Author Topic: Air Force reveals plan for up to 48 launches per year from Cape Canaveral  (Read 37603 times)

Offline Chris Bergin

Support NSF via L2 -- Help improve NSF -- Site Rules/Feedback/Updates
**Not a L2 member? Whitelist this forum in your adblocker to support the site and ensure full functionality.**

Offline Steve D

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 235
  • Liked: 127
  • Likes Given: 2
The comment that caught my attention the most was the addition of the AFTS would eliminate 96 people.

“So we came down 96 people that don’t have to be sitting on console.  And the cost to the customer is cut in half.  "

Why did it take 96 people to do the flight termination? What did all 96 of them do?
Steve

Offline Paul Smith

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 205
  • UK and Europe
  • Liked: 47
  • Likes Given: 164
Great article. Launch coverage here is going to be crazy if they get up to 48 launches!

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37439
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21448
  • Likes Given: 428
The comment that caught my attention the most was the addition of the AFTS would eliminate 96 people.

“So we came down 96 people that don’t have to be sitting on console.  And the cost to the customer is cut in half.  "

Why did it take 96 people to do the flight termination? What did all 96 of them do?
Steve

Comm, radar, transmitter, receiver, backup power generation, software, tracking cameras, console maintenance, etc  They would be located at the MOCC, JDMTA, Antigua, Cape command  antenna site, camera sites, etc

Offline M.E.T.

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2306
  • Liked: 2901
  • Likes Given: 505
Interesting. But is that really such an ambitious goal?

If SpaceX alone is aiming for 20 or so flights from the Cape this year, and upping that to 30+  the year thereafter (without Boca Chica being online yet), surely a 48 launch limit means that either SpaceX or some of the other launch providers will not be accommodated in any given year.

Offline Hauerg

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 901
  • Berndorf, Austria
  • Liked: 520
  • Likes Given: 2574
The comment that caught my attention the most was the addition of the AFTS would eliminate 96 people.

“So we came down 96 people that don’t have to be sitting on console.  And the cost to the customer is cut in half.  "

Why did it take 96 people to do the flight termination? What did all 96 of them do?
Steve

Comm, radar, transmitter, receiver, backup power generation, software, tracking cameras, console maintenance, etc  They would be located at the MOCC, JDMTA, Antigua, Cape command  antenna site, camera sites, etc

Wow!
Just shows how not any idea of reality I had.  :o

Offline mme

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1510
  • Santa Barbara, CA, USA, Earth, Solar System, Milky Way Galaxy, Virgo Supercluster
  • Liked: 2034
  • Likes Given: 5381
Looks like we could be in for some exciting times.
Quote
“When pad 40 is up and operating, [it will] give us the capability of launching a Falcon from both pad 39A and pad 40 on the same day,” stated the Brig. Gen.
Space is not Highlander.  There can, and will, be more than one.

Offline M.E.T.

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2306
  • Liked: 2901
  • Likes Given: 505
Looks like we could be in for some exciting times.
Quote
“When pad 40 is up and operating, [it will] give us the capability of launching a Falcon from both pad 39A and pad 40 on the same day,” stated the Brig. Gen.

This is kind of what I'm wondering about. If SpaceX gets the launch cadence down to two weeks turnaround time per pad, that means basically 4 launches a month from 39A and 40 combined. That's 48 launches just from SpaceX.

So I'm wondering if 48 is just an intermediate target, which can be increased as demand increases, or is it some kind of hard limit?

Offline blasphemer

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 186
  • Slovakia
  • Liked: 140
  • Likes Given: 1078
Awesome news! High launch rate is crucial for lower launch costs.

Offline Lee Jay

  • Elite Veteran
  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8565
  • Liked: 3603
  • Likes Given: 327
Comm, radar, transmitter, receiver, backup power generation, software, tracking cameras, console maintenance, etc  They would be located at the MOCC, JDMTA, Antigua, Cape command  antenna site, camera sites, etc

How would AFTS eliminate tracking cameras?  I thought those were diagnostic.

Offline ChrisGebhardt

  • Assistant Managing Editor
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7842
  • ad astra scientia
  • ~1 AU
  • Liked: 7877
  • Likes Given: 853
Comm, radar, transmitter, receiver, backup power generation, software, tracking cameras, console maintenance, etc  They would be located at the MOCC, JDMTA, Antigua, Cape command  antenna site, camera sites, etc

How would AFTS eliminate tracking cameras?  I thought those were diagnostic.

Unless I'm mistaken, tracking cameras for diagnostic was really just a Shuttle thing.  They're not needed in that way for Atlas V, Delta IV, and Falcon 9.
« Last Edit: 03/20/2017 05:50 pm by ChrisGebhardt »

Offline Kansan52

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1487
  • Hutchinson, KS
  • Liked: 570
  • Likes Given: 539
Congratulations to the Air Force team!

Offline Barrie

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Planets are a waste of space
  • Liked: 242
  • Likes Given: 3815
Looks like we could be in for some exciting times.
Quote
“When pad 40 is up and operating, [it will] give us the capability of launching a Falcon from both pad 39A and pad 40 on the same day,” stated the Brig. Gen.

This is kind of what I'm wondering about. If SpaceX gets the launch cadence down to two weeks turnaround time per pad, that means basically 4 launches a month from 39A and 40 combined. That's 48 launches just from SpaceX.

So I'm wondering if 48 is just an intermediate target, which can be increased as demand increases, or is it some kind of hard limit?

It's got me wondering if the launch rate could be increased further if there was more standardisation between launch vehicles.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37439
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21448
  • Likes Given: 428
How would AFTS eliminate tracking cameras?  I thought those were diagnostic.

Maybe not now, but originally radars couldn't see the vehicle until it was above the ground clutter.  Back in the day, there were observers looking through a wire screens to make sure the rocket didn't go outside of the limits.  It was later replaced with cameras with overlays on the monitor screen.


GPS Metric tracking probably eliminated this.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37439
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21448
  • Likes Given: 428

Unless I'm mistaken, tracking cameras for diagnostic was really just a Shuttle thing.  They're not needed in that way for Atlas V, Delta IV, and Falcon 9.

The others still have tracking for diagnostics, just not the level of shuttle.  Spacex even does some of its own.

Offline Jim

  • Night Gator
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 37439
  • Cape Canaveral Spaceport
  • Liked: 21448
  • Likes Given: 428

It's got me wondering if the launch rate could be increased further if there was more standardisation between launch vehicles.

What kind of standardization?

Offline whitelancer64

How would AFTS eliminate tracking cameras?  I thought those were diagnostic.

Maybe not now, but originally radars couldn't see the vehicle until it was above the ground clutter.  Back in the day, there were observers looking through a wire screens to make sure the rocket didn't go outside of the limits.  It was later replaced with cameras with overlays on the monitor screen.


GPS Metric tracking probably eliminated this.

My understanding is that there are some range assets that are physically moved between launch sites for launches, is that correct Jim? Would that be the aforementioned tracking cameras and similar equipment?
"One bit of advice: it is important to view knowledge as sort of a semantic tree -- make sure you understand the fundamental principles, ie the trunk and big branches, before you get into the leaves/details or there is nothing for them to hang on to." - Elon Musk
"There are lies, damned lies, and launch schedules." - Larry J

Offline Barrie

  • Full Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 474
  • Planets are a waste of space
  • Liked: 242
  • Likes Given: 3815

It's got me wondering if the launch rate could be increased further if there was more standardisation between launch vehicles.

What kind of standardization?

Er, I don't know!  I'm just thinking that if they could launch two F9s on the same day, then they could launch two of anything on the same day if all rockets were alike in whatever ways matter as far as reconfiguring the range goes.

Offline AncientU

  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6257
  • Liked: 4164
  • Likes Given: 6078
What will the collateral impact be on work in progress at the pads, for instance, if the launch cadence is this high?  Will work have to stop on 39B every time a launch or static fire happens on 39A or 41/40/37?  Going to be tough to avoid schedule impact if this is the case (and the weekly cadence is realized).

By the way, don't know if it was an oversight, but article never mentioned SLS.
"If we shared everything [we are working on] people would think we are insane!"
-- SpaceX friend of mlindner

Offline ChrisGebhardt

  • Assistant Managing Editor
  • Senior Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7842
  • ad astra scientia
  • ~1 AU
  • Liked: 7877
  • Likes Given: 853

It's got me wondering if the launch rate could be increased further if there was more standardisation between launch vehicles.

What kind of standardization?

Er, I don't know!  I'm just thinking that if they could launch two F9s on the same day, then they could launch two of anything on the same day if all rockets were alike in whatever ways matter as far as reconfiguring the range goes.


No.  The only way two Falcons can launch on the same day is because there are two pads (39A and 40).  If there weren't, the AFTS becomes a moot point to this.  It's the combination of AFTS AND two pads that make two launches in same day possible for Falcon 9.

Tags:
 

Advertisement NovaTech
Advertisement Northrop Grumman
Advertisement
Advertisement Margaritaville Beach Resort South Padre Island
Advertisement Brady Kenniston
Advertisement NextSpaceflight
Advertisement Nathan Barker Photography
1