Author Topic: China to have new rockets  (Read 225733 times)

Offline Jirka Dlouhy

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #40 on: 03/12/2008 07:06 AM »
I think, that lunar manned orbital flight is very expensive. For this action one CZ-5 isnīt ready. For this case You need at min. 2-3 carrier rockets with this capability.

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #41 on: 03/17/2008 11:54 PM »
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2008-03/02/content_7702780.htm
There is some information didn't mentioned in this news. The project of small rocket which will be used for launching small payloads was also officially approved. It's not the light version of CZ-5. I guess it's the "KT" solid rocket.

Offline neviden

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #42 on: 03/18/2008 12:39 AM »
Quote
meiza - 12/3/2008  9:21 AM
I don't think circumlunar or Lunar orbital flight amounts to much... It's the surface that is the place for humans.
It matters if you do Lunar rendezvous with lander launched separately..

Offline meiza

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #43 on: 03/18/2008 01:58 PM »
Yes but that lander costs hugely and takes a very long time to develop, and the whole landing is a very error prone mission.

China is very far from achieving that.

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #44 on: 04/24/2008 06:51 PM »
Here is an article about China's new rocket in the CASC's offical website:
http://www.spacechina.com/cpyjs_yzhj_Details.shtml?recno=48133

The 50t LH2/LOX engine: first one in the picture
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019184154941.jpg

The 120t kerosene/liquid oxygen engine: second one in the picture
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019184154941.jpg

The 5meter module:
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019191334687.jpg

The 3.35meter module:
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019192129525.jpg

The 2.25meter module:
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019192326759.jpg

Six different types of rocket:
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019184758929.jpg

Basic type: structure D
Configuration: 5m core + 2x2.25m strap-ons + 2x3.35m strap-ons
GTO: 10t

Structure A
Configuration: 5m core + 2x2.25m strap-ons + 2x3.35m strap-ons
LEO: 18t

Structure B:
Configuration: 5m core + 4x3.35m strap-ons
LEO: 25t

Structure C:
Configuration: 5m core + 4x2.25m strap-ons  
LEO: 10t

Structure E:
Configuration: 5m core + 4x3.35m strap-ons
GTO: 14t

Structure F:
Configuration: 5m core + 4x2.25m strap-ons  
GTO: 6t

The design of CZ-5 rocket:
http://file.spacechina.com/file/12/200710/20071019185319460.jpg
The new rocket is a 2 staged with strap-ons liquid fueled rocket. The rocket has 60.5 meter long, 675t of liftoff weight, 835t of liftoff thrust, 5.2 meter of rocket fairing.  The basic type(structure D) can lift 10t to GTO(200*36000km, 190degree) orbit



Offline meiza

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #45 on: 04/25/2008 11:22 AM »
Good finds! What is the structure below the satellite ("something 2") in the cutaway?
The second stage seems to have a common bulkhead. Main and second stages have helium bottles inside the hydrogen tank.

This looks quite a bit like the Ariane.

The 120 t booster engine YF-100 is roughly in RD-191 class, or half of RD-180.
The 50 t YF-77 engine is in the RL-60 class, about half of Vulcain or J-2. But there are two of them. EDIT: Looks like a gas generator engine from the picture.
The Second stage YF-75D is also unknown in the internet.
So two new hydrogen engines and one new kerosene engine. That's a huge investment.

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #46 on: 04/25/2008 02:37 PM »
Quote
meiza - 25/4/2008  7:22 PM

Good finds! What is the structure below the satellite ("something 2") in the cutaway?
The second stage seems to have a common bulkhead. Main and second stages have helium bottles inside the hydrogen tank.

This looks quite a bit like the Ariane.

The 120 t booster engine YF-100 is roughly in RD-191 class, or half of RD-180.
The 50 t YF-77 engine is in the RL-60 class, about half of Vulcain or J-2. But there are two of them. EDIT: Looks like a gas generator engine from the picture.
The Second stage YF-75D is also unknown in the internet.
So two new hydrogen engines and one new kerosene engine. That's a huge investment.
It says "??2", means "satellite 2".
It seems that this basic type of GTO launcher will put up two sattllites in one shoot.
About YF-75D, it's an improved version of YF-75, which is used on the third stage of CZ-3A/B.

Offline meiza

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #47 on: 04/25/2008 03:11 PM »
Ah, thank you very much for the clarifications! I should have understood to notice it was satellite 2 from the similar text.

This really could try to be an "Ariane killer" on the international satellite launch market. A wakeup call at ESA, CNES and Arianespace is needed. And with the Russians too. USA has already dropped out.
If they haven't noted this already, that is. New launch center and transport via ship and all...

Of course, since this technology is so complex and expensive, everything will happen as if in slow motion during the following years.

There's some more info here:
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/launchvehicle/cz5.asp
and here
http://www.geocities.com/launchreport/cz5.html
And they mention 2014 for the first launch date. That is still very far off.

YF-100's ISP of 300/336 s SL/VAC hints at staged combustion...

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #48 on: 04/25/2008 03:21 PM »
Quote
meiza - 25/4/2008  11:11 PM

Ah, thank you very much for the clarifications! I should have understood to notice it was satellite 2 from the similar text.

This really could try to be an "Ariane killer" on the international satellite launch market. A wakeup call at ESA, CNES and Arianespace is needed. And with the Russians too. USA has already dropped out.
If they haven't noted this already, that is. New launch center and transport via ship and all...

Of course, since this technology is so complex and expensive, everything will happen as if in slow motion during the following years.

There's some more info here:
http://www.sinodefence.com/strategic/launchvehicle/cz5.asp
and here
http://www.geocities.com/launchreport/cz5.html
And they mention 2014 for the first launch date. That is still very far off.

YF-100's ISP of 300/336 s SL/VAC hints at staged combustion...
That could never happen. As I mentioned in another thread, any satellite which has American components is not allowed to be launched in China. That put most of satellite out of scope.
Only if China's satellite industry can provide satellites of decent quality to international market, China can pack up with launch service.
In recent year, China only get average one international order per year. It's about 2% of market. I think CZ-5 is mainly to meet the domestic market. China is about to launch 100 satellites in the "eleventh five years plan" period.

Offline summit

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #49 on: 05/06/2008 02:52 PM »
The new CZ5 chinese launcher is a family. For the first time in space industry, the goal is to have 4 cryogenis engines (YF-75 and th 100t, the 50t and the 50tV2) that will be build into 8 modules from 2,3m diameter to 5m diamter module. The family is also composed of 12 new launchers.

Offline khallow

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #50 on: 05/06/2008 09:00 PM »
Quote
summit - 6/5/2008  7:52 AM

The new CZ5 chinese launcher is a family. For the first time in space industry, the goal is to have 4 cryogenis engines (YF-75 and th 100t, the 50t and the 50tV2) that will be build into 8 modules from 2,3m diameter to 5m diamter module. The family is also composed of 12 new launchers.

Interesting, but it is premature to use the present tense.  Also, this doesn't sound that original. The high volume lines of the USSR and US both have numerous rocket bodies and a variety of rocket engines (usually evolving versions of the core engines and some sort of strap-ons).
Karl Hallowell

Offline summit

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #51 on: 05/07/2008 07:39 AM »
I do not think that modular US or russian launcher are so mature. There are some common part but not a complete dvelopment based on modular princip

Offline Damon Hill

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #52 on: 05/07/2008 07:51 AM »
I'd consider Delta 4 pretty modular, albeit not as flexible as LM5 or Angara promise to be.

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #53 on: 05/27/2008 08:46 AM »
http://www.space.cetin.net.cn/index.asp?modelname=new_space%2Fnews_nr&FractionNo=&titleno=XWEN0000&recno=48719
The new engine of CZ5 passed a 500 seconds test. Though which engine of CZ5 was not mentioned in the article, i guess it's the LO2/LH2 engine.

Offline Lsquirrel

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #54 on: 07/20/2008 01:51 PM »
The Second stage YF-75D is also unknown in the internet.
So two new hydrogen engines and one new kerosene engine. That's a huge investment.

YF-75D is a new engine derived from YF-75, it's a expander cycle engine.

Offline Lsquirrel

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #55 on: 07/20/2008 02:05 PM »
the arm looks quite like Atlas V

Offline hal

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #56 on: 09/19/2008 01:19 PM »
Youtube shows LM-5 animation:


Offline astrowiki

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #57 on: 09/20/2008 07:32 AM »
A tower like that won't work since the cryogenic boosters needs their arms for LOX replenishing.

the arm looks quite like Atlas V

Offline astrowiki

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #58 on: 09/20/2008 07:55 AM »
What is this model of YF?
« Last Edit: 09/20/2008 08:21 AM by astrowiki »

Offline astrowiki

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #59 on: 09/20/2008 08:37 AM »
An image of the CZ-5 model i found

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