Author Topic: China to have new rockets  (Read 228501 times)

Online Satori

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Offline Liss

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #1 on: 06/19/2007 08:06 PM »
Umm, this is obviously a reference to CZ-5 family of modular rockets, with the most heavy one capable of 25 metric tons to LEO. A good instrument for launching a rover or a SRM mission, both within the Chang'e program frame. Don't think it'd be useful for a manned Moon mission, with the exception of Zond-style moon flyby.
This message reflects my personal opinion based on open sources of information.

Offline publiusr

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #2 on: 07/02/2007 07:05 PM »
True enough. They are going to get bogged down re-inventing their whole line of rockets--if they decide to axe hypergols. I like modularity--but I think they've gone a bit far with that concept. I might have had India try to buy the RD-270 (perhaps the former Soviets would give India a price break) and buy that from India for an R-56 type LV.

http://www.astronautix.com/engines/rd270.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/r56.htm

A 40 ton to LEO capability with four engines might not be too much of a stretch for them provided they get RD-270 up and running.

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #3 on: 09/07/2007 02:02 PM »
Engine used on CZ-5 including YF-77 and YF-100:
http://www.costind.gov.cn/n435777/n896261/n896274/66368.html

Online Satori

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #4 on: 09/10/2007 12:20 PM »

Offline Moon King

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #5 on: 09/11/2007 03:45 AM »
Any estimates on when the new moon rocket will be ready for flight testing?
NASA- Returning to the moon (when politicians quit slashing our budget)

Offline Danderman

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #6 on: 09/14/2007 12:42 AM »
YF-100 looks an awful lot like the NK-33. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm .....

Offline Danderman

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #7 on: 09/14/2007 12:45 AM »

Quote
Liss - 19/6/2007  1:06 PM  Umm, this is obviously a reference to CZ-5 family of modular rockets, with the most heavy one capable of 25 metric tons to LEO. A good instrument for launching a rover or a SRM mission, both within the Chang'e program frame. Don't think it'd be useful for a manned Moon mission, with the exception of Zond-style moon flyby.

For your viewing pleasure, a model of the CZ-5 shown at the recent MAKS expo:

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/photogallery/gallery_128/128-4/images/P1050684.jpg

 


Offline mr.columbus

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #8 on: 09/14/2007 08:10 AM »
Quote
Danderman - 13/9/2007  8:45 PM

Quote
Liss - 19/6/2007  1:06 PM  Umm, this is obviously a reference to CZ-5 family of modular rockets, with the most heavy one capable of 25 metric tons to LEO. A good instrument for launching a rover or a SRM mission, both within the Chang'e program frame. Don't think it'd be useful for a manned Moon mission, with the exception of Zond-style moon flyby.

For your viewing pleasure, a model of the CZ-5 shown at the recent MAKS expo:

http://www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru/content/photogallery/gallery_128/128-4/images/P1050684.jpg

 


Thanks, interesting model - 4 booster stages. I wonder if they actually started the development process yet or if they still need to convince their political leaders that it make sense to spend the money on such a rocket (commercial market needs do not require it, if you can put 5 ton payloads on a smaller rocket to GTO - which they can do already).

Offline Danderman

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #9 on: 09/15/2007 01:13 AM »
It appears to be about a Zenit class LV, so commercial markets would probably use it, absent political factors.

Offline tnphysics

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #10 on: 09/18/2007 01:38 AM »
What about scaling up the system? Factor of 4 gives the Energia.

Offline CFE

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #11 on: 09/23/2007 07:18 PM »
I would argue that China NEEDS to invest in cryogenic fuels if it ever hopes to put taikonauts on the moon.  One of the reasons why the US beat the Soviets is because the US invested major $$$ in developing hydrogen-burning rockets and curing the combusstion instability on the massive F-1.  The Soviets were content to cluster lots of smaller kerosene-burning engines, and the resulting N-1 was hopelessly complex.

The CZ-5 family is the right course of action for China's lunar program.  The only question in my mind is what their development schedule looks like, and when they expect a first flight.
"Black Zones" never stopped NASA from flying the shuttle.

Offline hop

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #12 on: 09/28/2007 03:24 AM »
Quote
CFE - 23/9/2007  12:18 PM
The Soviets were content to cluster lots of smaller kerosene-burning engines, and the resulting N-1 was hopelessly complex.
That gets said a lot, but it's only part of the picture. The failure had as much to do with political programmatic issues as the actual design. Building such a large complex booster in a hurry AND skimping on testing was a recipe for disaster.

Offline edkyle99

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #13 on: 09/28/2007 03:34 PM »
Quote
Danderman - 14/9/2007  8:13 PM

It appears to be about a Zenit class LV, so commercial markets would probably use it, absent political factors.

It goes well beyond Zenit-class.  It is reported to have 25 tonne to LEO capability and 14 tonnes to GTO.  The most powerful CZ-5 version, shown in the image mentioned earlier, if built as originally planned, would be the world’s most capable launch vehicle in the post-shuttle era, able to boost more payload mass to orbit than any other launch vehicle.  Russia’s new Angara 5 would not match it in any category.  NASA’s Ares I would weigh more, and both Ares I and Ariane 5 ECA would produce more liftoff thrust, but neither would out-haul China’s new heavy lifter.

http://www.geocities.com/launchreport/cz5.html

 - Ed Kyle

Offline tnphysics

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #14 on: 09/28/2007 08:43 PM »
Delta IVH does after the RS-68 upgrade.

So does Falcon 9 Heavy.

Offline tnphysics

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #15 on: 09/28/2007 08:54 PM »
Why does the CZ-504 have 2.5 times the payload, despite less than twice the GLOW?

Could an upper stage increase the payload to LEO?

Offline Damon Hill

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #16 on: 09/28/2007 10:21 PM »
Presumably a bigger, better design with a cryo upper stage.  I imagine the Long March 5 series will have all-new engines with staged-combustion technology possibly based on the RD-191/RD-171 series, as well cryo technology purchased from Russia.

Offline hesidu

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #17 on: 09/29/2007 03:08 AM »
Quote
Damon Hill - 29/9/2007  6:21 AM

Presumably a bigger, better design with a cryo upper stage.  I imagine the Long March 5 series will have all-new engines with staged-combustion technology possibly based on the RD-191/RD-171 series, as well cryo technology purchased from Russia.
As long as i know, China's cryogenic engine was developed earlier than Russia and Japan. China's was third country which developed cryogenic engine after US and France.

Offline Damon Hill

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #18 on: 09/29/2007 09:33 AM »
Russia developed several cryogenic engines; only the RD-0120 for Energia actually ever saw flight.  The other engines were mostly developed for the failed N-1 lunar program, but some effort was put into a cryogenic upper stage for existing launch vehicles.  Presumably this stage never became operational because of higher costs (and conservative Russian managment?).

I assume China's existing cryo engine was an entirely indigenous design.

Offline hop

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Re: China to have new rockets
« Reply #19 on: 09/29/2007 10:17 AM »
The Russian RD-56M has also flown on GSLV, but not on a Russian vehicle. The original RD-56 traces its history back to the N1, but never flew. Despite having only flown the RD-0120, the Russians have developed quite a number of LH2 engines over the years.

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