
Do we have a discussion thread for this yet?
Quote from: Ludus on 09/16/2014 09:27 pmStill interested in how they explain paying one contract 60% more than the other for the same service.Because Boeing asked for more and SpaceX asked for less.
NASA Chooses American Companies to Transport U.S. Astronauts to International Space Station SelectionThe contracts include at least one crewed flight test per company with at least one NASA astronaut aboard to verify the fully integrated rocket and spacecraft system can launch, maneuver in orbit, and dock to the space station, as well as validate all its systems perform as expected. Once each company’s test program has been completed successfully and its system achieves NASA certification, each contractor will conduct at least two, and as many as six, crewed missions to the space station. These spacecraft also will serve as a lifeboat for astronauts aboard the station.
Quote from: AnalogMan on 09/16/2014 08:53 pmNASA Chooses American Companies to Transport U.S. Astronauts to International Space Station SelectionThe contracts include at least one crewed flight test per company with at least one NASA astronaut aboard to verify the fully integrated rocket and spacecraft system can launch, maneuver in orbit, and dock to the space station, as well as validate all its systems perform as expected. Once each company’s test program has been completed successfully and its system achieves NASA certification, each contractor will conduct at least two, and as many as six, crewed missions to the space station. These spacecraft also will serve as a lifeboat for astronauts aboard the station.I am reading it as at least one person on board, all NASA astronauts. Maybe I am wrong.Per the above, only one NASA astronaut is required on the first crewed demo flight. The others can be company employees.
Quote from: DanielW on 09/16/2014 08:27 pmSelection Rationale will not be provided today. :-( ...nor any other day. USA is learning from the UK...start in front then shoot both barrels into foot. Such an opportunity missed.
Which ought to result in Boeing being offered the opportunity to take half the contract at the SpaceX bid price or leave the entire 4.4 B contract to SpaceX saving 2.4B. It's not like 2.4B is peanuts relative to the NASA budget.
Guests back on.Sorry about that. Had to do it as the site was being hammered. No use to anyone if the site goes down under massive demand, so that ensures we stay up.
Quote from: Ludus on 09/16/2014 09:44 pmWhich ought to result in Boeing being offered the opportunity to take half the contract at the SpaceX bid price or leave the entire 4.4 B contract to SpaceX saving 2.4B. It's not like 2.4B is peanuts relative to the NASA budget.No, the requirement is for two suppliers and not just funding the most popular one.
Blimey. We're still getting hammered. Bad Gateway error for 10 seconds there. Servers kicked back in (thanks servers). But back to logged in only until I'm sure things have calmed down with the demand.One day I think we won't have guests on at all, as we just get busier every year.
It might be possible for SNC to continue its CCiCap partnership on an unfunded basis (similar to what Blue Origin has been doing under CCDev-2).
How does that $2.4B compare to the cost of loss of LEO access from failure of a basket containing all of NASA's eggs?
I think ESA and Germany are interested to help develop Dream Chaser space plane, hardware, software, etc.
Boeing: "The spacecraft will undergo a pad-abort test in 2016, an uncrewed flight in early 2017, leading up to the first crewed flight to the ISS in mid-2017."
Quote from: Razvan on 09/16/2014 11:40 pmI think ESA and Germany are interested to help develop Dream Chaser space plane, hardware, software, etc.Not without NASA
So a 2017 launch date makes sense for Boeing but what is SpaceX going to be doing for the next 3 years (both of their launch abort tests will take place within the year)? It seems like SpaceX is way out in front of Boeing so I'm wondering why the 2017 date is being used for both providers.Maybe NASA is protecting Boeing from looking bad?
Sirangelo was in CO, not FL. Does anyone know where Musk was today, and/or who was on hand in FL to answer questions for SpaceX?
Here is the audio teleconference with Commercial Crew Program Manager Kathy Lueders which followed the other one:http://www.gamefront.com/files/24480705/CCtCap+NASA+News+Audio+-Sept+16+2014+.zipP.S. I will post it to YouTube when I get a chance.
Quote from: yg1968 on 09/16/2014 09:29 pmQuote from: Ludus on 09/16/2014 09:27 pmStill interested in how they explain paying one contract 60% more than the other for the same service.Because Boeing asked for more and SpaceX asked for less.Which ought to result in Boeing being offered the opportunity to take half the contract at the SpaceX bid price or leave the entire 4.4 B contract to SpaceX saving 2.4B. It's not like 2.4B is peanuts relative to the NASA budget.
Here's my first article on all of this:http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/09/dream-chaser-misses-out-cctcap-dragon-cst-100-win/Was a bit more edgy in draft with more source notes, but decided to straight shoot it in the end as this is about the award. We'll be doing more articles on this over time.
Here is a summary of my notes:-Support of the potential non-NASA market is important for the commercial crew program -Five milestones were required for CCtCap; the other ones were up to the provider. -NASA hopes to get what the President requested for commercial crew in order to be able to fund CCtCap. -On ramp clause exist which could allow new entrants. This clause could allow more competition down the road. -Up to the provider to decide if they adopt a rental vs taxi model. Each provide can disclose which model they selected but NASA isn't going to do that at this time. -Price of each contract includes the six potential post-certification missions. -Congratulated SNC for their hard work. He said that it was a pleasure to work with them and NASA looks forward to continue working with them on CCiCap and we will see after that (he was likely referring to an unfunded agreement).