"And just to be clear: nobody's claiming there are permanently shadowed regions up on the ridge, right?"Yes, there are permanent shadows on the ridge, not just down on the floor of Shackleton!
Eric Berger's write-up of Blue Moon, based on WP article and Jeff Bezos' comments at the AvWeek awards:https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/jeff-bezos-says-nasa-should-return-to-the-moon-and-hes-ready-to-help/
Quote from: FutureSpaceTourist on 03/03/2017 03:23 pmEric Berger's write-up of Blue Moon, based on WP article and Jeff Bezos' comments at the AvWeek awards:https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/03/jeff-bezos-says-nasa-should-return-to-the-moon-and-hes-ready-to-help/This makes it sound quite modest and tentative. It seems peculiar for someone currently building a rocket factory for reusable New Glenn which would be capable of cheaply launching these lunar deliveries to emphasize he needs the cooperation of ULA with Atlas or NASA's SLS which would cost many times as much.Perhaps this is a pitch toward a Competitive Commercial Moon program, where he wants to emphasize that ULA or SLS could in theory be part of the biz too?
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 03/03/2017 04:10 pmQuote from: Coastal Ron on 03/03/2017 02:45 amEssentially Bezos is offering to do for the Moon what Musk is offering to do for Mars - be the transportation company.Nope, couldn't be more wrong.He's solely focused on cargo to the moon, enabled by BO hydrolox props and automated precision landing.Musk is focused on people+cargo precision lander in a context allowing development on Mars/other.Differences without distinctions. Both are focused on solving the transportation side of the equations, not the "what we do when we're there" part. BO is working on moving people to space, so just because they didn't announce it as part of this effort (which hasn't been officially announced anyways) doesn't mean they wouldn't offer it later as their vehicle plans firm up.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 03/03/2017 02:45 amEssentially Bezos is offering to do for the Moon what Musk is offering to do for Mars - be the transportation company.Nope, couldn't be more wrong.He's solely focused on cargo to the moon, enabled by BO hydrolox props and automated precision landing.Musk is focused on people+cargo precision lander in a context allowing development on Mars/other.
Essentially Bezos is offering to do for the Moon what Musk is offering to do for Mars - be the transportation company.
QuoteYou're presuming much more than he says. There's specific reasons for what he says and doesn't say. Listen, don't project.We don't have anything official from Bezos on this, so I'm not listening to anything he says...
You're presuming much more than he says. There's specific reasons for what he says and doesn't say. Listen, don't project.
QuoteVery important, because you all want to fantasize than Musk/Bezos are same/like. Not!And again I'd say you are highlighting differences without distinctions - both Musk and Bezos are focused on lowering the cost to access (and travel through) space, which to me has been the initial barrier to expanding humanity out into space. Adding landers to their capabilities are natural extensions.
Very important, because you all want to fantasize than Musk/Bezos are same/like. Not!
QuoteAnd don't count on the current hoopla for much - its just a distraction at the moment. When the cost of doing something appears, suddenly things might shift. RIFs are permanent, and deconstruction of institutions too.Which does not mean that you don't value the moment, one does strike while the iron's hot.You're being contradictory here. Don't celebrate. OK to celebrate. I think you're experiencing a lot of emotions right now...
And don't count on the current hoopla for much - its just a distraction at the moment. When the cost of doing something appears, suddenly things might shift. RIFs are permanent, and deconstruction of institutions too.Which does not mean that you don't value the moment, one does strike while the iron's hot.
QuoteBut listen very very carefully to what they say. And timelines.I really don't care about timelines, I only care about progress. And I see Musk and Bezos making progress - ON THEIR OWN DIME!They have the motivation and the means, which no one else has right now, so I'm going to cheer them on.
But listen very very carefully to what they say. And timelines.
I'm trying to figure out how you do the lander with an Atlas V 551, I just don't see how it would have the capacity unless they are talking multiple launches.
Make's me think of Jan Woerner's "Moon village".Moon Village: A vision for global cooperation and Space 4.0
Bezos goes out of his way to talk about hydrolox architecture cargo reusable landers / infrastructure, with no ZBF in sight. We're looking at multibillion, multidecade. Not next year.
Quote from: Space Ghost 1962 on 03/04/2017 11:45 pmBezos goes out of his way to talk about hydrolox architecture cargo reusable landers / infrastructure, with no ZBF in sight. We're looking at multibillion, multidecade. Not next year.This. Except I think you mean ZBO (zero boil off). Or ... what's ZBF except a Cisco router thing?
A robotic lunar lander capable of delivering as much as 10,000 lb. of cargo to a permanent outpost on the rim of the Moon’s polar Shackleton Crater could make its first flight by July 2020, with a little help from NASA. Blue Origin owner Jeff Bezos said on Thursday that his company has been working on a cargo lander that would support a human base set up in a zone of almost full-time sunlight on the crater’s rim. The site is adjacent to the permanently shadowed cold sink inside ...
The surprising thing from this article was that Blue will being pursuing ISRU, they will be primary customer of lander. If they can sell a few to NASA for exploration missions even better.
Quote from: Coastal Ron on 03/03/2017 02:45 amEssentially Bezos is offering to do for the Moon what Musk is offering to do for Mars - be the transportation company.Nope, couldn't be more wrong.He's solely focussed on cargo to the moon, enabled by BO hydrolox props and automated precision landing.
Quote from: TrevorMonty on 03/06/2017 10:58 pmThe surprising thing from this article was that Blue will being pursuing ISRU, they will be primary customer of lander. If they can sell a few to NASA for exploration missions even better. Could be part of the collaboration with ULA. CisLunar 1000 is all about someone supplying water (or its cryogenic constituents) from the Moon.
You think so,that Blue is working in technology for make ISRU, or allies her with companies like Ispace, that have this objective in her plans...?