The comparative graphic should portray the trajectories more like thus:
Quote from: whitelancer64 on 12/23/2015 10:13 pmQuote from: Mr. Scott on 12/23/2015 09:51 pmThe comparative graphic should portray the trajectories more like thus:No, that's wrong. Even to an observer at the launch site, the Falcon 9 still goes higher than the New Shepard. The difference in the upward distance the Falcon 9 travels is greater than the curvature of the Earth at ~95 km downrange. That is just your opinion.
Quote from: Mr. Scott on 12/23/2015 09:51 pmThe comparative graphic should portray the trajectories more like thus:No, that's wrong. Even to an observer at the launch site, the Falcon 9 still goes higher than the New Shepard. The difference in the upward distance the Falcon 9 travels is greater than the curvature of the Earth at ~95 km downrange.
The resistance to humor is strong in this one.
until someone recovers a second stage, that part is totally irrelevant.
Quote from: llanitedave on 12/24/2015 01:34 amThe resistance to humor is strong in this one.The amazing peoplem in this thread is strong.Can we stop with the "rocket" measuring contest already? Each team is to be congratulated for accomplishing an amazing feat, but Blue takes the ring for first vertical, powered landing from space. The rest is just juvenile nitpicking, and until someone recovers a second stage, that part is totally irrelevant.
The "Karman line" is an arbitrary line that was pulled from obscurity and pushed into our collective consciousness by the good people of the marketing department of Virgin Galactic...
Orbital people are really embarrassed to even bring up the Karman line in conversation relating to space...
If you're going to give rings for arbitrary goals, you'll need a lot of them... The X-15 was the first to cross the 50 mile line with a reusable rocket (which re-flew)VG was the first private company to cross the 100 km line with a reusable rocket (which re-flew)SpaceX was the first private company to cross the 100 km line with a reusably-planned vertical rocket and slow down to below 100 km/hBO was the first private company to cross the 100 km line with a reusably-planned vertical rocket and soft landNobody yet crossed the 100 km line with a reusable vertical rocket that actually got reused.EDIT: I forgot: SpaceX was the first private company to cross the 200 km line with a reusably-planned vertical rocket and soft land...
Only one company is doing its stuff though with real, commercial, revenue generating orbital vehicles - and so while you're handing out the rings, us amazing people will continue to feel that the BO and SpaceX achievements are not even on the same scale...
Quote from: meekGee on 12/24/2015 02:09 amThe "Karman line" is an arbitrary line that was pulled from obscurity and pushed into our collective consciousness by the good people of the marketing department of Virgin Galactic...The Karman line is not arbitrary; it is based on physical principles. Nor is it obscure; it's used by the Fédération Aéronautique Internationale to define the boundary between aeronautics and astronautics for record setting purposes. Also by NASA for the purpose of giving out civilian astronaut wings. And SpaceShipOne won (in 2004) the Ansari X-Prize (established in 1996), which used the Karman line as its criteria; it wasn't dreamed up by Virgin's marketing department!QuoteOrbital people are really embarrassed to even bring up the Karman line in conversation relating to space...Weird thing to be embarrassed about! Sounds more like oneupmanship to me; reminds me of those yachtsmen who say you haven't really been out on the ocean on a yacht if you're still over the continental shelf!QuoteIf you're going to give rings for arbitrary goals, you'll need a lot of them... The X-15 was the first to cross the 50 mile line with a reusable rocket (which re-flew)VG was the first private company to cross the 100 km line with a reusable rocket (which re-flew)SpaceX was the first private company to cross the 100 km line with a reusably-planned vertical rocket and slow down to below 100 km/hBO was the first private company to cross the 100 km line with a reusably-planned vertical rocket and soft landNobody yet crossed the 100 km line with a reusable vertical rocket that actually got reused.EDIT: I forgot: SpaceX was the first private company to cross the 200 km line with a reusably-planned vertical rocket and soft land...The X-15 reached 100 km. But you forgot the Space Shuttle, which was a vertically launched rocket that reached and returned from orbit and soft-landed - and then did it again! I suppose the operative distinction here is 'under its own power'?The F9 1st stage is a greater engineering achievement than the Blue Origin booster; but the fact remains that the latter was the first to launch under its own power, get to space and return to a soft-landing. Though the F9 1st stage could certainly claim the altitude record for such a rocket!QuoteOnly one company is doing its stuff though with real, commercial, revenue generating orbital vehicles - and so while you're handing out the rings, us amazing people will continue to feel that the BO and SpaceX achievements are not even on the same scale...That's undoubtedly true. But in 'firsts' and other records, scale is not a relevant criteria. No-one says the Wright brothers weren't the first to achieve powered flight because it wasn't a commercial, revenue generating flight and it only carried one man for 120 ft.Elon would have been well advised to just congratulate Blue Origin; chuckle in chagrin at being technically pipped at the post for this particular milestone, and let the differences in scale and significance etc speak for themselves. Same goes for us SpaceX amazing people!
It would be a lot more convincing if it were, for example, 112.4, or 96.5 km.
Quote from: meekGee on 12/24/2015 04:33 amIt would be a lot more convincing if it were, for example, 112.4, or 96.5 km.Theodore von Kármán was like a god. Are you dissing my religion? ;-)Seriously, though: the STS entry interface was defined as 400,000 feet (121.92 kilometers) for essentially the same reason von Kármán chose 100 km. They're both nice round numbers near the value important for flight control. EI is higher because the Shuttle was coming down and they wanted to err on the safe side. Von Kármán was thinking about ascent, so the safe side to err on was in the other direction....