Author Topic: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request  (Read 4434 times)

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« on: 03/16/2017 10:41 AM »
Quote
The Trump Administration's FY2018 budget blueprint proposes $19.1 billion for NASA, less than a one percent cut according to a copy of the document posted by the Washington Post.   It is good news considering the draconian cuts proposed for many other agencies.  President Obama's Asteroid Redirect Mission (ARM) would be cancelled and NASA's Office of Education would be eliminated under the proposal, but other NASA programs survived relatively unscathed.  The earth science program is cut, but not as deeply as many feared.

http://www.spacepolicyonline.com/news/trump-budget-request-kills-arm-supports-sls-orion-and-public-private-partnerships

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #1 on: 03/16/2017 10:54 AM »
Here's the text of the NASA section, copied from the Washington Post:

Quote
NATIONAL AERONAUTICS AND SPACE ADMINISTRATION

The National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) is responsible for increasing understanding of the universe and our place in it, advancing America's world-leading aerospace technology, inspiring the Nation, and opening the space frontier. The Budget increases cooperation with industry through the use of public-private partnerships, focuses the Nation's efforts on deep space exploration rather than Earth-centric research, and develops technologies that would help achieve US. space goals and benefit the economy.

The President's 2018 Budget requests $19.1 billion for NASA, a 0.8 percent decrease from the 2017 annualized CR level, with targeted increases consistent with the President's priorities.


The President's 2018 Budget:

Supports and expands public-private partnerships as the foundation of future U.S. civilian space efforts. The Budget creates new opportunities for collaboration with industry on space station operations, supports public-private partnerships for deep-space habitation and exploration systems, funds data buys from companies operating small satellite constellations, and supports work with industry to develop and commercialize new space technologies.

Paves the way for eventual over-land commercial supersonic flights and safer, more efficient air travel with a strong program of aeronautics research. The Budget provides $624 million for aeronautics research and development.

Reinvigorates robotic exploration of the Solar System by providing $1.9 billion for the Planetary Science program, including funding for a mission to repeatedly fly by Jupiter's icy ocean moon Europa and a Mars rover that would launch in 2020. To preserve the balance of science portfolio and maintain flexibility to conduct missions that were determined to be more important by the science community, the Budget provides no funding for a multi-billion-dollar mission to land on Europa. The Budget also supports initiatives that use smaller, less expensive satellites to advance science in a cost-effective manner.

Provides $3.7 billion for continued development of the Orion crew vehicle, Space Launch System, and associated ground system, to send American astronauts on deep-space missions. To accommodate increasing development costs, the Budget cancels the multi-billion-dollar Asteroid Redirect Mission. NASA will investigate approaches for reducing the costs of exploration missions to enable a more expansive exploration program.

Provides $1.8 billion for a focused, balanced Earth science portfolio that supports the priorities
of the science and applications communities, a savings of $102 million from the 2017 annualized
CR level. The Budget terminates four Earth science missions (PACE, OCO-3, DSCOVR Earth-Viewing instruments, and CLARREO Pathfinder) and reduces funding for Earth science research grants.

Eliminates the $115 million Of?ce of Education, resulting in a more focused education effort through 5 Science Mission Directorate. The Of?ce of Education has experienced significant challenges in implementing a NASA-wide education strategy and is performing functions that are duplicative of other parts of the agency.

Restructures a duplicative robotic satellite refueling demonstration mission to reduce its cost and better position it to support a nascent commercial satellite servicing industry, resulting in a savings of $88 million from the 2017 annualized CR level.

Strengthens cybersecurity capabilities, safeguarding critical systems and data.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 10:54 AM by FutureSpaceTourist »

Offline calapine

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #2 on: 03/16/2017 10:59 AM »
For posterity, the full Budget request as attachment (downloaded from the Office of Management and Budget website) and the screenshots of the NASA section.

-cala

Offline jgoldader

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #3 on: 03/16/2017 11:10 AM »
Would very much like to hear more details on the "initiatives that use smaller, less expensive satellites to advance science," and the refueling demo, if folks here are "in the know."  Thanks!
Recovering astronomer

Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #4 on: 03/16/2017 11:22 AM »
Here's Jeff Foust's write-up:

http://spacenews.com/white-house-budget-proposal-targets-arm-earth-science-missions-education/

Quote
Mick Mulvaney, director of the White House’s Office of Management and Budget, [...] [had] a briefing with reporters March 15 [...]

NASA, Mulvaney suggested at the briefing, was a priority for the Trump administration and thus spared the deeper cuts other agencies received. “Space exploration is part of his priorities,” he said of the president.

Offline Graham

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #5 on: 03/16/2017 11:43 AM »
If this budget makes it out of congress in one piece we could be looking at a very serious gap in earth observation satellite coverage through the early 2020s. Some of the cancellations are bizarre for the Trump Admin. OCO, sure. I don't agree, but it's in line with what I would expect. But PACE? CLAREO? They seem like pretty agreeable missions on both sides of the aisle, neither is particularly involved in with climate change study.

I know Trump doesn't think NASA should study the Earth (which of course ignores that it's in the charter), but then I would ask the Admin to identify who exactly should be doing this.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 12:00 PM by Graham »
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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #6 on: 03/16/2017 12:32 PM »
Commercial Spaceflight Federation likes what it sees:

Quote
CSF Statement on the Trump Administration’s FY18 Budget Request
by Tommy Sanford on March 15, 2017

“Last year, the Trump-Pence campaign outlined an inspirational vision for America’s space enterprise to explore and develop space as America’s 21st Century Frontier,” said Dr. Alan Stern, Chairman of the Commercial Spaceflight Federation (CSF’s) Board of Directors. “That vision called for expanding public-private partnerships and increasing reliance upon the commercial space industry to ensure America leads the way on the final frontier. President Trump’s FY18 budget request represents a good first step towards realizing that vision.”

“The commercial space industry is committed to achieving incredible things in space and launching a new era of American space innovation and leadership at lower costs, accelerated timelines, and best value for the taxpayer,” said Eric Stallmer, President of CSF.  “America’s greatest strengths include its ingenuity and innovation.  In an era of constrained budgets and fiscal realities, the commercial space industry stands ready to support the President’s agenda of achieving great things in space, leveraging commercial approaches and the rapid results that come with them.”

http://www.commercialspaceflight.org/2017/03/csf-commercial-capabilities-definition/

Online Chris Bergin

Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #7 on: 03/16/2017 12:46 PM »
March 16, 2017
RELEASE 17-026
NASA Acting Administrator Statement on Fiscal Year 2018 Budget Proposal

The following is a statement from NASA acting Administrator Robert Lightfoot on the Fiscal Year 2018 agency budget proposal:

“The President mentioned in his speech to both houses of Congress that, ‘American footprints on distant worlds are not too big a dream.’ NASA is already working toward that goal, and we look forward to exciting achievements that this budget will help us reach.

“NASA teams continue to do amazing work to develop and launch our missions and increase this nation’s technical capabilities across the board. America needs NASA more than ever, and the agency’s work every single day is vitally important.

“While more detailed budget information will be released in May, we have received a top line budget number for the agency as part of an overall government budget rollout of more than $19 billion. This is in line with our funding in recent years, and will enable us to effectively execute our core mission for the nation, even during these times of fiscal constraint.

“While the budget and appropriation process still has a long way to go, this budget enables us to continue our work with industry to enhance government capabilities, send humans deeper into space, continue our innovative aeronautics efforts and explore our universe.

“The budget supports our continued leadership in commercial space, which has demonstrated success through multiple cargo resupply missions to the International Space Station, and is on target to begin launches of astronauts from U.S. soil in the near future.

“The budget also bolsters our ongoing work to send humans deeper into space and the technologies that will require.

“As discussions about this budget proposal begin with Congress, we continue to operate under the funding provided by a Continuing Resolution that runs through April 28.

“Overall science funding is stable, although some missions in development will not go forward and others will see increases. We remain committed to studying our home planet and the universe, but are reshaping our focus within the resources available to us – a budget not far from where we have been in recent years, and which enables our wide ranging science work on many fronts.

“This budget also keeps aeronautics on stable footing allowing us to continue our forward movement in many areas, including the New Aviation Horizons initiative.

“While this budget no longer funds a formal Office of Education, NASA will continue to inspire the next generation through our missions and channel education efforts in a more focused way through the robust portfolio of our Science Mission Directorate. We will also continue to use every opportunity to support the next generation through engagement in our missions and the many ways that our work encourages the public to discover more.

“We remain committed to the next human missions to deep space, but we will not pursue the Asteroid Redirect Mission (ARM) with this budget. This doesn’t mean, however, that the hard work of the teams already working on ARM will be lost. We will continue the solar electric propulsion efforts benefitting from those developments for future in space transportation initiatives. I have had personal involvement with this team and their progress for the past few years, and am I extremely proud of their efforts to advance this mission.

“This is a positive budget overall for NASA. I want to reiterate that we are committed to NASA’s core mission of exploration – in all the ways we carry that out.

“As with any budget, we have greater aspirations than we have means, but this blueprint provides us with considerable resources to carry out our mission, and I know we will make this nation proud.”

For more information about NASA’s missions, programs and activities, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov

-end-

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #8 on: 03/16/2017 01:30 PM »
Trump is cutting Earth science by 5% but increasing planetary science by a larger amount:

Quote
The budget proposal provides $1.8 billion for Earth science programs, a cut of about five percent from what NASA received in 2016.

One area getting a budget increase is NASA’s planetary science program, which would receive $1.9 billion in the administration’s request, up from $1.63 billion in 2016.

That is exactly what I predicted would happen, a couple of weeks ago:

https://forum.nasaspaceflight.com/index.php?topic=42425.msg1649289#msg1649289
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 01:44 PM by yg1968 »

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #9 on: 03/16/2017 02:37 PM »
In case anyone wants to see how NASA's proposed budget decrease compares to the decreases and increases across other agencies (they have a nice chart):

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-trump-budget/
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #10 on: 03/16/2017 02:42 PM »
I told you the cuts would be less than the rumors, right?

Offline Star One

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NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #11 on: 03/16/2017 03:17 PM »
I know Trump doesn't think NASA should study the Earth (which of course ignores that it's in the charter),

How is this $1.8 billion Earth science budget proposal--which does not gut Earth science--consistent with "doesn't think NASA should study the Earth"?

There's still $1.8 billion for Earth science, which is nearly the same as planetary, and more than both astro and helio.

But cancelling something like DSCOVR is bizarre when it's only recently been launched and the projected spending on it was only $1.2 million.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 03:19 PM by Star One »

Offline RonM

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #12 on: 03/16/2017 03:26 PM »
Since NASA is only cut by about 1%, I'm confident that Congress will ignore the Administration's suggestions and the President won't mind. He'll be too busy trying to get the bigger cuts approved.

Offline Jim

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #13 on: 03/16/2017 03:28 PM »
I know Trump doesn't think NASA should study the Earth (which of course ignores that it's in the charter),

How is this $1.8 billion Earth science budget proposal--which does not gut Earth science--consistent with "doesn't think NASA should study the Earth"?

There's still $1.8 billion for Earth science, which is nearly the same as planetary, and more than both astro and helio.

But cancelling something like DSCOVR is bizarre when it's only recently been launched and the projected spending on it was only $1.2 million.

DSCOVR isn't cancelled.  Only its secondary objectives.  The primary mission is still funded.

Offline Star One

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NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #14 on: 03/16/2017 03:30 PM »
I know Trump doesn't think NASA should study the Earth (which of course ignores that it's in the charter),

How is this $1.8 billion Earth science budget proposal--which does not gut Earth science--consistent with "doesn't think NASA should study the Earth"?

There's still $1.8 billion for Earth science, which is nearly the same as planetary, and more than both astro and helio.

But cancelling something like DSCOVR is bizarre when it's only recently been launched and the projected spending on it was only $1.2 million.

DSCOVR isn't cancelled.  Only its secondary objectives.  The primary mission is still funded.

What's it's secondary objectives & that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 03:31 PM by Star One »

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #15 on: 03/16/2017 03:38 PM »
What's it's secondary objectives

Solar storm monitoring--i.e. space weather.

that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?

You do know who is in the White House, right?

Yep. But I hoped things like this would escape his notice.

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #16 on: 03/16/2017 03:46 PM »
Yep. But I hoped things like this would escape his notice.

Again: forest for the trees.

Or to belabor the point: despite dire predictions that Trump was going to wipe out NASA Earth science, or transfer it all to NOAA, he actually only proposed a 5% cut for NASA Earth science. That's it. 5%. The question that everybody should be asking right now is why was that cut so small?

Doesn't believe his own rhetoric?

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #17 on: 03/16/2017 04:04 PM »
Yep. But I hoped things like this would escape his notice.

Again: forest for the trees.

Or to belabor the point: despite dire predictions that Trump was going to wipe out NASA Earth science, or transfer it all to NOAA, he actually only proposed a 5% cut for NASA Earth science. That's it. 5%. The question that everybody should be asking right now is why was that cut so small?

Doesn't believe his own rhetoric?

I'm sure that is the case. However, I'd also note that NOAA gets cut. So why cut NOAA and not NASA Earth science? NOAA includes weather satellites, which are not politically unpopular. So I find this a bit puzzling. And that's why I think people should be asking the question of why such a small cut?

Playing up to the prejudices of his audience?

Offline Jim

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #18 on: 03/16/2017 04:06 PM »

What's it's secondary objectives & that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?

Earth viewing.  The primary mission is space weather monitoring and that is still funded.

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #19 on: 03/16/2017 04:08 PM »

What's it's secondary objectives & that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?

Earth viewing.  The primary mission is space weather monitoring and that is still funded.

Thanks for the info. Obviously knew about the space weather part of it but didn't realise that there was a dedicated secondary mission on it.

Offline blah

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #20 on: 03/16/2017 04:22 PM »

What's it's secondary objectives & that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?

Earth viewing.  The primary mission is space weather monitoring and that is still funded.

Thanks for the info. Obviously knew about the space weather part of it but didn't realise that there was a dedicated secondary mission on it.

I believe this secondary mission was Al Gore's contribution  ;)

https://www.algore.com/project/the-deep-space-climate-observatory

Offline Jim

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #21 on: 03/16/2017 04:23 PM »

What's it's secondary objectives & that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?

Earth viewing.  The primary mission is space weather monitoring and that is still funded.

Thanks for the info. Obviously knew about the space weather part of it but didn't realise that there was a dedicated secondary mission on it.

As Goresat, the two Earth viewing instruments (NISTAR and EPIC) were the primary mission and the three instruments grouped as PlasMag were secondary. The roles are reversed for DSCOVR.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 04:24 PM by Jim »

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #22 on: 03/16/2017 04:40 PM »
Yep. But I hoped things like this would escape his notice.

Again: forest for the trees.

Or to belabor the point: despite dire predictions that Trump was going to wipe out NASA Earth science, or transfer it all to NOAA, he actually only proposed a 5% cut for NASA Earth science. That's it. 5%. The question that everybody should be asking right now is why was that cut so small?

I already offered you an explanation in the other thread: Republicans aren't against gathering collecting Earth science data, they are against NASA being used as an advocate against climate change.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 04:40 PM by yg1968 »

Offline JH

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #23 on: 03/16/2017 05:39 PM »
By specifically removing the $1.2M for DSCOVR's earth viewing instruments, they are hoping to block access to full disk irradiance data (basically, data that shows that the planet is now taking in more energy than it is losing).

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #24 on: 03/16/2017 05:55 PM »
By specifically removing the $1.2M for DSCOVR's earth viewing instruments, they are hoping to block access to full disk irradiance data (basically, data that shows that the planet is now taking in more energy than it is losing).

Let's see if they can get this cut past the generals as by the sound of it they may face a degree of resistance on this.

Offline RonM

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #25 on: 03/16/2017 07:30 PM »
By specifically removing the $1.2M for DSCOVR's earth viewing instruments, they are hoping to block access to full disk irradiance data (basically, data that shows that the planet is now taking in more energy than it is losing).

Let's see if they can get this cut past the generals as by the sound of it they may face a degree of resistance on this.

Generals? Nope, only members of Congress matter in this discussion. While the USA has the largest military budget in the world by a wide margin, we're still a civilian government.

As I've written before, this Presidential budget for NASA doesn't matter. Congress will stay their course and the Administration won't interfere, especially since the two are almost in complete agreement.

Online Coastal Ron

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #26 on: 03/16/2017 07:39 PM »
I already offered you an explanation in the other thread: Republicans aren't against gathering collecting Earth science data, they are against NASA being used as an advocate against climate change.

NASA doesn't advocate, it only discovers and explains.

Those that advocate against the idea that humans are contributing to climate change don't want any data to be revealed, since others can use that data.  Remove the data, then you remove the ability to point out changes are happening...
If we don't continuously lower the cost to access space, how are we ever going to afford to expand humanity out into space?

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #27 on: 03/16/2017 08:12 PM »
By specifically removing the $1.2M for DSCOVR's earth viewing instruments, they are hoping to block access to full disk irradiance data (basically, data that shows that the planet is now taking in more energy than it is losing).

Let's see if they can get this cut past the generals as by the sound of it they may face a degree of resistance on this.

Generals? Nope, only members of Congress matter in this discussion. While the USA has the largest military budget in the world by a wide margin, we're still a civilian government.

As I've written before, this Presidential budget for NASA doesn't matter. Congress will stay their course and the Administration won't interfere, especially since the two are almost in complete agreement.

Well not in agreement on everything.

Quote
Jeff Foust‏ @jeff_foust

@ZachInFlight Europa Clipper is not being cut. What’s not being funded is a follow-on lander (and Rep. Culberson will likely rescue it.)

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeff_foust/status/842421466184400896

Offline incoming

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #28 on: 03/16/2017 08:22 PM »
By specifically removing the $1.2M for DSCOVR's earth viewing instruments, they are hoping to block access to full disk irradiance data (basically, data that shows that the planet is now taking in more energy than it is losing).

The DSCOVR thing is just plain weird.  The budget doesn't say anything about cancelling the mission (the spacecraft is already up there and functioning), just the Earth observing part. We have a spacecraft up there with a camera and some other instrumentation pointing at Earth, as well as taking some important space weather measurements.  And they just want to turn off the camera?  What sense does that make?  It'll save almost nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's almost like they really are afraid of what the camera will show.

Also - there's been a bit of confusion on CLAREO, but by my reading of the white house release it's just the pathfinder/tech demo on ISS that's being cancelled, not the actual mission.



Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #29 on: 03/16/2017 08:45 PM »
Yep. But I hoped things like this would escape his notice.

Again: forest for the trees.

Or to belabor the point: despite dire predictions that Trump was going to wipe out NASA Earth science, or transfer it all to NOAA, he actually only proposed a 5% cut for NASA Earth science. That's it. 5%. The question that everybody should be asking right now is why was that cut so small?

I already offered you an explanation in the other thread: Republicans aren't against gathering collecting Earth science data, they are against NASA being used as an advocate against climate change.

That doesn't explain gutting NOAA, which mostly doesn't do "advocacy against climate change." They do weather satellites.

From what I read, most of the NOAA cuts are also global warming related.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/proposed-budget-for-commerce-would-cut-funds-for-noaa/2017/03/15/6c93d864-09ad-11e7-93dc-00f9bdd74ed1_story.html
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 08:50 PM by yg1968 »

Offline Danderman

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #30 on: 03/16/2017 09:23 PM »

What's it's secondary objectives & that still doesn't answer why try cutting such a piffling amount, it looks silly or even petty?

Earth viewing.  The primary mission is space weather monitoring and that is still funded.

Apparently, the Earth isn't that important.

Offline JH

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #31 on: 03/16/2017 09:54 PM »
The DSCOVR thing is just plain weird.  The budget doesn't say anything about cancelling the mission (the spacecraft is already up there and functioning), just the Earth observing part. We have a spacecraft up there with a camera and some other instrumentation pointing at Earth, as well as taking some important space weather measurements.  And they just want to turn off the camera?  What sense does that make?  It'll save almost nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's almost like they really are afraid of what the camera will show.

The token monetary savings are a fig leaf. The goal is to hamper the accumulation of evidence of climate change.
« Last Edit: 03/16/2017 09:57 PM by JH »

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #32 on: 03/16/2017 11:06 PM »
If you wanted an explanation for the cuts to climate funding, here it is:

White House: Climate funding is ‘a waste of your money’
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/324358-white-house-says-climate-funding-is-a-waste-of-your-money

Offline yg1968

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #33 on: 03/17/2017 01:29 AM »
Yes, I saw that. I guess that there is no easy way to cut 17% of NOAA's budget. The budget has already been called DOA by some in Congress. So we'll see what happens.
« Last Edit: 03/17/2017 01:30 AM by yg1968 »

Offline Proponent

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #34 on: 03/17/2017 09:33 AM »
If you wanted an explanation for the cuts to climate funding, here it is:

White House: Climate funding is ‘a waste of your money’
http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/324358-white-house-says-climate-funding-is-a-waste-of-your-money

It sounds like Trump wants to cut out anything to do in any way with climate change (at least outside of DoD; his own Secretary of Defense has said that DoD needs to prepare for climate change).  That's pretty radical; not only does Trump seek to avoid gathering data, but he may not even want to fund efforts to cope with climate change.  That's a step beyond even his own EPA chief, who does not claim that climate change is not occurring, but only that it is largely a natural phenomenon.

We'll have to see how far other Republicans go along with this.
« Last Edit: 03/17/2017 10:02 AM by Proponent »

Offline Proponent

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #35 on: 03/17/2017 12:45 PM »
The DSCOVR thing is just plain weird.  The budget doesn't say anything about cancelling the mission (the spacecraft is already up there and functioning), just the Earth observing part. We have a spacecraft up there with a camera and some other instrumentation pointing at Earth, as well as taking some important space weather measurements.  And they just want to turn off the camera?  What sense does that make?  It'll save almost nothing in the grand scheme of things. It's almost like they really are afraid of what the camera will show.

The token monetary savings are a fig leaf. The goal is to hamper the accumulation of evidence of climate change.

Though Triana was a NASA project, canceled under Bush II, it was DoD that resurrected it as DSCOVR, was it not?  Didn't DoD have a use for DSCOVR's Earth-viewing instruments?

Offline Jim

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #36 on: 03/17/2017 01:59 PM »

Though Triana was a NASA project, canceled under Bush II, it was DoD that resurrected it as DSCOVR, was it not?  Didn't DoD have a use for DSCOVR's Earth-viewing instruments?

NOAA resurrected it and DOD has no need for earth viewing instruments.

Offline jongoff

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #37 on: 03/17/2017 02:25 PM »
Would very much like to hear more details on the "initiatives that use smaller, less expensive satellites to advance science," and the refueling demo, if folks here are "in the know."  Thanks!

The refueling demo is Goddard's Restore-L mission that was being developed to restore a LandSat Earth Observation spacecraft.

~Jon

Online cscott

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #38 on: 03/17/2017 04:19 PM »


This week's Space to Ground video is all about the cargo, internal and external, Dragon is bringing back:



Does anyone know if these "Space to Ground" videos are part of the "education" budget zeroed out in the budget request?

Offline Star One

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NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #39 on: 03/18/2017 09:55 AM »
Trump’s biggest budget cuts to NASA: ranked

Quote
But packed within NASA’s small budget decrease are some pretty sizable cuts. A few major upcoming missions are canceled, and NASA’s entire education program, which is responsible for outreach and grants, is eliminated. The budget request also proposes wasting technologies already in space.

Some of these cuts could have a positive impact on NASA, while others could deprive students and the science community of the space agency’s expertise. Here are the biggest cuts to NASA ranked from “This is good actually” to “What the hell are you doing?”

In regards to cutting the education budget.

Quote
“Aerospace is a growing sector that provides good quality jobs here in the US. We want to get students from all backgrounds trained in these fields,” says Larson. “STEM education is critical to our long-term competitiveness as a country, and it's interesting in a year where a movie like Hidden Figures was on the national stage that the administration would de-emphasize the role NASA plays in getting kids excited about space.”

http://www.theverge.com/2017/3/17/14947444/trump-budget-plan-cuts-nasa-asteroid-mission-europa
« Last Edit: 03/18/2017 10:13 AM by Star One »

Offline AncientU

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #40 on: 03/18/2017 11:04 AM »
...

In regards to cutting the education budget.

Quote
“Aerospace is a growing sector that provides good quality jobs here in the US. We want to get students from all backgrounds trained in these fields,” says Larson. “STEM education is critical to our long-term competitiveness as a country, and it's interesting in a year where a movie like Hidden Figures was on the national stage that the administration would de-emphasize the role NASA plays in getting kids excited about space.”


Results are important, not just intentions. 

How much more effective can NASA be at inspiring youth by either, 1. doing something inspirational, or 2. talking about doing something inspirational.

The administration is choosing to use NASA money for #1. 
(they could have chosen to cut NASA by 20%)
« Last Edit: 03/18/2017 11:08 AM by AncientU »
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Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #41 on: 03/18/2017 02:07 PM »
...

In regards to cutting the education budget.

Quote
“Aerospace is a growing sector that provides good quality jobs here in the US. We want to get students from all backgrounds trained in these fields,” says Larson. “STEM education is critical to our long-term competitiveness as a country, and it's interesting in a year where a movie like Hidden Figures was on the national stage that the administration would de-emphasize the role NASA plays in getting kids excited about space.”


Results are important, not just intentions. 

How much more effective can NASA be at inspiring youth by either, 1. doing something inspirational, or 2. talking about doing something inspirational.

The administration is choosing to use NASA money for #1. 
(they could have chosen to cut NASA by 20%)

That's an incredibly feeble defence of the cut as you know very well that NASA will not see any of that cut money. So that's not like they even have the fig leaf of saying the money was going to be invested in other elements of NASA. It's also going to mean that it's likely less people are going to go in the related STEM areas.

Offline AncientU

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #42 on: 03/18/2017 02:28 PM »
Their budget is only cut 0.8% in the proposal.
Actually more funding for projects(building stuff) if headcount reductions for the eliminated lines are realized.  If headcount remains unchanged as has happened repeatedly when programs ended, then you are right.

I'm not defending the cut, mostly saying that NASA has the means to inspire without this function.

Examples:  HST wasn't preceded by the uninspired 'education' outreach... it just launched, (got fixed,) and then published the images.  Presto!  Education, inspiration.  New Horizons cost 0.3% of NASA's budget over a 15 year timespan ($0.7B end-to-end) -- sent back pictures -- inspiration.

(If NASA wants to contribute to STEM in a more fundamental way, they could stop using American Standard units and push for a Nation-wide transition to metric.)
« Last Edit: 03/18/2017 02:47 PM by AncientU »
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Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #43 on: 03/18/2017 03:05 PM »
I think that if you're going to discuss the education office at NASA, it might help if you looked into what it actually does instead of writing in generalities like "inspiration" or "contribute to STEM."

Offline AncientU

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #44 on: 03/18/2017 03:46 PM »
I think that if you're going to discuss the education office at NASA, it might help if you looked into what it actually does instead of writing in generalities like "inspiration" or "contribute to STEM."

Every other activity has 'inspire' or STEM in it.
That's apparently what they think their job is.

Example:
Quote
NASA Invites You to Create James Webb Space Telescope-inspired Art

How?

    Browse through our images and videos and see what inspires you.
    Create art! (Note: this is not limited to art you can hang on a wall.)
    Share it with us on social media.

Why?

In November 2016, a small group of artists was selected to visit NASA’s Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Maryland, to see the James Webb Space Telescope in person, and to be inspired to create art. They have been busy ever since, producing amazing work that we are presenting for exhibit during Spring 2017 at the Goddard Visitor Center (date TBA).

Their offerings include painting, poetry, sculpting, textiles, woodworking, music, silk screening, 3-D design, jewelry, posters, tattooing and letterpress printing.

Though we were only able to physically accommodate a small number of artists, we were so impressed by the number of talented people who were interested in participating. We want to offer more artists a chance to participate virtually.

Talking about it instead of doing it... there is nothing 'inspirational' about a telescope that is sitting in a cleanroom in Maryland, ten years (and many billions of dollars) after it was supposed to be in orbit doing science.  The self-indulgence/hubris of this flavor of 'education' deserved to be defunded.

Launch JWST, prove that it works, send back pictures/data (on the most distant galaxies ever observed, or the composition of a habitable planet atmosphere, for instance)... inspiration.


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Offline Blackstar

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #45 on: 03/18/2017 06:20 PM »


Every other activity has 'inspire' or STEM in it.
That's apparently what they think their job is.

You're missing my point. They have specific projects and programs, like grants that people apply to and projects that send money to people to perform defined activities. Look that up and see SPECIFICALLY what they do. Otherwise, this discussion is like somebody sitting at the bar and saying "I hate tooth decay!" and somebody else yelling "I do too!" and a third person saying "I don't think tooth decay is all that bad..."

UPDATE: Because I was feeling less lazy than usual I went to the NASA Education Office website and called up an alphabetical list of their projects:

https://www.nasa.gov/offices/education/programs/descriptions/All_Alpha.html

Here are a few:

Aeronautics Academy
[Students Higher Education]
[Available: Nationally]
This U.S. college student opportunity offers intense training in aeronautics that includes research, leadership development, and broad exposure to the nation's aeronautics enterprise.


Airborne Research Experiences for Educators and Students
[Educators Grades 5-12 & Students Higher Education]
[Available Nationally]
NASA offers the perfect package of adventure and career development. Teachers earn graduate level credits while spending six weeks in California as part of a residential science research program that includes flying on a NASA aircraft.


Applied Physics Laboratory Internship Project
[Students Higher Education]
[Available: Nationally]
The NASA APL Internship project is a 10-week summer internship at the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory for students interested in civil and/or defense space projects.


Astro Camp
[Students Grades K-8]
[Available: Nationally]
Astro Camp is an exciting, week-long mission for children located in Bay St. Louis, MS. Each year, it has activities centered around a new space exploration theme.


C

Caltech Postdoctoral Scholars at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory
[Students Higher Education]
[Available: Nationally & Internationally]
Opportunities for research positions provide significant training and professional growth for future scientific and technological leaders.


Center for Astronomy Education
[Educators Higher Education]
[Available: Nationally]
The Center for Astronomy Education is a professional development project for instructors of the introductory astronomy course, with emphasis on community colleges.


Community College Aerospace Scholars
[Students Higher Education]
[Available: Texas]
Funded by the Texas legislature, CAS is an interactive online learning experience highlighted by a two-day experience at Johnson Space Center. Selected students are encouraged to study math, science, engineering and computer science by interacting with engineers at JSC.

Consortium for Undergraduate Research Experience
[Students Higher Education]
[Available: CA]
CURE is a year-round research internship project for underrepresented minority and women undergraduates in the Los Angeles area. CURE matches students with mentors at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and Caltech in a real research experience.
« Last Edit: 03/18/2017 09:05 PM by Blackstar »

Offline Star One

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Re: NASA FY 2018 Budget Request
« Reply #46 on: 03/20/2017 07:47 PM »
Quote
Jonathan Amos‏ @BBCAmos

Nasa EO chief Mike Freilich at #Banff #Canada suggests DSCOVR's Earth-facing data could simply be stored but not analysed under FY18 cut

https://mobile.twitter.com/BBCAmos/status/843889088507920385

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