Author Topic: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.  (Read 1201 times)

Offline pb2000

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So the response from NASA seemed a bit cold to put it mildly, which got me to thinking, with Elon on one of Trumps councils, has he been whispering in the President's ear about how a bunch of 3/4 letter agencies have been standing in the way of (Elon's subsection of) America's greatness?

It's no secret that Elon hates bureaucracy, and SpaceX appeared ready to go for Iridium 1 in early December, but supposidly the FAA or other agency caused the delay. With new FAA, NASA and EPA administrators coming, is SpaceX finally going to have a chance to clear some of the manifest (and send Americans back to the moon) without muddling through all the usual red tape?
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT)

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #1 on: 03/01/2017 03:42 PM »
So the response from NASA seemed a bit cold to put it mildly, which got me to thinking, with Elon on one of Trumps councils, has he been whispering in the President's ear about how a bunch of 3/4 letter agencies have been standing in the way of (Elon's subsection of) America's greatness?

It's no secret that Elon hates bureaucracy, and SpaceX appeared ready to go for Iridium 1 in early December, but supposidly the FAA or other agency caused the delay. With new FAA, NASA and EPA administrators coming, is SpaceX finally going to have a chance to clear some of the manifest (and send Americans back to the moon) without muddling through all the usual red tape?


No
A. show the data that an agency caused the delay
b.  The "red tape" is for public safety
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 03:43 PM by Jim »

Offline pb2000

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #2 on: 03/01/2017 04:00 PM »
b.  The "red tape" is for public safety
SpaceX blew up a nearly fully fueled rocket on the pad and nobody was seriously injured. How much more safe can you get?

Whilst I think the EPA does a lot of important work, the infamous tweet about studying the effects of sonic booms on seal mating, suggests some complete nonsense coming out of that agency.
Launches attended: Worldview-4 (Atlas V 401), Iridium NEXT Flight 1 (Falcon 9 FT)

Online jpo234

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #3 on: 03/01/2017 04:03 PM »
b.  The "red tape" is for public safety
SpaceX blew up a nearly fully fueled rocket on the pad and nobody was seriously injured. How much more safe can you get?

So the "red tape" worked as advertised.

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #4 on: 03/01/2017 04:11 PM »

1.  SpaceX blew up a nearly fully fueled rocket on the pad and nobody was seriously injured. How much more safe can you get?

2. Whilst I think the EPA does a lot of important work, the infamous tweet about studying the effects of sonic booms on seal mating, suggests some complete nonsense coming out of that agency.

1. It wasn't flying when it blew up.  That is when the public is more at risk.  there is little risk to the public while on the ground.  If it were just two tanks being loaded and unloaded not the ground, then the FAA would not be involved.  Actually, the FAA is not involved with test firings and other propellant operations like at McGregor.  Those follow OSHA and other work related jurisdictions.

2. Wrong.  That is a legitimate issue for the Channel Islands off the California coast.  During the mating season, the females stay on land with the pups.  A sonic boom would scare the females and they would rush to the water.  The pups would be trampled and killed by the mass exodus.
« Last Edit: 03/01/2017 04:14 PM by Jim »

Offline DarkenedOne

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #5 on: 03/01/2017 05:37 PM »
As far as I know Elon has not run into too many problems with the FAA largely because the FAA is really only concerned with public safety when it comes to rocket launches.  It does not care if the rocket fails and the satellite is lost.  As far as I know it is not in the business of heavily regulating the design, construction, and operation of the rocket like it is for passenger aircraft.

As far as Elon and the EPA is concerned I cannot imagine that he would have many problems with the EPA as increased regulation on traditional power plants and gasoline vehicles will drive up costs in those industries and improve the competitiveness of SolarCity and Tesla as a result.

The real future dilemma is the regulation of human spaceflight.  Since no commercial human spaceflight existed it has not been an issue, but as commercial human spaceflight industry develops there has been a great deal of discussion regarding its regulation.  So far the FAA has been held back from regulating it.  ATM all commercial spaceflight systems have been essentially for use at your own risk.  In the future as the industry becomes more established the FAA might move in to regulate it.   In the future this development could pose problems for SpaceX as they have already proven that they are more accepting of risk than the rest of the industry.

Offline mme

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #6 on: 03/01/2017 05:48 PM »
The real problem is that when regulations work, people think you don't need them.

P.S. I'd bet a month's salary that Musk thinks the EPA is a net-positive agency and that their pending neutering is a Bad Thing (tm).
Mark

Offline Lee Jay

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #7 on: 03/01/2017 06:06 PM »
Whilst I think the EPA does a lot of important work, the infamous tweet about studying the effects of sonic booms on seal mating, suggests some complete nonsense coming out of that agency.

Why does the fact that you don't understand it make it "nonsense"?

Offline rsnellenberger

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #8 on: 03/01/2017 07:05 PM »
2. Wrong.  That is a legitimate issue for the Channel Islands off the California coast.  During the mating season, the females stay on land with the pups.  A sonic boom would scare the females and they would rush to the water.  The pups would be trampled and killed by the mass exodus.
Legitimate issue?  Maybe it is something for worriers to worry about, but actual observation & science says no...

From "Responses of Pinnipeds to Navy Missile Launches at San Nicolas Island, California", Aquatic Mammals 2011, 37(2), 139-150 (the last paragraph of the Results section):

"No evidence of injury or mortality was evident during or immediately succeeding the launches. However, on three occasions, harbor seal pups were observed to be knocked over by adult harbor seals as the adults and pups moved toward the water in response to the launch. Seal pups were momentarily startled but did not appear to be injured, and they continued to move toward the water."

It's a nicely detailed scientific paper from 2011 that documents observations of the response of sea lions, elephant seals, and harbor seals to 2001-2007 launches from one of the Channel Islands.  Based on the observations, elephant seals are the honey badgers of the pinniped community...

http://aquaticmammalsjournal.org/attachments/article/528/37_2_Holst.pdf

Offline Jim

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Re: SpaceX, NASA, FAA, EPA and the Trump administration.
« Reply #9 on: 03/01/2017 07:25 PM »
2. Wrong.  That is a legitimate issue for the Channel Islands off the California coast.  During the mating season, the females stay on land with the pups.  A sonic boom would scare the females and they would rush to the water.  The pups would be trampled and killed by the mass exodus.
Legitimate issue?  Maybe it is something for worriers to worry about, but actual observation & science says no...

From "Responses of Pinnipeds to Navy Missile Launches at San Nicolas Island, California", Aquatic Mammals 2011, 37(2), 139-150 (the last paragraph of the Results section):

"No evidence of injury or mortality was evident during or immediately succeeding the launches. However, on three occasions, harbor seal pups were observed to be knocked over by adult harbor seals as the adults and pups moved toward the water in response to the launch. Seal pups were momentarily startled but did not appear to be injured, and they continued to move toward the water."

It's a nicely detailed scientific paper from 2011 that documents observations of the response of sea lions, elephant seals, and harbor seals to 2001-2007 launches from one of the Channel Islands.  Based on the observations, elephant seals are the honey badgers of the pinniped community...

http://aquaticmammalsjournal.org/attachments/article/528/37_2_Holst.pdf

The issue is for the ones closer to VAFB and it was mostly for shuttle launches.

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