Quote from: CTC on 07/22/2017 09:28 pmSince we know the use of existing factory and launch pad, how will SpaceX transport it between the two? Road, train or water still seem very difficult for 9m diameter booster. Airlift it similar to Energia/Buran booster?Airlift is likely out because the SpaceX factory is next to a general aviation airport whose only runway is just 4,956 ft in length, which is about half the length needed for an Antonov An-225 Mriya.I think instead we can look to the experience of the Shuttle Endeavour and it's External Tank (ET), where both of those traveled 16 miles inland on surface streets from either the Los Angeles International Airport (Shuttle) or the Marina del Rey harbor (the ET) to the California Science Center.SpaceX may have already surveyed possible routes to the LAX airport or the harbor in order to ensure that if they built a 9m diameter ITS at their Hawthorne facility that it wouldn't end up as a permanent exhibit there...
Since we know the use of existing factory and launch pad, how will SpaceX transport it between the two? Road, train or water still seem very difficult for 9m diameter booster. Airlift it similar to Energia/Buran booster?
The ET was a one time only and not something that would be regular
Quote from: guckyfan on 07/22/2017 10:42 pmQuote from: Jim on 07/22/2017 10:34 pmThe ET was a one time only and not something that would be regularVery true. ITS is not a fragile Shuttle ET. It is a rugged design for many reuses. They can drive it fast and during the night with minimal interrruption of traffic.Just stop. Making inane, non sensical comments like that discredit this fine forum.It has nothing to do with the construction of the object. It has to do with the objections of cities to the traffic shutdown. They can't drive faster because of the size.
Quote from: Jim on 07/22/2017 10:34 pmThe ET was a one time only and not something that would be regularVery true. ITS is not a fragile Shuttle ET. It is a rugged design for many reuses. They can drive it fast and during the night with minimal interrruption of traffic.
Quote from: Jim on 07/22/2017 10:52 pmQuote from: guckyfan on 07/22/2017 10:42 pmQuote from: Jim on 07/22/2017 10:34 pmThe ET was a one time only and not something that would be regularVery true. ITS is not a fragile Shuttle ET. It is a rugged design for many reuses. They can drive it fast and during the night with minimal interrruption of traffic.Just stop. Making inane, non sensical comments like that discredit this fine forum.It has nothing to do with the construction of the object. It has to do with the objections of cities to the traffic shutdown. They can't drive faster because of the size.It might be manageable to do it a few times, but not with the frequency of Falcon 9 by any stretch of the imagination. I guess the next question is, is the number of boosters needed by SpaceX reasonably small enough to build and transport them out of Hawthorne?
They'll probably make only like one per year from now until 2020. If it becomes a major constraint, they could batch them so they only move them every 3 months one time during the night with modifications to the route to reduce the disruption.But how many ITSes do they even need? They're supposed to be fully reusable. So, like 3 per launch site?
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 07/22/2017 10:32 pmQuote from: CTC on 07/22/2017 09:28 pmSince we know the use of existing factory and launch pad, how will SpaceX transport it between the two? Road, train or water still seem very difficult for 9m diameter booster. Airlift it similar to Energia/Buran booster?Airlift is likely out because the SpaceX factory is next to a general aviation airport whose only runway is just 4,956 ft in length, which is about half the length needed for an Antonov An-225 Mriya.I think instead we can look to the experience of the Shuttle Endeavour and it's External Tank (ET), where both of those traveled 16 miles inland on surface streets from either the Los Angeles International Airport (Shuttle) or the Marina del Rey harbor (the ET) to the California Science Center.SpaceX may have already surveyed possible routes to the LAX airport or the harbor in order to ensure that if they built a 9m diameter ITS at their Hawthorne facility that it wouldn't end up as a permanent exhibit there... This calls for Elon's boring machine to make an underground path to the port!
This ITS will be used for the Moon as well as Mars to better amortize the spacecraft manufacturing costs. While it may only be able to send 50 people to Mars for, Moon trips are only 3 days instead of 3 to 5 months, so ITS, even at 9m instead of 12m may be able to send 100 to 150 people to the Moon in one flight if the passenger layout is configured more like a passenger aircraft.
Quote from: Robotbeat on 07/22/2017 11:10 pmThey'll probably make only like one per year from now until 2020. If it becomes a major constraint, they could batch them so they only move them every 3 months one time during the night with modifications to the route to reduce the disruption.But how many ITSes do they even need? They're supposed to be fully reusable. So, like 3 per launch site?I note your production estimate until 2020. It raises the obvious question: If they start today - or have already started actually, as they have on the Raptor engine etc - when would you expect the first 9m ITSy to be ready for flight? By your above comment I assume in less than three years time?
Quote from: M.E.T. on 07/22/2017 11:13 pmQuote from: Robotbeat on 07/22/2017 11:10 pmThey'll probably make only like one per year from now until 2020. If it becomes a major constraint, they could batch them so they only move them every 3 months one time during the night with modifications to the route to reduce the disruption.But how many ITSes do they even need? They're supposed to be fully reusable. So, like 3 per launch site?I note your production estimate until 2020. It raises the obvious question: If they start today - or have already started actually, as they have on the Raptor engine etc - when would you expect the first 9m ITSy to be ready for flight? By your above comment I assume in less than three years time?I have no idea, but I suspect the first to leave the ground and reach space will be the upper stage/BFS prototype because that's the one that has the most questionable flight regime (and so needs more testing) and also simply the fact it'll need a lot fewer Raptors and is smaller, and so should be faster to make (minus the TPS).It takes a year to make a Falcon 9, so the earliest they could possibly make an ITS if they started now is middle of 2018. More likely much longer (2020?). But maybe they could do a simple prototype BFS useful for suborbital tests sometime next year.
At 100t to LEO it is little big for GTO market, really depends on launch price.
It might be manageable to do it a few times, but not with the frequency of Falcon 9 by any stretch of the imagination. I guess the next question is, is the number of boosters needed by SpaceX reasonably small enough to build and transport them out of Hawthorne?